[Wasted Talent: Shows That Never Lived Up To Their Potential]

The pilot had one cast of characters.  The rather annoying woman in the pilot was replaced by episode 2 with an actress I liked.  But then she was killed in the first season finale and I was done with the show even though I love Kevin Bacon.  I used to think he could get me to watch anything, and maybe he did since I stuck with the whole first season, but I couldn't stomache the idea of watching a sixteenth episode of that show.

 

I'd like to throw Smash in here.  The pilot was pretty good.  It had its issues but I thought they could be resolved.  And honestly, they could have been but the show, for the most part, chose not to.  It had some really good stuff and way too much dreck.

 

Perhaps Boardwalk Empire could be here too.  I really enjoy BE but one of the criticisms of the show is that never achieved the greatness that its actors and "look" were capable of achieving.  I can kind of agree with that, although I do think it has had enough great moments that I'd say it was better than good but probably not as agreat as it could have been.

[Devious Maids - General Discussion]

I missed it too.  When did they actually specify that Nicholas hit the Powells' son?  

 

There is NO excuse for predictability, so don't make one!

 

It's only predictable only if one can predict it.  If this is the big secret, it won't be a surprise to me because I read the speculation here and over at TWoP before it closed.  But would I have reached that conclusion if I hadn't read the spec?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  I can sometimes predict twists and other times I don't.  Would a general audience who doesn't spend much time thinking about the show beyond watching?  Probably not.  

 

I think I'm enjoying this season a little bit more than last season.  Last season was held together better by an overall murder mystery that affected everyone but there was no way the murder mystery resolution could live up to all that focus.  So I have more "fun" so-to-say watching multiple stories.  I miss Odessa but Carmen works better with less of a focus on how her employer can make her career work and instead having her employer expecting her to do real work.  I knew Rosie's beau was bad news as soon as the daughter mentioned not getting a statement for a few months and I look forward to that exploding.  Even if the mystery isn't interesting, I think Opal is.  And, as always, I love Zoila and Genevieve.  

[Bingeing Vs Watching Weekly]

I'm a binge watcher without the patience to be a binge water.  I would love to gobble down multiple episodes at a time.  I think it's easier for me to get into a show that way and once I'm into the show, I want to keep going.  That's what happened to me with Deadwood which I don't think I would've watched if it weren't for the fact that it was On Demand and I had a rainy lazy Sunday to kill. It's especially true with comedies.  US comedies are approximately 22 minutes long and can three can be watched in just over an hour.  They go down so smooth. 

 

But if it's a show I really want to watch, I am not going to wait until after it's aired so I can binge watch it all at once.  I want to see it "now" so I will watch it live, or within a few days of recording it.  The benefit to that is being able to discuss it online. 

 

Still, there are some shows out there that escape me initially for whatever reason and I love being able to just watch them all at once.  Heck, I binge watch shows I've already seen.  If I'm free and there's a L&O marathon on, I will watch.  Or when Scarecrow & Mrs. King was free on Prime, I would watch multiple episodes at at time.  Or rewatching Quantum Leap.  That's my comfort time.

[John Oliver: True Brit]

And he'll be on Seth Meyers tonight. 

[Louie - General Discussion]

Well yes, he is surrounded by "yes men."  And they're all named Louis C.K.

 

I understand wanting more comedy from someone as funny as Louis but I've never seen his show as about that.  It's one man's personal project that sometimes wants to make me laugh and other times wants to say something.  I'm not saying I'll always watch it or that everyone should be satisfied with it but that is what it has always been.  The only reason it get submitted into the "comedy" categories for awards was because of its length. 

 

I don't know that I'd rewatch this episode.  I enjoyed it for the performances.  Even though Mr. Hoffman was likely meant for PS Hoffman, I can't imagine anyone doing a better job than Seth.  Renner had just the right amount of sleaze.  Teen Louie was well acted, although I still prefer the younger Louie married to the younger Janet and it was good to see his mom again. 

 

I do think he was too easy on Jane, though. 

