anonymiss
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Posts posted by anonymiss
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10 minutes ago, companionenvy said:
Unfortunately, while I liked large portions of the finale, the central scene -- Stan letting them go -- simply doesn't work for me. At all.
I could buy Stan passing on the encoded message. Had circumstances permitted it, I could even have bought him letting Oleg escape, because he is someone who has been known to put the personal ahead of the national. But the Jenningses? Knowing, or having a very good idea, of what they've done over the years? Nope. I don't care how disillusioned Stan was, and how much he may have identified on some level with Philip's attitude. First of all, attempts at establishing a moral equivalence notwithstanding, I don't think Stan is so thoroughly disillusioned that he believes that his entire FBI career has been a waste, or that there's no value in what they're trying to do. Maybe he no longer wants to be a Cold Warrior, but he's spent years putting away violent white supremacists, and he's seen first-hand the absolute brutality of the KGB. The FBI may have blood on its hands, too, but I simply don't believe that Stan Beeman would so thoroughly buy into the idea that spying is spying wherever you do it that he would do what he did here. Especially given that, while I think Philip was being (mostly) sincere, Stan could never have been sure how much Philip was playing him in this scene. The guy has been lying to him for years. Even if Stan gets why he would have had to do that, and is willing to allow for the possibility that their friendship was genuine, the possibility that he was being played by these people yet again would, I think, have factored into his decision.
Maybe Stan didn't need to believe what Philip was selling; he just needed to not be able to shoot them, especially not in front of their child (whom he's known since she actually was a child). Philip rightly called his bluff. It kind of recalls how, much to his surprise, Stan called Oleg's bluff correctly and was allowed to walk away.
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2 hours ago, Dev F said:
Correct me if I'm wrong -- after Elizabeth muses that she could've managed a factory, doesn't she say something to Philip like "You might have m--" and then stops herself? I wondered if she was going to ponder whether Philip might've married Irina, but realized she didn't want to go there.
That makes perfect sense, especially when she tries to recover with something like, "Maybe we would have met...like on a train...."
Some residual regrets about what happened to Nina may have factored into Stan making the decision to put his gun down.
The priest interrogation scene dragged on too long. Also, was there a mistake in the photograph? Why was Philip photographed in disguise with his eyes obscured by dark sunglasses? As far as I recall, he was wearing spectacles, as he always has in that particular (non)disguise.
I didn't hate it nor could I love it because it was so simple. I can appreciate that they stayed true to the restrained quietness that is this show but there always was enough of a long-game payoff. I didn't get it this time--the time that it matters most.
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I hate how Bethenny says and does whatever shit she wants and then cries to diffuse and distract so she ends up being babied as the perpetual victim. I can't stand Carole and Ramona but am Team AnyoneButBethenny.
Even Heather isn't looking so bad to me these days.
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5 minutes ago, Cardie said:
I'm a Baby Boomer and our lives as kids were quite unstructured. As long as I wasn't leaving our cul de sac, my parents let me out on non-school mornings and expected me back for supper. If they wanted to know where I was, they scanned the various porches to see where my dog was sleeping. But Paige and Henry are Gen Xers, a group who, broadly, had two working parents or were kids of divorce, lamented as "latch-key kids." Their special circumstances make the Jennings siblings this to an extreme degree. Again, broadly, helicopter parenting arose when those Gen X parents wanted to be far more involved in their kids' lives than their "neglectful" Boomer parents were. Plus, helicopter parenting really only becomes possible with the advent of cell phones and other tracking/surveillance technology for personal use.
Yeah the term is anachronistic but the parenting style would have had an equivalent even then. Maybe as keeners or overachievers.
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14 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:
In the late 1960s through the 1970s helicopter parenting would have drastically and wildly out of place and out of character for who they were supposed to be. They didn't want to be the talk of the neighborhood or the PTA. They wanted to be as close to invisible and unremarked upon as possible.
Absolutely. Their choices within the home, though, have always surprised and impressed upon me that they are loving, warm, and permissive parents. Their voices are heard and respected, even if doing wrong like when P scolded Paige for skipping school and lying about it. He apologized for his rare outburst. She has been raised wjth a freedom to be insolent, reflected in her adult behavior when given any criticism.
