squidprincess

Has Sara actually led a team before? I'm shaky on my Arrow knowledge, but I'd remembered her as a solo vigilante. The League of Assassins also seemed to be more single-assassin missions rather than a team scenario. She had a lot of good suggestions in season 1, but hadn't really put herself forward for leadership for any of the individual missions. So it'd make some sense if she was a bit nervous about it, and that can come out as cockiness. She's obviously got the skills and expertise to lead, but this might be the first time she's had the opportunity to put that to the test.

I think maybe it's just that Ray is used to being one of the powerhouses of the team. Sara's by far the best physical fighter, sure, but it's not like she or the other unpowered/unsuited teammates could go one on one with the Leviathan or take on an exploding meteor without help. Ray could and did. It's pretty understandable that he'd feel that loss. He went from being one of the top two heavy hitters (with Firestorm), to being considerably less effective than the unpowered heroes, since he hasn't shown any particular skill with hand-to-hand or melee combat like Sara or even Rip, and he doesn't have Mick's capacity for violence. It's understandable, I think, that he's going to feel weak and useless for a while until he realizes what he still has to offer.

I actually didn't mind Gabby this episode. I mean, I thought she was wrong and unfair, but that's human. She isn't the first new foster parent to freak out and overreact to something and she won't be the last. But I really liked that, for once, the show actually acknowledged that she was being unfair instead of validating her as it often does. It was pretty gratifying to see Severide (another character who tends to be over-validated by the show in my opinion), gently call her out on it. The warehouse crisis was completely implausible, but I thought the actors did a pretty good job of selling it. I was tense and invested in the outcome. When the hell did Casey learn to do one of those makeshift tracheotomies though? Honestly, I dislike Brett more than Gabby at this point. I mean, she was right in this episode that she shouldn't have been pulled in the middle, but I distinctly remember her having a number of "taking it personally" misdemeanors herself last season (like when that dude kidnapped his kid from the drug addict mom). Gabby is at least consistent. Brett is a hypocrite. And honestly, what kind of romance novel are Mouch and Brett writing anyway? I don't recall many romance novels that have a subplot of the female lead making out with her female friend. I mean, there are same sex romance novels, but they still tend to follow the same, usually monogamous conventions. And the target audience of romance novels is usually straight female readers, so who exactly is this random makeout session supposed to titillate? Trudy is still pretty great though. I loved that she wasn't mad about the romance novel, or even the secrecy. She was mad that he forgot she had a friend with publishing ties and could actually help him.

They could have easily made up a historical figure and fudged the dates. I don't think anyone would have blinked. It would have been remarkably easy to set it in the Sengoku period and have Iemitsu as a made up local warlord. But they specifically named an actual historical figure, and they specifically had him killed ten years too early. I really doubt that's an accident. I don't think we'll see any major consequences for this particular incident, but it's very possible that this will be part of a larger trend of carelessness that will lead to bigger issues later that will need to be fixed. Legends is a stupid show in a lot of ways, but it also set up a nice causal loop between the Time Masters, Rip Hunter, and Vandal Savage in season 1. So they're not averse to using consequences when it suits them.

I think there's a difference between the season one and season two changes that we're talking about here. The changes that the crew made in season one were much smaller: a dropped piece of technology, a Soviet scientist witnessing Jax and Martin as Firestorm. Rip caught the Atom technology right away, but he did miss the Soviet program. I don't think that's an indicator that Rip wasn't monitoring though. Just that he's not omniscient and may not always realize that a change took place. Once he did know about the Soviet program, he was clearly monitoring enough to know that Martin being imprisoned was a very big deal. The Star City incident is kind of a special case, because there are one of two interpretations here. 1. That Star City fell due to Sara and Ray's absence, meaning that it would be negated as soon as Sara and Ray returned, and this potential future wouldn't have been a blip on their radar if they didn't crash there. Or 2. That Star City was always going to fall. If we take Rip at his word that Sara was supposed to die against Darhk with Laurel (which makes sense given that death scene), and that Ray is equally as "historically insignificant", then this wouldn't be something he'd be monitoring at all. It'd just be a fixed point on the timeline. Either way, that's not really something Rip would necessarily look up until it became relevant. We did see him consult Gideon about the timeline once they were there. The thing is, in season 1, Rip was busy hunting someone who, until 2166, was operating behind the scenes. So there was a lot more leeway in terms of what changes could be made to the timeline because of it. They didn't interact with any actual historical figures, unless you count Per Degaton, who was historical to Rip and Miranda at least. And we know that it didn't go well, because Rip and Gideon immediately followed up on it. Season 2 is a bit different because they're trying to deal with someone/something interfering with major historical events. But we do see that, at least in France, Rip was very concerned with the preservation of the timeline (including the conception of Louis XIV.) We've seen in both seasons that Rip consults Gideon fairly extensively before they arrive at a new location. And we also saw him monitoring after they'd "saved" Einstein, to determine that no, the problem was still in place. JSA wasn't as big of a deal, because they had Nate's dogtags to indicate that the time alteration happened and to reverse it. But they also have a stowaway, and no indication that they ever checked her historical significance. (Unless Vixen has already had a child, Mari is a significant factor to consider. She is not "historically insignificant" the way the original Legends supposedly are.) They also completely interfered in Japan, where there was no outside time alteration. They killed a historical figure, and there is no indication that anyone even asked Gideon what might have changed because of it. Yet, anyway. They still could consult her about it next episode, which would admittedly take a lot of the wind out of my argument. :-)

