Jonathan Seagull

I guess it could have been, I just thought it would be odd to have him strip down completely for a 2-second shot and then immediately change. Though I guess the logic could be that if he had to change anyway he might as well get naked first. Though if it is Hemsworth (or if people assume it is), that makes it even more odd to me that no one brought it up, what with all the pre-show talk. :-)

I have two things I wanted to note: 1) I'm glad I'm not crazy, or at least not alone, in thinking that Update was more entertaining. Full disclosure, I'm actually pretty okay with Jost/Che in general, but I still thought it was a noticeable improvement. 2) So...is no one going to mention the seemingly very actually naked guy in the shower during the reality sketch? I'm assuming it wasn't actually Chris Hemsworth, but I'm a little surprised no one has brought it up.

At first I thought maybe the episode was going to work multiple monsters in, or have the boys keep thinking it's one thing, but then it's not. But then when they settled on the shifter it was like Oh! The monsters were all suspects! They wanted us to play our own game of Clue trying to guess which one it was going to be.

I was just so weirded out throughout the entire A-plot. You're telling me that this entire group of teenage girls (including Jack of all people -- I wonder if Imogen is going to find out about that) is cool with spreading naked pictures of themselves around the school? Really? Like, I'll ignore the fact that there apparently aren't any faculty members around that would need to approve fundraising ideas, even though it doesn't make any sense because any thing that's bought for the team would also presumably need to be approved, and wouldn't they wonder where the money came from....Anyway. But seriously, I can only hope and assume that this entire thing will be some lesson about how terrible all of this is, because addressing the legitimate issue of sexism and double standards by having a bunch of teenage girls sell naked pics for cash is uncomfortable and gross. I really liked the Maya storyline, though. I like this use of Maya so much more than the constant boy-drama of last season. And I'm glad that the balcony thing was her nightmare, because it makes so much sense for the character. I wish they would actually say Cam's name, but it was still all pretty obviously tied in. I also liked seeing her practicing again. I'm pretty ambivalent about Drew/Becky. I'm not really a fan of the pairing, but I also never liked it when the show got couples together at the end of one season only to break them up immediately the next season (hi, Manny/JT). So I'm okay with them getting back together for now, because it makes it seem like the writers actually have things they want to do with them. And I do like both characters individually.

Honestly, I'm not sure that I really dug the Boston part of the monologue, either. I mean, to be fair it's a solid punchline -- running that whole marathon and then getting to the end and being told to run -- but it still seems maybe a little fresh. Also, Chris Rock is great, but I just don't really like it when comedians just come out and launch into their standup. They can (and do) do that anywhere. I want the monologue to feel like something that was actually written for the show. Even though How's He Doing is always the same thing (like probably most sketches), my biggest laugh of the night probably came from "Shut up, bitch!" The gaffes were pretty painful tonight. First Michael Che (though moving past it with "Prince, ladies and gentlemen" did amuse me) to the Leslie thing that was apparently a cue card issue. But that went on FOREVER and was awkward and so visible and you could just feel all the energy drain out of the studio.

I dug that they moved the Miles thing ahead so quickly. I figured that he would be trying to keep his family in the dark for at least a few episodes (although Frankie had already seen him kiss Tristan, right? Or was it just Winston?) I also thought the sibling reactions were true to the characters, with Hunter mostly being quiet even if he's uncomfortable (I get the feeling that he's uncomfortable a lot of the time anyway) and Frankie being a little more playful and aware. I didn't like Becky's attitude towards Zoe, but I figured it would be one of those things where she realizes she's wrong by the end of the episode. Did not expect it to turn out like that. And I'm okay with Zoe still not being all sunshine and rainbows. The Zig/Maya background reactions amused me. But...wouldn't Becky still have a say in who is on the team even if she's hurt, and be even more opposed to Zoe? Or is that not how cheer teams work? Whatever winds up happening with Clare, I do actually think that her reactions in this episode were true to her character. Having said that, I do think a miscarriage is probably the best thing they could do in terms of storytelling. It allows some really good material and still lets them send Clare off the way I suspect they want to. Random things: I think it's funny that it seems like every few seasons they give the cheerleaders a different name and try to act like it's something new. Simpson has a beard! Is this entire season going to take place over the last 10 weeks of the school year? Or will they maybe split it like in Season 11? Hmmm.

