econ07

Not sure if someone said this above, but I'm assuming the torsos came from the town not realizing a head-shot would take them down. The next best thing to a head shot is making them immobile, which requires taking off all the limbs. So maybe utilitarian and not some sicko. Tyreese must not have watched any cop shows. You always clear the house and secure entry-points before relaxing. Come on dude.

Wait ... we both slept with "people?" lmao Sounds like Joel had no idea what Julia was doing while he was soul-searching.

With Kristina's look on her face, I thought she was about to go all Rambo on Jasmine for intervening.

My last words on the Julia-Joel topic. First, I appreciate all dissenting opinions for their thoughtfulness, insight, and civility. I also appreciate those who agree as I believed mine to be a unique view and I'm glad there are some others out there to verify that I am not entirely off my rocker (at least on this opinion). Also, Cattitude, well said above. I was touched by your words and the sacrifices you have made when your husband is away. I'll refrain from quoting due to length. My perspective is somewhat biased as the father of an autistic child. It is a daily battle of trying to serve your child and at the same time prepare your child for the world. I think Parenthood got it right in the early seasons, just demonstrating how constant the battle is ... but then went astray more and more as Max was provided with zero discipline. Parents who care about their autistic child will tell you, you have to establish consequences (revoking privileges, taking toys away, etc.), and it is a constant battle to find the right balance of grace and punishment, knowing that you will make many mistakes. Given this perspective, I see strong similarities between the way Max is treated by his parents and Julia is treated by her family. Not surprisingly, I see strong similarities with how they function in life as well, doing what they want based on impulse rather than considering the needs of those around them. To me, it was never about the sex. That was just symptomatic and demonstrative of her desire for self-gratification. It was Julia's insensitivity to Joel having to not just re-enter the work force after years away, but do so as the sole provider. He did so willingly without complaining, and had to put in many long hours, as anyone would in that situation, only to hear the constant complaining of his wife. She is a strong women for goodness sake ... I think she had it within her to contemplate the reality, Joel would have to put in many hours restarting his career, and needs support instead of criticism. Then, when he tried to communicate that, she starts spending time with divorced dad. Both Max and Julia live most of their lives seeing how those around them can meet their needs. They both need loving parents who will sit them down and be truthful with them, tell them how they messed up, and to seek forgiveness. That last episode, I think Max was the only one of the two to do so ... to ask forgiveness. Thanks again all for the interesting discussion. I enjoyed being a part of it.

Hopefully I'm not the one being accused of slut shaming? I'd say the same about a guy acting like Julia (and I've been happily married close to 20 years). Anyway, I think Julia's kiss was different than the others not due to gender, but by her own admission. When talking with Adam (I think) about his being kissed, he was clear with Julia that he backed off and told his wife right away. Julia then kind of looked down and they shared a look that let Adam know that it was mutually initiated by Julia and Ed. The writers painted the picture, not me ... and I'm surprised they have never addressed it. As soon as Joel moved out, she was back over at Ed's house ... just her without the kids. Here her husband is obviously wounded, and instead of showing any remorse or contrition, she is hanging out with other guys. I don't care if she is having sex and I'm not calling her a slut ... just saying that she is exercising zero self-examination and trying to satisfy her own immediate needs, the hallmark traits of a young child before developing maturity. The biggest slut in this show was Crosby, when he slept with the therapist after one fight, and then rightfully got kicked to the curb. I cheered for Jasmine (her name?) then and I cheered for Joel when he had to take drastic measures to get through to Julia. Julia could have thought, "Wow, I must have really hurt him to have forced him to move out ... let me figure out what that is about." Instead, she acted like the dog from "Up" .... "My husband just left out the front do ... hey, wonder if Ed is home!"

Wasn't Julia the one who wanted to give back their son, and Joel was the one to preach unconditional love and seeing their son through the hard times. I think that is representative of how their characters have been developed. Julia looks for immediate satisfaction and getting rid of uncomfortable situations ... Joel stands true and serves. I think Joel reacted in the only way he felt might get through to Julia's selfishness. He left her. I see Julia as the one who was constantly blowing up the family, spending time with other dudes when every single one of her needs wasn't met. Unfortunately, Joel's hurt didn't get through to her as while he was trying to make sense of things and help Crosby redo his floors (still serving), Julia was completely focused on herself, amping up the dating, and not reflecting at all on her role. I sincerely hope they reconcile, and then start running into all the dudes she slept with after he moved out ... just to make it real clear to Joel how little she was anticipating his return.

Krause and cast were great in Sports Night as well, a show that ended way too early. I'm still amazed at the Joel hate. If he had cheated, most people would think nothing of the wife throwing the husband out of the house. In this case, maybe he should have done the same thing ... thrown Julia out and tell her to come back once she can be trusted. Instead, he put her needs above his and allowed her to stay in the house while he left. That seems pretty noble to me. For those who say he stayed away too long, when should he have returned? ... when Julia was going back to the divorced father instead of spending time thinking about how she had hurt Joel? .... when Julia was sleeping with SnowFlake Academy teacher dude to satiate her physical longings instead of getting counseling regarding why she couldn't emotionally support her husband? .... when she had a relationship with a lawyer in her firm .... when would Julia have been emotionally available to get rid of the selfishness and put Joel's needs in front of her own like he had done for her so many times? Can someone answer that? ... and where are the parents? saying ..."Julia hon, you shouldn't have schtooped all those dudes .... you should have been thinking about how you hurt your husband." Joel ... run as far as you can dude! Don't look back at the Braverman mushroom cloud!

Same reason you look at a car wreck on the side of the road

I thought Bob had been bitten. But then I thought that these termites were pretty efficient cannibals. Didn't they have a process of checking for bites and/or walkerfication before having someone for dinner? I think they would have thoroughly checked Bob, which makes me think that he was crying about something else.

I don't get the sense that any of her apologies showed that she really put herself in his shoes or showed that she understood the trust she broke. They were more like her daughter's apology to that girl ... "I'm sorry, OK." Even the dude she cheated with looked at her and said, "I think you're going to have to dig deeper" when addressing her situation with Joel. I thought the writers would get around to addressing this, and give Julia a real moment of understanding and contrition. Probably not gonna happen at this point. No one has to be the villain ... I just think he would be viewed as a villain if the situation were reversed.

Julia is 100% wrong and selfish. She has offered no apology and shown no contrition for her betrayal. If she had done this, instead of sleeping with snowflake academy teachers, she might be back together with Joel. As it is now, he loves her but does not trust her, which is why he is in limbo and is crushed that she is dating around. He is simply looking for that recognition that he was betrayed so he can begin to trust again. I think that if it was reversed, with Julia going back to work for the first time in years, having Joel burst in on her workplace yelling, then Joel spending time in another woman's home alone, then Joel kissing said woman, then Joel claiming that he was an innocent recipient of said kiss, then when Julia moves out because she cannot trust Joel, Joel goes and sleeps with someone else, then Julia continues to selflessly serve Joel's siblings and parents in many ways, etc. etc, I think everyone would rightly consider Joel a villain. I don't understand why it is different for a woman? Maybe it's the Braverman effect?