KingOfHearts

What is Emma's story in S4? Surely it's more than just Captain Swan and guilt over Marian... We really haven't seen too many spoilers that weren't about either of those, except the Snow Queen chase.

Turning her in the right direction would be easy, but not becoming fully redeemed. Redemption takes time because not only does it involve the person in question, but it also involves those who the person has hurt in the past. Saying, "I'm sorry for being bad, I want to be good!" is just the beginning of the process. There is still years of wrongdoing to deal with. Even the brain has to adjust to a new way of thinking, which can take a very, very long time. Just earning trust from anyone after the reputation you've gotten is a journey that takes a lot of hard work and effort. Regina's redemption is no easy or short task, but choosing that path isn't necessarily difficult for the writers to have her do. They had that at the beginning of 2A when Regina apologized to Henry, but they reversed it when Cora came to town, and it's been an endless cycle ever since. The writers claim that Regina has had 66 episodes of redemption (or something to that effect), but it's more like 4 if you only count the ones she really had progress in.

Spot on, Shanna Marie. See, to me, Regina isn't the problem. She can be as villainous and whiny all she wants, and I really don't mind. What boggles my mind is that they want her to be redeemed yet they keep throwing it off for whatever reason. Every time she makes a little progress, it gets reverted almost immediately. They refuse to let her get a true redemption, but they also refuse to let her be a true villain. In the same day she said "heroes don't kill" and threatened to kill Zelena if she misbehaved. In the same day she apologized to Belle and had an heart-to-heart conversation with Snow, yet she still didn't apologize to her. It's like baiting the viewers and wanting to please everyone, but that's a very wrong way to go down. Regina can't be the Evil Queen and redeemed at the same time. When you try to do both, you end up with neither. If you look at Regina as a character logically, she should have redeemed herself a long time ago. It's the writing that avoids it like the plague. Redeeming Regina is really not that hard - all it takes is a sincere apology to get it truly going. But for whatever reason, the writers have an agenda to keep her in a weird state. If they were really committed to her redemption arc, it would have been full steam ahead by the end of S2. Maybe if that were the case, she could have been a real hero in 3B.

Well, what I mean is, with Regina, it's always a bigger deal than it should be. She draws out and over-complicates. Take her situation with Snow, for example. She could have just forgiven Snow and moved on or worked it out with her. But that didn't happen. Instead, she started a wild man hunt that affected thousands of lives. She didn't even simply kill her - she had to kill a bunch of other people, poison an apple, etc. Then you have A&E trying to complicate it even further by saying Regina is the victim there. Then you have the failsafe plot. The simple reasoning is Regina wants to kill everyone and it's a bad thing. But instead of just dealing with that, the writers got Greg and Tamara involved. Or you could take when Regina wanted to put herself under the sleeping curse - simply put, Regina was doing the selfish thing. Then right before she does it, the Wicked Witch comes in and Wicked vs. Evil begins. Every time Regina gets a plot, there's always something that comes in to complicate it or turn it a full 180. The writers like to avoid anything basic or reasonable with her. You can even take Outlaw Queen for example - it's a love interest. Then what do the writers do? They throw in Marian and turn it into the Love Triangle of Doom for the drama factor. Woegina's problems are simple, but the writing and storylines they give her are so sporadic.

Oddly enough, with all the whitewashing, they kept the Regina flashbacks the same and just as sadistic! (Except Save Henry. That was Regina's one redeeming flashback.)

It takes a lot of faith in the writers to assume they'll keep it that way. If Robin and Marian were so happy and functional, then him choosing between Regina and Marian shouldn't be a question. But, it is. What person in his right mind would date the woman who killed his wife he dearly loved? See, even if they were "happily married", Robin is messed up just for that. He's dating a tyrant who slaughtered entire villages and oppressed the poor, going against everything he's ever stood for. Someone like that cannot be in a functional, healthy relationship, it's just not possible. Something is not right here. Outlaw Queen and Marian coming back from the past is just messed up to me. You can bet the writers have something up their sleeve that's going to push it into even weirder territory. There's something else the writers haven't told us yet, and I can guarantee it. This is a Regina plot we're talking about - it's never simple.

