Will Tyrion Become The Quarter Man?

[WhiteStumbler]

So I have seen the spec that the arrival of Stannis the Mannis in KL could somehow spring Tyrion from execution (like maybe a stray catapulted boulder smashes open Tyrion's cell, but leaves him unharmed to make his escape using the miles of tunnels beneath KL?), or that Jaime could help. Who or what are likely to save Tyrion from execution?*

 

*I don't think this is probable, just possible, and I am probably grasping at straws.

 

These seem to be a good a start at a list, with PRO and CON (motivations/capabilities that would make their involvement more or less likely)

 

Stray Baratheon Boulder: Rock smash!

PRO: Stannis could be returning to try his hand at KL again. I saw a similar prison-break scenario in Pirates of the Caribbean.

CON: More likely scenario is Stannis taking the city and putting every Lannister to the sword. I still think that Mel's vision from the end of last season will draw them to the North, not to Battle of Blackwater II.

 

Jaime: Strongly motivated to help his brother.

PRO: Reasonably intelligent.

CON: As a man of action, he may not be the best at scheming to help Tyrion escape. Down 1 hand. Jaime may feel he did all he could to get Tyrion sent to the Wall, so all this Trial By Combat and it's aftermath is on Tyrion's head.

 

Tyrell Family: Knows the truth behind the poisoning of Joffrey, and so don't want Tyrion to loose his head over it.

PRO: They are intelligent plotters, and Margaery has her hooks pretty deep into Tommen.

CON: Unlikely to help a Lannister, willing to sacrifice Tyrion to keep their own involvement in Joffrey's death a secret.

Varys: Might be motivated to save Tyrion's head because a) he couldn't save Poor Ned Stark, and b) he was sincere in saying "There are many who know that without you this city faced certain defeat. The king won't give you any honors, the histories won't mention you, but we will not forget." In S1 Varys told Ned "I could (free you); but will I? No. As I said, I am no hero", but he may be motivated by his promise ("we will not forget") to be heroic and risk his neck to save Tyrion.

PRO: Hyper-intelligent game-player, puts great stock in repaying debts (see The Sorcerer-In-A-Box).

CON: Already testified (truthfully) against Tyrion at his trial, high likelihood of being unwilling to risk his neck by double-crossing Tywin/Cersei.

 

Bronn: Could have a case of The Guiltys and want to save Tyrion.

PRO: As former Commander of the City Watch he may still have some residual loyalty from someone who could help him spirit Tyrion away. Could be motivated to help (now that he won't be facing The Mountain) after Tyrion's promise of riches and land in The North.

CON: Like Jaime, as a man of action, he may not be the best at coming up with a scheme to help Tyrion escape.

 

King Tommen: A royal pardon and banishment to The Wall could save Tyrion. Unlikely after Tyrion demanded Trial by Combat.

PRO: Seems to genuinely like his uncle, perhaps because he is receiving a noticeable lack of imp-slapping compared to "King" Joffrey. Tommen may be the tool that Margaery uses to keep Tyrion from being executed for the Tyrell "crimes".

CON: Unlikely to do anything of the sort without the consent of Tywin.

 

Ellaria Sand: Sticking her thumb in the eye of Tywin by assisting in the escape of Tyrion would be some (very, very, very) small measure of revenge.

PRO: Intelligent, beautiful, and seductive. Must hate Tywin with a burning passion.

CON: Saving a Lannister from death seems a pretty bizarre way of sticking it to the Lannisters.

 

Hill Tribes / Mord: Off to the Capitol to see if there is more gold coming from the Half-Man.

PRO: None.

CON: Utterly ridiculous.

 

Dragons: The ultimate wildcard!

PRO: Flying weapons platforms could make short work of any cell walls.

CON: Absolutely everything we know about this world. Oh well.

 

Any other possible scenarios that could help Tyrion escape being The Quarter Man?

 

IF (and it is a BIG "IF") Tyrion is going to escape from execution, I think that Varys would be my choice as the Angel of Deliverance. Who would you vote for?

[stillshimpy]

Don't worry, I have solved the problem entirely! 

 

For anyone who wants him to live, all you need is for me to pull for him to die.  It's a proven strategy that has worked time and again with this show.  

