Home Improvement - General Discussion

[Katy M]

38 minutes ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

So I went to look at the UP TV schedule a few days ago, and noticed that the usual Home Improvement Sunday marathon wasn’t there.

It turns out that UP already started their Christmas programming.

So has Hallmark.  I refuse to watch a Christmas movie until Thanksgiving.

[Was-MArsenault]

38 minutes ago, Katy M said:

So has Hallmark.  I refuse to watch a Christmas movie until Thanksgiving.

I already know that, but thank you.

[Was-MArsenault]

Another thing to notice is that Laff has been doing some changes to the show.

Today's schedule:

Episodes 13 and 14 of Season 5 are flip-flopped. 14 will be airing first, and 13 will be after.

9:00's episode has Season 2, Episode 6 in place of one of the Season 8 episodes. Episodes 18 and 19 of Season 8 will not be shown.

Tomorrow: No changes in the morning and afternoon. However, a Season 6 episode and a Season 3 episode will be shown at night. Episodes 18 and 19 of Season 8 will be shown.

Wednesday: No changes during the day. Episodes 15 and 6 of Season 4 will be shown at night.

Thursday: Some episodes of Season 6 and 8 are skipped.

Friday: Some episodes of Season 6 and a bunch of Season 1 episodes are not shown.

However, the episodes that were skipped will eventually be shown at a later date.

Same with Monday, November 4.

[andromeda331]

On 10/21/2019 at 4:58 PM, readster said:

Right and then you start adding in the teachers at the school being very odd. Brad is getting articles printed, when his articles are just basic and really something you would see on Instagram in this day and age. Randy is being kicked to later pages over stuff he researched and had things that WOULD MATTER to the school. NONE of Mark's teachers are wondering why he went goth out of nowhere. Jill is worried left and right, Tim has no idea what has happened, but wants to wait it out. Yet... gets concerned when Mark is doing odd things that make no sense. Instead of calling the school and vice versa, they do NOTHING. Yeah, Jill see's Ronnie's parents in therpy, but doesn't go: "Umm... so why is your kid always hanging around and why the HELL Is your kid all goth when you guys seem pretty normal?" Bud is nowhere to be seen, yet tons of different people are telling Tim what to do with the show. Huh?

     It is odd that the teachers would let basically gossip end up on the first page of the newspaper. They usually would have the kids put important stuff on the front page. It does still surprise me no one talks to Mark. He suddenly goes Goth Jill worries but decides not talk to him. Tim wants to wait it out which makes no sense. His teachers would definitely be calling his parents or making him talk with the school guidance counselor just to check in. They always did that when student suddenly makes a drastic change.  Make sure he's okay. And on the more sadder note making sure that student isn't going to do anything. I know we're a couple years before Columbine but there had been school shootings before that generally thought to be kids who were picked on or suddenly made dramatic changes. At least at my schools they were all over that making sure it was just a new phase or something deeper and making sure the change isn't due to a problem he's having, problems at home or etc. But no one does. It makes no sense that no one does. Not even just to check in? Make sure everything's okay. Maybe he won't say anything. But they should have each tried.

With Bud it really would have be helpful or made more sense if there was some hierarchy at Binford/Tool Time rather then having someone on for episode and then someone different another time. Or since Bud's actor was really busy at the time recast the role with an actor who can be there more often. Most of the other people were so bad at their jobs its hard to imagine how they got hired. Like the moron in the episode when their trying to sell the show to the Swedes who waited until that very day to tell Tim the guest stars they booked couldn't make it. Then spends the episode panicked and acting like Tim was messing up the show when it was his fault. He knew the Andrettis had backed out and didn't find anyone else to replace it nor did he tell Tim about it until the very day. 

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

So has Hallmark.  I refuse to watch a Christmas movie until Thanksgiving.

I wish they would wait until after Thanksgiving. They air 24/7 rerunning the same movies over and over in addition to their new ones. Do they really need to rerun a movie five times? Ten times? No. They could wait until Thanksgiving or the day after and still run every movie more then once.

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

So I went to look at the UP TV schedule a few days ago, and noticed that the usual Home Improvement Sunday marathon wasn’t there.

It turns out that UP already started their Christmas programming.

Thanks I had a feeling they were going to start before Halloween but couldn't remembered.

[readster]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

     It is odd that the teachers would let basically gossip end up on the first page of the newspaper. They usually would have the kids put important stuff on the front page. It does still surprise me no one talks to Mark. He suddenly goes Goth Jill worries but decides not talk to him. Tim wants to wait it out which makes no sense. His teachers would definitely be calling his parents or making him talk with the school guidance counselor just to check in. They always did that when student suddenly makes a drastic change.  Make sure he's okay. And on the more sadder note making sure that student isn't going to do anything. I know we're a couple years before Columbine but there had been school shootings before that generally thought to be kids who were picked on or suddenly made dramatic changes. At least at my schools they were all over that making sure it was just a new phase or something deeper and making sure the change isn't due to a problem he's having, problems at home or etc. But no one does. It makes no sense that no one does. Not even just to check in? Make sure everything's okay. Maybe he won't say anything. But they should have each tried.

Right and except for the horror movie episode, no one batted an eye. I mean even Wilson and Al didn't go: "Mark... this seems a bit too far even for you." Oh no, just keep going, everything is fine. Hell, I wanted someone to go to Ronnie and say: "Do you actually talk of should I try poking you with a needle to see if you can do anything but stare and chuckle." it was SOOO STUPID!

Quote

With Bud it really would have be helpful or made more sense if there was some hierarchy at Binford/Tool Time rather then having someone on for episode and then someone different another time. Or since Bud's actor was really busy at the time recast the role with an actor who can be there more often. Most of the other people were so bad at their jobs its hard to imagine how they got hired. Like the moron in the episode when their trying to sell the show to the Swedes who waited until that very day to tell Tim the guest stars they booked couldn't make it. Then spends the episode panicked and acting like Tim was messing up the show when it was his fault. He knew the Andrettis had backed out and didn't find anyone else to replace it nor did he tell Tim about it until the very day. 

Yeah, and when it goes back to it too, why wasn't Tim or Al even exec producers of Tool Time by then? They knew what to do. They knew what worked, yet it was constantly someone else, who was just an idiot. Morgan at the end of the series was just the icing on the cake. Showing just another string of people who didn't KNOW ANYTHING about making the show successful. If anything, they screwed with getting the show ruined.

[Was-MArsenault]

On 10/28/2019 at 2:26 PM, andromeda331 said:

Thanks I had a feeling they were going to start before Halloween but couldn't remembered.

You're welcome.

