Nampara

Demelza did explain to Ross that she was eager to attend in order to make up for the mortifying christening party and prove her gentility.

The BBC and PBS present TRENEGLOS, an epic tale of dining and decorum. John Treneglos returns from his midday nap to find his plans for the afternoon in ruins: his estate still not ready to be inherited, due to his father's uncommon persistence in remaining alive, and his favorite armchair promised by his wife, Ruth, to his cousin who is visiting for the day! Can Treneglos piece together his shattered life and find love in his daydreams of the alluring mistress of a neighboring estate?

PBS deleted Choake's retort. He basically warned Enys that he'd end up living under a hedge if he didn't cultivate patients who can pay.

That exchange was in episode 4, not episode 5. It's explained in the episode 4 thread, but basically the point was that Demelza was tricking gullible Jud and Prudie into accepting her as their mistress (i.e., someone who can now order them around) by giving them credit for her rise. The scene is clearer in the unedited U.K. version, because Jud and Prudie continue talking after Demelza leaves the room, and they reach exactly the conclusions that she was pushing them toward.

You mean you don't care for the portrayal of Iago Warleggan?

Having purchased the Poldark soundtrack album, I can now agree with NumberCruncher and recommend it wholeheartedly. It offers much beautifully crafted music. I was not previously familiar with composer Anne Dudley, but if I had to compare her to someone, it would be Howard Shore, composer of the monumental Lord of the Rings scores. Dudley too combines lush orchestral passages with heraldic solo instrumental motifs that add "ethnic" flavor and help create a sense of place. It's amazing how much television music has improved over the last generation or two. It used to be that for most programs, only the opening theme (sometimes a goofy but catchy jingle) seemed the product of significant musical labor. But now television composing, at least for "prestige" dramas, is treated as seriously as film composing. Two technical criticisms: First, I don't like the sequencing of the album. There are two main approaches to soundtrack sequencing: either have the tracks appear in the same order as in the movie or show, or mix them up with the apparent purpose of creating tension and relief. I much prefer the former method, which I believe shows more respect to the score as a whole, and also makes it easier for the listener to figure out what a particular track is about. Unfortunately, the Poldark soundtrack album uses the second approach. For example, the show's opening theme is track 6. Does that make sense to anyone? I also wish that the names of the selections were more precise about the action in the program to which they correspond. Some are readily identifiable, such as "The Blue Dress" and "Resurgam" (both of which are lovely), but something like "Daring to Hope" could apply to half the scenes in the series. It can very hard to pin down the locus of a two-minute musical cue within a 480-minute program just by listening! A good title should identify its scene plainly: such as "Uncle Charles' Funeral" rather than "A Somber Day," or "Demelza Comes to Christmas Dinner" rather than "Introductions" (these are hypothetical examples). (This can create spoiler problems, I admit. John Williams' score for Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace includes a track called "Qui Gon's Noble End." Because the soundtrack album was released before the movie, everyone who saw the track list learned that Liam Neeson's character bit the dust.) By the way, I addressed the problem of the "missing" music described in my first post by converting YouTube edits of "I D' Pluck A Fair Rose" and the fiddle piece to MP3s and adding them to the end of the soundtrack album in iTunes. This is not a perfect solution, because the pieces end a little before what I perceive as their conclusions (though I did get all of Demelza's actual song), but it's good enough.

Stray observation: I think that Margaret the Consoler rather resembles Elizabeth. They have similar hair color and similar facial features. This resemblance may be a reason that the main male characters enjoy Margaret's company, in addition to her more obvious charms. For Francis, she is the "dirty" Elizabeth who won't freeze him out and who is not hung up on Ross (or at least not completely hung up on Ross). For Ross, she is the Elizabeth who doesn't tease and then retreat. And for George, she is the Elizabeth he can actually buy.

