RedWolf

If this had happened on screen instead of what we got I would have been happy. Actually I would have laughed hysterically for an hour and then started writing fan fiction. As it is I mourned for two hours ranting and raving about how horrible JF is at writing and then started writing and reading fan fiction.

Thank you for this, I really needed a good laugh at the moment. That photo is really weird even if they are just trying to show how Talbot feels isolated or unable to fit in. They could have positioned him on Mary's left, even with the parasol IMO.

Maybe it's just my Brary goggles but I think Tom and Mary look good together, maybe not in a they are so gorgeous together, but in a they make a nice respectable couple. Also at this point, after so many scenes together, I just can't imagine them without the other.

So true. I chocked on my drink when I read that. LOL

IMO Tom is her Carey Grant even if his love is only platonic. And this is why I love Mary even if she is a nasty scheming jealous b**** And this is why I don't think that Mary's wedding was a 'happy ending'

I agree! I got the same feeling as well. I was ROFL at this comment. It really does look like that in the picture, you described it perfectly.

I agree that Downton is an ensemble. I think the problem is that JF started adding characters who don't really serve a purpose other than comic relief. (Spratt and Denker) And IMO if JF showed how Talbot was good and right for Mary instead of having everyone tell her (and the audience) how perfect he was and how in luurve they were and gave him more character development than "I love CARS and Mary" and/or actually stuck with what we saw in S5 CS (I saw that he was observant when he asked Mary all those questions about Sinderby's mistress and little boy and that he could keep up with her but then JF has him make that gold digger comment to Mary on the stairs which had me yelling at the screen "It's the CARS you daft [and IMO creepy] man) I could have swallowed their romance. Because even though I am a Brary shipper at the beginning of series 6 I was resigned to the fact that Talbot was endgame and so I was hoping that JF would get me invested into their romance or at least happy for them as he did with Rose/Atticus and as he has with Edith/Bertie. As it is I felt as if it was shoved down my throat and I can either keep it down or not. I also agree that JF should have just stuck to his guns instead of being so indecisive about who Mary should end up with in series 4 and 5 and then throwing shaving cream on half the fandom this series. Because IMO he really did. He threw it on the Evelyn fans with that 10 second clip, he threw it on the Thomas fans when he barely dealt with his suicide attempt, he threw it on the Mary fans who feel that she is better than that, he threw it on the Tom fans when he gave him no storyline outside of Mary, and he threw it on the Edith Fans since he hasn't given her a happy ending (Although she really did come out better than Mary in that episode.). I do have to say that the actors (especially AL, MD, and LC) really did shine this series with what they were given. Thank you for sharing your opinion Eolivet.

I would have loved to see this!

I know that we still have the CS but I want to know how you would have ended the show. Please post your ideas. I don't care if it is a crackfic idea (like Robert getting eaten by a T-Rex) or even if Mary still gets with Henry at the end because I know, from what I have seen, that you guys would actually make it believable.

I agree!

I would have loved to see that but that just goes to show how much potential JF just left there by the wayside.

But did Mary really ruin Marigold's future? All she did was tell Bertie (which in no way justifies any of Mary's actions but as I said in a previous post they were all taken over by aliens IMO in this episode, except for Bertie actually. I think he was the only one who didn't tell Mary to marry Talbot or express his opinion on the matter.) who I don't think is going to announce to the whole world that Marigold was born out of wedlock wether he marries Edith or not. Mary didn't tell Talbot about Pamuk and Gillingham because she is not really in love with him. She only married Talbot because Aliens brainwashed her and Tom told her too.

And here I was thinking that some of the blame would fall on the executive producers and editing crew. Actually IMO the actors were splendid with the dialogue they were given it was the storyline that was shaving cream.

I am wondering how they let those scenes between Mary and Talbot be filmed and edited that way? Are they all blinded by JF's "genius" or do they all just think it was romantic? I just realized Talbot has three things working against him being alive longer than a year. (not that I want him dead, just away from Mary) 1. Tom being his best man 2. CARS 3. Being married to Mary and all that entails.

One of my favorite Brary scenes this episode was when Tom and Mary come out of the shop. They went shopping. together. How much more like a couple can you get.

