withanaich

You know, I was thinking about where this show went wrong, and I went back to the start, and I was sure it had something to do with the attempts at building a mythology, and than it hit me...what the hell has ever been the mythology? Even back in the day, when it was about the royals and the resistance and the Wessen council and the Grimms and all that shit, none of THAT was even explained well! I think that's the root of the problem, right there: the writers don't know what they're doing. They have a lot of good ideas, but they don't know what to do with them. Ideas are not plots. If you don't know what to do with an idea, you put it down and walk the hell away until you do. These writers just go full steam ahead until they end up with ... what we have here. And then they have the nerve to pretend that this was what they had planned, and that they knew all along what they were going to do with the royals, keys, etc. I think that's what pisses me off the most. This could have been a really good show, from beginning to end. There are a lot of good elements here, still. But it went off the rails somewhere along the way. And instead of these final episodes being the satisfying conclusion we've been promised (and waiting for), it's just a frustrating, sad, woulda-coulda-shoulda mess. Holy shit. And here my silly ass was thinking it was because Juliette was originally supposed to be the science-y character who could use her knowledge of creatures (mundane though they were) to figure out how to take down certain Wesen, but then when Rosalee came in, they had no idea what to do with Juliette anymore. But no. It's not a kinda-smart decision made by writers who could SEE they were perhaps painting themselves into a corner. It's more bullshit. I should've known.

When I said I loved the cast, I assumed it was understood that I was NOT including that child, lol. And I don't feel bad about saying that. Maybe the actress is a perfectly lovely little girl, but the character is a shining symbol of everything that has gone wrong with this show, aside from the fact that she can't act at all (which can't be blamed on her age, because decent child actors do exist), and I cringe every moment she's onscreen. That can't be it though, because Renard has done plenty of underhanded, not-quite-legal (or downright ILLEGAL) stuff, or looked the other way when someone (whether that was Nick or the bad guys) broke the law. I can almost accept Renard turning against Nick as being in-character for him, because he's been shown to be power-hungry in the past. But they haven't explained WHY Renard needs to turn against Nick to maintain that power. They haven't explained why he can't work with Nick (even if it's behind the scenes) to destroy Black Claw for good, so he can have real power rather than being a puppet. And they're not showing us any kind of reasoning on Renard's part! They never show anymore, they just tell. And what they want to tell us depends on which way the wind blows. Oh, Renard is morally ambiguous (because we haven't decided if he's bad or good yet), wait now he's totally on Nick's side because we said so, oh wait now he's evil and he wants Nick dead because we said so. It's just more character assassination, a la Juliette's a hexenbiest and she's burning down the trailer and helping kill Nick's mother because something something magic, being a hexenbiest makes you crazy and evil (until we decide it doesn't). Or Adalind is an amoral villain, and we haven't really decided if that's because something something hexenbiest magic or because her mother's awful, oh wait now she's complete dead weight and has no agency because she's in WUV. There's character development, which generally happens over time and is SHOWN and understood to be, you know, developing. And then there's whatever childish action figure smash-up bullshit these writers are doing.

I remember that too (I wonder if the writers do?) and can only assume that she was referring to the bad plots. My husband stopped watching around the time I (temporarily) rage-quit last season, which I think was when Nick fell in "love" with his rapist and started playing house. He tuned back in for the final season and I had to respond to all of his "WTF?!" questions with stuff like "... long story, I'll tell you during the commercials," and "yeah, I know, Adalind used to be a cool villain, I don't know why she's doing nothing but sighing and wringing her hands between diaper changes now," and "no, I don't know what Renard's deal is, no one does," and "oh, yeah, Wu's like a werewolf now? I guess I forgot about that crazy shit." It's like this show is being co-written by 45 simple-ass pre-teens raised on nothing but the shittiest soaps. And they're not even reaching some sort of consensus, they're just throwing everything at the wall regardless of whether or not it sticks (spoiler alert: it doesn't). As for why I'm still watching this hot mess: I like the actors, and I remember when the show used to be good, when it was something I really looked forward to watching and actually ENJOYED. (And sometimes you can still see glimpses of that show, like when Hank is being awesomely direct, or when Bud shows up.) And since it'll all be over soon, I guess I'm sticking it out until the bitter end. But that doesn't mean I won't be rolling my eyes all the way there.

Yes, they did. It was a miniseries called Tin Man. I am so in for this show. I don't care if it's bad but delightful, or just kinda bad, I am a sucker for crap like this.

