stagmania
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Posts posted by stagmania
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1 hour ago, Stallion12 said:
Honestly, if true that's the best one yet, though I hope they'd explain why the golden company turned.
Their contract is with Euron, not Cersei (a crucial mistake that Cersei made that I've been expecting to matter). Once he's dead, the contract is void and they're free to do whatever they want.
37 minutes ago, Indi said:Someone at r/freefolk is claiming they saw a clip and the Dothraki raping really happens, but it looks like Dani didn't order that. I really want to believe that.
Can't really say this is out of character, but I can say it's gratuitous and problematic for the show to go back to this well in the context of how they've treated the POC characters this season. First they wipe out nearly all of the Dothraki, then they fridge their only black woman character, then they have the surviving Dothraki go savage raping and pillaging the white folk.
13 minutes ago, Eyes High said:I find "Fuck this 'surrender' crap, I'm not falling for that shit" much more believable than "The infernal sound of the bells is triggering my madness!!!!" as a motivation for Dany.
I do think the bells will be important, judging from that 8x05 promo shot of them.
Definitely much more believable, and if it's augmented by Dany unwittingly activating wildfire traps laid by Cersei and doing even more damage than she intends, that's a much better set up for people to perceive her as the Mad Queen, rather than trying to convince us she's actually gone mad.
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7 hours ago, Chiny11 said:
The end of the episode is Jon and Dany on Dragonstone, this is the scene from the trailer. She says there is something she needs to tell him, she turns holding her stomach, he guesses she is pregnant, she says I didn't want to believe so had to be sure, he then says 'you know, Tyrion thinks you are going mad just like your father' Dany's face changes from joy to disgust.. episode ends."
Link https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bmmryu/real_leaks_for_ep_5_from_embargo_good_source/
2 hours ago, Dame sans merci said:Cersei is just...crushed by a building?
Arya just...leaves without achieving anything in the city at all?
The (f)leakers are definitely just fucking with us now.
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2 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:
Didn’t Jaqen use Arya’s face?
Hmm I think you’re right. 🤔
Why am I bothering to think about this, they’re just gonna do whatever they want.
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To clarify: I think it’s extremely unlikely they would kill Jaime Lannister off screen and I think if they did fans would riot.
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2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:
Still, I've never been all that clear on how the whole faces thing works.
The one thing they have shown us pretty clearly is that they harvest the faces off dead bodies. We’ve never seen Arya or any Faceless Man wearing the face of someone alive. So this would require either violating that or Arya killing Jaime off screen for the sake of this twist which feels extremely unlikely.
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New leaks read like spoiler-informed spec to me. The Arya thing would be a violation of what we know about how the faces work, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it can’t happen (not like they care about being consistent on this stuff). And since when can Bran just randomly use magic to do whatever he wants?
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11 minutes ago, rmontro said:
GRRM hasn't exactly been complimentary on the way D&D have been finishing Game of Thrones. Passive aggressive is a good way to put it. I don't hold him blameless by any means, because this "bittersweet" (read: disastrous, devastating, and depressing) ending is his idea. However, I have no doubt that his writing of it would make more sense instead of making us feel like we've been punked. But then again, maybe he should write the ending to his own book.
I think a key point we haven’t mentioned is that writers often change their stories in the course of writing them, because they realize something in their vision doesn’t work and make adjustments until it all comes together. We know that GRRM has changed his original outline more than once. If he has been struggling to get to his ending for this long, there’s a reason - probably because it’s not the right ending. And he seems to have given up on trying to write through it, so he’ll probably never figure it out.
I have no inclination to let D&D off the hook for tacking on his final imagined plot points if it doesn’t make sense or end the story satisfactorily. That’s not smart writing or smart adapting.
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4 hours ago, BitterApple said:
Jon killing Dany and resigning himself to the Wall while the Three-Eyed Hamster sits on the Throne, basically renders their journeys meaningless.
One of the most frustrating aspects of this ending to me is that who Jon is matters not a bit. You could have this exact same plot if he was just Ned's legitimized bastard. Why make his identity the central mystery and biggest reveal of the story if it didn't matter?