Except that this very likely COULD effect the characters that you see. Granted, none of these characters are Japanese (at least as far as I'm aware of), but this is change that could potentially have global effects. The Tokugawa shogunate ruled Japan from the 1600s to the 1800s. One of the major features of this time period was their extremely isolationist policies. The strictest of these policies were enacted by Tokugawa Iemitsu and upheld by his successors. In the 1800s, colonial interest in both China and Japan led to some very drastic action, including the Perry Expedition which led to the forcible opening of Japanese ports. The after effects of the foreign incursion contributed to the factors which led to the Meiji Restoration, putting the Emperor back in direct power. This had substantial influence in a generation or two of Japanese society, leading to the ideology that formed Japan's basis for their actions during WWII and afterwards, including the Russo-Japanese War, the US Occupation, the growth of the Zaibatsu and Keiretsu corporate structures and so on. Now, it might not matter. Maybe Iemitsu's immediate successor in this new timeline had very similar policies and we won't see a difference. Or maybe his successor would have a more radical viewpoint. Maybe Japan opens her ports earlier. Maybe Japan creates different diplomatic alliances. Maybe Japan develops a different relationship with the United States, technology and business. This could have an effect on many Arrow and Flash characters. For example, would Queen Consolidated have developed in the same way if the Japanese business industry didn't have the same impact on the global market? Would Palmer Tech or STARlabs develop the same way without the Japanese contribution to the tech industry? Would the League of Assassins be the same if the Asian nations had a different diplomatic dynamic? So, already, you have potential changes to Oliver, Thea, Laurel, Sara, Felicity, Ray, Barry, Wells, Caitlin, Cisco, Jax and Martin and so on and so forth. I mean, I don't think it actually WILL have an effect on any of them. But the possibility is there. The Legends are being very very careless right now, and that could backfire on them.

That seems a bit inconsistent considering the criticism you've made about Barry Allen's alterations to his timeline. Nora Allen was one woman, of no historical significance, and we saw what kind of effect that Nora surviving had on the whole of Central City. Sara Diggle doesn't even exist anymore due to that timeline alteration. The Legends on the other hand caused the death of the ruler of Japan ten years early. That's of considerably larger scope. Now it might be that the timeline is fluid enough to accommodate that change or that the resulting long term effects would actually be positive. But we don't see Sara or the other Legends trying to find out either. That seems decidedly irresponsible.

I definitely feel the absence of the experienced time traveler given that they've killed a historical figure ten years early. (especially when there was no outside tampering this time) And really as sweet as the moment with Einstein's wife was, that was also a significant timeline change that no one seemed particularly concerned about. Or that they've (admittedly, accidently) recruited someone who is the opposite of insignificant to the timeline given that Mari has to exist. (Rip made changes, but we also saw him compulsively checking on the changes.) I am really starting to think this will be plot significant.

It isn't unheard of for a man to take a woman's last name in Japan if her family was the higher status or had no sons. The fact that Masako has a surname at all during this time period, and the fact that the Shogun wanted to marry her would indicate that her family is fairly high status. If her brother had been her only sibling, then it's pretty likely that her husband would take her name. Similarly, if Tatsu's family is significantly higher status than Masao's he might well have taken her name too.