[Was-MArsenault]

Halloween episodes that Laff will be showing tonight:

I Was A Teenage Taylor from Season 6

A Night To Dismember from Season 7

Bewitched from Season 8

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Halloween episodes that Laff will be showing tonight:

I Was A Teenage Taylor from Season 6

A Night To Dismember from Season 7

Bewitched from Season 8

That's great. I Was A Teenage Taylor is the best one out of the three. I do really love Bewitched especially the cop who's clearly having fun being the "bad" cop even though Tim would have caught on that it was a prank early on or at least by the time Jill was unable to alibi him.  A Night to Disremember is would be great if not for the weird parts Mark wanting to use a real weapon and Jill thinking their son wanted to kill them. I wish they cut those parts and just stuck with the fun of making a horror movie. That would be so much fun.    I think my favorite is the Haunting of Taylor House. They did a good job and Brad not realizing why Jennifer's mad at him and Tim explain it to him. Crazy for you is a great episode probably third after I Was Teenage Taylor I love the costumes and the stocking prank. I love the boys dressing up as the Stooges or well one Stooge they really seem like the type that would love the Three Stooges. The Halloween one where Brad throws a party without telling is parents is probably last I do love the costumes and Al accept an award wearing a mouse costume and his speech some how fitting his costume. But don't like that Wilson told Brad he wouldn't say anything to his parents even though he says right before he'd been watching for an hour so he had to have seen underage kids drinking and Randy get thrown out of the house. He really should have intervened at that point or have him arrived after that (although he still would have had to seen there were kids underaged drinking). I do love Tim's and Jill's pointing out to Brad that he and Jill would be responsible if anything had happened.  

[Was-MArsenault]

Home Improvement will be returning to UP starting on December 3.

[catlover79]

Look who played a bit role as a nurse in a 1979 episode of the long-defunct NBC soap opera The Doctors, currently being rerun on Retro TV:

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, catlover79 said:

Look who played a bit role as a nurse in a 1979 episode of the long-defunct NBC soap opera The Doctors, currently being rerun on Retro TV:

I had no idea she was on The Doctors!

On 11/22/2019 at 3:44 PM, MikaelaArsenault said:

Home Improvement will be returning to UP starting on December 3.

That's great!

[Was-MArsenault]

9 hours ago, catlover79 said:

Look who played a bit role as a nurse in a 1979 episode of the long-defunct NBC soap opera The Doctors, currently being rerun on Retro TV:

It's Patricia!

[Was-MArsenault]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I had no idea she was on The Doctors!

That's great!

It really is, and it's nice to see the show return again after being on a break for so long.

Unfortunately though, it's going to be on really early in the morning.

[catlover79]

21 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I had no idea she was on The Doctors!

Ironically, look who played a crooked detective on the same soap back in 1974!!

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, catlover79 said:

Ironically, look who played a crooked detective on the same soap back in 1974!!

No way!

[Was-MArsenault]

7 hours ago, catlover79 said:

Ironically, look who played a crooked detective on the same soap back in 1974!!

Wilson?!

[catlover79]

3 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Wilson?!

Yup!! The following year, Earl Hindman joined the original cast of the brand-new soap, Ryan's Hope, and stayed for most of its 13 1/2 year run. A couple of years after RH was cancelled, he became Wilson and the rest is history!! 😎

Edited November 27, 2019 by catlover79

[catlover79]

Here's Pat Richardson again on The Doctors, March 1979:

[readster]

On 10/31/2019 at 1:37 PM, andromeda331 said:

That's great. I Was A Teenage Taylor is the best one out of the three. I do really love Bewitched especially the cop who's clearly having fun being the "bad" cop even though Tim would have caught on that it was a prank early on or at least by the time Jill was unable to alibi him.  A Night to Disremember is would be great if not for the weird parts Mark wanting to use a real weapon and Jill thinking their son wanted to kill them. I wish they cut those parts and just stuck with the fun of making a horror movie. That would be so much fun.    I think my favorite is the Haunting of Taylor House. They did a good job and Brad not realizing why Jennifer's mad at him and Tim explain it to him. Crazy for you is a great episode probably third after I Was Teenage Taylor I love the costumes and the stocking prank. I love the boys dressing up as the Stooges or well one Stooge they really seem like the type that would love the Three Stooges. The Halloween one where Brad throws a party without telling is parents is probably last I do love the costumes and Al accept an award wearing a mouse costume and his speech some how fitting his costume. But don't like that Wilson told Brad he wouldn't say anything to his parents even though he says right before he'd been watching for an hour so he had to have seen underage kids drinking and Randy get thrown out of the house. He really should have intervened at that point or have him arrived after that (although he still would have had to seen there were kids underaged drinking). I do love Tim's and Jill's pointing out to Brad that he and Jill would be responsible if anything had happened.  

I'm in agreement with your choice of Halloween episodes. Yes, the Brad party one is 50/50. It made context with both the age of the and characters. However, when you add in Wilson's reaction to things and how the police WEREN'T called at that point. Plus, then us getting Brad's new BFF for the next few episodes of the season. Don't make sense. 

[Was-MArsenault]

Patricia Richardson talking about A Christmas In Tennessee:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wpqbYZWnfl4

Patricia talking about Home Improvement:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0zHH7a6BbzI

http://www.playbill.com/article/home-improvements-patricia-richardson-says-she-had-to-find-her-voice-again-for-cruel-intentions-musical

[andromeda331]

On 12/16/2019 at 4:40 PM, MikaelaArsenault said:

Patricia Richardson talking about A Christmas In Tennessee:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wpqbYZWnfl4

Patricia talking about Home Improvement:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0zHH7a6BbzI

http://www.playbill.com/article/home-improvements-patricia-richardson-says-she-had-to-find-her-voice-again-for-cruel-intentions-musical

I liked hearing her talking about trying to tell HI writers about what women wouldn't say or do. Didn't like hearing them blowing her off. Although I can't say I'm surprised there's still a lot of that now. I'd love to know what episodes and/or storylines she tried to tell them that's not what a woman would say or do. Its also really nice to know she was trying. 

[Was-MArsenault]

I've been noticing lately that Laff is showing the episodes out of order now, and that they didn’t show 'Twas The Blight Before Christmas today.

[readster]

On 12/18/2019 at 5:13 PM, andromeda331 said:

I liked hearing her talking about trying to tell HI writers about what women wouldn't say or do. Didn't like hearing them blowing her off. Although I can't say I'm surprised there's still a lot of that now. I'd love to know what episodes and/or storylines she tried to tell them that's not what a woman would say or do. Its also really nice to know she was trying. 

It would explain the times that Jill was so off her rocker or how they started pushing Jill's bad tendencies like other TV series as the show kept going. 

[andromeda331]

On 12/20/2019 at 7:41 PM, readster said:

It would explain the times that Jill was so off her rocker or how they started pushing Jill's bad tendencies like other TV series as the show kept going. 