Oh, I totally agree that villains should have nuance, I just think that this was a bad way to try to get there. They really need to show (not tell) us about all the bad things Rittenhouse has done, rather than clumsily trying to make Flynn seem Not As Bad in comparison. That way we end up thinking that even if Flynn has killed some people, maybe the ends justify the means. And they've already given Flynn a "reason" for his villainy, even if not everyone can agree it's a good one. The whole "they killed my family and now they must pay" thing is a bit of a trope, but as it's something most people can relate to on some level, it still works. They could have shown Flynn reminiscing over the loss of his family or happier times he spent with them (do we know anything about them other than "they died"?), rather than devoting MORE air time to Wyatt's manpain (I so do not care). There are ways to make Flynn more three-dimensional that don't involve some ridiculous plan to WALK AWAY from the wife and child he literally DESTROYED HISTORY to get back. Also, that plan kind of erases his wife's agency. I don't know that I'd want my husband to go on a killing spree across time to bring me back to life, but if he did, I'd really like to at least enjoy the fruits of his labor. Now that I think about it, I think I remember him saying something about bringing her with him to show her how bad Rittenhouse actually is. Did I imagine that? If not, I am all here for it, obviously. I don't think he actively wants to harm Lucy, because he has it in his head (from her journal) that they end up working together. So this isn't him taking her as a hostage (as much as it looks that way), it's him showing her what he thinks she needs to see to finally come over to his side. I really hope that she starts at least thinking about it before Wyatt and Rufus manage to find and free her. Even if she's not a full-blown convert by that point, maybe some seeds of doubt will have been planted, and she'll start trying to sway the others.

I think that was a hamfisted attempt to give Flynn some kind of nuance. Too late, show. I mean, I love him as a villain, and I'm actually pretty interested in watching his interactions with the team, but no matter how bad Rittenhouse is, Flynn has done some things that push him firmly out of the gray area. Unless they explain that all the people he blithely killed were super hardcore evil, I'm not buying that his actions are okay just because he's willing to walk away from his wife and child (or so he says) as penance once he gets them back.

Well, of course they literally/legally can, and I imagine there was at least one writer who floated the idea, but the higher-ups are still not wont to let that sort of thing happen. Because some 12-year-old might be watching and get the vapors or something, I guess. Yeah, even on a 10 pm show; this is still NBC. And I'd argue that the plot doesn't really demand that Rittenhouse be around for the first season. Rittenhouse the organization, maybe, but the organization already exists. Actually, that's another good argument that Lucy could have made: killing the founder and his underage son would have just given the group something else to rally around. "They killed our leader and his innocent boy, these peasants must be crushed!" Maybe when the group gets back to the future they find that something even worse has taken Rittenhouse's place. And then Lucy has to deal with the fact that maybe she should have let Flynn kill the kid, and/or Flynn finds that his wife and kid are still dead and he killed all those people for nothing. There are a lot of directions the second half of the season could go in without Rittenhouse existing.

Yeah, that was some real bullshit. I know that they’re still not willing to go there on network TV, but they could have had the kid get killed in some other way. He gets caught in the wake of the Mothership, or Lucy’s attempt to save him actually ends up getting him killed, or he flips out because he just watched some strangers murder his father and they have to kill him in self-defense. But none of this complete cop-out “he’s just a boy” shit. Lucy could have even argued that they couldn't mess things up even more than they already had by KILLING CORNWALLIS. But no, she was arguing that this one act, after all the horrible things Flynn has done, all the people he's killed, would somehow blacken his soul and be the point of no return for him. His wife and child would be perfectly happy to learn all the things he's done, all the innocents he's taken out, that he SHOT ABRAHAM LINCOLN IN THE HEAD, if only he doesn't shoot this one creepy kid who's being groomed to be a rapist and murderer? Come on, man.

