Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

Huh.

According to TwitX, VDO's account no longer exists. (Can't really blame him; the place has gone to the dumps!)

But he was so prolific on there that it sort of surprises me.

[TakomaSnark]

Watching Zoonotic via YTTV DVR again. What a great, exceptionally creepy outing - loved Eames' take-no-shit attitude towards Borman's gross exhibitionism and nice to see early glimpses of James Urbaniak* and Carrie Preston. Even without the follow-up looping Nicole Wallace back into Goren's orbit, this was an outstanding stand-alone hour.

*If you ever want to see him in funny mode, I never get tired of recommending Difficult People (Hulu). Only 28 half-hour episodes and he is a delight.

[WendyCR72]

Meanwhile, Charge! is in the middle of "On Fire". Still warped as hell, but a good episode, although it marked the end for Deakins, naturally.

The marathon continues with "The Good" next [unlike WE, Charge! shows "On Fire" and "The Good" in the proper order!], then ends after "Blind Spot" airs at midnight.

[Xeliou66]

Want, with sicko Tagman, was just on, and while this is a good case, Goren drives me nuts in this one, it’s the one time I was flat out annoyed by him - Carver and Deakins were right, Tagman deserved no sympathy, and Goren was out of line yelling at Carver over Carver wanting to seek the death penalty. Just why did Goren feel sympathy for this dude? I get that Goren could relate to loneliness, but what Tagman did was beyond sick and evil - he drilled into a woman’s skull, poured hot water onto a woman’s brain, and he ate another woman’s calf muscle after he killed her. He tortured two women and killed one, if he was psychotic I would agree it would be wrong to execute him but he was far from psychotic, he knew right from wrong and committed a premeditated torture murder that he carried out with cold precision. Fuck him. This is the only time on the show Goren really pisses me off.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Want, with sicko Tagman, was just on, and while this is a good case, Goren drives me nuts in this one, it’s the one time I was flat out annoyed by him - Carver and Deakins were right, Tagman deserved no sympathy, and Goren was out of line yelling at Carver over Carver wanting to seek the death penalty. Just why did Goren feel sympathy for this dude? I get that Goren could relate to loneliness, but what Tagman did was beyond sick and evil - he drilled into a woman’s skull, poured hot water onto a woman’s brain, and he ate another woman’s calf muscle after he killed her. He tortured two women and killed one, if he was psychotic I would agree it would be wrong to execute him but he was far from psychotic, he knew right from wrong and committed a premeditated torture murder that he carried out with cold precision. Fuck him. This is the only time on the show Goren really pisses me off.

Yeah, I don't know what the show was going for, but between "Semi-Detached" and "Want", with Bobby feeling for the psychos, it wasn't a good look.

Thankfully, the season righted itself, and Bobby went back to normal. (Well, normal for him!)

And, as mentioned, his reaction in S7 in "Kissinger" in dealing with Marla was much better and made sense.

So, I'm just glad that little detour into psycho coddling didn't last.

[Xeliou66]

13 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I don't know what the show was going for, but between "Semi-Detached" and "Want", with Bobby feeling for the psychos, it wasn't a good look.

Thankfully, the season righted itself, and Bobby went back to normal. (Well, normal for him!)

And, as mentioned, his reaction in S7 in "Kissinger" in dealing with Marla was much better and made sense.

So, I'm just glad that little detour into psycho coddling didn't last.

Agreed, I have no idea what the show was going for at the start of season 4, fortunately that didn’t last. But the Tagman case was especially appalling, Tagman was one of the last people who deserved sympathy, he was a disgusting piece of garbage, his actions were monstrous. Goren yelling at Carver over Carver wanting to seek the death penalty really made me annoyed with Goren.

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed, I have no idea what the show was going for at the start of season 4, fortunately that didn’t last. But the Tagman case was especially appalling, Tagman was one of the last people who deserved sympathy, he was a disgusting piece of garbage, his actions were monstrous. Goren yelling at Carver over Carver wanting to seek the death penalty really made me annoyed with Goren.

Which is why I was Team Alex in that episode. She clearly shed no tears when Tagman's death was revealed.

That was the only sane reaction to have.