It really would. The writing for Jill always seemed off and it only got worse. There's a lot of times when Jill did do or say something that really didn't seem like what a woman/wife/mother would say or do.  It always seemed odd that the writers didn't seem to notice it. Learning that they were all men makes more sense. Male writers can write female characters and do a good job. But clearly that really wasn't these male writers. I do like that Patricia noticed too and tried to say something. You always wonder if the actress notices stuff like that or not. Jill easily could have been fixed with a couple tweeks. The biggest one being when she was wrong to admit it and apologize just like the rest of the characters had to do. Actually show us she was good at helping people fix problems or just pick another career for Jill. Its interesting that the writers would borrow or take Patricia's suggestions regarding how marriage broke up to use for Marty's marriage breaking up and the problem in Heidi's marriage and Patricia's hysterectomy but not her input about what women would or wouldn't say. 

[readster]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It really would. The writing for Jill always seemed off and it only got worse. There's a lot of times when Jill did do or say something that really didn't seem like what a woman/wife/mother would say or do.  It always seemed odd that the writers didn't seem to notice it. Learning that they were all men makes more sense. Male writers can write female characters and do a good job. But clearly that really wasn't these male writers. I do like that Patricia noticed too and tried to say something. You always wonder if the actress notices stuff like that or not. Jill easily could have been fixed with a couple tweeks. The biggest one being when she was wrong to admit it and apologize just like the rest of the characters had to do. Actually show us she was good at helping people fix problems or just pick another career for Jill. Its interesting that the writers would borrow or take Patricia's suggestions regarding how marriage broke up to use for Marty's marriage breaking up and the problem in Heidi's marriage and Patricia's hysterectomy but not her input about what women would or wouldn't say. 

Exactly! It also seemed why things seemed off at times too with Jill's perspective on things, even though they based pieces of what was going on in Patricia's life for some of the major changes in the other characters on the show. Even how Jill would go on how when things did go well for Tim, she felt she had to knock him down with a: "You are going to pay for this sometime later." Why? Sounds more like someone who is just plain jealous and let's face it. What did Jill have to be jealous about?

[andromeda331]

On 12/22/2019 at 7:29 PM, readster said:

Exactly! It also seemed why things seemed off at times too with Jill's perspective on things, even though they based pieces of what was going on in Patricia's life for some of the major changes in the other characters on the show. Even how Jill would go on how when things did go well for Tim, she felt she had to knock him down with a: "You are going to pay for this sometime later." Why? Sounds more like someone who is just plain jealous and let's face it. What did Jill have to be jealous about?

She always seemed to knock him down. I don't know why either. In those times it really made you wonder why Jill married Tim. She never missed a chance to put down Tool Time. Sure it was a tool show but it was also paid all of the bills, it supported the entire family including Jill who from what they showed us only worked maybe a couple years their whole marriage? It was dumb, it was lame, people who watched were stupid. I mean, did she want the show to fail? Did she want Tim to fail? Did she want the family to be broke? Its same with her constantly complaining about his tools, cars, and sports. Why marry someone like Tim if she hates all that stuff? Why not marry someone who loved opera, ballet and art? Its really hard to understand why they constantly wrote Jill that way that made you wonder why she married Tim in the first place.  

[readster]

18 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

She always seemed to knock him down. I don't know why either. In those times it really made you wonder why Jill married Tim. She never missed a chance to put down Tool Time. Sure it was a tool show but it was also paid all of the bills, it supported the entire family including Jill who from what they showed us only worked maybe a couple years their whole marriage? It was dumb, it was lame, people who watched were stupid. I mean, did she want the show to fail? Did she want Tim to fail? Did she want the family to be broke? Its same with her constantly complaining about his tools, cars, and sports. Why marry someone like Tim if she hates all that stuff? Why not marry someone who loved opera, ballet and art? Its really hard to understand why they constantly wrote Jill that way that made you wonder why she married Tim in the first place.  

Right and then made jokes how she was pulled to the alter "kicking and screaming" then had it where even the crossing guard tried to talk her out of marrying Tim? It wasn't funny, it was along the lines of: "They how the hell did you get married, not to mention for 20 years." Same goes with how the boys all were. Brad was the most like Tim from thought process to loving cars. The only difference was that Brad was an athlete and Tim and Jill outside of Jill being a cheerleader in high school, weren't. Randy was the most uncommon of all of them, he was honor roll (ok Jill was good in school too). However, he loved to write, was great at computers, played games and yes, even read comics. Mark was the one that Jill tried to get more like the "daughter she never had" and the first couple of seasons. I got how Tim wanted Mark to be more like him, classic "youngest son" scenario. However... around season 4, when they wanted Mark to be "more different" and that's when things just went out the door. 

 But back to Jill, it got to the point where Jill seem to resent everything Tim or the boys enjoyed. Outside of maybe Randy's writing, it got to the point where you were waiting for all the boys to just leave Jill alone to: school, bossing everyone around and her weird habits of joining things and then quitting right afterwards. I'm surprise that Patricia didn't get to the point where she didn't say: "So, at this point, does Jill like anything?"

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, readster said:

Right and then made jokes how she was pulled to the alter "kicking and screaming" then had it where even the crossing guard tried to talk her out of marrying Tim? It wasn't funny, it was along the lines of: "They how the hell did you get married, not to mention for 20 years." 

back to Jill, it got to the point where Jill seem to resent everything Tim or the boys enjoyed. Outside of maybe Randy's writing, it got to the point where you were waiting for all the boys to just leave Jill alone to: school, bossing everyone around and her weird habits of joining things and then quitting right afterwards. I'm surprise that Patricia didn't get to the point where she didn't say: "So, at this point, does Jill like anything?

Yes, how everyone warned her against marrying Tim. Her parents, the crossing guard, the minister. It really wasn't funny. Tim really isn't a bad guy. Yeah he can be a moron and gets crazy with always wanting more power and not always serious. But he also worked hard. You don't become Binford's number one salesperson by not working hard. That and his friendship with Binford paid off with Tool Time where he had to be making a ton of money he supported their entire family, Jill's college classes, car parts, cars and nice trips. Its really kind of weird (but very common on TV) where everyone seems to pile on the one person actually supporting the family by his father-in-law and his wife. Both make no sense the Colonel hates Tim because? Sure he can be annoying but he's support the Colonel's daughter and grandchildren completely, he's worked at the same place and worked his way up, he's there helping to raise their kids. And unlike that one son-in-law Tim has never once dated any of Jill's sisters. What is there to hate? Same with Jill. Why does she like so much putting him down? Why does she constantly dismiss Tim's likes and everything else all the time? Why did she marry him? Why is she still constantly surprised Tim wants to stay home and watch the game instead of going out to dinner? Jill constantly acts like she's annoyed by him or that she hasn't met him before. If it was drama you'd almost think Jill either hates Tim or is jealous of his success and talents. She is after all the academia. The smart one as she loves to point out. But she's never had a successful career, she doesn't seem to keep friends or hobbies.  Tim's even a better cook then her.