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1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:
Philip and Elizabeth weren't supposed to be immigrants, though, so Paige and Henry are supposed to be "soft" Americans.
Yup. But there is middle ground as well as more structured but still "American" well-to-do parenting styles (like helicoptor parenting) that drives kids to perform or to the Ivy leagues like where Henry seems a good fit for.
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1 hour ago, SusanSunflower said:
A little late to complain about it now but I've thought many times that it is odd that Elizabeth (and Phillip) did not push Paige and "early" Henry harder ... as immigrant parents are inclined to do, not just because of hopes and ambitions for the future, but because of all the resources and programs that weren't available during their own growing-up. Getting into the KGB Academy was an incredible opportunity for both P&E and they both appreciate how different their lives would have been if they had not be "chosen ones."
In fairness to Claudia, "American children" also includes Jared (and his dead sister) ... I have to think Claudia really didn't know how bad Paige's KGB internship under mom's mentoring was (probably others wanted to avoid getting of E's "bad side" or being a tattle-tail). Regardless, Paige's superficiality in all things at all times ... it didn't even occur to her to ask if Claudia was joking about eating rats or selling her body for food. Like her mother, the empathy ("oh, that must have beeen awful for you") gene is utterly missing (the "good manners" gene appears damaged to).
This surprised me too. They've raised them soft, with the casual freedom to talk back to their parents, to come and go as they please, the pleasure of celebrating special occasions with multiple gifts, and an individualist right to privacy (so long as they aren't skipping school). My immigrant parents raised me in a much more austere, strict environment. P and E obviously want differently for their children than they got, which recalls what P said when arguing that Paige could do the job, but shouldn't. It's also why E kept overprotecting Paige from the harsh reality of the job (and the world, really). E was just as against their kids being involved as P was until Paige took to God and E was driven to divert that devotion elsewhere.
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44 minutes ago, MBayGal said:chick binewski said:
I really did want to like this episode. But I wish we had seen Stan's growing awareness earlier this season and have more action unfold over several weeks. Everything seems kind of tacked-on and a little forced.
44 minutes ago, MBayGal said:It was tense and engaging in some ways, but it was all so compressed. [...] Paige realizes what her mother really does, based on people talking about a vomitting drunk talking about the woman who seduced him; Stan is so sure P and E are the spies that he tells Alderhold.
Agreed. They had the time so none of this would feel rushed but chose instead to devote it to pointless Paige. All that time after her blankly staring into space after sleeping w/ the intern was precious time wasted. She only ever seems to grow a brain when it's convenient for the plot and is always twice as annoying when indignant because she is naively indignant. She was indignant in demanding her parents' truth and naive in thinking she could handle it (and even do it better than her dad after landing some sucker punches). And tonight she had an awfully convenient, but woefully naive epiphany about the nature of her mother's work, which she was set to devote her life to the other week. She was a waste of Elizabeth's and Claudia's time and my time.
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40 minutes ago, argrow said:
The one good thing I can say about Jennifer Lopez is that she's really great at marketing. Mediocre singer, dancer, actor but managed to convince people she is good at anything.
LOL I was literally thinking the same thing during her performance.
I only tuned in for Fall in Line by Christina Aguilera feat. Demi Lovato. Really enjoyed it but the staging was weird.
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8 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:
Well you've clearly got strong feelings and given this a great deal of thought, so I'm not going to waste time trying try to sway you or point out the inaccuracies. Although I do feel compelled to correct that she absolutely did volunteer for Hillary's campaign. So, no, her political activism was not limited to "bitching on Twitter."
However, I would like to say that I am 100% positive I could come up with a list this long - or longer - about almost ANY housewife (from any city) pointing out the discrepancy between things they say, and things they actually do. In fact, I'm positive I could pen a mini-novel about Sonja alone. No ghostwriter needed. But I guess none of the other women act like "cool girls" so their lying, dishonesty, atrocious behavior is OK?
As WireWrap said above, the woman is FAR from perfect. She 100% has flaws, as they ALL do. I guess I just don't get why some are so adamant in their hate for the woman when she's probably exhibited a small FRACTION of the nasty, vile behavior that women like Ramona have done over the years.
They also all get their fair share of criticism, too.
For me, I don't even bother with Ramona and Sonja because I've written them off as lost causes. Carole, however, actually seems liked she is stable and sensible enough that she should know better.