But remember, they have two missions: 1) capture/kill Flynn and 2) stop him from screwing up the past. They've obviously failed in that first mission but they were able to stop him from achieving his goal on nearly every trip, even though a few things got changed because of his/their interference. For example, the passengers on the Hindenburg lived, but the trio was able to keep Flynn from killing the leaders he was targeting instead. So I don't think we can consider them a complete failure. I was pretty sure they were going to kill her off when she started looking into Rittenhouse and they showed her talking all lovingly to her kid on the phone. When they revealed that she was gay (although I agree that it was done very organically), I literally groaned, like, oh shit they’re gonna kill off another lesbian. I really hope I’m wrong and the show is faking us out. They said the Lifeboat can only hold three people. I don't think they specified how many the Mothership can hold, but it doesn't appear to be much bigger. (Unless it's, you know, bigger on the inside...) I don't know if they're talking about the physical constraints, the number of seats/seat belts (it looks like more than three humans could technically be crammed inside, but maybe it's a basic safety issue), or if there's some physics-related reason (like you can't bring back more organic matter than you took with you). It's probably not that last one, because that would be far too complicated for this show. But yes, according to the rules of the show, Flynn would have to strand one of his henchmen to bring Lucy in their place (assuming the ship was full of passengers when he arrived in the past and he's not just recruiting goons when he gets there). I don't believe they've addressed whether or not either ship has to come directly back to the present after a trip. I think the Lifeboat might have to, in order to recharge/refuel, but of course Flynn doesn't have that problem anymore.

Exactly. I don't have a problem with Lucy mourning her sister, I have a problem with her being ridiculous enough to think someone can magically get her back and bratty enough to demand that the government make a "deal" to do it. Of course losing her sister like that would freak her out. Of course she would be angry and sad and maybe even feel guilty. Sure. No one's saying she should "move on." But this stamping of feet and screaming at Homeland Security to wave a wand and somehow bring her sister -- that particular sister -- back from the cornfield is just ridiculous.

I keep thinking the same thing. Both Flynn and Lucy are seriously delusional if they think they can just undo something like that. Like you said, even if they go back in time and undo the actions that led to Flynn's family dying and Lucy's sister not existing, it's essentially impossible that the sister that DOES exist is going to be the one Lucy knew. She might end up with a brother instead, or three brothers, or wipe her own birth out of existence. And even if Flynn makes it so that Rittenhouse can't kill his wife, he might never meet her. Even more likely, her parents would end up with a different daughter or three sons instead. I think Agent Christopher realizes that, though, which is why she's making that decision for her alternate reality self. Because this Agent Christopher doesn't want to forget them, and she knows that a different version of herself (oy, this is making my head hurt) would very likely say, "no, don't tell me." Ditto. Rufus is the MVP. I love how even when he's being a badass, he’s still adorably awkward about it. Did you see him running and ducking for cover after he busted in to save the day? Hee! Because somehow we’re supposed to believe that Flynn didn’t do ANY research on the origins of this group. He was clever/diligent enough to discover them, but not to pinpoint the best way to take them out. I can believe that Wyatt and Rufus were surprised to learn that Rittenhouse was a real person, maaaaybe even Lucy the historian (she can't know everything about history, even if the show wants to pretend otherwise when it's convenient), but Flynn? When bringing this group down is his raison d’etre? He seriously didn’t consult Google for like three seconds and think, hmm, maybe the group is named after this man, who was alive around the time it was formed? Maybe I should just go kill this one person instead of jumping around through history and trying to cut America off at the knees? You still risk making the man a martyr for his cause, or someone else taking his place (like his creepy-ass son), but it's a lot easier and more direct than hoping that by taking away the country's power, you can take away the group's power. It's also more direct (and probably more effective) than targeting high-profile followers. If Flynn could find out who on the Hindenburg ended up being affiliated with Rittenhouse, then he could certainly find out why the hell they're called Rittenhouse in the first place. I can handwave a lot of silliness on this show, but I'm having a really hard time with that part.

No, the web series is completely different. You should definitely check it out, though!

I get where you're going with the rest of your criticism of Flynn, but the thinking here (I'm guessing) is that if they wipe the whole family out, it looks too suspicious and the authorities might (eventually) start looking in Rittenhouse's direction, and it's also possible they don't know what kind of safeguards Flynn put in place in the event of his death. The whole ball of yarn might unravel. This way, they punish Flynn for his snooping, set him up as a convenient fall guy for the crime so no one's looking for the real killer, and discredit him, all in one move. Then, if he does decide to start ranting about the covert organization with government ties who killed his wife and kid, no one will ever believe him. Or maybe Rittenhouse's goons are just as shitty at hitting their main target as Wyatt is. :-)

Kinda sorta have to agree. Not with the specifics (nothing wrong with a job at Best Buy if that's all you can get at the moment, and nobody "needs" to cheat, come the hell on), but both Lawrence and Issa should do some growing up before they're ready for a relationship, with each other (though I hope that ship has sailed) or anyone else. This, this, this all day long. This is a much better read on the situation, although I have to admit that this line from the article cracked me the hell up: Hee! I was a bit dumbfounded that he even took his pillow when he moved out! That must've been some expensive pillow. Was it one of those buckwheat dealies? Gold flakes? What?