 

Quote

 Same goes with how the boys all were. Brad was the most like Tim from thought process to loving cars. The only difference was that Brad was an athlete and Tim and Jill outside of Jill being a cheerleader in high school, weren't. Randy was the most uncommon of all of them, he was honor roll (ok Jill was good in school too). However, he loved to write, was great at computers, played games and yes, even read comics. Mark was the one that Jill tried to get more like the "daughter she never had" and the first couple of seasons. I got how Tim wanted Mark to be more like him, classic "youngest son" scenario. However... around season 4, when they wanted Mark to be "more different" and that's when things just went out the door. " 

I'm always surprised they didn't have Jill do anything with Randy once he got interested in writing and causes. She worked for that magazine where she ended up doing different articles. And she loves causes. Jill's always looking for a cause. She mentioned she used to protest. You'd think she'd be with Randy talking about the environmental issues, health and other problems. But she really doesn't do anything with it. You'd think that part came from Jill. Brad is probably the most similar to Tim they love cars but also really into playing sports. You know its funny given what huge sports fan Tim is he never really talks about getting to see his son playing professional soccer or anything. Jill doesn't really think much of it despite Brad clearly wanting to try and go pro. She doesn't do anything to support it or even research what Brad needs to do to become a pro soccer player. That's clear with her having no idea that Brad playing pro soccer in England is the biggest chance he could get or later tries to convince him not to play when the scout is visiting saying he could always tryout next year. Even if she doesn't like the sport you'd think Jill would have taken time to find out what her son needs to do to go pro. Tim didn't really research it either but when he met Wilson's friend he recognized it was a big chance for Brad. Jill never did. She has zero problems talking Brad out of it but goes off on Tim when he did try to do the same for Randy even though in his case it was more out of them both missing Randy. It was wrong but understandable and Tim corrected it. Jill of course never thought she did anything wrong to Brad. Brad never was upset like he should have been.

I always wondered about Mark. Jill really did seem to try and make him the daughter she never had. She wanted him to get involved in ballet and other stuff because she liked it. I get that she wanted her kids to share her interests (and she seemed to miss that Randy did share her interests in writing and causes) but she tries hard to get him interested in ballet, baking and other thing. Did Mark really like the ballet and baking? Or did he just like it because Jill did? Mark helped Tim out with the car and tools too. But again I'm not sure if he actually liked it or because Tim did. Later seasons Mark has zero interests in anything that Jill or Tim liked. Both parents tried to manipulate him into liking what they like. Jill when she tries to convince him to take gymnastics lessons instead of karate despite making Tim promise not to influence him and kept trying to convince Mark who kept picking karate. Tim did the similar thing earlier when Jill made him take Mark to the ballet and Wilson gave him basketball tickets. He tried hard to convince him to go to the basketball game instead. They went to both Mark ended up liking the ballet best. But its hard to tell the show tended to forget about Mark most of the time. They forgot he took karate lessons and flying lesson.

Edited December 25, 2019 by andromeda331

[Was-MArsenault]

Earlier today, Laff showed a Home Improvement marathon that consisted of a bunch of skipped episodes that weren’t shown including 'Twas The Blight Before Christmas.

[readster]

20 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 They went to both Mark ended up liking the ballet best. But its hard to tell the show tended to forget about Mark most of the time. They forgot he took karate lessons and flying lesson.

Right and there was nothing wrong with Mark later learning he had a passion for filming and video, but... Mark was involved in a lot of great things. The flying lessons would have been great, but it was just dropped because the writers wanted Mark to be "more different" until they got bored and had no idea what to do with Goth Mark. I felt they kept Brad and Randy consistent as the show went on. I get that things change over the course of 8 seasons, but there were times you could tell they were making it up as they went. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, readster said:

Right and there was nothing wrong with Mark later learning he had a passion for filming and video, but... Mark was involved in a lot of great things. The flying lessons would have been great, but it was just dropped because the writers wanted Mark to be "more different" until they got bored and had no idea what to do with Goth Mark. I felt they kept Brad and Randy consistent as the show went on.

Yeah they were more consistent with Brad's and Randy's personalities and interests. Mark was the only one they kept dropping his interests he liked the ballet but it didn't ever come up again. One episode he likes baking but that never comes up again. He took karate lessons which they forgot about along with him taking plane lessons. I don't think they really figured out his personality or interests until he got interested in film. I was interested at first when they gave him that and he went Goth. He finally had an interest that didn't disappear after an episode. But then they didn't do anything with it. They just give him one weird friend who doesn't say anything. They could have done a lot with it. Give him a girlfriend. Or do more things in Goth. Listen to the music, hang out with more then one friend, something. But didn't. Its too bad there were a lot of different interests they could have given Mark.

Quote

I get that things change over the course of 8 seasons, but there were times you could tell they were making it up as they went. 

You really could. Like with Jill's and Tim's siblings. Jill at one point mentions having five sisters two named Katie and Carol. Suddenly she has four and none are named Katie or Carol although Carrie could be short for Carol and the niece Laura disappeared as did Robin's husband. Tim names seven brothers at various times there's Marty, Jeff, Steve, Rick, John, Danny and Brian. Or in that Christmas episode Tim mentions his family's all in Colorado. 

[readster]

15 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

 

You really could. Like with Jill's and Tim's siblings. Jill at one point mentions having five sisters two named Katie and Carol. Suddenly she has four and none are named Katie or Carol although Carrie could be short for Carol and the niece Laura disappeared as did Robin's husband. Tim names seven brothers at various times there's Marty, Jeff, Steve, Rick, John, Danny and Brian. Or in that Christmas episode Tim mentions his family's all in Colorado. 

There was also the apparent "love of Texas" Jill's family had. From all the talk about "moving 8 times" growing up and everything. There seem to be this "love of Texas" and yes, Jill's mother was from there as by the actress's natural accent, but why? Was that were Fred and Lillian first started and once the girls were all grown and out, the Colonial Patterson could finally get his choice of where to retire? It's never brought up. Hell, we don't even know where and why they ever got together. Then again, we don't know how Tim's parents every truly got together. I mean the writers and producers at one point got it in their head that Jill was suppose to be like her father and hate everything their spouse did, as we learned from Lillian after Fred died. Then why the hell were they married for so long? It wasn't the kids, it wasn't about being "traditional". The way they told the stories right up to the one Christmas Episode, they were constantly arguing over the years and it had gotten a lot worst because Fred retired and apparently Lillian was a home maker. Now, it was the classic: "They see each other all the time and the kids are gone." 