 

When life and death are on the line, whoever I want to die; lives and whoever I wish would live; dies.  

 

Die, Tyrion! Die you snarky, prostitute-as-your-paramour-having, not-a-bastard, die! 

 

You're welcome.  He's now officially safer than houses.  Certainly almost all of House Stark (see: the reason I know this strategy works) . 

[Pallas]

Tremendous spec, White Stumbler, and hilarious title.  And the "con" for the Hill Tribe made my day.  Also, earnestly citing Pirates of the Caribbean as support for a "Pro" argument.  Now that I think of it, Tyrion and Cap'n Jack have more than a few traits in common. Starting with: while their stories may not be "about" them, wherever they are, story happens.  Story just spontaneously breaks out.  

 

And speaking of breaking out!  

 

My money's down on Jaime, finally and forever disaffected from what passes for his family by Tywin's unseemly haste in calling for Tyrion's head, and Cersei's arguably more unseemly pleasure in Oberyn's death: the meting out, as well as the result.  Jaime loved what he saw of Oberyn's gallantry and mad skillz against the Mountain, and hated what he saw after that.  Between Tyrion's brains and Jaime's boldness, the brothers should be able to hatch a workable plot.  

 

And they do have possible allies in Bronn, Varys, and most of all Ellaria, who I continue to be sure has more to do.  Perhaps even -- now, don't laugh me out of the room -- in The People.  The "many who know that without you...."   We may have been reminded of that, both in the "previously" and in the trial itself, for a reason. 

[Snowblack]

Great spec!  I have one you left out.

 

Tywin: Worried about his legacy.

Pro:  Could get Jaime to leave the King's Guard and take his rightful place as Tywin's heir in return for allowing Tyrion to "escape."

Con:  He hates Tyrion's guts and may well believe in Tyrion's guilt.

 

Also another pro for Varys: Could send Tyrion to allies in Easteros.  Tyrion can join a traveling band of actors or a carnival and can send Varys information from all over Easteros.  Or not.

[WhiteStumbler]

Snowblack:

 

Great addition! Another motivation for Tywin - why have two sons responsible (and one executed) for killing a king? 'The Kingslayer Brothers' would not ring sweetly in Tywin's ears.

 

ETA: Tyrion in Essos could hook up with Jorah?!? Oooohhhh!

Edited June 6, 2014 by WhiteStumbler

[Pallas]

Tyrion can join a traveling band of actors or a carnival and can send Varys information from all over Easteros.  Or not. -- Snowblack

 

You know, Tyrion would say he was going to do that, and he'd mean it when he said it, and he'd also imagine he felt very very grateful to Varys, but...I see Varys inquiring daily, "Any ravens find their way here from the East?": and then weekly, then monthly, then... "Or any news of a fresh talent among the wandering minstrelry...?"

 

Tyrion in Essos could hook up with Jorah?!? Oooohhhh! -- WhiteStumbler

 

OOOORRRR! -- Tyrion in Essos could hook up with Dany.  

 

"I know something about King's Landing and the present rulers -- the usurpers -- Your Grace.  How their minds work, and their weaknesses.  Those are much the same thing, actually."  Dany is once again in need of a Hand, and Tyrion has the time.  And if Tywin fools me by surviving the season, then we might have a real mano-a-mano...

 

And before that -- Tyrion meets the dragons!  "Well."  (Backing away, keeping his eye on all three.) "You haven't met my family, Your Grace, but I assure you...they've much in common."  

[abelard]

I would soooooo love for Tyrion, still a whole half of a man, to book it to Easteros more or less intact (a few more scars would be okay), and make it to Dany's court.  I don't see him + Jorah making for rollicking entertainment.  But Dany + Tyrion (not in a romantic way) would be possibly hilarious.  Dany is pretty earnest but still sort of green, and Tyrion is a hardbitten alcoholic (or recovering alcoholic?) cynic.  They could be funny, those two.