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6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:
People have cheered on Elizabeth killing for years. It's not a double standard. This season she's not only more of a hard-liner like she's always been but the plot is about her being robotic and not caring about it. Her whole arc is basically about how she needs to wake up and start acting like a human being again.
None of the characterizations I take issue with acknowledge she was robotically following orders. They essentialize her work as who she is--a monster, a sociopath, a hateful shrew who enjoys this. Years ago, after Elizabeth's mission with the lady who was an addict went bad, and she ended up killing her to stop her from going to the police, there was a comment about how Elizabeth enjoys this and was getting antsy not having murdered in a while like the sociopath she is. It was agreed with and one of many that paint her that way. So I don't see the cheering. I see a vilification, which, for the reasons I've mentioned previously, is a double standard.
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56 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:
We haven’t ever seen Philip befriend someone and then seduce their wife have we?
we JUST saw the difference in him with kimmy vs her with Jackson: she didn’t kill him but wasn’t troubled by the sex. Philip postponed that for years. Have we ever seen Phillip casually let a car land on someone?
We also see Philip care about his kids.
My impression from what the show has shown us is that Philip has a conscience and Elisabeth has a mission. I’m usually the first one to talk about different standards for men and women I don’t see it here.
There is no debate on whether Phillip is the more conscientious critical thinker, especially not after this episode spelled that out.
But I do see a double standard in how quickly she is labelled a no-conscience-having "monster," "sociopath," "evil," and "hateful shrew." (The last pejorative came from her not being thrilled at learning her husband has been spying on her. Yet, it's clear she does understand, which is why she takes the actions she does.) Part of this double standard is a confirmation bias in ignoring the evidence that doesn't support this black-and-white view of her.
The post you quoted was in response to how much is made of her body count when Philip would have had a comparable number if they had been working together this season, as they have been equal prior. To your points, I do see Elizabeth caring about her kids. I do see her struggling with her conscience, like in the Young-Hee mission you mention (to the point where Gabe sees it and submits a request to do it another way). I don't see the equivalence to Kimmy and this young man. Why would Elizabeth need to "postpone" or be "troubled by the sex? He's not an underage girl and even though she only knew him a short time she was torn on how to contain him, and ultimately let him go. As we know, Philip seduces and uses whomever he needs to, one of them ended up in a suitcase. If the same had happened to one of Elizabeth's long-term assets we would have seen her similarly troubled by it, like she was with Gregory.
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1 hour ago, BelleBrit said:
Fair enough, but there is a difference imo between saying someone lacks comedic timing and is awkward/cringe-y vs people being so "offended" by her silly, faux trash talk remarks (imo you have to reallly reach) , but I'm done talking about this so I'll agree to disagree. Also, it's Mirai.
Yup. I've even seen on her elimination Access interview a pile-on in the comments starting from a normal "I don't like her" to "She even manipulates people." SMH.
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On 5/10/2018 at 8:48 PM, ryebread said:
If he was using Carole and then called her, "crying and begging" and asking for "more Carole in my life", yeah, that qualifies as a little bitch, imo.
That said, Carole revealing that he did that (if he did) - complete with shaking hands to indicate he was all!shook!up! - was a whole nother definition of bitch.
It was just another self-promotional opportunity to show us how much "gorgeous," 20-something Adam can't get enough of her.
I wonder how much she paid via her publicist for those social media celebrity mentions.
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6 hours ago, Umbelina said:
Philip, up until this year, has killed as many people as Elizabeth.
Also, Philip expected her to kill that guy in the submarine plot warehouse, but deferred to her when she just took the photo of his kid, and didn't. She doesn't ALWAYS kill. She hated killing the mail robot woman, it tore her up.
It would be complete bullshit to have Oleg be in more scenes, he, were this real, would try to NOT meet with Philip unless it was critical. The initial meetings were, but now, a dead drop will work. He's trying to stay alive, and not expose the illegals either. There is no pressing reason to risk that, and he's picked up the FBI tails on him now.
Thank you. If Elizabeth hadn't insisted he quit, his murder toll would be comparable to hers. Evidently, there are different standards for women, though.
Bless Oleg, but yes, this show--as much as I adore it--has enough contrivances that we don't need more.
