sistermagpie

Plus the odd dynamic of both of them being widows, but one had a long and unhappy marriage she didn't want and the other had a short, happy one she did want. Agnes would be poor in more ways than one.

Good point! In my case I was just thinking of Mr. Rakes who was obviously going to dump her for somebody better connected, yet Marion kept taking risks with him because even though she didn't seem to be in love with him, she gave in to all of his arguments. And then there was Dashiell who was planning on marrying her while Marion was blissfully unaware his mind was in that neighborhood. Larry doesn't seem like he's going to spring anything on her like that. That said, your point is also true. Neither Marion or Larry seem like they're prepared to maneuver in society. They both just want to do what they want to do--and they would probably both support each other in their passions.

Yes, that's what I was going to say too. Bertha really hasn't had anything personal against Turner. She was shocked and horrified when Turner showed up as Mrs. Winterton, of course, but part of that was not knowing what to do since she doesn't just know this woman was a maid, she was *her* maid. But she decided to just not say anything. Turnerton holds it against her that she told everyone she had a sketchy past, but she didn't even do that. She even openly said she wasn't going to out her and Turnerton's response was to mock her by saying she slept with her husband! I think in some ways Bertha can't hate Turner that much even in this incarnation because she's simply not of the elite so she doesn't have enough strong feelings about her. She gets angry at her when she's attacking her, but she'd feel that about just about anybody.

Yes, he's clearly just entitled and it hasn't occurred to him he's overlooking anything. He doesn't think "you're not a real teacher" is an insult. He probably thinks it's a compliment. She's not some silly working girl who has a boss. She's a lady doing them a favor and showing how generous she is by helping them. Likewise he'd probably surprised if someone told him she's never shown romantic interest in him because first, look what she's been doing, and second...why wouldn't she? I thought the same thing. I just don't believe anyone in that crowd wouldn't have been repulsed by that. Why would they want to watch some guy get up and start making a speech about his private lovey-dovey romantic feelings, much less get down on one knee in the grass in front of them. They wouldn't want to be dragged into what should be a private, frank undignified moment. At least, that's what I thought about it.

Perfect for Marion. She needs somebody who isn't going to be making schemes for himself without caring about her, schemes that are obvious to everyone but her.

Right, but I'm saying it's not surprising that this is JF's design. He shows George being ruthless when dealing with other rich guys who try to cross him, and not feeling guilty for a suicide he didn't predict and didn't choose. But as a Good Paternal Elite, he sees the lower classes as more innocent.

I don't remember the details now, but wasn't he pretty chill about driving a rich man to suicide in S1? But when it comes to workers he gets softer. I think it's because JF honestly thinks of the true upper classes he writes about as feeling paternalistic and so protective of the people beneath them, so they always act like good mommy or daddy to their servants/non-white people.

So silly, though, the more you think about it, since this is about invention. It's the last area where you'd require people to already be attached to professional production of the product since it might not exist yet.

OMG, yes. His ordering the men to stand down wasn't strategic, it was that of course he had to be too noble to do anything really bad to people. Because he hasn't been hurting these people from a distance all this time at all! Yes, where the social issues of the white people are presented in ways where we're personally invested, with Peggy it's just an abstract thing where she's Donig What's Right. So somehow things that are far far more important (like Civil Rights) are far less important than who gets the central box at the opera. Which is one thing when all the characters live in the white bubble, but Peggy's a main character! Yes, you'd think she'd understand the ideas both father and daughter were getting here given that she actually lives in this society. That said, those two don't seem to be just confused by her mixed signals since they only see what they want to see. Add me to the list of people who was at first shocked when Ada said she "contributed" to the good reverend's bad back! Thank you! I know nothing about any of this, but it seemed completely impossible that Trotter would have to be part of any guild to get a patent on anything. There's a long history of outsiders being the ones to crack something the alleged experts can't, especially in the US. (Einstein worked in a patent office, didn't he?) It's not Rennaissance Italy.

Gladys didn't need all of those tools, though. Bertha was a middle class woman with ambitions to break into a society that didn't want her. Gladys was raised in luxury. Bertha probably does think she's giving Gladys the tools she needs for this world--she's always explicitly telling her exactly why she's doing what she's doing and why it's important to do it. But Gladys doesn't have the same obsession with being at the top of society because she's never been outside it.

Yes, a mom for his daughter--and a wife for him, which he also needs. He's basically said that. He's got a vacancy in his house and she's a good fit for it, so he's hired her assuming she's applying for the job.