 

HOWEVER, I am deathly (ha!) afraid that Tyrion is going the way of my beloved Ned Stark.  A part of me is ready to let him go after Oberyn.  I was so devastated and shocked by Oberyn's death that now I just feel like: Tyrion?...whatever.  Because frankly, does Tyrion deserve to live more than Oberyn?  No, not according to the morals of the story.  Tyrion has only himself to blame for being in this whole rotten mess to begin with.  Oberyn went to KL with the noble cause (to me anyway) of righteous vengeance.  So if Oberyn has to lose...meh, maybe Tyrion does, too.

 

BUT I will miss Tyrion and be sad to not have his snark around anymore.  

 

I could be paranoid, but it just feels to me like it was too easy, to lose Awful Joff the way we did, without much greater sacrifices that would plain hurt more.  Oberyn HURT.  And so will Tyrion.  And then I hope the Show has exacted sufficient revenge on its viewers for daring to like its rootable characters, and will at least leave Sansa and Arya be for now.

Edited June 7, 2014 by abelard

[Pallas]

 

I don't see him + Jorah making for rollicking entertainment.  But Dany + Tyrion (not in a romantic way) would be possibly hilarious.  Dany is pretty earnest but still sort of green, and Tyrion is a hardbitten alcoholic (or recovering alcoholic?) cynic.  They could be funny, those two.

 

How right you are, abelard!  On both counts.  On the one hand, Tyrion and Jorah, wandering the desert on horseback, each glumly nursing his heartache, now and then striking up the same conversation because, well..."What did she say you did?"  "Spied on her and spilled the beans that she was pregnant, before she'd made it through the first trimester." "And you -- "  "Yup." "Ah."  "And he said -- "  "That I poisoned his grandson the King, with wine I poured by my own hand, in front of hundreds of witnesses, all of them sycophants and almost none of them drunk."  "And you didn't."  "No!, and I can't believe that's how he wants me remembered: as too imbecilic to live."      

 

But Tyrion and Dany?  She is indeed so dead earnest: ruthless as a Lannister in her Starkian principles.  And yes, still green to the whole Queen biz.  Tyrion would not be awed by her, or smitten.  He's known a few imperious girls.  And he just might make Dany laugh, which would help all of us in passing the time with her, for the foreseeable future...

 

Honestly, I think something like this will happen.  Tyrion is not only, it seems clear, the author's modern eye on the proceedings he witnesses, but he travels well (he's compact) -- that is, he has a way of bringing other people and places into sharp relief.  I haven't enjoyed a moment at the Wall since he finished pissing off of it, buttoned up and took his leave.  I think he could make Dany's story come alive.  In Daario, he'd see bits of what he saw in Jaime and Bronn (and so might we); in Barristan, the same ol' Barristan; and he could take Greyworm under his caustic wing as he did Jon.  

 

Does Tyrion deserve to live?  I don't think this saga is about deserving. (I don't actually think life is about deserving, or life would be quite different.)  As for us, I think where Joffrey's death is concerned, we'd already paid at the office, over three seasons, and then had to pony up again with Oberyn.  I think the cosmos would be okay with it if Tyrion lives.  He'll still have his scars.  He'll still have his sorrows.  He'll still be a half-man.  And he'll still have his family.       

[gingerella]

As for us, I think where Joffrey's death is concerned, we'd already paid at the office, over three seasons, and then had to pony up again with Oberyn.  I think the cosmos would be okay with it if Tyrion lives.  He'll still have his scars.  He'll still have his sorrows.  He'll still be a half-man.  And he'll still have his family.

Pallas, soooo much Word to this! We paid in spades, bought every goddamned girl scout cookie known to man and STILL we got bent over the wrong end of a barrel with our pants down where our beloved Oberyn is concerned...gee, can you tell A Viewer is still fucking pissed off about losing such a lasciviously luscious man last week???

 

I honestly think that Tyrion would be the best King the 7K ever saw, if ever he was given the chance to rule. What we know about Tyrion is that while he takes no shit and is no fool, he has a rapier-like sense of humor, he sees the good in those who are good, he sees things as they are and not as he wants them to be, he tries to be fair minded, and we saw him fearlessly going into battle even at his diminutive size, to save his Kingdom because his imbecile nephew was too chicken-shit scared to step on to the battle field himself. As my grandmother would say, "he's a real mensch...", and yeah, he actually is within the framework of this twisted fucked up world he was born into. If he was normal height, I dare say he could easily have been Tywin's favored son...