3 hours ago, Umbelina said:Claudia is good, and she won Elizabeth back in several ways over the years. It didn't suddenly happen. I think a big step in winning her back was when she told Elizabeth that she tried to stop the recruitment of the other couple's son, and she would have never approved if she had known about the honeypot tricks that eventually made him kill his parents.
She's looked out for them both many times since, and she also is good with Paige.
How much of beating Claudia was her inner fury at herself for her betrayal of Philip?
Anyway, no choice now, she had to get along with her, Gabe flat out quit. The other handler was certainly not better than Claudia.
Yes. Also, the start to gaining Elizabeth's trust was established when she told Elizabeth that Philip lied to her about sleeping with Irina. Later, Elizabeth gives Philip a hard, long look and he hilariously obliviously says, "Just drinking me in?" Her response was something cryptic like, "Yeah, just looking at things differently. And maybe we were wrong about Granny."
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5 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:
Well, I am surprised by that ending! Thought for sure Mirai would be a finalist.
I'm bitterly not. This show has always screwed over the better dancer for the sensational story, which is the norm in show business.
4 hours ago, scenicbyway said:Mirai's mouth cost her the finals. She's so trying to be like Adam with his sarcastic personality but it just comes across as spoiled and bitchy. She did the same thing when she screwed up at the Olympics by saying it didn't matter because it was really just her Dancing with the Stars audition.
Yes. When Adam joked, "The one thing I'm grateful for is that I'm a beautiful crier," that is exactly the kind of attitude Mirai tries to emulate but because she is a woman she can't. In Adam's case, everyone laughed and thought, "Isn't he wonderful?" In her (or any woman's case) it'd be, "How dare she be so egotistical! What a snob!"
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2 hours ago, taurusrose said:
Well you shouldn’t be. The use of the word “otherness” in a multicultural, multiracial 21st century world is tone deaf.
I used the term Other as part of our explication of this series. An acknowledgement of discrimination is not an endorsement. The term is used in scholarly discussion past, present, and will continue to be in the future for the same reason I used it.
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11 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:
Paige also has a specific kind of look that's appealing to many. It's what a friend of mine used to call "high school pretty." Very non-threatening. Also vulnerable looking. Long hair. Big Bambi eyes. Big smile. Petite but not boyish.
And the show confirms this in that Paige seems to attract boys all the time. Off the top of my head we've got the creepers at the mall and the the guy Henry hit. The mugger seemed particularly amused by mugging her. There was a kid in the church group who seemed to like her in one tiny moment (Pastor Tim seemed to have them work together hoping to put them together), Matthew Beeman once she got older, Brian the intern, Vince in the bar, the sailor.
The show never seems to be saying she's a knockout like Elizabeth or particularly seductive. But I totally believe that lots of guys think she's very pretty. In fact I'd bet that gives her the impression that spying is easy. As she said to Elizabeth, Brian just offered to show her secret documents. Mostly Paige just has to smile and laugh and be impressed. The one actual back and forth she had was with Matthew but I admit it seemed to me that even there there wasn't a particular meeting of the minds even though they did connect on the parent issue. I think he was trying to make that work more than it actually clicking.
She doesn't seem to attract people as friends, though.
It's harder to make friends in adulthood but very natural in childhood, yet what is incredulous to me is she's never shown to have had any ever. Any socialization has been for work like church volunteering. She never was shown using that phone in her bedroom to talk to anyone but Pastor Tim and (unsuccessfully) eavesdrop on her parents. They never took the time to flesh her out into a whole believable character so she is just a one-dimensional plot device.
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8 minutes ago, taurusrose said:
It’s not. There are plenty of pretty women in my town who aren’t models or actresses.
The use of the word “otherness” is offensive to me as beauty is not limited to white skin or any particular ethnicity. As for Paige she isn’t anything special to me. I find her sad, misguided and pathetic for many of the reasons posted more eloquently by others.
I don't believe and never said beauty and whiteness are linked. As a poc myself I'm surprised by this misunderstanding. The point is whiteness and belonging are linked and pretty and belonging are linked. I didn't think that needed to be explicitly stated but apparently it does.