I got a good laugh out of Drunk Uncle uncomfortably rolling away from Michael Che and over to Colin Jost. The monologue lost me a little. It was well done but I honestly didn't really know what the comedy in the song was, if it was supposed to be comic. Taran and Kyle were by far the best Jim Carrey impersonators. The Lincoln spots were pretty great.

I enjoyed this one overall. I think part of that is because even though I don't think all the sketches were great (the riverboat sketch in particular I don't think worked), I appreciated that they were trying new things instead of trotting out the recurring standby sketches. I was also going to say that I appreciate that Sarah Silverman didn't just do standup for her monologue, which lots of comedians do, but apparently that stuff actually is part of her routine? Well, even so, I at least appreciate that it was something different than the typical "isn't it funny how" observational comedy. I enjoyed Update. It felt like both guys were pretty on their game and they're building a nice chemistry. I especially liked Colin's shifty-eyed "cool cool cool" when Michael told him why they could say "bitch." Also, Ms. NBC. Did not see Pete Davidson at all, but I think I actually admire that, too. I thought they might give him a bigger part because of the response he got last week, but I like that they held back. Oh, but hey Mike O'Brien!

When Chris Pratt pulled out a guitar I was like "no not a music monologue not you too chris pratt." But I actually kind of liked it. I dig the new look for the Update set. Michael Che had some trouble with his delivery but hopefully that'll work itself out. I did like his reactions to Girl You Wish..., who I thought it was cool to see again even though I liked Cecily as an anchor (I'm fine with Jost, too). I also liked seeing Leslie Jones again. Watching that He-Man sketch, part of me was sort of embarrassed for the guys and part of me was like "oh my god, show, you are so ridiculous that I can't help but laugh." I'm actually a little surprised they were allowed to, uh, do that so much. Re: The Big Fat Ass sketch. On the one hand, I'm kind of tired of how often they go to the crude, sexually aggressive well with Aidy. I mean, she's not the only one, but it seems like it's go-to with her. On the other hand, I liked the reactions of the friends, like when one is like "I think you're hitting the ass thing a little too hard." Also, someone mentioned that it's more clever if you look at it as a jab at how people are with music. A lot of people will sing along with songs and get into them -- even around other people -- even when the lyrics are stuff they would never say in normal conversation. I got a kick out of seeing Colin, Leslie, and Michael cameo in that NFL sketch. Pete Davidson was immediately really likable.

I think Shark in the Water is my favorite. The S12 one is good too, but S10 is is really creative and stylish. And the song is pretty catchy. I noticed in the musical chairs video that Tiny was part of the group, so I'm assuming he'll be around more; and that Lyle's hair is darker again; and I think Eric Osborne's hair was a little longer. I tentatively approve of all these things.

I agree with pretty much everything in that post. In particular, Jay was also a favorite of mine. I was disappointed that he never really had a personal storyline (or even a "Jay episode"). Also liked Dave, and it continues to irritate me that he just disappeared from the show after 4 seasons with no explanation. I liked Jane a lot, too, minus the cheating storyline. She was probably one of my favorite characters/actors brought in around that time, and I was definitely a little bummed that she couldn't stick around longer.

Not the same, but there's a mini (from S6) that is about a future reunion. Speaking of mini's, I'd already seen the first one about/following JT's death, but I had not seen this one, about the 6th month anniversary. The last bit is unnecessary, but otherwise it's kind of touching. And it notably features someone who (disappointingly) did not get to react to JT's death on the actual show, which was awesome. That's interesting to know. If Marco did 4 years of university, he should have gotten his teaching degree at the end of S12. Or whatever his actual major was, with teacher certification. Assuming it works roughly the same way in Canada as it does in the U.S.

I think Marisol's main storyline of her own was getting together with Mo, which unfortunately was not enough to make me like her. And it bugged me that neither she nor Katie (whom I liked much, much better) ever got any comeuppance for the Fiona thing. Re: Gay characters, we should keep in mind that transgender people are not (necessarily) gay. As far as I remember, Adam did not identify as being gay. He identified as a male who was (exclusively, as far as we know) attracted to females. I assume people are meaning more the general "queer" umbrella of LGBTQ, but I thought I'd put that out there. But yeah, Drew's behavior towards Riley when he was first introduced is troublesome, especially because (much like Owen's) it was never really dealt with. Though to be fair, he did also seem to still have a bit of a hard time accepting Adam at first, too.