[S01.E09: A Fox, a Rabbit, and a Cabbage]

And why would Malvo be listening to the Lester recording?

 

 

I don't think he was.  It didn't sound like Lester and the scenario of the phone call, with a gun shot, didn't match Lester's phone call. I think it was some other poor sap whose life Malvo ruined through his "encouragement."  It was meant to show that Malvo hasn't changed even while stuck in KC, MO. 

 

 

So why doesn't Lorne shoot Lester in the elevator? What's the point to waiting to try to track him down at home?

 

 

Knowing Malvo, there are probably a few good answers to this.  It could be that he wanted to clean up the mess in the elevator and needed Lester's help for it.  He did ask Lester to help him move one of the bodies.  Another reason could be that he just wanted to play with Lester a bit for the fun of it.  Because honestly, that's the kind of guy Lorne is.

 

I thought this was another great episode.  There was so much tension in the episode from the elevator to the diner scene to Lester acting like a sitting duck in his own home.  It's just terrific. 

The only thing I wonder now is if some of the earlier storylines were just "side trips" and won't be revisited.

[The GoT Effect: Once Great Shows That Got So Bad They Sent You Into A Rage Spiral]

OMG yes to Nip/Tuck. When it stopped being case of the week itw as just another soap and got more and more far-fetched.

Why can't the writers ever just stick to procedurals?

With Grey's Anatomy, and this year even with Law & Order, they seem to think we won't care unless it's about the main character. WRONG. I don't want a movie in 12 parts. I want a one-hour story I can digest in the few hours I am done with work and not sleeping.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but neither Nip/Tuck or Grey's Anatomy were intended to be anything other than soap operas.  Nip/Tuck was a skillfully executed serial in its first two seasons with cases of the week peppered in and GA started with a one night stand.  I love procedurals too but I wouldn't look to Shonda Rhimes or Ryan Murphy shows to fill that hole since that's not what they do. Both of these creators start off with well done soap but soon can't help themselves and go over-the-top which is why it's so easy to sour on them.Nip/Tuck's demise was especially fast.

 

Dick Wolf does do procedurals.  With the exception of a few seasons in the middle, the original recipe L&O stuck pretty well to its procedural roots.  Heck, even when it incorporated more personal stories, it was heavily procedural.  SVU and CI strayed more from their procedural roots. 

[Louie - General Discussion]

All respect to those who saw nothing more than the simple black-and-white of a man not hearing that "no means no," but I saw something a little more complicated than that.

 

 

Sure that scene was complicated but what justification is there for Louie ignoring her "no" as he did?  Your basic argument is that Pamela has issues.  Fine.  Possibly.  But why do those potential issues rob her of the right to make choices for herself? Why do her reasons not matter unless they are good enough to the man chasing her?

 

I don't know why we're so sure that deep down Pamela wants to be with Louie.  With the exception of a fleeting invitation to have a bath with her and when she got back from France, after separating from her ex and kid, she really hasn't expressed much desire to be with him.  It has been mostly on Louie's end.  Heck, one could even argue that her attempt to get close to him this season may have come as sort of rebound for her.  Speaking of rebound, Louie's on the rebound and Pamela recognized it which may also be why she said no.

 

Pamela feeling scared to get involved, or thinking logically they work better as friends or not wanting to get involved with a man on the rebound, all of those are good enough reasons to not want to get involved with/kiss/sleep with Louie even if she were desperately in love with him.  Pamela not shaving her legs that night and not wanting to sleep with Louie because of it should be enough reason for Louie to hear her "no."  Cuz you know what?  Her body, her choice.

 

I think we all probably agree on one thing, which is that Louie would not rape her. Even as overcome as he was by his own need for connection, he wasn't so far gone as to take things beyond Pamela's limit.

 

 

Do I think Louie is going to rape Pamela?  No, I don't think Louie CK will take him there.  But then again, I never though I'd see Louie raped like he was last season.  And I didn't think I'd ever see the character push a woman screaming "no" towards his bedroom. I don't think he'll go there but is he fully capable of surprising us in service of a larger, non-continuous message?  Yes.