  It even goes back to Bud, here is a guy who has made good business decisions, worked hard to make his business. Then he makes big promises or does impulsive decisions that don't work or NEVER work. Yet, he is suppose to be this "all knowing man of business". There just comes a point, you have to 'explain' why things are that way instead of: "Well, we WANT it that way." 

[andromeda331]

On 12/26/2019 at 11:54 AM, readster said:

There was also the apparent "love of Texas" Jill's family had. From all the talk about "moving 8 times" growing up and everything. There seem to be this "love of Texas" and yes, Jill's mother was from there as by the actress's natural accent, but why? Was that were Fred and Lillian first started and once the girls were all grown and out, the Colonial Patterson could finally get his choice of where to retire? It's never brought up. Hell, we don't even know where and why they ever got together. Then again, we don't know how Tim's parents every truly got together. 

Yeah, its funny for all their moving we never really heard anything about the places they moved too. Just how much Jill hated it. I'd love to know why they ended up in Texas. Were Fred and Lillian from Texas? Its hard to imagine Fred would move anywhere he didn't want to live. Then again if he had just retired before the Christmas episode wouldn't they have still been moving around? Or was that the last place he was transferred too? They just remained there? I'm not sure because they do talk like they've been living there for long time. It might have been nice to hear how they met or maybe even some positive stories about the Colonial because most of them he sounded like jerk. It surprises me they don't even show him changing. The episode before he dies Jill finally is honest with him about how much they all hid from him and we find out in the episode he dies Jill's still lying to him. So nothing's changed. Great so he was an asshole up until he died? Lillian of course is really upset during that episode but then when we see her again we learn how much she had to give up in her marriage to Fred. She had to give up everything that he didn't like which was almost everything. How sad is it that she had to do that? She couldn't do any of it until after he died. Over fifty years before she could go dancing. What a horrible person. Did he ever take her to Italy like they talked about in the Christmas episode? Probably not. No wonder Lillian is having so much fun after he died. She could finally have fun and do what she wants. But of course we get the scene where she talks about how hard it is and she misses him after Jill talks to him. But its really hard to imagine given that he was such a jerk. Jill's surprised that her parents are fighting when they come to visit for Christmas but from what we learn they fight all the time. Why was she so surprised? She should be more surprised her mother didn't leave her father at any point. 

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I mean the writers and producers at one point got it in their head that Jill was suppose to be like her father and hate everything their spouse did, as we learned from Lillian after Fred died. Then why the hell were they married for so long? It wasn't the kids, it wasn't about being "traditional". The way they told the stories right up to the one Christmas Episode, they were constantly arguing over the years and it had gotten a lot worst because Fred retired and apparently Lillian was a home maker. Now, it was the classic: "They see each other all the time and the kids are gone." 

I wonder why they even did that. You'd think going in that direction with Jill that they would not only have her realize it and try to change. But that doesn't ever happen. She gets to the point in the episode when she keeps putting down Jeff and realized it came from her father. But that's it. No big moment she realizes she's just like her father and wants to be different. Nope, she just continues the same as if she never had the realization. Then what's the point? It wasn't fun watching Jill act just like her father. 

 

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It even goes back to Bud, here is a guy who has made good business decisions, worked hard to make his business. Then he makes big promises or does impulsive decisions that don't work or NEVER work. Yet, he is suppose to be this "all knowing man of business". There just comes a point, you have to 'explain' why things are that way instead of: "Well, we WANT it that way." 

Yeah, they keep telling us that Bud is a good business man. He built a huge business and made a ton of money. But then yes he keeps making dumb decisions. He wants to fire Al. Why? From all we heard Al had a lot of fans. So firing him would lose a lot of fans. He wanted to appeal to a younger audience which most do. But first of all that's what Heidi's for and second its a home improvement show. Not that many kids or teenagers are going to be tuning in every day to watch the show. The stupid managers he's put in charge. Like the moron who waited until the day the Swedes were going to be at the show to tell Tim that Andretti wasn't going to be there. Or letting his wife think he fired her brother because he beat her at bowling instead of embezzling. Insisting Tim go to Chicago with him to talk with those guys and it had to happen that night. Why? They couldn't ever met again? Bud and Tim couldn't fly out on another weekend to where ever they lived and talk business? Why didn't he ever do anything to get Tool Time picked up in more markets? He didn't ever bother to expand the business? Why? He didn't want to make more money?

Bud not keeping any of the promises didn't surprise me. Bud seemed like the type that would keep promising Tim that he'd promote him, listen to his ideas and stuff but never actually do. He never actually did. He just kept stringing him along. I really wish Tim had figured that out. Of course at the end with that stupid Morgan we're suppose to believe the board hired him. For what? To copy ideas? To come up with every way to kill ratings, the show and ruin Binford? Plus from the way they introduced Bud in his first episode they made it sound like he bought Binford because he used to love that stuff and was going to try and return to his roots and not be so into being a CEO but that didn't happen at all. He was mostly a jerk.

[readster]

20 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

. Like the moron who waited until the day the Swedes were going to be at the show to tell Tim that Andretti wasn't going to be there. Or letting his wife think he fired her brother because he beat her at bowling instead of embezzling. Insisting Tim go to Chicago with him to talk with those guys and it had to happen that night. Why? They couldn't ever met again? Bud and Tim couldn't fly out on another weekend to where ever they lived and talk business? Why didn't he ever do anything to get Tool Time picked up in more markets? He didn't ever bother to expand the business? Why? He didn't want to make more money?

Bud not keeping any of the promises didn't surprise me. Bud seemed like the type that would keep promising Tim that he'd promote him, listen to his ideas and stuff but never actually do. He never actually did. He just kept stringing him along. I really wish Tim had figured that out. Of course at the end with that stupid Morgan we're suppose to believe the board hired him. For what? To copy ideas? To come up with every way to kill ratings, the show and ruin Binford? Plus from the way they introduced Bud in his first episode they made it sound like he bought Binford because he used to love that stuff and was going to try and return to his roots and not be so into being a CEO but that didn't happen at all. He was mostly a jerk.

That's what ever made sense. I mean there is keeping secrets from family members, because they feel it might be damaging, but Bud's ex wife couldn't even tell him: "It was my brother too." Instead it made it sound like it was some average employee who pissed Bud off. Even more, Bud couldn't have said: "He has two choices. Prison or go some place else where he will WISH he was in jail." I mean you might love your sibling, but I mean they are stealing money from you and that is in turn stopping you from paying your: bills, mortgage, car, trips, ect." 