Fairies are probably immortal or have really long lifespans. Blue has been around at least 300 years, because she was there when Bae went through the portal. The only real question is whether fairies can have children with humans or not. This all assumes Maleficent is a fairy on Once, which is more than likely.

We could also see some interactions with Blue and Tink too if she's the disgraced, exiled Dark Fairy. It just writes itself!

YES. So much yes! Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! I'm so happy. Finally a relevant villain who's been there from the start who is actually part of the main plot. We may finally get some of the Sleeping Beauty story with Phillip and Aurora filled out! Maleficent is so intelligent and much more clever than Regina/Zelena, so I'm happy about that. Forget Frozen, I'm waiting for 4B!

See, that's another thing the writers haven't really touched on much yet - what Robin's life was like with Marian and Roland. It may seem like it was good from what we've seen, but we've seen very little of Robin and his family's story. We don't know what really happened other than what characters have said. The only clues we really have to go by are what Tink said, the events of Lacey, and the lip service Robin and Marian have given us. If we knew more about his side of the story, I'd be able to wrap my head around the Marian situation ever so slightly better. That's another issue Outlaw Queen has - Robin is so bland and unfilled-out that we have no idea why he even wants Regina.

Very nice thoughts, Curio! The dust is another fuzzy area because of the lack of solid worldbuilding. The show hasn't answered several burning questions about it - What does "soulmates" mean in the show? Can who your soulmate is change to someone else? How do soulmates differ from True Love? These questions might be speculatively answered on these forums, but they haven't been addressed on the show. In fact, A&E were asked what soulmates were, and they totally avoided the question. This show puts in huge blanks we have to fill in in sooo many places. I get they want to leave a lot of the interpretation up to the viewers, but sometimes it's just downright annoying because it doesn't line up no matter how far you tilt your head.

It's for Regina's sake as well. In order for her to get redeemed, she has to see that her actions affect other people. Realizing that other peoples' feelings matter would do a world of good for her arc. If her "redemption" is to be believed from 3B, then it has to carry over to S4. She can't instantly drop it because of a boyfriend. If she learned a lesson from Marian, it would be a huge.

The best case scenario for the Love Triangle of Doom is that Marian and Robin stay together and Regina learns a valuable lesson in consequences. That is, unfortunately, the most unlikely turnout we could get from these writers. You can expect that Robin, even if he were to choose Marian in the end, will be going back to Regina from time to time. In fact, I bet the writers are just itching to draw a parallel because the Triangle of Doom and the Snowing/Kathryn Triangle from S1. Except this time, you can count on Marian being the bad guy unlike the innocent Kathryn. From what we can get, I hope Marian dies or finds someone else. Because if she doesn't, we can prepare for oodles and oodles of Woegina. Her very presence spells trouble because these writers have no intention of giving a decent story to true victim. Even if they tried, you can bet they'd trip themselves doing it. The Marian twist is just too volatile and deep for A&E to follow through with.

Replying in Marian thread.

You can have the same amount of tension with people you aren't related to and your family. Not all close relationships have to have the same DNA, villains very much included. Pan and Zelena could easily have been people who Rumple or Regina ticked off in the past, much like Greg, Hook or probably Elsa. I agree with StealingHome that Daddy Pan could have worked, but the writers chose to tip toe around so they could hide it until the big reveal. We had the opposite problem with Zelena - she was revealed early, and we didn't really need to know she was a sibling of Regina. Zelena's beef wasn't even with Regina herself, but simply the life she got. The person she really should have been mad at was Cora, but misdirected anger runs in the mill (pun) in that family. What should have happened was something that a lot of us speculated - Zelena was lying or wrong about being her sister. Now, with Cora, her being Regina's mother worked perfectly. Cora was relevant to most of the cast, plus she was a huge part of Once's history. She was the mother of the Evil Queen, facilitated her turning into a psycho, tyrannized Wonderland as the Queen of Hearts, and created the Cora Dome. Her blood connection was entirely necessary, because it upped the stakes with Regina as her mother.

I also would have gone along with the idea that Rumple and Pan were childhood friends, and that Pan betrayed him and went to Neverland. Then they would have been antagonists ever since. I like the idea of rivals better than relatives. Same with Regina and Zelena - Wicked vs. Evil would have worked better if they had actually been just rivals. The writers say the blood connection ups the emotional ante, but I never really saw that happening. It's possible to have good, dynamic relationships without being in the same family tree. Shows do that all the time.