 

I think time will tell if she felt her limits were violated but I want to talk about Pamela's "consent" in that you're right, our views on it will be shaped by experience.  At that point, she was trapped.  Louie was telling her that he was in control.  Pamela had two choices there.  She could play it nice or fight him.  Fighting him wasn't working. So she "consented" to the kiss because she figured if she let him kiss her, he'd let her go.  And that's what happened.

 

I see it that way because I have been in similar situations.  I've been groped without my consent in bars.  Pushing the hand away just means another replaces it.  But grabbing the hand that was on my ass and sort of start "dancing" until I get get away?  That works better than any 'no' would.  I was once pursued by an older married man who was a client at work.  I had to keep turning him down.  He didn't respect my "no"  until I invented a boyfriend.  Then he backed off.

 

A majority of men respect a "no" but all it takes is a few to not respect it and/or for the rejection to lead to ugly consequences for someone to realize it might just be easier to think of a rejection that doesn't come off as a full rejection (fake significant others, fake numbers, turning an attempted kiss into a hug per LCK's stand up) than it is to have to deal with someone who won't respect a "not interested."  Unfortunately, who will take which approach is hard to determine.

 

*Pamela parts II and III are coming up so of course this could be written as a non-issue.   But that would disappoint me because it would mean that there were two episodes in two weeks where a woman was depicted as saying no but Louie persisted and was "right all along."  Just another in a long line of fictions where women just don't know what they want which means more fake boyfriends for me.

[The Annual Tony Awards - General Discussion]

I think a lot of the performances were great but the actual show... Hugh Jackman's hosting fell very flat. It was largely carried on the strength of his charm. No Emmy noms for the show or a song this year.

 

I was kind of surprised that the hosting was so flat.  I knew it'd be practically impossible to even come close to the opening number NPH put on last year so I don't blame them for not trying.  I don't think NPH himself could top what he did last year.  But I don't know that going with such an obscure concept was the smartest choice.  I can appreciate the athleticism but I thought it was boring.  At least the original "bounce" routine had more interesting things happen in it and was bounced better.

 

But the jokes and other musical interludes were equally meh.  So I gather Hugh must have different writers. 

[The End Is Here: Best And Worst TV Finales]

That would have been great, except that no one at L and O knew they were being cancelled.

True.  But even though L&O didn't know it'd definitely be the final episode, I think it worked pretty well for a final episode and final season with everyone coming together for Van Buren. I think the story would have been the same, except perhaps with a few more cameos, had they known it was the end.

[Louie - General Discussion]

With all the attention the last scene with Pamela is getting, I'm surprised there wasn't more attention for a similiar scene from last week's episode when Louie dragged an uninterested Amia into his apartment and forced himself on her until she finally responded in kind.  Like I said, Louie has been very rapey this season.

 

I brought that up elsewhere in  a discussion of last week's episode.  It was not received well by some other commenters.  I guess because Amia eventually reciprocated, it's okay.  It's "seduction" or "foreplay."  Now, obviously she gave in and I never claimed it was rape.  All I was saying was that I found it unsettling that Louie never let go of Amia, even when she was trying to leave.  It reinforces some really old fashioned stereotypes of "seduction" that I don't like very much at all. 

 

 I don't know if Louie meant for the scenes to be different or two shades of the same thing but clearly the recreation wasn't unintentional. Ultimately,  both "consented" although with Pamela, it was clearly against her wishes.  Giving in  was a way to get out and not make the situation uglier.  So I'm very interested where he takes this the rest of the season because there is some kind of theme going on, I just am not sure what it is.

[S01.E08: The Heap]

FYI, the reason Fargo and True Detective are submitted in different categories for awards is because that's how the respective networks chose to submit them.  HBO wanted to put up True Detective in the drama series categories because, despite the stiffer competition, the attention and publicity are greater for Drama Series rewards.  FX chooses to submit their anthology series American Horror Story and Fargo as miniseries because they'll have a greater chance of winning in those categories.