[WendyCR72]

No idea why it isn't just going forward from tonight's S6 episodes, but a commercial just came on on Charge!, and it is having another marathon on Sunday, starting at noon, going all day...but starting at S1 again, so not sure if anyone is interested, but figured I'd post this just in case!

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Which is why I was Team Alex in that episode. She clearly shed no tears when Tagman's death was revealed.

That was the only sane reaction to have.

Yeah and I thought both Deakins and Carver were right that Tagman didn’t deserve sympathy. Goren bordered on being unprofessional with how pissed he got at Carver, all over a sicko cannibal. 

[WendyCR72]

Just looked at listings for the Sunday marathon. I must have heard the commercial wrong, because listings have the marathon starting with the S3 premiere, "Undaunted Mettle", and going from there.

So it isn't S1, but S3 onward...

[WendyCR72]

The Charge! marathon has "Pravda" airing now, and while I don't condone a father trying to murder his own son, said son really was an arrogant shit as far as his lack of remorse with his plagiarism went.

[WendyCR72]

"Weeping Willow" is on Charge! now, and I gotta say...I would not have shed a tear if Willow really was offed. The whole "is it or isn't it real?" was a different angle, but yeah.

She bugs, for some reason.

[WendyCR72]

And now, "Privilege" is starting, but listings have "World's Fair", while "Privilege" was to have aired at 11.

Wonder if Charge! is flipping the order or just skipping? Guess we'll find out...

[WendyCR72]

Well, Charge! didn't flip the episodes. It is showing "Privilege" again. Why they skipped "World's Fair" as was listed, I have no idea.

Just strange.

Supposedly, "Albatross" airs next.

[Shadow Lass]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:38 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Supposedly, "Albatross" airs next.

Wherein Alex learns one of her idols has feet of clay.

Speaking as we were of season 4, and how strange it was for Goren to speak up for Tagman, it seems to me that, although we talk about season 6 onward being when "soapy" material started to appear, I think in season 4 they were trying to shape Bobby as a more fallible human being. I remember when the series was originally on the network, and also from looking back at discussion groups when I first got interested in CI, that many, many people said they hated the character because he "always has the answers" and that he was insufferably smart. Antiheroes were very popular on other series at that time (House, anyone? A favorite of mine.) and it looks to me as if they were trying to make Goren have more insecurities. Another theme that pops up at least twice in season 4 ("Gone" with the chess player being one of them) is where Goren mentions what happens to people who aren't allowed to do what they're born to do. Could this be where the idea that Goren's detractors thought he was a "whackjob" and unstable came from?

[WendyCR72]

"Silencer" just ended on Charge! and, to this day, I cannot figure out just why Det. Peter Lyons [the interpreter for the deaf] looked so pissy at the end after Goren got Tommy to confess [while being pretty good at sign language himself, if not an expert!].

When Goren sits down next to Lyons, Lyons' arms are crossed, and he looks like he sucked on a bad piece of fruit or something.

I guess, like Logan's odd look in "Tru Love" when Barek's name was mentioned, we'll never know why Lyons was so irked.

And, @Shadow Lass, regarding Goren's detour into psycho sympathizer in S4, you may be right about it being a shortcut by TPTB to make Bobby less perfect, so to speak. But, if so, that was handled badly. They could have done that without making Bobby look like a moron there! (IMO!)

[TakomaSnark]

Quote

"Silencer" just ended on Charge! and, to this day, I cannot figure out just why Det. Peter Lyons [the interpreter for the deaf] looked so pissy at the end after Goren got Tommy to confess [while being pretty good at sign language himself, if not an expert!].

I'll have to watch it again but Lyons definitely was put off by Goren's determination to 'listen in,' so to speak, on an ASL discussion with the grounds being the fight happened in public.

I always thought there was a great spark between Lyons and Eames and was disappointed they never found a reason to bring him back.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

I'll have to watch it again but Lyons definitely was put off by Goren's determination to 'listen in,' so to speak, on an ASL discussion with the grounds being the fight happened in public.

Yes, but the pissy part was at the very end, when Lyons was translating Goren's sign language to Eames.

And Goren did come around to Lyons' POV when that ditzy DA [who had NO business being there since - wasn't the victim her fiancé?!] wanted someone to tell her what was being said in the interrogation room and Lyons AND Goren refused. So I don't think that was the reason.