I knew I was reacting the same way as the entire audience to that backache. It's never a backache and if he's not a villain, he's a goner. Backache=cancer, nosebleed=leukemia and nausea/faintness=pregnancy. I can't really blame her. That trick still gets used today. The guy is an asshole. She didn't even want to go to the party and he ambushes her to shame her into marrying him, proposing in front of a crowd full of people she knows. She's going to dump him because Ada's going to tell her how important it is to marry for love, even if it's just for a little while. ::sniff:: Annnnd Ada wrests the Edith title back from Peggy again!

I think you answered your own question. Having a mother that directed and easily dominating created a passive daughter who gave up trying to fight long ago. She hated Bertha before anybody scorned her, though.

Yes, he's had a great Broadway career, though of course that means most people don't see him as much. Apart from DPS, they mostly know him from House, probably.

Actor, apparently, based on the only recording he could find of Dodi's real voice, which was a very short clip. I assume that at least part of this presentation of Dodi was maybe about paralleling Charles, who also only married her after being pressured by his father, especially.

She openly hated Bertha before that - it seemed to be one reason why it would have been satisfying to sleep with her husband.

I think he has his own place. He comes to their house a lot, but he doesn't seem to live there. If he wants to stay over I'm sure there's a room for him, but he probably brought his boyfriend to his own apartment. I doubt it. Boston to New York doesn't seem like a demotion to me, especially when he's now the rector of people like Agnes. Seems more like they thought he was a safe bet who wouldn't offend anyone--and he was telling Ada how he didn't want to accept the job, so it didn't seem like he's supposed to have been expelled in disgrace.

I remember junior year my AP history class asked about the preamble and the whole class sang it in chorus. When you're of a certain age, you can't not do it that way.

For me, that's part of what's so weird. Because it's all coming from Turner. She's not spiteful to Bertha because Bertha did something to her, she was trying to destroy her personally and socially just for doing exactly what Turner is trying to do. It seems like a real bitch eating crackers situation for Turner!

Welll, Oscar is. Turner got the life of her dreams and now keeps doing things to put it in jeopardy because her true dream is to stick it to the woman she used to work for!

It's like Turner has to be so odious because if it was anybody else we'd all be rooting for them!

I believe it with the guy with his daughter, because he seems to be just looking for a wife and daughter and Marian's an obvious choice. He's not in love, but she's been showing herself to be a good mother. That's how a con is supposed to work. You don't ask, you lay things out and let the other person think it's their idea to get involved. I think he'd be able to reject it at this point because of his wife and her sister. Plus he seems like he might be able to retire if he had to. It would be a good way for her to fish around for how deep Oscar's pockets are, and also whether he's going to jump at the chance to earn money. I didn't think the behavior was fake, it just felt like those guys were waiting outside for their cue to come in and start racist-ing so Peggy would get a wake up call. And being Peggy it seems like this is the type of thing that will ultimately make her more of an activist. Because she'll be able to run away back home but that poor woman running the restaurant is still getting sexually assaulted. Yes, even those that aren't race related, like the baby story. I think it would be interesting for Ada to get interested in injustice, actually. She's got an Edith Bunker temperment, which makes her open-minded and believably someone who would care, and as a reverend Forte might do work that would bring it to her attention and get her out of the bubble she lives in now.

I feel like we learned that the guy Lane is playing actually did talk like that--he hammed up his own accent so in this case it's historically accurate. I'm not from Boston so can't speak to authenticity but I've really loved RSL's accent. It's very soft and doesn't sound like he's trying to do a whole Boston accent thing like in a Ben Affleck movie. It's endearing and very pleasant!

That's what I was wondering too. How much money is she giving him to make himself unemployable by being inept at the party of the season? I do feel like that will change things for bald butler. And I liked how Armstrong as usual was wrong about somebody else finding happiness. Ha ha. The story in the south seemed so weird set against the soups being served as if one of them had a bomb in them. Still, it played as pretty tame and contrived. Not that I wanted to see worse, but clearly this is not a show that wants to depict the racist side of life. The entrance of the racist white guys did feel like a theatrical cue, although I'm sure it's realistic that they would do that. And I really didn't buy Peggy reacting to the scary situation by snogging her editor. No. Back in New York, I was positively squeeing at the wedding and Ada is just the sweetest thing, I love her. I liked when Agnes first tried to say Ada had no money and Forte almost had to laugh at her desperation for him to be anything but a man finding love in middle age. And Ada seeing all these people showing up for her to show they want her to be happy because they love her quietly warm self was just great. Agnes appearing like the angel of death was pretty great, though.

Was just talking to somebody about this. Apparently the actor didn't have anything to go on because Dodi was very private. He had like a 35 second clip of him talking and went from that. So I don't know if for some reason he had an American accent or maybe he tried to have one in the US and it worked in that tiny clip? Because it seems like surely he should have had an English accent? Why would his father the anglophile raise him in the US?