2 hours ago, Minneapple said:If you look to just two weeks ago everyone was raving about 8x02 and how it was one of the best episodes of the series. Now people are trashing all of season 8 as if it's the worst thing on television.
That tends to happen when you build to a huge, story-defining event for a decade and then don't stick the landing. And the spoilers make it sound like they're not going to stick many, if any, of the landings for these characters. Of course people are upset - in previous seasons, there was always the possibility that things could be fixed. But this is the end.
2 hours ago, ursula said:There was no narrative reason for Sansa's treatment because it never made sense. Littlefinger would not have handed her over to Lannister allies after he smuggled her out of King's Landing and away from the Lannisters and was keeping her hidden. (In the books, she literally takes on another identity in the Vale because keeping her existence a secret is that important).
Sidebar: I was listening to one of the GoT podcasts (A Storm of Spoilers, I think) and they pointed out that the reason later seasons Sansa is such a favorite of the showrunners is that she's entirely their creation in a way the other characters aren't. They completely changed her trajectory from the books and made her much more central. I wouldn't necessarily expect her show ending to match her fate in the books.
1 hour ago, Eyes High said:TV Jon is just a well-meaning galoot getting outshone, outfought and outfoxed by stronger characters at this point.
I really get bummed out when I think of what they've done to Jon. They took one of the core heroes of the story and made him a blank space who's basically just there to brood and be the butt of short jokes.
1 hour ago, GraceK said:I think they are. I just don’t think Jon is involved. I’m pretty sure Arya is on the way to kill Cersei, while Sansa is plotting to take down Dany.
One theory is that we didn't see the Sansa/Arya reaction to Jon's parentage reveal because it's part of a scene they'll reveal later that will show us the sisters scheming together to put Jon on the throne. Which would explain why we also got no scene of Arya explaining she was leaving or saying goodbye to anyone.
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24 minutes ago, Night Person said:
Jamie’s actions, for example, make zero sense if the leaks are correct. They have been building up his redemption and his relationship with Brienne for several seasons. He left Cersei because she broke her word. Everything he has done in KL indicates that he has changed. Now he is going back to her only after he hears reports of more atrocities? It feels like his actions are designed simply to surprise the audience because they think he was headed in a different direction.
I actually think Jaime's ending (assuming spoilers are right and he goes back to die with Cersei) is fitting and right for his character. The problem, as with most things this season, is that the arc is super rushed and they haven't taken the time to set it up properly.
His redemption as portrayed on the show has always been pretty shaky, with his relationship with Brienne being the only real outlet for his better impulses. He stayed with Cersei after she blew up the sept, after she pushed their last child to suicide. He seized Highgarden and executed Lady Olenna for her. As Tyrion said, he has always known what she is and he has always loved her anyway. It makes sense that his attempt to break away from her and convince himself he could be with someone else would ultimately fail. But they had it all happen in the space of two episodes, and so it rings false.
1 minute ago, nikma said:The context is she was not focused on her enemies in the south the way they were on her.
That's not context, that's just restating the same thing they said in a different way. And it still makes no sense and contradicts what we saw in a different scene.
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Dany looks depressed and it seems liker her hair is partially undone.
Seems to line up with the new leaker's claims.
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9 hours ago, GraceK said:
I have no idea if they are true 🤷🏻♀️ But then again, so much is leaking they have as much of a chance as anything else.
I don't think these new leaks are any worse or less plausible than the others. Frankly, Cersei trying to make everyone believe Dany burned the whole city and people getting the mistaken impression that she's the mad queen makes more sense than Dany suddenly snapping. Are people mocking it just because it ends on a nice note (presumably only until the next ep) for Jon and Dany?
8 hours ago, MrsR said:It's a crappy translation and I suspect it came from the music editing department in some country.
On another site, someone is suspecting it's Cersei who was triggered by the bells. SHAME SHAME
This would make a lot more sense and getting the two confused is an easy mistake to make in translation.