And agree to disagree on Lyons. To me, Alex seemed to sour on him halfway through [cafeteria discussion] and the whole deal seemed tacked on and pointless. Again, just my take as far as that went. Mileage and all...

I recall Alex asking Lyons at the cafeteria if he was angry because the suspect was deaf [weird, but...], so I'm wondering if his pouting at the end had to do with the fact that Tommy was indeed guilty? Shrug.

[WendyCR72]

Can't imagine there will be a lot of viewers that day, but updated listings have Charge! having a Thanksgiving Day CI Marathon, all day and night.

The difference with this one, however, is that there is no discernible season/order, i.e. an episode from S1 will air, followed by, say, a S6 episode and so on...

[TakomaSnark]

'Amends.' I will never not recognize Emilio Delgado's voice from Sesame Street 💜

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

'Amends.' I will never not recognize Emilio Delgado's voice from Sesame Street 💜

He was also in "Pas De Deux" in S3, the bank robber/bomb episode.

[TakomaSnark]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

He was also in "Pas De Deux" in S3, the bank robber/bomb episode.

Dang, I don't remember him there, will have to pull that one up later tonight.

[WendyCR72]

Ah, "Betrayed" has just started. The scene with ol' Chuck Schumer came up when I turned on the TV.

Which does make me wonder: I wonder if he gets any residuals from the episode? That would be weird. Oh, well.

In any case, I do like how G/E thaw in this one, even if Ross is insufferable.

[Xeliou66]

53 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Ah, "Betrayed" has just started. The scene with ol' Chuck Schumer came up when I turned on the TV.

Which does make me wonder: I wonder if he gets any residuals from the episode? That would be weird. Oh, well.

In any case, I do like how G/E thaw in this one, even if Ross is insufferable.

I like Betrayed for the case - but my god Ross is at his worst in this one, even more of a douche than normal. The case was predictable but still compelling and it felt more like a “classic” CI case than a lot of the soapy melodrama that CI had during those seasons. But god Ross is such an ass, so damn condescending to the detectives. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I like Betrayed for the case - but my god Ross is at his worst in this one, even more of a douche than normal. The case was predictable but still compelling and it felt more like a “classic” CI case than a lot of the soapy melodrama that CI had during those seasons. But god Ross is such an ass, so damn condescending to the detectives. 

Ross' "not one word, detective!" to Bobby at the end was just the cherry on the shitty Ross sundae in this episode.

He couldn't even apologize to Bobby for being right!

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Ross' "not one word, detective!" to Bobby at the end was just the cherry on the shitty Ross sundae in this episode.

He couldn't even apologize to Bobby for being right!

Yep, Ross was a steaming turd in this episode, even more so than he normally was. I really can’t stand him, such a condescending, rude ass to his detectives. And it will always piss me off that this shithead got way more screen time than Deakins did.

[Xeliou66]

My all time favorite episode, In The Wee Small Hours, is on Sundance now - part 1 just ended, part 2 starting now - I love seeing Goren/Logan play off of each other dealing with Ethan, the scene where they searched the house and got Ethan to assault Logan was great. I really liked the dynamic between the 2 pairs of detectives. Eames’ “ocean’s two” line was great. 

[peacheslatour]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

My all time favorite episode, In The Wee Small Hours, is on Sundance now - part 1 just ended, part 2 starting now - I love seeing Goren/Logan play off of each other dealing with Ethan, the scene where they searched the house and got Ethan to assault Logan was great. I really liked the dynamic between the 2 pairs of detectives. Eames’ “ocean’s two” line was great. 

I saw it too. Great episode. I have a new Eamesism - she walked into Goren's office and he had pictures or documents spread out all over the floor. "I didn't know you could play Twister by yourself."

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I saw it too. Great episode. I have a new Eamesism - she walked into Goren's office and he had pictures or documents spread out all over the floor. "I didn't know you could play Twister by yourself."

I liked the line in "Slither" when she went into the room where Bobby had typewriter font examples all over the walls:

"I totally forgot I need an eye exam!"

"Neighborhood Watch" is ending on Charge! now with "Last Rites", "Frame", and "Playing Dead" rounding things out at midnight.

[WendyCR72]

I see "Lady's Man" is starting off the Charge! block. As I said, I like this one as Alex gets to shine.