 

 

Right.  True Detective is probably HBO's best shot at some drama wins.  Boardwalk Empire is past its Emmy prime and Game of Thrones appears to be too genre-y.  I think only Peter D has a win. 

 

In the movies/mini-series category, HBO can throw its support behind The Normal Heart which I think will get plenty of acting nominations. 

 

I agree with the Martin Freeman praise.  The transformation was perfect and he did even out the accent which happens the more exposure to other accents someone gets.  But one thing I liked his his physicality in the way he was standing and talking.  I'm specifically thinking of the stance he had when Molly looked in the window into the insurance office.  It was just a small but great touch.

[Louie - General Discussion]

Please don't cave, Louie. Please. Do not cave.

At this point it's Pamela who I don't want to cave.

 

I'm kind of interested in seeing where this is going.  I didn't like last week's scene with Amia but having such a similar scene with Pamela makes me wonder if there is a larger theme at play here that won't end in justification for Louie's behavior.  The comedy bit he chose tonight makes me hopeful but we'll see.  I had higher hopes for the end of the Louie/Amia relationship but those never materialized. 

[John Oliver: True Brit]

John is scheduled to be on Letterman tomorrow night.

[S01.E05: Net Neutrality]

It's only been five episodes, but I really think this show and John Oliver already found their footing and their voice.  This is pretty impressive, and I hope HBO keeps this around.

 

 

John has proven himself to be a fast learner or adjuster.  It only took him about a week (4 shows) as the anchor at TDS to find his groove there and each LWT show seems to improve.

 

I absolutely love this show and I wonder if HBO will ever add another night.

 

The net neutrality thing was brilliant and I love how it just built to Oliver "unleashing the monsters."  Just a thing of beauty.

[The End Is Here: Best And Worst TV Finales]

I love Newhart's as well.  It may have been somewhat done once before, but the nostalgic twist definitely added something unique. 

 

A finale that probably isn't one that is at the top of many people's lists because the sitcom in general kind of got lost in NBC's plethora of celebrated Thursday night comedies but I'd nominate Wings for "Best finale."  I can't think of a comedy that introduced a theme/thesis in its pilot, went through 7/8 seasons and was able to come back to it and stick the landing quite in the way Wings did. 

 

For those who don't remember, or didn't watch, the pilot was about two very opposite, and somewhat antagonistic, brothers coming together after their father died in order to hunt for a "treasure" they believe was left to them. They're both pilots and the older brother owns a small airline. After they find the money, the plan was to part ways again.  At the end of the treasure hunt, instead of money, they find a note that basically implies that true richness is family.  By that time, the brother who was going to leave had decided to stay. 

 

Fast forward to eight seasons later, the idea of a "treasure" is brought back up and it turns out there really was money for the brothers. Initially, the younger brother plans on going to the tropical island he wanted to go to in the pilot.  The older brother's wife, a cellist, is given an opportunity to go to Vienna to play and/or study for a year.  She had spent eight seasons trying to make it and this was her big break.  The older brother decides that he has to sell his airline because he was able to live his dream of owning an airline, it was time for them to go to Europe so his wife could live hers.  The younger brother decides to delay his tropical island dream for a year so his older brother doesn't have to sell the airline in order to support his wife. 

 

So yeah, family did end up being the most important thing.  And as an aside, I can't tell you how much I loved that the happy ending for the female lead wasn't a baby but rather a career goal.

 

For all the great Thursday night comedies, none come anywhere near to satisfying me as much as the Wings finale does.  I think the closest is actually Seinfeld because it was so bizarre.  It's just the execution wasn't as sharp as it could have been.

 

HIMYM is the opposite of Wings.  It tried to go back to its early premise even though the show had completely moved beyond it.  At some point I knew I was wasting my time watching HIMYM in the latter seasons but I hoped the finale could bring it home.  Instead, it literally turned out to be a waste of time.