BiB - I actually got right. :) probably not that surprising.

No, Robert all our ships are not coming into port. They are sinking like the Titanic. My heart jumped when Tom said "Because I love you" and then that whole episode just went downhill from there. Violet how could you let me down? The only bits I liked were Mosley's scenes, when Master George visited Mr. Barrow with Mary, and when Mary went to Matthew's grave (Could totally use that scene in a Brary fic as she never says Talbots name). The sad thing is IMO Mary had more emotionally poignant scenes and chemistry with everyone but Talbot. Talbot's scenes with Mary were pretty creepy with and without sound. I felt for him last episode. I hate him this episode and not just because I ship Brary. He was creepy, demanding, and wouldn't take no for an answer. That whole proposal scene between Talbot and Mary was so cold, the only thing I felt was my Brary heart being ripped out and stomped on. Where was the romance? Where was the passion and heat? Talbot really does remind me of Richard Carlisle (Carlysle?) except Carlisle was able to control Mary to an extent and Talbot needed Tom (and the whole Crawley family) to help him get Mary down the aisle. They only went on four dates together over a period of 4-6 months. Do they even really know each other? I just hope that when PBS airs it they add scenes that make it a little more believable or I don't know how any of the ardent fans over there are going to swallow this rushed catastrophe. Tom and Mary's scenes looked like an old married couple (especially without sound), even when they were fighting. Julian Fellowes really is the worst writer in the whole universe. I can't believe he did that to his (favorite?) character. I thought I read somewhere that he knew since the beginning of series 5 that he would need another series to conclude all the storylines and this is what he comes up with? I have read better Fan-fiction than this. I want to eject him out the airlock but I don't have a space ship. He destroyed any character development Mary had over the past six series and gave Tom no Storyline outside of Mary. Then he has everyone who in previous episodes were going on about how Talbot and Mary don't go together, in this episode are now saying how perfect they are for each other. IMO that was not a happy ending no matter how you try to spin it. He didn't even dwell long enough on Barrow's suicide attempt. My head canon is that everyone was brainwashed by Aliens (Talbot being the Alien) Mary tried to resist the brainwashing, which is why she lashed out at everyone because her head was killing her with how much it hurt, but by the end of the episode she gave up. This was one of the worst finales I have ever seen in my whole life. I can't believe I thought JF was better than this. The only thing I am grateful to JF for is all the Tom and Mary scenes the lovely fan fiction writers can use to jump off from this series and leading me to you lovely posters. Other than that JF can go jump in a big pile of shaving cream for all I care. I bet I could write a better ending.

Nellie I agree! Talbot and Mary just don't fit together unless one of them gives up the thing they love. I have been trying to see what have TPTB been trying to tell us by looking at the dialogue, the cinematography, and the music. While doing this these are the questions that kept coming up in my head. Why keep Tom's return a secret if all he is going to do is play matchmaker? Why have him return so early (early enough that Mary hasn't even had time to reply to his last letter) if that is his only SL? Why have Tom return in the same episode that you reintroduce Bertie (Edith's Endgame)? Why does the camera focus in on Mary's face in Tom's return scene? Edith is standing right next to her yet Edith's face is cut out of the frame. Why does Mary constantly touch or try to touch Tom (if you notice her arm is constantly moving towards him when the camera is focused on her face) during that whole scene? Tom didn't need to be there in episode four to drive Mary to the train station (when Anna was miscarrying) they still have Stark as their driver, or was it because he was the only one who could convince her to have Mr. Mason on at Yew Tree Farm. Why start changing Tom and Mary's dynamic this series? Why have them call each other Brother and Sister this series when you could have done it last series before Tom left for America? Why have Tom so invested in Mary's love life this series? Why are Tom's lines so ambiguous when taken out of context? Why constantly show how comfortable and in sync Tom and Mary are if Talbot is the endgame? Why show how Mary takes off her mask with Tom and trusts him enough to show him the real her all the time? Why list Talbot in the main cast if his screen time is only equivalent (so far) to a recurring guest star? Why have him only come in the fourth episode? Why have the music that was used for Gillingham and Blake be played in the background of almost all his scenes with Mary? (I can't remember what played in the background of the break up scene) If he is endgame wouldn't you have composed original music to represent his relationship with Mary? Why is it that when there is a scene with Talbot you have multiple scenes with Tom? Why use Brary as a red herring if you already have cars as a hurdle? Why has Mary never invited Talbot to Downton? Every single time Talbot and Mary have planned to meet it's away from Downton. If Talbot is endgame none of it makes sense. If no one is endgame then most of it still doesn't make sense (like Tom's storyline). If Tom is endgame then to me it makes sense.