2 hours ago, Eyes High said:Although I was thinking about Walter White, his downfall was a steady and slow erosion of his morals and a downward spiral that was clearly and carefully telegraphed: he started off killing out of self-defence and moved on to increasingly ruthless and less justifiable actions that weren't treated as heroic or justifiable. With Dany, while there were red flags, she pretty much got the hero edit, even when she was doing incredibly ruthless things, until the eleventh hour.
Walter White's carefully plotted arc is a great example of how this would have needed to work if they wanted to audience to buy Dany ending like this.
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I assume the truth is some version of all these leaks combined. It’s going to be awful.
I can’t stop laughing over the idea of Dany going mad at the sound of bells. Sure, why not!
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6 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:
Good points. Question....has Jon ever told Dany he loved her on screen?
Nope. She has said it a couple times but he hasn't reciprocated. He'll probably say it as he stabs her in the heart.
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11 hours ago, chrisvee said:
Huh. I think he was starting to live his best life with Brienne when Sansa and that scroll reminded him that he’s done loathsome things for which he needs to atone.
If they wanted to convey this with Jaime, I think we would have seen him look happy after sleeping with Brienne. We didn’t. Instead, we saw him get drunk, awkwardly sleep with her, look conflicted and down after, and then run back to die with Cersei at the first excuse, telling Brienne the truth - that he and Cersei are two of a kind and he belongs with her.
As a fan of Brienne, I wish this relationship had climaxed with the knighting scene. Instead, she became the final stumbling block on Jaime’s journey back to Cersei, reduced to weeping in the courtyard in her housecoat.
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5 hours ago, anamika said:
So if these spoilers are right
then Jon's character is simply the worst. They would have destroyed him.
At this point I’m assuming they’re right, with maybe a few details off. This post got everything for episode 4 correct, with the exception of Jaime betraying the north. And it’s totally possible that happened and won’t be revealed until episode 5 (I.e. we find out he sent a scroll to warn Cersei to flee and that’s why Dany got ambushed).
And I agree, this ending would be dreadful. I sincerely hope at least a few things here are misinterpretations, or there’s key episode 6 info missing that would change it. That other leaker who works on the show is still claiming no major ep 6 info is out, so this person could get ep 5 right but miss the mark on the finale.
ETA: @ElizaD I completely agree. Bran is much more important (and better written) in the books, so it’s plausible to me that GRRM would end the story with him. But it just underscores what a poor adaptation this is that D&D didn’t bother to get Bran or any of the magical elements right when it was so consequential.
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21 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:
Here is a very concrete Information from the new leaker regarding 8x5:
Question: Who is the guy standing next to Tyrion in episode 5 preview in Dragonstone Throne Room?
Answer from leaker: Gendry. They’re talking about Valyrian steel armour. Gendry will have dragonfire to make Valyrian steel and will make armour for Drogon.
If this is true, the information could very well be credible.
And he has added that none of Jon's possible endings do his arc justice, and that the potential Jon kills Dany ending is not justified. Only one possible ending he is aware of would redeem Dany and leave her in a good place, and seems unlikely to be the one.
Mostly what I'm taking from this is to keep my expectations firmly in the gutter. 🙂
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If this leaker is legit, the most telling things they're saying are extremely vague, but unsurprising:
- No major ep 6 scenes have yet leaked
- "It’s awful how they wrote the strong women."
- "If you think this has a happy ending you haven’t been paying attention."
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42 minutes ago, benteen said:
They've definitely shown hints of Dany's dark side and it's always been apparent that she doesn't like to be questioned or challenged.
Which is true for every single leader we've seen portrayed on this show, except for maybe weak little kitten Tommen.
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4 hours ago, anamika said:
Jon should have died with his ADwD book story and it would have actually been a bold move if D&D had stuck with it. Ultimately R+L=J, Ice and fire, PTWP - all of that meant nothing and Jon's parentage is all about Dany, Sansa's hate for her and the fucking Tarlys.
I'm still holding out a tiny sliver of hope that Jon's arc will come to fruition, but as things stand right now, this is unfortunately correct.