  Same goes for this apparent "Board of Directors" at Bineford that could fire Morgan at any given time. Or these people that made Tim look like a an academic scholar. Tim had his problems with More Power or not thinking things through. But... he knew what made good TV, projects, travel, cars, tool recommendations, ect. Yet, the people running Tool Time acted like they ran some private website and couldn't tell the sky from a hole in the ground. 

[Was-MArsenault]

The Karate Kid Returns was on just recently, and that’s one I haven’t seen in a long time.

It's from Season 6 which is one of my least favorite seasons, but I'll make an exception this time for the episode only because it’s one of my favorites.

Edited January 24, 2020 by MikaelaArsenault

[andromeda331]

On 1/22/2020 at 4:50 PM, MikaelaArsenault said:

The Karate Kid Returns was on just recently, and that’s one I haven’t seen in a  long time.

It's from Season 6 which is one of my least favorite seasons, but I'll make an exception this time for the episode only because it’s one of my favorites.

I do love watching Randy and Mark handling the situation. They both did the right thing. Randy apologized for stepping on the guy's shoe and then tried to defuse it by making a joke. It didn't I love Mark coming to the rescue and saving Randy and the two running off. I like Randy's feeling embarrassed after everyone at school learned his little brother saved his life. Of course an older sibling is going to feel that way after being saved by their younger sibling. Thinking Lauren's laughing at him and tries to show how tough he is by punching someone. I like that Lauren wasn't impressed by it along with Tim's talk with Randy. 

[Was-MArsenault]

@andromeda331, I just realized that I made a mistake with the spacing in my post.

[readster]

18 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I do love watching Randy and Mark handling the situation. They both did the right thing. Randy apologized for stepping on the guy's shoe and then tried to defuse it by making a joke. It didn't I love Mark coming to the rescue and saving Randy and the two running off. I like Randy's feeling embarrassed after everyone at school learned his little brother saved his life. Of course an older sibling is going to feel that way after being saved by their younger sibling. Thinking Lauren's laughing at him and tries to show how tough he is by punching someone. I like that Lauren wasn't impressed by it along with Tim's talk with Randy. 

Right, it's sad that this would be the last time we would see "Normal Mark" before the writers decided he needed to be changed to "Goth Mark" a few months later. Also, Jill's reaction is still piss poor or the fact the manager and the old lady in the background are just letting this teen try to beat up another kid. Or how about how Jill goes off on how Mark and Randy "need to apologize" to the family of the kid ready beat their son because of stepping on his shoes. Or the entire fact the manager/owner wasn't pissed off that a set of kids just ruined and destroyed his back stock of shoes. 

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, readster said:

Right, it's sad that this would be the last time we would see "Normal Mark" before the writers decided he needed to be changed to "Goth Mark" a few months later. Also, Jill's reaction is still piss poor or the fact the manager and the old lady in the background are just letting this teen try to beat up another kid. Or how about how Jill goes off on how Mark and Randy "need to apologize" to the family of the kid ready beat their son because of stepping on his shoes. Or the entire fact the manager/owner wasn't pissed off that a set of kids just ruined and destroyed his back stock of shoes. 

That's the part I don't like. That lady did nothing when it happened. She could have intervened or called security. The manager should have done either one too. Although the manager one doesn't surprise me. If that mall was anything like the one I'm used to store employees are never around. Throw the older kid out and/or call security. Jill's reaction ticks me off. She hears what happened and gets mad at Mark. Yelling at him for intervening and telling him that wasn't what karate was for. What the hell? So she'd rather Mark do nothing and let Randy get beaten up?  She should have been mad at the older boy and store manager/employees. She tells Mark it should have been a last resort, but it was a last resort. The store manager and any other employees were who knows where, there was a woman there but she did nothing, and Randy did try to defuse it. He apologized and then tried to use a joke. Neither worked. Both boys did the right thing and their mother yells at them as if they did something wrong. It makes no sense.  

[readster]

16 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That's the part I don't like. That lady did nothing when it happened. She could have intervened or called security. The manager should have done either one too. Although the manager one doesn't surprise me. If that mall was anything like the one I'm used to store employees are never around. Throw the older kid out and/or call security. Jill's reaction ticks me off. She hears what happened and gets mad at Mark. Yelling at him for intervening and telling him that wasn't what karate was for. What the hell? So she'd rather Mark do nothing and let Randy get beaten up?  She should have been mad at the older boy and store manager/employees. She tells Mark it should have been a last resort, but it was a last resort. The store manager and any other employees were who knows where, there was a woman there but she did nothing, and Randy did try to defuse it. He apologized and then tried to use a joke. Neither worked. Both boys did the right thing and their mother yells at them as if they did something wrong. It makes no sense.  

Saw the season 4 finale on Laff, which is where you see the "old Jill" before she would turn towards really being like Fred. Least with her relationship with Carrie you can understand, but when Tim brings up the problems with Carrie. Then Jill fires back with: "Why are you attacking my sister?" Tim of course goes: "I thought that's what we were doing." Tim brought up all the good points that Jill's side of the family is more hating and doing more annoying things than Tim's side. Plus, this was showing Jill and Nancy's relationship the best before of course things would come crashing down later on. HI really had it's stride in season 4 and while season 5 was still great, you start to see it starting to turn into problems. With Bud coming on the show, Benny the mooch and Marty entering: "Man child mode" and Jill going: "Dammit, Tim! Don't you know I moved 8 times growing up and we just give my father what he wants even though he complains about everything?"

[Was-MArsenault]

Laff is having a marathon on Sunday to celebrate the Super Bowl, and the episodes will all be from Season 3.

[summitsw]

Can someone help me out with why the boy’s bunk beds in Randy/Brad’s original bedroom don’t have any bedding? They have pillows, but no sheets or quilts. I’m doing a rewatch and it’s bugging me. Do we ever see a scene in that room where the boys are actually in bed instead of just lying on one? 
 

There’s bedding on Brad’s single bed when he has his own room, and on the bed in Randy’s basement room, but none that I can see on the built in bunks. 

[readster]

On 1/31/2020 at 2:00 AM, summitsw said:

Can someone help me out with why the boy’s bunk beds in Randy/Brad’s original bedroom don’t have any bedding? They have pillows, but no sheets or quilts. I’m doing a rewatch and it’s bugging me. Do we ever see a scene in that room where the boys are actually in bed instead of just lying on one? 
 

There’s bedding on Brad’s single bed when he has his own room, and on the bed in Randy’s basement room, but none that I can see on the built in bunks. 

Yes, I noticed that many times too. Where was their bedding? Even later on when Mark and Brad were in the basement bunking. All of a sudden, the bedding disappeared again. So, who doesn't like bedding? Mark or Brad?