 

And the cherry on top of this shit sundae is that Tyrion is not a sister-fucker. And hey, that says a lot about the man...just sayin'.

 

I for one, would like to see a triumvirate at the end of all this with Tyrion, Dany and Jon somehow joining forces and winning out over evil. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by gingerella

[abelard]

But Tyrion and Dany?  She is indeed so dead earnest: ruthless as a Lannister in her Starkian principles.  And yes, still green to the whole Queen biz.  Tyrion would not be awed by her, or smitten.  He's known a few imperious girls.  And he just might make Dany laugh, which would help all of us in passing the time with her, for the foreseeable future...

Honestly, I think something like this will happen.  Tyrion is not only, it seems clear, the author's modern eye on the proceedings he witnesses, but he travels well (he's compact) -- that is, he has a way of bringing other people and places into sharp relief.  I haven't enjoyed a moment at the Wall since he finished pissing off of it, buttoned up and took his leave.  I think he could make Dany's story come alive.  In Daario, he'd see bits of what he saw in Jaime and Bronn (and so might we); in Barristan, the same ol' Barristan; and he could take Greyworm under his caustic wing as he did Jon.

 

Oh man, I'm in love with this possible scenario already.  Which means I have to stop loving it, or it will never come true.  

 

I honestly think that Tyrion would be the best King the 7K ever saw, if ever he was given the chance to rule. What we know about Tyrion is that while he takes no shit and is no fool, he has a rapier-like sense of humor, he sees the good in those who are good, he sees things as they are and not as he wants them to be, he tries to be fair minded, and we saw him fearlessly going into battle even at his diminutive size, to save his Kingdom because his imbecile nephew was too chicken-shit scared to step on to the battle field himself. As my grandmother would say, "he's a real mensch...", and yeah, he actually is within the framework of this twisted fucked up world he was born into. If he was normal height, I dare say he could easily have been Tywin's favored son...

 

I don't think there's really any doubt that if Tyrion were of normal height, he'd be sitting in Casterly Rock right now, the legal heir of a proud Tywin.  Heck, he might even still be married to Sansa in that alternate universe.  Tyrion is so clearly the kind of Lion that Tywin wants as the inheritor of the family name and legacy.  

 

And you're totally right, Tyrion would be the best King of all the players on the board, mostly b/c he knows what's what and who's who.  For all Dany's flair for dramatically enacting justice, she doesn't know jack about the 7K or the subtle power plays that make up the Game.  Stannnis actually might make a decent King - good military leader and someone who would take his job extremely seriously - but Stannis's rule would be a strange combination of boring and burning people alive on the pyre of the Red God (which just brought to mind that's what the Mad King did, one of several things he and Rhaegar did to incite Robert and Ned to rebellion...there sure are a lot of pyromaniacs in this story!).  Besides Dany and Stannis, who else are serious challengers for the Throne right now?  I guess Tyrion isn't even a legitimate challenger, though, he's way out of the order of succession - though he could conceivably replace his father as Hand (Tyrion has been Hand before, after all), and Tommen would give Tyrion more free rei(g)n than Joffrey did, that's for sure.

Edited June 7, 2014 by abelard

[stillshimpy]

I don't think there's really any doubt that if Tyrion were of normal height

 

Right, but a lot of what makes Tyrion, Tyrion is that he is a dwarf in a world where people are cruel as a matter of course but particularly to anything or anyone they perceive as weaker, broken or handicapped in anyway.  It's a world that favors a lot of bullies, and Tyrion experienced this within his own family and is painfully aware that with a different last name he would have had a very different life; perhaps none at all. 

 

As much as I like to think of myself as an absolute, certain things about me as being unquestioned and definitive, I suspect that I am as much a product of all the accidents of my birth than I am a compilation of my genetics.  I've always been an acceptable size, and appearance in a superficial world.  I'm a smallish white women so that shapes things like ...my entire relationship to people like Police Officers.  I am me, but I am also shaped, molded and influenced by my experiences.  Ethnic and gender identity exists and exerts influence. 