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4 hours ago, taurusrose said:
Not trying to pick your comment apart, but it cracks me up that in the U.S. any young white girl is always “pretty” whether she is or not. Double points if average looking young white girl has blonde hair. The word means almost nothing now. IMHO, Paige is quite average in all respects including appearance. And Holly Taylor is a piss poor actress period. As has been pointed out, an actress with a moderate skill level could compensate for poor character development. She cannot.
I don't think that "any average young white girl is pretty." Paige is above average even with the awful styling. I didn't say gorgeous but she is pretty and has no reason to be the friendless outcast she's been. Holly Taylor when she styles herself looks like a print model. She's not my taste but I think objectively any agency would agree.
She has no Otherness to explain why she has no social life. It's a classic case of bad storytelling where we are told it is so without showing it.
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2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:
I would like to crawl in Paige's head and find out what is going on there.
Paige communicates with people fairly well, so I call bullshit on her inability to make friends. That is, unless she views friendship as individuals being in total agreement on her belief system.
She seems like an empty vessel. She hasn't been developed as a believable human being, let alone aspiring spy. She exists only as a convenient plot device who somehow escaped all the influences of American life and popular culture. She doesn't have any hobbies or interests (except a convenient desire springing out of nowhere at a wee age to dedicate her life to making a difference) and only has superficial critical thinking, replete with a default deer-in-headlights expression.
Paige is a pretty and seemingly normal white girl. She wouldn't have to "put her mind" into forming friendships. If they wanted to be less lazy they could have developed that Paige has extreme shyness or some impediment that makes her get bullied like a speech impediment (she already has poorly affected delayed speech), or was the target of mean girl bullying for being a mega-nerd and now is traumatized. But she is a pretty and "normal" girl who has never been abused or mistreated and was given the things she needed to fit in (as was Henry). Paige is just too well adjusted for any of this to be believable.
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3 hours ago, Erin9 said:
I really don’t buy Philip suddenly leaving as being the big light bulb moment for Stan. But okay.
3 hours ago, Maire said:So what triggered Stan? That the Jennings are away (again?)Doesn't seem like that's a big enough change to wake him up.
2 hours ago, zibnchy said:Only 3 more episodes. :-)
I'm so disappointed. I now agree--this is unconvincing, lazy writing. I expected a lot better from people paid to do this. Why is it rushed, forced, and contrived? They were supposed to have masterfully planned this defining moment and the entire last season could have helped to execute something spectacular instead all I recall it developed was Paige coming to terms with Pastor fucking Tim! (And a single meaningful scene for P&E that took the entire season of filler to get to.)
I guess P&E are the only white couple that travelled at that time and E is the only "pretty," unsuspecting white woman around. Stan shouldn't have jumped to his closest friend and wife immediately--it really needed more than what Henry said and the aforementioned to go from blind trust of his bestie to immediate investigation. (I also thought it was unbelievable in the pilot.)
I forgot to mention it but that last scene with Paige cements it: Holly Taylor is a really poor actress. She's almost as incompetent as Jessica Pare and just as annoying as she tries to make up for lack of ability by speaking as slowly as possible. She should have been on a CW teen show at best and would have been the weak link there, too. It's also absurd that Paige has never had a single friend in her entire existence except the person converting her to Christianity.
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37 minutes ago, OldButHappy said:
Ha! Pretty much sums up every single housewife in every single franchise...it's what makes them so fun to watch!
Imagine, for a moment, if the franchises featured well-adjusted, loving women who made cultivating healthy relationships their priority...total snoozefest!
;)
I thought of that and it's true but not on this franchise (which is the only one I watch). Tinsley, Dorinda, even Lu show more than tell and Tins and Dorinda don't have that agenda at all. Carole can't stop her yapping, self-aggrandizing at every turn in a transparent Trumpian style where she thinks she's being clever but isn't, and has to constantly remind us how desireable she is sexually with her "trophy" of a younger man.
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Carole was blathering on to her sycophant Tins and I couldn't watch anymore. She is full-blown insufferable now and seems to be getting twice as much air time because she's the only one who came determined with a prepared storyline and thought-out outfits to combat the "boring" reputation she well earned from Bethenny. For someone who isn't a Trump supporter she is similarly driven by narcissism and endlessly self-promotes via self-congratulatory bullshit and hyperbole.
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S06.E10: START
in The Americans [V]
· Edited by anonymiss
I can't find a quality screengrab, but it happens at the 8:34 mark.