[andromeda331]

On 1/26/2020 at 7:29 AM, readster said:

Saw the season 4 finale on Laff, which is where you see the "old Jill" before she would turn towards really being like Fred. Least with her relationship with Carrie you can understand, but when Tim brings up the problems with Carrie. Then Jill fires back with: "Why are you attacking my sister?" Tim of course goes: "I thought that's what we were doing." Tim brought up all the good points that Jill's side of the family is more hating and doing more annoying things than Tim's side. Plus, this was showing Jill and Nancy's relationship the best before of course things would come crashing down later on. HI really had it's stride in season 4 and while season 5 was still great, you start to see it starting to turn into problems. With Bud coming on the show, Benny the mooch and Marty entering: "Man child mode" and Jill going: "Dammit, Tim! Don't you know I moved 8 times growing up and we just give my father what he wants even though he complains about everything?"

Yeah that was the last of the old Jill. Its too bad. The only one I really liked in the later seasons was the one after the guy at the gym makes a pass at her, she and Tim end up talking all night long. Its one of the few times in the later seasons we saw them connecting. I wish we had gotten to see more of Jill and Nancy's relationship. So many of Jill's friends came and gone but the two seem to have a lot in common. I can see why Jill would want to try being friends with her since she was the only other wife in the Taylor family and none of her sisters were married and/or had kids (at least until after they forgot about) to talk to.

Season five was good and there were episodes I liked in season six but I agree that's when things changed. Jill became completely unbearable, Bud popped in and out and Tim was constantly sucking up to him and willing to drop everything for Bud. I hate that they never had him realize Bud was stringing him along, and of course Benny and Marty. I can't imagine anyone letting Benny hang around at all mooching off everyone and does nothing in return. The Thanksgiving episode when Tim tells him off after learning Benny went to soup kitchens to mooch off then. But then they make Tim feel bad about it. Sure they talk later. But that was crap. Benny had that coming. He admitted to eating food for homeless people despite not being homeless and he deserved to be called out for all the crap he did until that moment. I know we were suppose to find him "funny" but there was nothing funny about him. They kept making him worse by saying he had gambling debts and showing that he refused to get a job.

Marty was the other one they kept making into a jerk. They started early on with him when he wanted to bail on his wife and kids after the twins were born because it was hard because things were different. So his solution is to walk out and leave Nancy to raise the kids. That could have been just a one off. But then in season five they start making him worse. He loses his job. Tim offers him one helping to build a new set for Tool Time Marty complains the whole time and question Tim instead of shutting up and doing his job. Tim arranges for him to work for K&B Construction. That should have been a great job for him. But its gone too. By the time his wife leaves him he's working and losing other jobs from his 'tude its clear those are his fault. He won't just do his job. This is something that continues all the way to the finale. Once again Tim gives him a job at the hardware store Marty can't bother to do his job and sends customers to another hardware store. We also learn in another episode that Nancy basically did all the parenting. He wouldn't punish the kids so that was all on her. Its no surprised that Nancy got fed up and left him. Its even harder to understand why no one else gets fed up and ditches him. Or tells him off.  They really went overboard with so many characters turning them so unlikeable.

On 1/31/2020 at 1:00 AM, summitsw said:

Can someone help me out with why the boy’s bunk beds in Randy/Brad’s original bedroom don’t have any bedding? They have pillows, but no sheets or quilts. I’m doing a rewatch and it’s bugging me. Do we ever see a scene in that room where the boys are actually in bed instead of just lying on one? 
 

There’s bedding on Brad’s single bed when he has his own room, and on the bed in Randy’s basement room, but none that I can see on the built in bunks. 

 

8 hours ago, readster said:

Yes, I noticed that many times too. Where was their bedding? Even later on when Mark and Brad were in the basement bunking. All of a sudden, the bedding disappeared again. So, who doesn't like bedding? Mark or Brad?

That's so odd. Why wouldn't their be bedding? Sheets? A comforter? Blankets. Plus they lived in Michigan. It gets pretty cold in the winter. Its hard to believe they sleep on a bed with nothing.

[summitsw]

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10 hours ago, readster said:

Yes, I noticed that many times too. Where was their bedding? Even later on when Mark and Brad were in the basement bunking. All of a sudden, the bedding disappeared again. So, who doesn't like bedding? Mark or Brad?

 

Glad I’m not the only one who noticed, just thought it was weird, especially as pretty much every time we see Tim/Jill in bed they are buried in covers. 

[readster]

On 2/5/2020 at 4:34 AM, summitsw said:

Glad I’m not the only one who noticed, just thought it was weird, especially as pretty much every time we see Tim/Jill in bed they are buried in covers. 

 

On 2/5/2020 at 2:18 AM, andromeda331 said:

Yeah that was the last of the old Jill. Its too bad. The only one I really liked in the later seasons was the one after the guy at the gym makes a pass at her, she and Tim end up talking all night long. Its one of the few times in the later seasons we saw them connecting. I wish we had gotten to see more of Jill and Nancy's relationship. So many of Jill's friends came and gone but the two seem to have a lot in common. I can see why Jill would want to try being friends with her since she was the only other wife in the Taylor family and none of her sisters were married and/or had kids (at least until after they forgot about) to talk to.

Season five was good and there were episodes I liked in season six but I agree that's when things changed. Jill became completely unbearable, Bud popped in and out and Tim was constantly sucking up to him and willing to drop everything for Bud. I hate that they never had him realize Bud was stringing him along, and of course Benny and Marty. I can't imagine anyone letting Benny hang around at all mooching off everyone and does nothing in return. The Thanksgiving episode when Tim tells him off after learning Benny went to soup kitchens to mooch off then. But then they make Tim feel bad about it. Sure they talk later. But that was crap. Benny had that coming. He admitted to eating food for homeless people despite not being homeless and he deserved to be called out for all the crap he did until that moment. I know we were suppose to find him "funny" but there was nothing funny about him. They kept making him worse by saying he had gambling debts and showing that he refused to get a job.

Marty was the other one they kept making into a jerk. They started early on with him when he wanted to bail on his wife and kids after the twins were born because it was hard because things were different. So his solution is to walk out and leave Nancy to raise the kids. That could have been just a one off. But then in season five they start making him worse. He loses his job. Tim offers him one helping to build a new set for Tool Time Marty complains the whole time and question Tim instead of shutting up and doing his job. Tim arranges for him to work for K&B Construction. That should have been a great job for him. But its gone too. By the time his wife leaves him he's working and losing other jobs from his 'tude its clear those are his fault. He won't just do his job. This is something that continues all the way to the finale. Once again Tim gives him a job at the hardware store Marty can't bother to do his job and sends customers to another hardware store. We also learn in another episode that Nancy basically did all the parenting. He wouldn't punish the kids so that was all on her. Its no surprised that Nancy got fed up and left him. Its even harder to understand why no one else gets fed up and ditches him. Or tells him off.  They really went overboard with so many characters turning them so unlikeable.