Stopping the moon landing means that Russia doesn't give up on getting there first and essentially abandon its space program, which means that they are in a position to be more of a viable threat to the U.S. later on, which means Rittenhouse loses some or all of its power, which means they are probably not in a position to murder Flynn's wife and kid in retaliation for his snooping (or, they don't even exist by the time he would have stumbled on to them). The goal of most of Flynn's trips is hobbling or destroying Rittenhouse, which usually means hobbling or destroying the U.S., since they're so closely intertwined. Flynn compared what he's doing to chemotherapy. He's attacking the body (the U.S.) in order to destroy the cancer (Rittenhouse). I can't really see him as morally gray, but this analogy shows us that it's how he sees himself. True, but I don’t know what Lucy expects them to DO, exactly. They’re supposed to be dealing with science, not magic. They can’t just wave a magic wand and bring her sister back. They can’t send her back to the same time where her actions wiped her sister out of existence (no do-overs, remember?). Technically, they’re liable for her sister's disappearance, but I don’t see how in the world she thinks they can make it right. What, does she want to go back and make sure the sister's parents get together? How, by killing the woman the sister's father ended up marrying, or that woman's ancestors? Way too many possible ripple effects. Flynn doesn’t care about that (which is why he saved his brother at the possible expense of his own existence...or even that of his child, but I doubt that even occurred to him), but the government does. No way they’re going for that, and I kind of wish she'd stop bitching about it. Be sad, commiserate with Wyatt and Rufus, sure, but stop whining to the government and demanding that they do something stupid. In those moments, she's as bratty and annoying as Wyatt. I have to think they only made that "deal" with her to keep her on the mission (for super-seekrit Rittenhouse Dad reasons). The only way I could see it happening is in the series finale: Lucy steals the lifeboat, goes back to a time before her birth and arranges things (SOMEHOW) so that her mother ends up with the sister's father, thus wiping Lucy from existence. Lucy could sacrifice herself to bring her sister back, but only if we don’t have to worry about having Lucy in more episodes.

That's not always the case, but it's certainly the way it works on this show. Remember the picture of Lucy's sister? She had it with her in the time machine while the timeline was being changed and the sister wiped from existence, so it still exists. The sister is no longer in the photo in Lucy's mother's house, but she's still in the photo Lucy had with her. No idea how "off" she would have sounded to them, but I definitely noticed it. For one thing, she was speaking far too slowly; even I, with my five years of shitty public school French, could understand her. I think we are just going to have to handwave it, but like henripootel pointed out, they would be better off pretending to be allies from "somewhere else" than trying to fit in as natives.

How is Charley gonna break anything to Micah without him flipping out? Why even bother? I wish she'd decide if she wants to treat him like a five year old or like the adult he seems to think he is. "Okay, you want to get in grown people's business? Well, your father needs a job so we can afford to keep buying you nice clothes and cell phones and everything else you like, so it is what it is. You still don't have to see him if you don't want to." Except Micah is the one who seems to harbor some hope of his parents getting back together, so I don't know if it would even bother him that much to have Davis move closer. And I think they moved across the country to escape the paparazzi more than Davis. Because if you'll recall, he had no problems stalking them all the way to Louisiana. (Actually, for a while I was worried that the paps would follow them too, especially after Nova's boss was trying to get her to write the story.)

Actually, kind of the exact opposite happened. Wyatt was freaking out ("I'm a specially trained military man but I need a teeeam to do my job"), demanding that Rufus think of a way out, and then when Rufus remembered the protocol and started implementing the only plan he possibly could, Wyatt (and Lucy) proceeded to ask a bunch of questions (that Rufus didn't have the answers to) and whine. What a couple of babies. I hope Wyatt's not starting to rub off on her, and I don't mean in a romantic way, although the show has been dropping some awful anvils in that direction as well. Wyatt is purely the muscle. He's good at shooting (except Flynn, but even I'm willing to concede that that's not really his fault), and knocking people out in a hurry. Oh, and he speaks German. Well, we can see that Flynn is not all bad, and I think maybe after the last episode it's starting to dawn on the team as well, but they don't know for sure. Flynn could still be lying, about a lot of things. They don't know who they can trust. I think Lucy was mainly bothered because Flynn is okay with killing a lot of people to get what he wants (which upsets her as a person) and very intent on destroying the course of history (which upsets her on a professional level). Plus, you know, his shenanigans led to her sister being wiped from existence. So naturally, she's not happy to think about how she would have to change in order to be okay working with someone like that. But I think it's moot anyway. Lucy knows about the journal, and so probably won't start it. (Which is probably why Flynn won't give her any more details about how their alliance comes to be, in case she decides against that as well when it comes up. It doesn't matter with the journal, because it already exists and Flynn has it, but he doesn't want to influence any of her other future actions in the "wrong" direction.)