 

Dexter--oof.  Another one where I should have stopped watching earlier than I did.  When will I learn that bad seasons likely will mean bad finales?
 

 

Quantum Leap's finale made me desperately sad (and still does) but I'm not sure it wasn't fitting in a strange way. As another poster mentioned though I wish they'd left it ambiguous, then the optimist in me could 'fix' it.

 

 

Right. I don't know if it's because I'm a contrarian but for some reason I can accept this finale even if it leaves me feeling sad. 

The Sopranos finale is another one I kind of liked. 

[The Normal Heart (HBO)]

Thanks. I can't disagree with any of your evidence. (Even if, for me, the mere fact of Ruffalo's being a movie star automatically conferred "hero" status on the character that didn't quite jibe with the character's actions.)

 

I find that interesting because I didn't get that vibe at all. He was the protagonist, for sure, but I think there were a lot of heroes in this show. 

 

But then again, it depends on how you define "movie star."  I think the only person in this movie whose "movie star" status interfered a bit with the story, even though I thought she was good in her role, was Julia Roberts.  Love her or hate her, she is a movie star.  I've always just seen Mark Ruffalo as a guy who just happens to make his career in movies.   I know he plays the Hulk in super hero movies but for the most part, he's supporting (as he mostly is in those movies) or leading in indies.  I think the percentage of people who could recognize him off the bat is much much lower than Julia Roberts. Hell, I'd bet more people could recognize/identify Jim Parsons than could recognize Ruffalo.  Now, I'm sure Ruffalo's casting may have helped get this film made but it wasn't on the level of Matt Damon or Michael Douglas for Behind the Candelabra.  

 

 

Ryan White, too, even though it was a few years later.

 

 

Ryan White and Elizabeth Glaser were likely the duo that started to scare America.  They were seen as "blameless" in that they weren't doing drugs or weren't homosexuals.  It's sad but it's not uncommon for people to start caring once they see themselves in the victims.  And then Magicc Johnson did a lot in basically dispelling the safety net of that asshole in the White House who was interrogating Ned about men not being able to get it from women.

[Looking - General Discussion]

Yeah, I think you bring up some of the problems with being on a "Team" in this love triangle.  I like to watch all three characters but I think Richie is the one I like because he's pretty purely awesome.  Patrick, I like because I think his struggle is interesting and he can be sweet but I think his classicism is unattractive.  And Kevin is so charming but I have taken issue with how he has behaved as a boss.

 

I think my hopes are that next season Richie is allowed to date other people while Patrick & Kevin go through the messy relationship they're about to go through.  Then I'll decide if I want a Richie/Patrick reunion.  Ultimately, I think I would because I love watching them together but not if nothing changes.

[Looking - General Discussion]

This might be a good place to keep up with the cast as they start production later this summer.

 

Lauren Weedman was nominated for "Best Guest Actress in a Comedy Series" by the Critics' Choice Awards.

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/546029/breaking-bad-true-detective-game-of-thrones-and-more-lead-2014-critics-choice-tv-noms

 

 

[The Normal Heart (HBO)]

get that this is what happened in the film (it's the basic plot line, after all), but did you believe from Ruffalo's performance that this would happen?

 

 

As you said, it's the general plot line.  The performance could have been shriller, I guess.  In many of his interviews, Ruffalo was careful to point out that his interpretation of the material was that it was all out of love and the love did lead his performance.  I haven't seen other performances.  There is definitely room to play up the more "bad" aspects of Ned's personality compared to the more "palatable" aspects and still give an equally compelling, perhaps even moreso, performance. 

 

However, I didn't think Mark's approach undercut the writing or the denouement of the Gay Men's Health Crisis aspect of movie at all.  Some of the reasons they parted ways with Weeks were due to his personality.  But most of the reasons listed were directly related to specific actions he took on behalf of the GMHC.  His tendency for public outrage didn't seem to mesh with the rest of the board.  Bringing camera crews to the site without warning, regardless of the wishes of the closeted president, could definitely earn antipathy even if it wasn't done in anger but rather out of a true belief that he was doing the right thing.  That's where the arrogance comes in. Arrogance can be loud or quiet and I think Mark played both.