I assume that means you think episodes 1-4 were more successful on the whole than episodes 5-8. I tend to agree, but in part because the first novel, Ross Poldark, is much more of a standalone work. It can function as a beautiful little self-contained romance, with a traditional happy ending, that happens to invert the standard Austenian structure for tales of this type. Instead of (1) True love, (2) Marriage, and (3) [unmentionable], we get (1) Sex, (2) Marriage, and (3) True love. Oddly, the inversion makes the outcome even more satisfying, because it was less certain. Can you imagine watching episodes 1-4 as a Poldark miniseries unto itself? I can. The second book, Demelza, tells a more complicated and less straightforward story. In movie terms, it's very much a "middle chapter." I don't think it makes a natural stopping point for the continuing Poldark saga if one moves beyond the first book, which means that episodes 5-8 will feel incomplete. I think these are the options for concluding the overall story: After book 1 (the Cinderella romance) After book 4 (the final resolution of the "triangle") After book 7 (the death of Elizabeth and conclusion of the 18th century) After book 12 (Poldark: The Next Generation) I understand that you have other objections to the storytelling as well, and I certainly don't believe that Poldark 2015 is above criticism. It has definite weaknesses, some of which are the result of conscious creative tradeoffs, and some of which are flaws in execution. But in my view, "good, but could be better" is a reason for celebration, not disappointment. The vast majority of our cultural outputs do not even meet that standard (see Sturgeon's law). The failure to deliver perfection is something I can overlook, as long as a project's strengths outweigh its weaknesses. For me, the strengths of Poldark 2015 surely do. I think we are applying the same test, but simply differ on the balance.

I don't agree with the "villain" characterization. To be sure, Keren is portrayed unsympathetically, as well as hazily, but there's no suggestion that she deserved to die or got what was coming to her. I firmly agree about the change to protect Ross's character, however. I suppose the thinking was that whatever the flaws of the 18th century British justice system, helping a straight-up wife killer evade the law just because he's your pal and employee won't look very noble. (NB: This change is a clear indicator of how the dark stuff in series 2 will be handled, I believe.)

What I hope more audience members will acknowledge over time is that this contrast is desirable. Why bother to create a new interpretation that merely seeks to replicate the style and tone of the first interpretation? The 1970s Poldark was, like much British drama of that day, stagey. It really was a lot like watching a play that had been videotaped, with occasional outdoor interludes. Of course there would be enormous streams of dialogue drenching the viewer. The 2015 program strives for a lavish, cinematic presentation, intended to be watched as much as listened to. And indeed, the 2015 result would be much more at home in a movie theater than the original program. The more I consider it, the more pleased I am that the new version sought a very distinct creative identity. The 1970s program and the books fortunately remain available as well, to provide a more fine-grained take on the story. I want to add that in my opinion, all romantic period dramas in the Poldark vein have been influenced by two great wellsprings from the 1990s: Last of the Mohicans (1992) and Pride and Prejudice (1995). After those two adaptations, I think the "drier" approach of previous decades came to seem intolerably old-fashioned.

It was pulled back and extremely neat.

Yes, that was indeed the general rule. See my post above in this thread for a discussion of how a rare exception might occur. Within the context of episode 4, one thing we have to remember is that all the dire predictions about Ross's coming ostracism, including the warning from Francis, were based on a "once a maid, always a maid" assumption. Everyone took it for granted that Demelza's humble origins always would remain grossly apparent from her comportment. No one expected the startling transformation that Demelza proved capable of making. For example, John Treneglos knew where Demelza came from (we can be sure his wife, Ruth, abused his ears with that information). But after John met Demelza, was there any chance that he would object to her presence at balls, social functions, or any table at which he happened to be sitting? None!

The original Poldark TV show had two series (what in the U.S. we would call "seasons"). The 1975 series included 16 episodes and covered the first four novels (thus, contrary to some criticism of the new show, the overall time allotted to the story was exactly the same). The 1977 series included 13 episodes and covered books five through seven. That's probably what you saw listed as "Series 2."

The TV timeline explicitly begins in 1783 (same as the books), because Ross is wounded in the year given as 1781 and returns to Cornwall "two years later." After that, it's not clear in the series exactly how much time passes until the events of episode 4, because we are not given Demelza's exact age when she arrives, nor do we know how exactly much she ages before she and Ross marry. Demelza seems to have been with Ross for about two years at most in episodes 1-3, but even that is not entirely certain. The first book ends at Christmas 1787, and we know that the television timeline cannot end any later than that date, because if anything, less time has passed on-screen. Also, we know that as of episode 4, the French Revolution has not yet occurred (because of some snippets of conversation at Trenwith). My impression is that the program is being deliberately fuzzy about the calendar and assuming most viewers really won't care. Maybe at some point in a future episode there will be a reference to a contemporaneous historical event that enables the viewers to learn the exact year in the story.