Responding to some conversation in the Best/Worst thread: Thing is, with the messed up timeline of the show, I'm pretty sure Jack is still only like 7-8. He was born sometime around S2-3, right? Part of me actually wonders if, in 5-10 years, they're going to relaunch the show (or soft reboot it, if this version never ends) with Emma and Spinner in the Spike and Snake roles, with their kid(s) as the new main character. And Marco as a teacher.

Since it's not really about best/worst, I'm gonna respond in the seasons thread.

I'll be honest, Sean never really clicked for me. Partly because I thought Daniel Clark was one of the weaker actors on the show. I would definitely put Ashley up there in the Worst category in terms of her handling overall. I mean, she was kind of a bitchy and humorless character to start with, but I was okay with her as a character through S4. It was interesting to see her make such a radical change after the first season, and then I actually like how she sort of found a balance in S3/S4. But it was so clear the writers had no idea what to do with her when they brought her back. In S6 she was nothing more than Jimmy's girlfriend. I remember her being fairly nice and supportive, and I'll admit she looked great, but she also seemed like a totally different character with no identity of her own. Then in S7, the show remembered that she's a musician, but she got dour and self-absorbed again, and then literally just peaced out over Spring Break. This girl who left the country prior to senior year comes back to town a year later, and completes like 75% of senior year, and then just runs off again suddenly. I'm also happy Simpson continues to be around, though I'm sad he's such a non-character these days. He was probably always my favorite of the adult characters, so it's almost bittersweet. He hasn't had anything to do other than principling in like 5 years. Of course, since SB is also involved behind the scenes, I'd assume that would change if he wanted it to. I don't even remember the Simpson/Connor relationship being acknowledged in the last couple of seasons. Connor still lives with him, right?

To be fair, I think Emma's annoyingness in the first couple of seasons was at least somewhat intentional, and meant to be sort of an endearing quirk. I was fine with it mostly. For me, S4 is where the show really started to lose Emma. Miriam had a noticeable growth spurt, and to be honest I think she started playing Emma differently. It seemed like there was an almost constant coyness or something. In contrast, IMO S4 is where Manny starts to really come into her own as a likeable character. In other news, after ignoring them for years, I've suddenly started watching the Degrassi Minis. Have you guys seen them? If not, they're generally 2-3 minute extras focused on certain characters. Some of them are what-ifs and other "just for fun" stuff, but others seem reasonably within continuity. Apparently they started in S5; I'm midway through S6's now. There was one taking place during S5 involving Sean, which was interesting since he wasn't on the actual show then. They're also neat because some of them are based on character interaction that we didn't get much of during the show itself. One was Manny and Marco. The first one I actually saw, a 4-parter which seemed to take place just before Degrassi Goes Hollywood, was focused on Jay (with major parts for Spinner and Holly J and appearances from Jane, Blue, Sav, Anya, Peter, Mia, Clare, and KC). And Clare (remember, S8 Clare) calls Jay "old man," which made me laugh.

That's a good point, and I do admire the show for having a trans character in a fairly significant role for several years. The execution was flawed, but I'm happy they had him as a character. Also, seeing my own quote above, I suddenly realize that I said "trans actress" when I meant actor, since obviously they would looking for a guy for Adam. I think I was still thinking in terms of Jordan as an actress. My bad.

I wouldn't be too surprised if they did something (baby or no) to keep Clare and Eli around past next season. Then again, if they let Emma and Spinner and Paige and Holly J go, they should be able to let those two go. Theoretically. But yeah, pretending for a moment that they won't find a way to keep people around, next season's graduation could be the biggest the show's ever done. After S5 they kept following Paige, Marco, Ellie, and somewhat Alex (Hazel was the only real departure). After S7 they kept following Emma, Manny, Liberty, and Spinner (mostly losing Toby and Jimmy). S12 graduated a whole bunch of people, but I think this would edge it out in terms of long-running characters. They'd potentially be losing Clare (and maybe Eli with her), Alli, Connor, Jenna, Drew, Imogen, Becky, and Dallas. Wiki says Jack is also a senior, which surprises me a little. Minus them, the cast is Maya, Tristan, Zig, Miles, Zoe, Winston, Grace, and Frankie. In terms of people of color, they could theoretically expand the roles of Zoe and Frankie's friend whose name I don't know, and Tiny, who left the gang with Zig. I halfway wonder if they're holding off on introducing any Grade 11s so that they don't have to worry about another graduation for a few seasons. Having said that, they'll probably introduce 5 new juniors next season.