1 hour ago, Couver said:It can't be said enough. Dany should have listened to Olenna from the start. No point in deviating from her nature when she is the villain either way. If she'd taken a strong front as she landed on the continent she would likely still have all her children and her better advisors (Olenna, Yara, Elaria). Instead of the two faced men she's stuck with now who are clearly leading her to destruction.
That's what I find so dissonant about this storyline. They're trying to tell us that Dany is a bad queen because she disagrees with the "wisdom" of these men, but at every turn we've seen that Dany was right and they were very wrong.
1 hour ago, nikma said:Good post from WOTW
Had there been no books to go by, ‘The Rains Of Castamere’ would have been universally panned. I’m convinced of it. The fact that this episode is so lowly rated is proof of it, IMO. This amount of hate isn’t because of fans feeling like the Euron ambush didn’t make sense and that they should have been aware of him. Or that Cersei should have just killed Dany outside of the gates. Those are reasonable criticisms. But logistical stuff doesn’t drive the majority of fans nuts.
The hate is because of the direction of Dany’s character and where it is headed. The book stans refuse to believe this is straight out of George’s mouth to D&D’s ears. It’s amazing.
And I’m not knocking legitimate criticisms. I’m just claiming that those wouldn’t drive thousands of people to rate it a 1 out of 10. This episode was far better than any episode in season 7, and IMO , the best this season. For it to be regarded as the worst in the show’s history is insane.
I’ll predict next week will probably be rated lower, because some truly crazy Red Wedding-esque shit is about to go down.This is a weird way to frame the issue, which is not that there's no book to read as a supplement, but that D&D have not written their show to properly set up this storyline. Lots of non-book readers LOVED The Rains of Castemere, because they set it up properly and it made sense whether you had read the books or not. Which is how it is supposed to work.
40 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:I'm annoyed that it looks that this show that was all about girl power is going to end up with a council run by men.
I've always thought the feminism on this show was shallow and insincere, and this ending is showing us how true that is.
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"We’re used to having a whole season to get to a point. Now suddenly, a lot of things happen very quickly.” - Nikolaj Coster Waldau on the Jaime/Brienne story.
Pretty sad that the cast has to say stuff like this to explain the bad plotting.
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8 hours ago, Glaze Crazy said:
I also get Sansa's desire to put the North first because it's her home, traditions and ancestry. She's also not wrong or conniving in the bigger picture, just focused on different concerns for the people she feels responsible for. She also knows Cersei so she should be a little more accommodating to Danerys in her task of getting rid of that viper once and for all. I do think that spilling Jon's "secret" to Tyrion might come back to bite her once this is over. I don't think he wants the Iron Throne and won't be pressured into it either. I could see it driving him away from his family in the end.
Sansa has been so inconsistent on Cersei, it's maddening. Every other week she's changing her mind about whether people are stupid to leave her in the South or stupid to go after her. This whiplash has been present in pretty much all her opinions all season, which is what lends the impression that she just wants to bitch at everyone and feel superior.
8 hours ago, I-Kare said:I'm honestly surprised a lot of folks seemed to have viewed the Jaime/Brienne scene so differently than I did. I thought it was obvious that he was intentionally pushing her away so that she didn't try to go with him or follow him, so he could go do what he thinks he has to do: go kill Cersei. Everything up to that point pointed toward that being the reality of the scene, at least to me.
I'm not sure we did view it differently, but that is one of the most cliched tropes in romance writing and I absolutely hate it. Combine that with Brienne suddenly turning into a weeping widow and the scene was infuriating.
7 hours ago, polyhymnia said:Ugh. No way they have the resources or the ability to build that many ballista let alone mount them on Urine's ship let alone make them strong enough to tear through the other ships like paper. That was so friggin unbelievable that it took me out of the episode.
That drove me absolutely nuts. They're giving Euron the Ramsey super powers.
6 hours ago, rmontro said:But for seven seasons they've told us Daenerys was the Breaker of Chains, and was a tough but fair ruler. They've spent all that time getting me on her side, as she overcame multiple odds. Only now at the last hour to give us Crazy Daenerys and have all the characters tell us over and over she's going to be a lousy queen. Her character deserved better than that.