I still can't give up hope that Brary is endgame, but will not be too disappointed if it doesn't happen as it seems likely that Mary will end up with Talbot. I just want to say to everyone on this board that no matter what happens on Sunday, no matter who is right or wrong, that this is the nicest and best boards I have ever posted to and you all have brought up very good points.

I agree. Why would Julian Fellowes start breaking down the relationship between Tom and Mary, which it certainly looks like he's doing (especially if Tom is fighting with Mary in the agents office), if not to change their status quo and build their relationship back up in a different way. This is why I am 95% sure (5% of me is resigned to the fact that Talbot could still end up with Mary, which from a narrative stand point, and from what I think after seeing previews and tv guide articles, would destroy two of the most loved characters and one of the best relationships, because I think we all can agree that their friendship is beautiful whether we ship them or not.) that Brary is endgame. Tom's lines so far about Talbot and Love are either pretty ambiguous or can be turned around later and used for himself. The ground work is already laid out (there are multiple lines of dialogue and scenes that Braries have put forth as evidence throughout series 4 and 5 ) for JF to make it endgame and go ta da this is what I was working towards. We know AL was shown that marriages between in-laws was normal back then "we read a lot of stories of the fact that that did happen back then" from an interview on The Late Late show in Nov 2013. Why would they be shown that unless TPTB either wanted them to be able to answer questions regarding whether Tom and Mary are getting together, or wanted to plant the seeds of the possibility. We know that MD hinted the possibility of more than one suitor when they had a behind the scenes interview with the cast for this series. Who could suitor 2 be other than Tom, because at this point we can cross Evelyn off of the list. It may be crazy but I can't jump ship yet, I will go down with it and regret nothing. It may seem like we hit a giant iceberg but until the CS is over anything can happen. I think that we will find out what Mary really wants when Granny talks to her, because right now it looks like she can't even talk to her best friend Tom without him going on about Talbot, Love or both. I thought so as well concerning Miss. Edmunds. If she was meant for Tom why would they have her gawp at Henry? plus I don't think Tom goes for blondes ;) I hope so.

So Granny is my only hope for Tom to come back to himself. Even after all the spoilers and promo pics I still think that Brary is a go. Too much time has been invested into Tom and Mary together for it to come to nothing. We know Julian Fellowes can write a believable love story (Rose/Atticus, Edith/Bertie, Mary/Matthew, and Sybil/Tom) and yet he is just not doing it so far with Henry Talbot and Mary. If Talbot is endgame that does not equal happiness and resolution in my books. I would rather have Mary single and Tom (maybe) with the editor than Mary with Henry and Tom single. This is what I think or want to happen in episode 8 (this is not in any order and I will most likely be horribly wrong) The Family is enjoying time with the children when Henry Talbot comes in. (Mary does not look happy about whoever walked in, in those pics) He gets invited to dinner (because the Crawley's are good hosts) and after dinner Henry accuses Mary of breaking up with him because of his prospects (instead of cars) which gets construed by Mary as "grubby little gold digger" which has Henry looking confused because men are clueless as to how their comments sound. They don't get back together at this point. (if they ever do) Isobel and Lord Merton get married. Mary is a part of their wedding in some way. (as the Matron of honor, bridesmaid, whatever they called it back then.) I also predict Isobel has Robert or Tom give her away. Tom gets into a fight with Mary about Talbot and blurts out about Marigold. Mary then confronts Edith about Marigold and they have their big fight in which insults are thrown across the room, then Edith tells Mary that she is too stupid and stuck up to see that Tom is in love with her. ok that last bit is just a dream of this Brary shipper. Tom writes to Granny to help him with getting Mary and Talbot together, but instead of coming back to help him with his plan she comes back to whack some sense into his head. Because of this Granny realizes that the Family would fall apart without her so she needs to stay around a little longer. Edith and Bertie have a falling out over Marigold but they get back together in the end. Lady Shackleton and Henry come for Isobel and Lord Merton's reception. Henry makes a last ditch effort to get back with Mary and Mary is like no way jose.