I agree. It would have helped if Zelena had a relevant backstory that touched on many aspects and characters, but the only character she had a connection with was Rumple. Cora and Regina didn't know her at all. Pan, contrarily, had his hands in many characters' lives - Hook and his crew, Tink, the Lost Boys, The Darlings, Neal, Rumple, and possibly even Henry. Zelena's existence wasn't even necessary in the grand scheme of things. You can watch everything but 3B and nothing's missing at all. Pan wasn't in your face, but he was a mysterious evil. He was darker, deeper, and more thought-provoking. Zelena, on the other hand, is just a carbon copy of Regina with 20% more crazy eyes. She doesn't bring much to the table at all. At this point, they're just pulling baddies out of a hat. You know, just... random Rumple/Regina haters. There's literally thousands of them, so we might be getting Season 12 where we find out Pocahontas went evil after Rumple killed John Smith.

The very a reason for confirmation is like you said, KAOSAgent. Without it, the writers are going to have a field day with angst. One romantic couple needs to get stable for now, or Marian, the dagger and Captain Swan problems will all be fighting for screen time. I don't believe the writers can just do a plain and simple early relationship without blowing everything up.

The Jolly Roger fights weren't real though. They were caused by a magic storm from the mermaid. Under normal circumstances, they wouldn't be fighting *that* much.

Yes, I agree wingster55. So sick and tired of Charming being Snow's sidekick. He really needs to step up to the plate and stop handwaving all of Snow's dumb decisions!

Captain Swan needs that sort of push to really sell them as a True Love couple. I wouldn't mind if Rumpbelle or Outlaw Queen doesn't work out (I'd be happy, actually), but I'd feel cheated if Captain Swan didn't. They have some of the best chemistry on the show in my opinion as a romance. They haven't fallen victim to poor pacing or twisted morality like other couples on the show have, except for Snowing, but who really cares about them any more? They're in baby land. Captain Swan should really replace them as the strong couple pulling the show, in my opinion. I would be so mad if they broke that pairing or if Hook died, because that would bring Emma's walls up yet again. A TLK or I love you would be perfect for this season. Even if it's a little angsty, I hope it drives them together in the end, not apart. There is fan art that is waaaay better than that. That looks more like a promo for Frozen itself than Once Upon a Time with Frozen. There's not even a hint of Once in the whole thing, except for #OnceIsFrozen. (Which means Once IS Frozen - it's not going to be its own TV show in S4! It's just Frozen now! Harr harr.) But seriously, it's a jump-the-shark banner. It just screams that they're running out of ideas and they're hoping Frozen will carry the weight for them.

Light flickers aren't enough for me, sorry. That's really the only hint she can, but it doesn't prove it. Emma's special, but that doesn't automatically mean she can use magic anywhere. Like many things on the show, the writers are intentionally leaving it ambiguous for now. I don't know why the writers would say there's no magic outside of Storybrooke in the question if that weren't an issue. Either Emma can have magic outside or not. The writers can do either. It's just another subject the writers don't fill in the blanks for, which drives me (and many other viewers) crazy, like a lot of other magic rules and plot holes on this show. It's confusing, because a lot of times you think its one way, then they pull a 180 and eradicate it. Bae can go to the Land Without Magic... then they retcon and put walls up in 3B. There are three laws of magic you can't break no matter how powerful you are, then Zelena comes in and breaks them by slapping some ingredients together in a barn. You can't bring someone back from the dead, then Snow resurrects Charming by tearing her heart in half, thereby negating the price of the curse itself. When someone takes your heart they can control it, then Regina comes in and puts a spell on herself to prevent that. Like really, nothing is set in stone.

That was probably it. I still think being out of Storybrooke negates her ability because they explicitly said she went where there's no magic. To answer the question, they confirmed it by saying even if there was magic she doesn't believe in it. If she doesn't believe in magic, and belief is required for it to work, then those light flickers couldn't have been her using magic.

I can't find the interview anywhere, unfortunately. It was between 3A and 3B. Someone asked if Emma was practicing her magic in New York, and A&E said she couldn't because there's no magic there.

What did she need the dragon for? What episode?