4 hours ago, MadMouse said:If this is an attempt at a Mad Queen turn for Dany I'm not buying it all. You can try but she's been completely right about everything since landing in Westeros with the exception of believing in WW. Everytime she's listened to someone else she's suffered a defeat or lost someone dear to her.
I completely agree with both of you and I think it's the common sentiment from fans after last night's episode. People are not buying this sudden push into the Mad Queen ending, and the plot machinations to get her there are too obvious and sloppy. If they wanted us to think Varys and Tyrion's treason talk was justified, they needed to show her refusing to listen or being wrong in her assessment of the situation even once this season. They seem to be hanging this entire thing on the Tarlys, and it's just too weak a justification.
6 hours ago, Andromeda said:I have always admired Varys' desire to stand up for the little people, but how is thrusting the realm into yet another civil war any way to do that (Jon vs. Dany)? And saying they shouldn't wed because she's stronger than Jon? That tells me Varys prefers a ruler he can manipulate.
I also don't care for the idea that Dany is too...what? mean? unstable? Neither is true. Unable to be manipulated by Tyrion or Varys? I'll buy that. I really does smack of sexism in many ways -- she's a GIRL, we have to prefer the guy over the girl for the top job. Blech.
You nailed it. I've always thought Varys told himself he was doing what he does for the realm, but ultimately he has a power fetish and he wants to be in control. He can't manipulate Dany, therefore he's decided she's a bad ruler. It's extremely transparent.
6 hours ago, tv-talk said:Unforgivable they didnt have a SINGLE WORD spoken between Jon, Sansa, and Arya after Bran revealed the lineage. That should have been one of best scenes in the entire series, the remaining Starks struggling with geopolitical tensions while wanting to be family and it turns out one of them is King of the whole damn world- don't even see their faces when they find out. Awful and reminds me of why it's such a shame the show superseded the books.
[snip]
So why does she instead plant a slow working poison into bloodstream of the very force headed to take out Cersei! She could have crippled Dany in the North and maybe won control of situation, instead she increased likelihood her own people would be slaughtered at KL. Is there an unseen motivation here or does it simply not make any sense?
I have barely even processed that we didn't get to see any reaction from Sansa and Arya about Jon's parentage. The biggest secret in the realm and in their family, and nothing. And your second point just underlines that Sansa is really not a brilliant strategist like the show keeps telling us she is.
5 hours ago, ImpinAintEasy said:I’m probably never going to get to read the ending in the books, but I do believe, thematically, the final 3 episodes will be George’s ending. It’s just a shame how they fucked up most of the characters by the time they reached this point.
The problem is that the show wrote the characters and the story differently from the books for 7.5 seasons, and now they appear to be trying to tack on GRRM's ending without having done the work to get there. It's malpractice.
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Good lord the sexist bullshit was rampant in this episode. Brienne has sex once and becomes a woman who begs after a man, Sansa is happy she went through rape and torture and manipulation because it made her Strong, Dany is a bad queen because she *gasp* expects people to respect her and recognize her authority. Just seriously ridiculous shit so obviously written by men.
And if they expect me to get on board with team betray Danaerys they’re going about it all wrong. Girlfriend lost her army, lost her dragons, lost her two best friends to protect these people. She listened to the counsel of her advisors every time. And what does she get for it? Nothing but disrespect, distrust, treason and more losses. I’m officially on her side.
And Missandei, poor Missandei. Used as a plot device to kick off a Mad Dany plot. She deserved so much better.
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4 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:
But really, the Starks are the assholes for not considering Dany one of them when Dany is willing to screw their brother over and to let her own brother be remembered as a rapist. What a wonderful sister, aunt and lover she turned out to be.
What does one have to do with the other? The Stark siblings don’t know anything about Dany and Jon’s conversation. And Jon doesn’t want to be King, so it doesn’t really hurt him to keep this secret quiet. Given that Sam, Bran and Sansa are the ones that spill the beans to others, they seem to be the ones who are acting without regard to his feelings on the matter.
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Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion
in Game Of Thrones
Jaime kills Euron?? What the hell, why?