But I will never get how so many thought Mulrooney could sound like a woman. Or Alex leaving her apartment unlocked, etc.

[peacheslatour]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I see "Lady's Man" is starting off the Charge! block. As I said, I like this one as Alex gets to shine.

But I will never get how so many thought Mulrooney could sound like a woman. Or Alex leaving her apartment unlocked, etc.

I know a lot of people are Benson/Barba shippers but my first exposure to him was Lady's Man. I just can never see him in a romantic way.

[Xeliou66]

18 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I know a lot of people are Benson/Barba shippers but my first exposure to him was Lady's Man. I just can never see him in a romantic way.

Raul Esparza is a great actor - he was very convincing as the murderous creepy prosecutor here and as Barba on SVU - two very different characters. He also played a sleazy suspect in a season 20 episode of the Mothership. Barba was my favorite ADA on SVU, at least he was until they ruined his character and made him Benson’s bitch boy. It’s a travesty what SVU did to Barba, that show has really just become a parody of itself a lot of the time. I know the Mothership revival gets a lot of criticism, and it’s definitely not as good as the Mothership was on its original run and has its flaws, but it’s a lot better than the shitshow that is SVU now. 

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

Raul Esparza is a great actor - he was very convincing as the murderous creepy prosecutor here and as Barba on SVU - two very different characters. He also played a sleazy suspect in a season 20 episode of the Mothership. Barba was my favorite ADA on SVU, at least he was until they ruined his character and made him Benson’s bitch boy. It’s a travesty what SVU did to Barba, that show has really just become a parody of itself a lot of the time. I know the Mothership revival gets a lot of criticism, and it’s definitely not as good as the Mothership was on its original run and has its flaws, but it’s a lot better than the shitshow that is SVU now. 

He was just alright to me. My favorite ADA will always be Alex Cabot.

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

He was just alright to me. My favorite ADA will always be Alex Cabot.

Interesting - I like Cabot as well, hell I’ve liked all of the main SVU ADA’s pretty good (Alex Cabot, Casey Novak, Barba, Peter Stone and now Carisi), unfortunately they’ve trashed all of them except for Carisi - I disliked when they had Cabot come back only to make her a borderline vigilante, that came out of left field. Barba is my favorite, he added a real spark to the show that it needed, it’s an absolute travesty what SVU did to him. 

[TakomaSnark]

16 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I see "Lady's Man" is starting off the Charge! block. As I said, I like this one as Alex gets to shine.

But I will never get how so many thought Mulrooney could sound like a woman. Or Alex leaving her apartment unlocked, etc.

I laugh every time the camera would linger on those red acrylic nails (those weren't Lee Press Ons!)n but then we are supposed to believe that Mulrooney was literally going into and out of them multiple times a day which is not how acrylic nails work. 

I agree with liking the episode for the Alex side of things. 

[peacheslatour]

43 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

I laugh every time the camera would linger on those red acrylic nails (those weren't Lee Press Ons!)n but then we are supposed to believe that Mulrooney was literally going into and out of them multiple times a day which is not how acrylic nails work. 

I agree with liking the episode for the Alex side of things. 

OMG! I was thinking the same thing. Great minds. 😆

[WendyCR72]

With nothing else on, I checked Charge! and, yep, CI is on. Though tonight's block is a hodgepodge: "The War At Home" [nearing its end now!], then "Endgame" from S6, then the Tates episode "Untethered" from S7, and to round the marathon out, jumping to S10 with "The Last Street In Manhattan" [which I have said is my favorite episode from the final season so - yay!].

So a little of this and a little of that...

[Xeliou66]

20 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

With nothing else on, I checked Charge! and, yep, CI is on. Though tonight's block is a hodgepodge: "The War At Home" [nearing its end now!], then "Endgame" from S6, the the Tates episode "Untethered" from S7, and to round the marathon out, jumping to S10 with "The Last Street In Manhattan" [which I have said is my favorite episode from the final season so - yay!].

So a little of this and a little of that...

An odd collection of episodes. I don’t care for the first 3 but I’ll probably watch The Last Street in Manhattan, football will be over for the day by then and I’ll watch that episode before I go to sleep, it might be my favorite from season 10 as well, although I like all 8 episodes from season 10. I’m really glad the show got a strong goodbye and Goren regained his mojo.