Tom What are you doing? Did your dopple-ganger come back from America instead of the real you? From what the article says you really are acting like a desperate man on a sinking ship (pun intended). So far you are the only one who sees how perfect Talbot is for Mary (on the show and for a big part of the shippers on the fandom). You cheering even harder for Talbot is actually putting me off him even faster then if I shipped you with Mary. Why would Granny Violet help you get Mary with Talbot? A man who, until his friend died, I had no emotional connection with. All he talked about was cars and Mary. I hope Granny comes back from France to whack you over the head and tell you to man up and confess to Mary how you feel already. And if Granny doesn't whack you over the head I hope Mary does, because you are not acting like a friend or a brother who only wants the best for her. Maybe you should get into a fight with Mary, where after you both sulk and/or ignore each other, and then you will realize you can't live without her and get over yourself.

Tom and Mary were both in the Estate agents office in episode four. I also think that Isobel and Lord Merton will get together next episode.

My initial thoughts after watching the episode three times over: Way to go Granny Violet! Put Miss.Cruikshank in her place. I don't think Granny will die abroad, not after saying how an Englishman would never die as a guest in another persons house in series one, and we know how Granny hates to be wrong. Although the irony would be hilarious. I felt nothing other than friendliness between Tom and the editor. I actually thought the editor looked in awe of Henry Talbot. Tom was so cute during the race. the test storyline was boring, although I was very happy for Mosley Carson and Mrs.Hughes sitting on the couches and then being found by Thomas was hilarious. Carson cooking dinner almost without complaint was endearing. The only reason I found the B&B SL interesting is because of the paparazzo. Talbot was getting too pushy in my opinion showing up to Rosamund's (uninvited?) and saying how he wanted to be a part of the family. As far as we know they haven't seen each other for a month but that doesn't mean that Mary forgot that he told her he's falling in love with her. If she wanted to take the relationship to the next step she would invite you to Downton and introduce you to her son, but she hasn't yet so back off. Could see the crash coming a mile away and wasn't very surprised it was Rogers. Thought it was nice that Edith went with Mary, you can tell they love each other deep deep down in there. Hopefully when they air all the dirty laundry in their relationship next episode they both own up to their wrong doings. This has been the best acting I have seen from MG all series. IMO Mary likes Talbot as nothing more than a friend. I knew Mary was going to brake up with him as soon as I saw the look on her face after Tom insisted she talk to Talbot on the phone. The whole brake up scene gave me the vibe of when your going out with some one because their nice and you like them but then one day you realize that you would never work together, you don't want to hurt them but its inevitable as they have fallen in love with you, you may love them in a way but you are not in love with them. Tom, Tom, Tom. I thought Granny said you were the sensible one. Although you are probably blind where Mary is concerned. You are like a man clutching at straws with this whole Talbot thing, desperately trying to save whatever is left of your plan. Either you are vicariously courting Talbot through Mary or you are vicariously courting Mary through Talbot. You can't force someone to fall in love with someone else. Thing is I really do think you are in love with Mary and think that she likes Talbot more than she really does. You should have said that you would support her even if you think her decision is wrong and then comforted her more than just holding her hands. I mean you are her BFF and Brother right? Then there is no problem with you hugging her, or were we Braries right and there is more going on then you are telling us. And stop putting forth arguments for Talbot that can be turned around and used for you. This episode actually cemented my status on the HMS. Brary. You can call me crazy and laugh at me at the end of this series when Julian Fellowes IMO makes the worst writing decision and has a Mary/Henry endgame (because anything can happen at this point) but I really do believe that Brary is endgame. ETA: Notice how she only talked to Talbot after Tom insisted. And then how Tom said "you will be hurt again and so will I" like how does this conversation have anything to do with you Tom? I thought this was about Talbot and Mary, not Talbot, Mary, and you?

I sent you a PM.