Heh, that's kind of an unwritten asterisk I mentally attach to the "at least decent" thing. Yes, he was an ass in his first episode. After that, though, he was pretty harmless (if immature). He tried to talk to Liberty about being adopted -- which I think she kind of freaked out about, but he meant well. Then there was that episode where we were obviously meant to be sympathetic to Derek when Perino* was getting all inappropriately in-your-face angry with Derek. I'm not saying he was ever super awesome or likeable, but he's the only character I know of that they intentionally made more of an antagonist jerk later on. @starri - It always kind of bugged me that the show never actually confronted Owen's homophobia. Giving him Tristan as a brother was interesting, but I think it actually called more attention to it, for me. Of course, they never really did that with Jay, either, and he's one of my favorite characters. Owen's arc with Anya kind of showed him being a little more mature and responsible, IIRC, but I thought they wasted him after that. S12 would have been the ideal time to get into the character more, but he was almost entirely sidelined the whole season. I think there was potential in Owen that the show never really took advantage of. BTW, also not big on Tristan. I'm torn because on the one hand I think he's a very realistic character. But I really have a hard time thinking of attributes to the character that I actually like. Also, I agree about the sexual assault thing. It's kind of manipulative (among other concerns), but like you said I think the show has handled it pretty well when they've done it. *Holy crap, for years now I've been thinking that Perino's first appearance was when he was getting angryface with Derek in S6. I guess that's just his first really notable appearance (that I remember, at least), because apparently he's been on the show since S2. I had no idea.

I think that's actually a huge part of the show's modus operandi -- introducing an antagonistic character (bitchy girl, bully, whatever) and eventually making them sympathetic and likeable. I hated Zoe, and also had no doubt they would do the same thing with her. They did it with Paige, Alex, Jay, Johnny, Bianca, Holly J, Peter, Owen, arguably Marisol (I never really warmed up her), and even Spinner to a lesser extent. Not to mention people like Fiona and Imogen. In fact, I was thinking the other day that I can literally only think of one character who was initially introduced as at least decent, and was later developed into a total asshole -- Derek. I'm not sure if something happened there, but in S8 they made him into a complete jerk and bully (remember that time he kicked Jane while she was down?) and then he disappeared halfway through the season. Hazel is arguably the most famous example of a character being on the show long-term with almost nothing to do. Although Chantay was technically on the show longer, but not as a regular. Hazel did get that awesome B-plot where she was upset about Paige dating Alex. Her and Chantay at least got to graduate, though. I don't remember anything particularly wrong with what happened with KC -- sure, he was written out early (as in, before graduation), but he managed over 4 years on the show with fairly notable storylines, and he got a reasonably proper goodbye. Poor Tori just got put on a bus with quick line. Or Terri. Or Joey. Or Wesley. Watch out if your name ends with an "ee" sound, I guess. I think the only time I bought it a little more was in Season 10/11 when they had the uniforms and his hair was pretty short.

I'm actually gonna respond over in the Seasons thread.

Responding to some discussion from the latest episode thread: IIRC, Riley and Anya never really dated. I think he might have asked her out or something but she figured out pretty quickly that he's gay and they became friends. He tried to date Fiona when he was still more in denial and had anger issues, which made Fiona peace out. So Riley did make attempts to date girls, but I'm pretty sure it was clear from the beginning that he was gay (or bisexual). I think the first Riley episode was the one where he kissed Peter. To respond to some of the other discussion in the thread: I haaaaaaaaaaaaaated Eli when he was first introduced. Really hated. I thought they were trying way too hard with the character (He only wears black and red! To go with his his jet black hair and his hearse. Yes, a fucking hearse. And he totally listens to music that I'm sure the producers think is super hardcore! And he's deep and sensitive and poetic and eloquent!) It didn't help that Munro Chambers smirked his way through 80% of his dialogue in his first couple seasons. I really just wanted to punch Eli until maybe midway through Season 11. Re: Adam. I was also a little disappointed that they just got a regular actress for the role. I can understand it being a little more difficult to find a trans actress at that age, but Jordan just didn't do it for me. I don't want to lay too much blame at her feet because she's young, and the show does have directors, but I just did not feel like there was much effort put into making Adam believable, especially since about Season 12. Re: Chantay. Yeah, I'm pretty sure she first showed up in, like, Season 4 (Yup). I kind of lost track of the show around Season 8, but when I started watching again I was like "Wait a second. That cannot be the same character." What's the math, there? She graduated in S11...was a junior in 8/9...sophomore in 6/7...freshman in 5...8th in 4. That's actually not as bad as I was thinking. I did like that she finally got her own plot before graduating, though.