The key thing is that Nate is a historian who has apparently made a study of Classical Japanese. That isn't surprising given how useful first person accounts and contemporaneous records are to the field. And since classical Japanese was used until the early Showa period (early twentieth century-specifically Hirohito's reign) there would be a lot of samples (including living people who still use it) that Nate would have access to in order to learn the forms and development over time. This isn't a matter of someone learning Latin and miraculously being understood in Rome. We're dealing with something much more recent and well preserved. He probably sounds weird, but if he pays attention to his vocabulary choices, it’s plausible that he could converse. Given that Nate is a comic book academic though, I won’t be surprised when he is able to converse in Latin in Rome, but this particular incident isn't that outlandish.

The Edo period of Japan wasn't that long ago, practically speaking. Iemitsu himself was born in 1604 and died in 1651. So basically, we're talking about the same temporal distance as a modern English speaker being able to make himself understood in Shakespearean England. And that's basically doable, assuming someone has done his research. And while Japanese linguistics was never my strong suit, IIRC, the Japanese language didn't actually have the same factors that caused the English language to change as much as it has in the last four hundred years. The phonetic component of the Japanese written language is also pretty straightforward in a way that English is not, so Nate's got that as an advantage as well. I'd imagine his accent is very strange, and some of the vocabulary doesn't translate exactly, but the idea that he could make himself understood when he has, apparently, paid a particular academic focus to this time period is actually fairly plausible. What isn't plausible to me, though, is Nate's attitude about the whole thing. It isn't just that he's empathized with this woman and wants to save her from a rotten fate. He acts like everything is a total shock to him. Tokugawa Iemitsu was the shogun who instituted the strictest laws regarding foreign contact in Japan, and the most isolationist policies. So why is he so surprised that this random old man that he meets is antagonistic and wary of him? Why is he so open about being a foreigner when he ought to know damn well that by coming forward instead of hiding, he's endangering the people who are sheltering him? Why does he act so shocked at the thought of Masako in an arranged marriage or that the Shogun, to put it bluntly, is a bit of a dick? It's like the writers couldn't decide whether they wanted him to be legitimately knowledgeable, or clueless, earnest white dude who will Save Everyone.

I kind of suspect that killing Iemitsu early will be a plot point. We may see similar timeline alterations in the coming episodes, where the Legends end up disrupting time as much as saving it. I think it might be tied in with Rex's warning and Rip's disappearance. Nate is a historian and Sara is an excellent leader but they've lost the experienced time traveller who keeps track of this stuff.

I think Japanese was one of the languages that Nate speaks. And to be fair, he is a historian, so it's mildly more acceptable that he would be able to speak Edo-period Japanese. It doesn't really explain his inappropriate behavior though.

I think the problem with Nate being the man to explain the history/culture is that this was his first chance to be useful in that capacity, and he failed royally. He was by far the most conspicuous and disruptive person in the group after Ray, but where Ray's mishap was largely not his fault (he couldn't have predicted that he'd get caught and the suit stolen), Nate kept calling attention to himself. I've liked Nate in the first two episodes, but this seemed like a step back.

I really enjoyed the Jax and Martin scenes, but I was a bit uncomfortable with the episode on a whole. Particularly Nate's plot. But next week ought to be fun.

Or drive your grandfather to suicide, EOBARD. Though, maybe someone would have a reason to want to be a time remnant?

I think Stella was added specifically so that they could move Gabby back to the ambulance. Basically as long as Gabby was on Truck, the relationship with Casey was stuck in a perpetual stalemate. Either they break up and pine after each other, or they stay static and boring. But the show got a lot of praise for showcasing a female firefighter. That kind of representation is provably important when it comes to encouraging young girls in male-dominated fields. I figure they knew they were going to move Gabby back, and introduced Stella early. It bugs me a bit that Casey didn't tell Gabby about how things resolved with Susan, but then communication was never really his strong suit when looking pained and suffering in secret would work.

Rip did warn Martin off of attempting to abduct his baby self, but that's about it. He didn't seem to have any issue with Mick trying to talk sense into his younger self. Also, the same episode involved Rip using his OWN younger self as bait. So that sort of thing doesn't seem to be a very big concern for this version of time travel.