In the episode 4 thread, I've mentioned that the cuts to the episodes made by PBS have been annoying, and that for us Americans it's a good idea to buy the original, unedited versions. But in episode 1, PBS made one great edit: Ross has about a three-minute fight with Tom Carne over Demelza. After they begin their contest, Prudie scurries over to Trenwith, bangs on the door and cries for help. Uncle Charles sends her away. She shows up back at Nampara, slightly out of breath, just after Ross wins the fight. Trenwith is four or five miles from Nampara, no? It's either a nice horse ride or a l-o-n-g walk. In fact, early in episode 1, Ross borrows a horse from Charles so he can go home after getting the bad news about Elizabeth at the Trenwith gathering. Yet somehow Prudie waddled through an eight-to-10-mile round trip in only three minutes! I doubt that she was physically capable of making the trip at all on foot, but in any case it likely would have taken her most of a day. The Prudie expedition was patently ridiculous, and I wish I hadn't seen it. This is perhaps the only way in which the PBS version is superior to the original.

It wasn't intended to contradict anything. It's an explanation, not an argument.

I think episode 4 effectively illustrates the type of very limited upward mobility that could have been available to poor women in the Poldark era. No one was trying to present an actual kitchen maid for acceptance by polite society. Ross and Demelza were not crusaders for cultural diversity in drawing rooms. Demelza did not show up at Trenwith in her former maid's clothing, with her working class mores. Instead, she adopted the ways of the upper class. She wore their gowns, employed their manners, and learned their dances. In short, Demelza assimilated. Moreover, Demelza was not attempting to become a landowner or a member of Parliament. She sought only acceptance as a landowner's wife. As with even the blueblooded wives, her role was largely ornamental. So in the case of a particularly beautiful ornament, who is also witty, lively, and sufficiently (if not perfectly) refined, the only objection left is that of low birth, pure and simple. While we would expect some sticklers for protocol to rely on that flimsy ground for rejection, I think most gentlemen probably would have acquiesced. They might not have dared to conduct an experiment with a miner's daughter on their own, but if another member of their class had pulled it off successfully, why continue to object beyond a bit of pro forma grumbling to oneself? Also, there was probably a glimmer of understanding among the gentry that such social promotions, if kept rare, could be helpful to the upper class as well. The belief that bloodlines could become "tired" (e.g., that of the Chynoweths) was not uncommon, so importing a vital, attractive, and intelligent newcomer might have been seen as a reasonable remedy, if applied sparingly. After all, Ross and Demelza's children would be raised as gentry and therefore would become gentry themselves.

I agree that the 1975 Dwight Enys was excellent. I still remember the arch way he would intone, "Miss Penvenen." But the 1977 Dr. Enys was a tepid character, and I never really got used to the change. I think the 2015-16 Enys may at least be able to surpass the latter. I think Enys will become a more dynamic figure when Caroline arrives.

The response of men to Demelza is always amusing. I don't think it constitutes a spoiler to make a general reference to the books here, because the behavior of John Treneglos in episode 4 makes the dynamic pretty clear. It starts with some gentleman or even aristocrat saying something like, "I believe we'll be favored with the presence of Ross Poldark -- you know, the madman who married (smirk) his maid?!" Then, when he first sees Demelza, the reaction is, "Damn me!" And after his conversing with her, we hear this kind of thinking: "Lord So-and-So was beginning to understand why Ross Poldark had committed the gross impropriety of marrying his maid."

