Drogo

Kyle and Noon. (I think he was the best American to ever be on the show, and he lived in a house full of cockroaches and old pizza boxes.)

Watch the tone in here. You can disagree, but disagree civilly. And don't make things personal.

SisterJon's reactions gave me the impression this wasn't the first time MomJon had been theatrical. TLC doesn't release a full episode list maybe because they think they have some kind of fucking Emmy contender here. Makes it a nightmare for creating the episode threads, because life. I'm sorry for your loss @Stacee. I like to think there are a lot of men who pitch in like that without demands, but I know many don't. I had a career that was ripe with men of a babymaking age, and I know there were all kinds. I mentioned in an earlier thread that my beloved was very proactive with her compliments (ex: "You swaddle her so much better than I do, can you show me how you do that?" "Look how happy he is when his Daddy feeds him") and bought our kids all these "I love Daddy" "Daddy's MVP/Princess" outfits that made me happy before I could get sad, because she is (quoting myself) a behavioral intervention mastermind. You moms are the rockstars, so a compliment from you on our parenting is like hearing Jimi Hendrix say we play a mean guitar. It could be that she can't take time off from work; can't afford the hotel and food and everything else she would need beyond just airfare... More likely she can't get a visa to travel to the U.S. in time. (You don't need a visa to go from U.S. to Mexico but you need one the other direction.) A better idea would be a stateside civil ceremony and then a destination wedding in Mexico, but these knuckleheads don't really think or care.

Olga herself says "Mom takes care of baby." The answerable answer of course being "I don't know, Steven!!" (the same answer given when her boyfriend arrived from the U.S. and asked when she thinks the baby's going to come out.) These two kids are champions of communication. Not a fan of beating a dead horse, and it's time for me to withdraw from the debate, so final thoughts: I am in no way Team Steven (or Team Olga) but I cut them both slack because neither one has any idea what to do/expect right now and neither had a stable childhood. I'll defend the perfectly normal feelings of insecurity/inadequacy Steven's having, however, he should be keeping them to himself or talking to a parent/friend/therapist. Instead he's dumping them on Olga who has her own issues right now, and there's a language barrier that makes her responses to him seem unfeeling and cold.. which exacerbates his feelings. Something I never thought I'd say: *These two could really use Pole's translator app.* Parenting is a wonderful thing to do with someone you know/love/respect. The day you have a baby is not a good day to start living in the same country as your co-parent. By the time the baby comes, you should both have your roles in the household, responsibilities that don't require a gold-star every time you do them. You should be aware of each other's lives/habits/needs so you can help each other maintain as much sameness and therefore saneness as possible after baby arrives. The feelings that most parents have are probably tenfold for these two since they don't even know each other, adding in one is in a country very different than their home surrounded by people they can't understand. I think either of them on their own would be a great parent- and I think with some patience (and outside intervention- a counselor, priest, friend) they can learn to communicate their feelings before they reach these levels of frustration with each other. I don't think Steven and Olga are in an abusive relationship- I think they're in a pressure cooker of new baby + living in a closet + language barrier + tension from summer fling + PPD + sleep deprivation + lack of nutrition (no one's going to convince me Steve-o's whipping up nutritious meals in that hovel) + sexual tension + homesickness + hormones and I'd be interested to see what they'd be like when this passes- because I do think there's some genuine affection there and these are two people who really truly want a happy family. Oh, and at least neither of them is Kalani.

Maybe the lease is in her name and Coltee's squatting.

What men say out loud and what they truly feel are generally different animals, particularly in generations like mine and your husband's where men were encouraged not to show any weakness/have any emotions. Looks like we may still as a society be footed in that mindset. The fact of the matter is when a baby is born, men tend to feel unnecessary. Not because they're insecure, but because... they're pretty much unnecessary. Mom has the milk, she has the soothing touch, she is the owner of the voice/smell/sounds associated with the studio apartment where baby has spent his/her entire life. Men can be helpful, but are in no way essential. So we fret, and (while we admire and appreciate her) we envy what Mom can do and we can't. We do the little we're able to, and we wonder if it's enough. Most women are kind enough to throw a bone to the poor guy and tell him he's doing a great job when he's changing a diaper/burping the baby/some other completely replaceable job. Most men also won't say anything about it (not directly, anyway) but Steven has. If Kalani had gone to Samoa after Asuelu had an appendectomy... and she was doing everything for him in a strange place with people she couldn't understand while he convalesced.. and he was cold and unwelcoming to her, telling her all the things she was doing wrong and none of the things she was doing right, and she expressed feeling unappreciated and begging for more acknowledgment- I wouldn't assume she was an abuser. I cut them both slack, because they're just kids who had a kid. 18-20 while legally an adult is not someone seasoned in life experience or interpersonal diplomacy. And while they both had no one growing up, Olga will always have someone from this day forward. If this doesn't pan out, Steven will return to the U.S. and still have no one.