Rip has said that it takes time for timeline changes to settle. Likely the dog tags were an initial ripple. Nate didn't disappear because there was still time to repair it.

I think Stein being Jewish hasn't been forgotten by the show. It probably factored in on his emphatic desire to stop the bomb last episode, and may have added an additional layer of pressure to him this episode. It would perhaps explain why he was so tense under pressure this time, when we've seen him be strong-willed and decisive in the past.

It might also be worth noting that in the comics at least, Ray Palmer is Jewish. I haven't seen enough of Ray's appearances on Arrow to see whether the same is true of the television version. But that would add another layer to Ray's inability to even fake a Nazi salute.

I love Dinah Lance, but I'd rather not see Sara revert to being yet another variation on Dinah's theme. One of the best things about Legends is the way it gives the writers more of an opportunity to explore the parts of Sara that make her a unique and special character in her own right. I'm going to really enjoy seeing Sara as the leader (or co-leader, I'd imagine, when Rip comes back) of this crazy team of misfits. I really liked seeing the conflict between the JSA and the Legends, because well, the JSA aren't wrong. But that's what makes the Legends so much fun. I do feel bad for Martin, but I liked the acknowledgment that leading a team like the Legends is not as easy as it looks. Rip's had his ups and downs as a leader, not in the least of which being actually keeping any semblance of control over these people, but he was never indecisive and generally managed fairly well once the fighting started. The more I think about it, the more I think that a team co-led by Rip and Sara would be the best possible outcome. He's more inclined to long term strategy, organization, and has the technical expertise/knowledge. She's the better tactician, seems to have better control over the group, and far better interpersonal skills. It would make for a good balance. Assuming one or the other doesn't decide to abdicate rather than continue with the migraine of leading this crew. :-)

I think we're probably leaping to conclusions about Ray and romantic relationships. Last episode, Ray had significant interaction with Sara, this time with Vixen. And neither case really seems to have involved anything romantic. Besides, even if Vixen had been attracted to Ray, I'd expect Rex's death will be something of a turn off.

That was fun! (And I liked that the JSA didn't jump to immediately respecting the Legends at the end of the episode. The crew has proven their abilities, but they're still a bunch of crazy hotheads.) I'd figured Nate had a secret. In a way, I'm a bit sad that they've already given him superpowers. It would have been nice to have an actually disabled Legend for a bit. But I really liked his scenes with Commander Steel. As a Rip fan, I was happy that he was mentioned so often. And it was good to see him in the Hourman flashback. They have to justify his name in the credits somehow after all. But I do hope we get to see what happened to him soon. I do think he'd be happy to see that Sara was in charge when he's gone though. I don't think they're setting Mick up as a second. At brief glance, I'd guess either Ray or Jax. I'm hoping Jax. He did get the in depth technical experience and he gave Martin a lot of much needed advice.

I said this when Chilli was axed, and honestly, I think it's true now too: Boden, while a great character, is really inconsistent when it comes to his subordinates and discipline. I mean, okay, Jimmy was grieving and his behavior, particularly blaming Boden, was completely irrational and disruptive. But I also remember the pilot of Chicago Fire: in which we had Severide constantly lashing out at Casey for Andy's death both publicly and privately. The conflict that we saw on screen was incredibly one-sided. Casey occasionally snapped back, but mostly just took it. What did Boden do? He pulls both into the office, snaps at them to fix it. But there was never any threat of suspension or disciplinary action. Even when Severide started in on Mouch's mistake during a call. Nothing. Chili drinks on the job, admits to it, gets fired. But Severide can spend a good ten episodes higher than a kite, at one point on painkillers that Shay describes as being too much for Michael Jackson, while hiding an injury that, fortunately, never screwed up a rescue, but that was more luck than anything else. And again, no indication of any disciplinary consequences. I like Severide and I wouldn't want him to leave the show. But except for his demotion last season, which was portrayed as unfair and undeserved, he's never faced any professional consequences for mistakes that torpedoed these newer characters. I actually do like Stella though. But honestly, I think her staying power is going to be completely reliant on Dawson's storyline. As long as Dawson stays a paramedic, Stella will be fine. The show got a lot of praise for showing female firefighters alongside the men. I don't think they'll want to lose that. But if the Louie plot falls through, and Dawson ends up back on truck, I think Stella's days will be numbered. And we'll get character assassination 3.0.