[WendyCR72]

I will say, as far as "Endgame" is concerned, the visual work on the bodies of the victims found in the wall of the apartment building that Brady led G/E to [scene actually just aired!] were appropriately creepy. (The second body seen in the morgue with Rodgers along with the other one that Alex unearthed with the pocket knife.)

So the visual artistry was on point.

[WendyCR72]

Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate.

As a reminder, there is a Thanksgiving CI marathon on Charge! all day and through 1:00 a.m., different episodes/seasons, if you need a break from football.

[TakomaSnark]

6 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate.

As a reminder, there is a Thanksgiving CI marathon on Charge! all day and through 1:00 a.m., different episodes/seasons, if you need a break from football.

OH YEAH!

[Xeliou66]

9 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate.

As a reminder, there is a Thanksgiving CI marathon on Charge! all day and through 1:00 a.m., different episodes/seasons, if you need a break from football.

Happy Thanksgiving!

I wonder how they selected the episodes on Charge today, because they are all over the place, throughout various seasons with no particular order to them. I see that To The Bone is about to start on Charge, I dislike the open ended nature of that episode with how you don’t know whether the murderers would be put away for good or not, plus it’s the start of the weak exit story for Deakins, I’ve mentioned before how I really dislike Deakins’ exit storyline. So not my favorite episode. But there are some good ones coming up later. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

OH YEAH!

Always loved the dance Bobby did here. I'd also like to think he was happy because Eames was back on the job!

[Broderbits]

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I wonder how they selected the episodes on Charge today, because they are all over the place, throughout various seasons with no particular order to them.

I think they were selected because of famous actors in the cast,e.g. Whoopie Goldberg, Oscar Isaac, J. Smith Cameron(Geri from Succession).

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, Broderbits said:

I think they were selected because of famous actors in the cast,e.g. Whoopie Goldberg, Oscar Isaac, J. Smith Cameron(Geri from Succession).

I think you may be on to something. Because there was also Tom Arnold in "Brother's Keeper", Neil Patrick Harris in "Want" [the last of the marathon last night, which I skipped!], Judd Hirsch in "Pravda", and so on...

[WendyCR72]

I wonder if S9 was a drag on the ratings for Charge! or something?

The listings had the last two S9 episodes, "Inhumane Society" and "Three In One", listed for 9:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m.

But "The Consoler" is on now. Not that I'm complaining. I love S10 but still weird.

[peacheslatour]

52 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I think you may be on to something. Because there was also Tom Arnold in "Brother's Keeper", Neil Patrick Harris in "Want" [the last of the marathon last night, which I skipped!], Judd Hirsch in "Pravda", and so on...

They had the one with Stephen Colbert too.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

I wonder if S9 was a drag on the ratings for Charge! or something?

The listings had the last two S9 episodes, "Inhumane Society" and "Three In One", listed for 9:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m.

But "The Consoler" is on now. Not that I'm complaining. I love S10 but still weird.

They aired the S9 episodes earlier today, when CI wasn’t scheduled to air, I checked the channel then and it was on, that was odd. 
I’m watching Boots On The Ground now, this is a good episode. I love how season 10 returned to the more complex mysteries CI was known for and eliminated the soapy shit.

[Xeliou66]

Just watched The Good Doctor on Charge, this is one of my all time favorite CI episodes, a really well done plot. More simple and straightforward than most CI plots, but that’s not a bad thing, it’s a very compelling episode. Kelmer was a memorable, cold blooded villain, and Goren was at his best in this episode investigating him and getting under his skin, vintage Goren. Carver in court is the other thing that makes this episode awesome, the court scenes were great, it’s such a shame that Carver didn’t get many court scenes because he was terrific in this episode. Like I say, it’s pretty straightforward in that we know most of what happened before the detectives even start their investigation, but the investigation played out very well, I liked how they pieced together the facts. It’s a great episode.

Enemy Within is on now, this is one of season 1’s weaker episodes IMO, a bit too convoluted and contrived. But The Third Horseman and Crazy are up next and those are great episodes. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

But The Third Horseman and Crazy are up next and those are great episodes. 

They are. But "Crazy" is still filled with such unlikable people, including the victim.