They both do this. It's like nails on a chalkboard.

The interesting thing is, no one's really ever shown in a flattering light, necessarily.. the difference is the Steven/Olga snippets always show Olga only in reaction to Steven, so whatever she says is part of The Steven Problem anyway. With the other couples, there's been broadcasted evidence of each party's flaws. Kalani is mean... but Asuelu is untrustworthy and incapable Ashley is controlling... but Jay is SKINS and too aloof Eric is cheap... but Leida is too spoiled and demanding Jonathan is inconsiderate... but Fernanda is too jealous and emotional But in the Steve/Olga equation, they haven't given us a "too _____" for Olga, only Steven. I just find it hard to believe she hasn't had any less-than-shining moments they could have included for us. I agree that this will haunt him for a long time, if not forever- accurate depiction or no.

I would agree, if it wasn't so familiar. Rather, it reminds me of feelings I felt once (and I know other non-abuser/murderers have felt also when their children were born) but taken completely out of context of the full new-parent experience. Like someone took your worst moments during a stressful time, and made that into a blooper reel of your life to show the world "who you are." Not sure if that makes sense.

Something smells I don't believe for a second we're getting an accurate depiction of what Steven and Olga's days are like. TLC would have us believe she is breastfeeding the entire day while Steven runs errands and gets upset at her. We couldn't see any footage of them planning their park outing... only the frustration over the carseat? And we couldn't see them going to the pediatrician's office together about the baby's rash... only Steven's frustrating Lost In Translation experience with a pharmacist? I also don't believe there's any abuse or feelings of sexual ownership here - Steven was frustrated that they didn't sleep next to each other. Which yeah, I get that and I don't think I'm a deviant. Nobody wants to travel 5000 miles to be treated like an incapable nuisance. I think my boy Steven's doing his best and feeling unappreciated when he's really looking for some words of affirmation that he's a good dad, which he really wants to be. Olga's insistence on doing everything herself ("Mom takes care of baby") and her patronizing "Steven/Steven/Steven!"s are alienating him; he's already feeling alienated in a place where he can't communicate with most people, and insecure about his abilities to father a child as a fatherless child. And I'm not at all afraid he's going to harm her.

And 16 flowers that cost $400.

This is the Colt and Larissa and Debbie thread, for discussion of that ménage à trois and/or any spoilers related to them. The other couples have their own threads, and there's an episode topic you can use to discuss all of the couples and what happened in this episode. (I'm sure this is related to the live chat not unlocking as expected last night. Some posts have been relocated to the episode thread.)

I think he said he rented that so he could fit her whole family in one vehicle.

Steven is saying what 99% of all new fathers feel, except he's saying it out loud. I've yet to hear any "screaming."

Or was it the Captain? When he said he'd 'find the money' to double the floral budget, I thought for sure Tasha's getting a call to give him this month's rent after all.

Wedding websites are extremely commonplace now (I see them on every invitation as a place for directions, registry info, recommended hotels near the venue, photos of the couple for family that hasn't met the future spouse yet, etc.) and they typically don't result in advanced bigotry assault like this one.

Episode thread is open:

And if you're planning to eat again in the next few days. Let's put it this way: if you've never seen Santa Claus at the mall and thought "Wow, I wish that guy was in porn" then you should probably skip this one.

So much princess toast..

Here's the link for The Man and the Baby and the Man, though these episodes could all be accurately called The Nightmare:

Reminder: This topic is about CHARACTERS we hate. Not actors, and certainly not fans.

I thought she looked better before she was trying so hard.

I half expected her to walk out into the daylight and have half a face from some kind of flesh eating disease. Or just anything that resembled an ending.

Vomit. Vomit everywhere. I'm keeping this episode on my DVR in case someone I really dislike comes to my house and I want them to leave without me saying anything.