Heh. I have to admit that when they started with the undressing I was like "Uh, is everybody in that group of characters suddenly gonna get their gay on?"

Finally registered here so that I could chime in on this. I'm really torn on this episode. Aside from any other issues it had the OMGSTORM drama, which makes me laugh more than anything else because shows always do it and it's always so cheesy and it almost never causes any real damage. Drew and Becky. I'm okay with it theoretically, but it was written so badly, especially with the "Drew knows Becky so well" bits. Hey, show? You remember when you were just doing the "Drew knows Clare so well" bit a little while back? And the worst parts were shoved together right at the beginning. "Becky used to do a dance routine to this song with her brother, and that's why she's upset, and I know this because we're totally buds!" and "Becky always goes to the greenhouse when she's upset, yet another thing I suddenly know about Becky because apparently we've spent a lot of time together since the last episode!" It was just crazy forced. But I do hope the spectre of Adam kind of hangs over them at some point. Speaking of, I'm a little surprised that Becky still doesn't know that Adam cheated on her a little with Imogen. I thought they were cementing their friendship first, but it's been a whole season now. Maybe next season, or maybe the writers have just moved on. What was Drew's attitude on that, anyway? I remember him wanting Adam to keep focused on counseling but I also remember him not really having an issue with Adam hooking up with Imogen. Eli and Clare was also forced, and it also felt like sort of a sudden shift to get people where they want them. I guess part of it is Eli not being a regular presence anymore. The last time we saw him, it was big drama and sadness. And here, even at the beginning, he was totally cool and calm and smiley about everything. It was just trying too hard to suddenly have them be light and fun again. Did not expect the pregnancy thing; don't know how I feel about it. It would be awesome if they remember that Clare and her family are supposed to be religious, though, because we never really hear about that anymore. I liked the Maya/Zoe storyline in some ways, hated it in others. I know that Maya was upset about the party reveal, but I didn't really like that she went right back to hating Zoe, after being supportive throughout the whole rape storyline. However, I did like that Maya called Zoe on the awful shit Zoe did in the first half of the season. But then, I haaaated that Zoe never really aplogizes for or explains any of that, and it's all brushed off with admissions of jealousy. Tristan and Miles was...interesting. Maybe a little fanfic-y, but I actually remember someone speculating quite a while ago (on the dearly departed TWoP boards) about Miles winding up as a love interest for Tristan. When they did that rom-com almost kiss by the pool thing I was like "Holy shit, are they really doing that?" I'm also interested because: I don't think so, and that's something I'm potentially looking forward to. It's even more striking when you realize that it's exactly the opposite with most of the female characters in same-sex relationships. Almost all of them were introduced and established well before any type of same-sex pairing. They didn't go there with Paige (and Alex) until Season 5, I think Fiona was in her second season, and Imogen was introduced having an obsession with Eli. In contrast, every (major) gay male character has been essentially introduced that way. I think the first episode centered on Marco was specifically about that; same goes for Riley. And Tristan was fairly clear from the start. And I don't remember there being any implicitly or explicitly bi male characters at all. So either way, the Miles thing is interesting and I think kind of neat because it's the first time they've ever taken a firmly established male character and then later (possibly) developed a same-sex attraction/pairing. My one criticism there is that I think it still felt a bit forced just because we've barely seen Tristan and Miles hang out in the second half of the season. I seem to remember them interacting more as friends earlier in the season, but there's been very little of that recently. So suddenly having them be so close again (to the point that there was sexual tension) seemed a bit off, but whatever.