 

So personally, the performance absolutely did work for me and I believed the story because it rang true.  They started out with the same goal but as the GMHC started to evolve as an organization, the rifts in their approach, heck even their philosophies, led to a split.  Kramer went on to form Act Up where he was able to focus on his true passion of advocacy, or "fighting for the living." And Act Up eventually evolved too and TAG split off from it when their approach to tackling the search for the cure didn't completely align with Act Up any longer.

[The GoT Effect: Once Great Shows That Got So Bad They Sent You Into A Rage Spiral]

Heroes, though IMO it was never great.  It was very good and had tremendous potential, but I distinctly remember (1) being blown away that they would name November - the election - as being their first big milestone and then (2) that initial sense of dread I felt when the writers then made interview comments about how they might stretch out show time so "November" wouldn't actually happen in November.

 

 

I agree.  Glee is in this category for me too.  For the first half of the first season, it worked.  But then it stopped working.

 

But when it comes to "so much untapped potential" hate-watching, I'd like to submit Smash.  Smash's had issues, even in its pilot.  But the pilot, overall, was enjoyable and held a lot of promise.  So the hope was that once they went into production, they'd highlight the good and tone down the bad.  They didn't.  They doubled down on the bad.  And when they got a second season, I had hoped they'd listen to the critics and criticisms to correct their mistakes.  Instead, they quadrupled their bad quotient. 

 

But the character of Ivy was awesome so I watched...but I hate watched. 

 

I agree with so many already mentioned but I think I might put The West Wing in here.  The first Sorkin-less season, the fifth, was so miserably awful and dreary that I was very mad...and sad.  The fact that it somehow pulled itself back up and morphed into something I looked forward to watching in its seventh season is something of a miracle but that doesn't change how I feel about the fifth season. 

[S01.E01: Gen. Keith Alexander]

Frex, what if, during the Sarah Palin interview, Katie Couric had actually been able to say, "Are you fucking kidding me?  ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?"

 

 

The interview would have been over.  It may be cathartic to say "F you" but by slyly getting the interviewee to just keep talking...and talking...and talking, you start getting some horrifying "real" talk.  When you react and treat them like the joke they eventually become, someone ends the interview and you get nowhere. 

 

I really liked the show.  It may be like a weekend version of the Daily Show right now but I'm okay with that. I thought he was terrific as TDS host and I suspect the show will evolve as he gets more comfortable. It took him a week to fully settle into TDS hosting role and I suspect it'll take him a couple of shows here as well.

[Late Night With Seth Meyers - General Discussion]

I think he did a pretty good job hosting the ESPYs.  He also writes for Tina & Amy when they host the Globes.

 

I think he'll be fine.

[The Late Late Show With Craig Ferguson - General Discussion]

I hate this.  He was the one interviewer I always thought was worth watching.  I'll miss having him daily. 

 

If Chelsea Handler replaces him, I'll weep.  I want to support a female or POC late night person but she annoys me.

[S01.E01: Minimum Viable]

I really don't get the whole "oh another show about dudes" arguments though. HBOs got 4 half hour comedys now and of the other 3 only one is a male fronted show and thats Louie. And everyone loves Louie

 

I don't separate out comedies and dramas since I pretty much watch both genres.  The "another show about dudes" argument comes in when shows about men, showcasing men, run by men dominate television.  The discrepency is even worse when it comes to premium cable.  Even when women are the stars of a show, it's not unusual for a majority of the main cast be male.

I won't outright reject a show because it's men-centric.  I love Louie (although as Tara pointed out, it's on FX).  I also love Looking which, because of its subject matter, is very male focused. 

My point with Silicon Valley is that it's not like I need another super-male show in my life.  If I had enjoyed the pilot, I'd watch it but the gender imbalance makes me wonder if I really want to put out the effort just so I can have another male-centric show in my lineup.