I created this thread in order to have a place to discuss aspects of the 2015 Poldark series that do not relate to individual episodes or even to the storyline in general. Any creative or technical topic that does not fit into a story-related thread is welcome here. I'd like to start by discussing the music by Anne Dudley, which is wonderful. (I should note that I'm a serious amateur musician who has played a lot of film and theatrical arrangements. I pay a lot of attention to TV and movie scores.) I was very surprised by the impact the music has had on me. The 1970s Poldark had a melodramatic main theme and then just rather bland underscoring that was typical of British dramas of that era. I don't recall the music's being a significant contributor to my enjoyment of the program. But Dudley's work is just beautiful, and it reinforces the strongly emotional, romantic tone of the story. In the 2015 opening credits, the main theme is first stated by a solo violin played aggressively. It's an urgent, questing statement. Then the theme is recapitulated by the string orchestra -- softer, more subdued, graceful, but still passionate. Finally, the solo violin and the orchestra recombine for a brief closing. Now, this may be a corny interpretation on my part, but I hear the first statement of the theme as Ross's question to the world, and the recapitulation as Demelza's answer. Ever since that idea occurred to me, I can't hear the opening music any other way. I haven't purchased the soundtrack album yet, but I will shortly. One irksome aspect of the compilation, however, is the omission of "I D'Pluck a Fair Rose" sung by Demelza. Why on earth? That was a really bad misjudgment on someone's part. Also, another great piece of music appears to be missing. This piece is played at several points during the program, such as the scene in which Ross and Demelza dance at Jim and Jinny's wedding. The source music in the scene (a reel played on bagpipes) is gradually replaced by the orchestral score, again featuring a solo violin. We hear energetic dance rhythms on the fiddle with a steady reduction in tempo to a wistful, almost melancholy conclusion. This short cue is gorgeous, and I would be very disappointed not to have it on the soundtrack. I guess I'll find out for sure later whether it's on the album or not, but can anyone confirm its presence or absence? Thanks.

iTunes is $20 for HD and $15 for SD, with a few featurettes added. Good ol' PBS is cutting out at least 10 percent of each episode!

I don't think that was a reference to Elizabeth, who by that point had been married to Francis for several years. It might have been a reference to Ruth Teague, who had been pursuing Ross. I think it was really just a general reference to the sort of mistress they were likely to acquire should Ross do what was expected of him and choose a wife from among the gentry. They decided that they were better off with Demelza than with some unknown, snobbish interloper.

No, it wasn't. They met at the dance, and then they met in Truro on at least one occasion, perhaps more. Ross saw Verity there when he and Demelza went to town, and we the viewers later saw Verity say goodbye to Blamey after their visit.

I don't disagree with these general statements, but I offer these two counterpoints: Ross goes to Trenwith in book four out of a desire to control/possess Elizabeth AND because of the conflict in his own emotions. He's still not sure about his feelings for her vs. his feelings for Demelza. I actually think that's somewhat insane at that stage of his life (I will stick with my observation in my first post here that Ross can't tell the difference between an emotion and the memory of an emotion), but that's how the character is written. When Ross talks to Demelza at the end of the book, he tells her very plainly that after he spent that night with Elizabeth, he was uncertain about his feelings for weeks. He didn't know what he wanted. Ross does change over time in various ways, certainly, but one thing that is very clear in the books is that after he unequivocally resolves the Demelza vs. Elizabeth dilemma, he never again wavers. At the end of book four, he tells Demelza that after finally sorting out his feelings, "The one thing I was able to realize is that my true and real love was not for her but for you" (slight paraphrase). Elizabeth is never any kind of romantic rival for Demelza in the subsequent books. Ross still cares for her, but knows he does not love her. What I'm saying is that the 2015 adaptation has essentially taken that emotional epiphany of Ross's and moved it up a few years in the story. Telling Elizabeth that Demelza is the love of his life is equivalent to telling Demelza that his true love is for her, not for Elizabeth. Having Ross backslide after such a moment of self-awareness would be untrue to the character, in my opinion. It took him too long to reach that awareness in the books, I think, but he didn't waver after reaching it. Having him waver in the new program would diminish him. As Verity told Demelza in episode 4, "Ross forgets nothing."

Agreed. When I was thinking about how the UK program might be edited by PBS, the first rule I came up with was that no interaction between Ross and Demelza (romantic or otherwise) should ever be deleted. Discovering that PBS was not following that rule was one of the reasons I quickly sprang for the uncut versions on iTunes. There are plenty of staring-at-the-sea montages that could be shortened by half without affecting the show in the slightest, so why a conversation between the two leads would be removed instead baffles me.