I thought there were indications, starting in the first episode, that he was nearing the end of his career? I don't follow sports so a lot of the specifics go right over my head, but add to that the fact that he costs quite a bit (as the guy Charley talked to said) and is now dogged by this scandal, and I think there are a lot of reasons why he might have a hard time getting a contract. I'm sure that personally Charley would like to have Davis as far away as possible (Vi had to remind her that he's still Micah's father, and she thought Charley should let him be in his life), but she's also a businesswoman who wants the best deal she can get.

Wait, liking Folgers' "Peter" ad is controversial now? I LOVE that ad, and I usually don't like anything sappy! I don't even care that the film quality is in the toilet now, I wait impatiently for that one every year.

That's her and Todd's favorite movie. It was one of the things they bonded over when they first met. They were quoting from it and Phil/Tandy was -- of course -- pretending that he was totally into it too, because he was still trying to get Melissa to like him. I hope they do more callbacks, if only so I can hear Todd do his Morgan Freeman impression.

I think Molly might have even suggested that. Maybe deep down, Issa wanted an excuse to talk to Daniel again?

Am I the only one who thinks Lawrence might have already slept with the bank teller? He seemed to be coming on strong with Issa all of a sudden, even thinking about proposing marriage. I hope it's not true, and not only because it kinda sorta minimizes what Issa did, but I know that's how some people react to guilt. Like he cheated, realized it was a mistake, and it made him see that he should really commit to his relationship. Again, hope I'm wrong, and he was just trying to make up for forgetting her birthday and not pulling his weight. That was some shit straight out of Pride and Prejudice. "I was looking for something better, but I've learned that I should just settle for you!" I was so happy when he just shut the door in her face. Maybe it's the wake-up call she needs (if ever there was someone without a mental illness who needs therapy, it's Molly), but more importantly, I think he's far too good for her. I don't care for Molly very much. The first time she wasn't actively annoying me was when she and Issa were communicating non-verbally over how to handle Daniel. That was a good display of how close they are. I got the feeling that Daniel was actually invited (by Issa's coworker, who seemed to have a crush on him), or else how would he have known when and where to show up? He still shouldn't have come, and he admitted that he did only so he could force some kind of confrontation. He SAID he didn't want a relationship, but now that they had sex he changed his mind, and I guess Issa just should fall all over him? WTF-ever, Daniel. It was mean of her to tell him to his face that it meant nothing (and I was worried he was going to blow up right at the fundraiser), but it's nothing less than the truth. She's in a relationship. He told her he didn't want to date. They fucked one time. She didn't call him back. Dude, her non-response IS the response. Take a hint. The kids were highly entertaining in this episode, especially the one getting all excited over a drawer full of batteries. I don't think it's because he thought they were fancy, it's just that kids go crazy for weird stuff. (Plus, you have to admit that it would be pretty intriguing to find a drawer FULL of batteries in someone's house.) I think it's more that they represented a kid's idea of adulthood, that when you're grown you can do WHATEVER you want, even if it's having a drawer in your very nice house dedicated to batteries. And then when the teacher had to introduce the students as "the kids -- I mean, Dayniece and the kids..." because she didn't want to be lumped in with the others. Hee! They're some little terrors, but it's nice to see that they (and the boss lady) appreciate Issa's hard work. (And hilarious that her coworkers were not happy for her.)

I worried about Ralph Angel flipping out too, not because the two parties are trying to negotiate, but in his anger RA tends to show his hand. I was cringing, waiting for him to give Boudreaux a bunch of details like which mill they're going to use and the exact date and time they're leaving. It's better to make Boudreaux think they're still considering his "offer" for now so he doesn't do something like buy the other mill out from under them or sabotage their equipment. I wish the siblings would sit down and discuss how they will handle any future confrontations, both alone and separately, now that they know how dirty the Boudreaux/Landrys want to play.

She was also the one who figured out how to track Flynn's machine in the present day (until he found the new power source), but we haven't really heard from her since then.