 

That's so odd. Why wouldn't their be bedding? Sheets? A comforter? Blankets. Plus they lived in Michigan. It gets pretty cold in the winter. Its hard to believe they sleep on a bed with nothing.

Now that I look more, yes most of the time you saw Jill and Tim, later Brad and Randy's beds had a mattress. However, when you saw the boys in their bunk beds or later when Brad and Mark were living in the basement room. There are NO Mattresses, which doesn't make sense. You have to wonder if it was because basic mattresses were keeping the actors from moving or if Noah Smith, just didn't like mattresses, but I noticed its only when Smith had to be in bedroom scenes of if it was two of the boys living together. Odd Choice.

 

As for Jill's "turn into Fred Jr" yeah, why the writers went this way doesn't make sense, because Patricia Richardson said she did not enjoy that about her character in later years. In fact, Marty's divorce from Nancy was based more on Pat's personal life and the split up from her husband and crumbling of her marriage. 

[Was-MArsenault]

On 2/5/2020 at 3:18 AM, andromeda331 said:

Yeah that was the last of the old Jill. Its too bad. The only one I really liked in the later seasons was the one after the guy at the gym makes a pass at her, she and Tim end up talking all night long. Its one of the few times in the later seasons we saw them connecting. I wish we had gotten to see more of Jill and Nancy's relationship. So many of Jill's friends came and gone but the two seem to have a lot in common. I can see why Jill would want to try being friends with her since she was the only other wife in the Taylor family and none of her sisters were married and/or had kids (at least until after they forgot about) to talk to.

Season five was good and there were episodes I liked in season six but I agree that's when things changed. Jill became completely unbearable, Bud popped in and out and Tim was constantly sucking up to him and willing to drop everything for Bud. I hate that they never had him realize Bud was stringing him along, and of course Benny and Marty. I can't imagine anyone letting Benny hang around at all mooching off everyone and does nothing in return. The Thanksgiving episode when Tim tells him off after learning Benny went to soup kitchens to mooch off then. But then they make Tim feel bad about it. Sure they talk later. But that was crap. Benny had that coming. He admitted to eating food for homeless people despite not being homeless and he deserved to be called out for all the crap he did until that moment. I know we were suppose to find him "funny" but there was nothing funny about him. They kept making him worse by saying he had gambling debts and showing that he refused to get a job.

Marty was the other one they kept making into a jerk. They started early on with him when he wanted to bail on his wife and kids after the twins were born because it was hard because things were different. So his solution is to walk out and leave Nancy to raise the kids. That could have been just a one off. But then in season five they start making him worse. He loses his job. Tim offers him one helping to build a new set for Tool Time Marty complains the whole time and question Tim instead of shutting up and doing his job. Tim arranges for him to work for K&B Construction. That should have been a great job for him. But its gone too. By the time his wife leaves him he's working and losing other jobs from his 'tude its clear those are his fault. He won't just do his job. This is something that continues all the way to the finale. Once again Tim gives him a job at the hardware store Marty can't bother to do his job and sends customers to another hardware store. We also learn in another episode that Nancy basically did all the parenting. He wouldn't punish the kids so that was all on her. Its no surprised that Nancy got fed up and left him. Its even harder to understand why no one else gets fed up and ditches him. Or tells him off.  They really went overboard with so many characters turning them so unlikeable.

 

That's so odd. Why wouldn't their be bedding? Sheets? A comforter? Blankets. Plus they lived in Michigan. It gets pretty cold in the winter. Its hard to believe they sleep on a bed with nothing.

Seasons 1-5 were the best seasons.

[readster]

13 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Seasons 1-5 were the best seasons.

6-8 are just odd writing, there are still many episodes, but it seemed to be more of: "Jill is mad at something and EVERYONE must know it and resolve it HER way." Or "Tim and Al are fighting over really, really stupid reasons." They started giving Heidi stories that didn't fit into any context of the show. Her and Marty's "marriage problems" were based on Patricia Richardson's marriage breaking up. But in a "dramatic" way. Don't get me started on Goth Mark. Randy and Laura's stories were great. However, Wilson got to the point he seemed to not know how a toaster worked. 

[andromeda331]

On 2/6/2020 at 7:12 AM, readster said:

 

Now that I look more, yes most of the time you saw Jill and Tim, later Brad and Randy's beds had a mattress. However, when you saw the boys in their bunk beds or later when Brad and Mark were living in the basement room. There are NO Mattresses, which doesn't make sense. You have to wonder if it was because basic mattresses were keeping the actors from moving or if Noah Smith, just didn't like mattresses, but I noticed its only when Smith had to be in bedroom scenes of if it was two of the boys living together. Odd Choice.

 

As for Jill's "turn into Fred Jr" yeah, why the writers went this way doesn't make sense, because Patricia Richardson said she did not enjoy that about her character in later years. In fact, Marty's divorce from Nancy was based more on Pat's personal life and the split up from her husband and crumbling of her marriage. 

I can see why she wouldn't. Jill really wasn't any fun at all in the later years. It is interesting that Patricia didn't enjoy it either. You always wonder whether actors and actresses notice things about their characters or not. 

22 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Seasons 1-5 were the best seasons.

Yes, the first five seasons were the best. The last years were really terrible. 

9 hours ago, readster said:

6-8 are just odd writing, there are still many episodes, but it seemed to be more of: "Jill is mad at something and EVERYONE must know it and resolve it HER way." Or "Tim and Al are fighting over really, really stupid reasons." They started giving Heidi stories that didn't fit into any context of the show. Her and Marty's "marriage problems" were based on Patricia Richardson's marriage breaking up. But in a "dramatic" way. Don't get me started on Goth Mark. Randy and Laura's stories were great. However, Wilson got to the point he seemed to not know how a toaster worked. 

It really was. Except for Randy and Lauren everyone was pretty much acting out of character or like their worse quality became their only quality. Jill was always getting upset over something or out to diagnose something whether it made sense or not. It was fine to use Patricia Richardson's marriage break up for one of the couples but for both? They really couldn't find another divorce to use or I don't know make something up. Maybe Nancy just got fed up with a husband who wouldn't help raise their kids and keep a job? Did they have to make Marty so terrible? For Heidi you'd think they would go with the obvious her husband was sports newscaster so he probably traveled a lot. That would put a strain on a marriage. Tim became annoying and even dumber, they broke up Al and Ilene for nothing Al didn't date or do anything except become even more of a whipped Mama's boy then before and Wilson became an idiot.  Mark's Goth phase could have been interesting but it went nowhere.