 

Tyrion is the person he is, partially because of his own identifiers and shaping influences.  If Tyrion were of normal height, I supsect he'd be a lot more like Lancel Lannister, still blond, still a Lannister, second fiddle to Jaime and if Tyrion were of normal height, he might have many other siblings, since we are led to believe that his dwarfism contributed to his mother's death.  

 

So if Tyrion were of normal height, he might as well be named Jed the Totally Different, because we are shaped by what the world reflects back to our personal mirrors.  Probably more than we even begin to grasp.  

 

I am a mouthy woman. There are countries throughout the world that would kill or beat me on general societal principles, but had I been born in one of those countries, would I still be as opinionated?  As assured of my absolute right to speak my mind and assert myself?  I think probably not  Hell, there are countries in the world where I might not be able to type these paragraphs, because why teach a woman to read and write?  

 

So, yeah...he'd just be a different dude.  

Edited June 7, 2014 by stillshimpy

[abelard]

Great points, shimpy, and I totally agree.  I do think there is an inner core (a "nature" part) in Tyrion that is extremely intelligent and perceptive, capable of sympathy and empathy, licentious and arrogant and braver than most.  But so much of what makes Tyrion himself is the "nurture" (or lack thereof) part: the caustic wit, cynicism, defiance of his father even unto his own undoing, attachment to whores (I think that is about him feeling a kinship with people of low birth), and his particular affinity for bastards (other people of low birth) and broken things.  I don't think he would have been Lancel Lannister or Jed the Totally Different, he still would have been the second son in the Lannister line if there had been other siblings and assuming Jaime still would have joined the Kingsguard, I think Tyrion would still have become THE Lannister-in-line-for-the-Rock.  But he may have used his intelligence and perceptiveness to just become another tyrant/despot type, without the vulnerability that makes us (me, anyway) root for him (most of the time).

 

Just realized that "Tywin" sounds a lot like "tyrant."  And "Tyrion" sounds a lot like "tear" (like in crying) and "tearing" (like in "tearing up").

[WhiteStumbler]

Thanks, abelard! :-(

Now I am "tearing" up, convinced Tyrion is Dead Half-Man Walking.

I'm not crying, it's raining on my face!

[stillshimpy]

assuming Jaime still would have joined the Kingsguard

 

I don't know, if Tyrion couldn't have been blamed for his mother's death, would Cesei and Jaime still have become so unhealthily attached to one another?  

 

Tyrion's stature influenced more than just Tyrion too.  Also, Oberyn talked about how he had heard that a monster had been born to Tywin Lannister.  

 

If Tyrion wasn't a dwarf, that doesn't become part of the Lannister identity.  What else does that change?  That's a rhetorical question, but if Tyrion was a different, regular height, that pulls in more than just "Well, then he'd be taller".  

 

Even Cersei and Jaime had a tendency towards compassion, and love it seems.  As twisted and horrible as Cersei is, she's also a woman who grew up without a mother, everyone might have been different.  That's part of what I think Tyrion's speech was about on the stand.  He's the Curse of the Lannisters.  The Monster thrust upon Tywin Lannister as a judgment.  That sort of thing.  

 

I do agree that there are still innate things in a person, but I think a great may things might have been different and not just for Tyrion.  

[abelard]

I think a great may things might have been different and not just for Tyrion.

 

I do think that Cersei's bitterness stems (it looks like) mostly from her mother's too-early death, which she blames on Tyrion.  Jaime's Kingsguarding, though, I wonder if that has more to do with his dyslexia.  But it could be that much of the toxicity of Jaime's relationship to Tywin, including Tywin's heavy-handed way of dealing with Jaime's dyslexia, could also be traced back to the mother's death.  Maybe the mother would have taken a different approach when Jaime's LD was discovered by the Maester, in which case Jaime doesn't do every last thing he can to thwart his father's Life Plan for him.  

 

Much of this is coming down to not only What If Tyrion Were Taller? but What If Lady Lannister Had Lived?  It's interesting.  A happy, non-incestuous Cersei and Jaime -- whaaaa????  

[stillshimpy]

Much of this is coming down to not only What If Tyrion Were Taller? but What If Lady Lannister Had Lived?  It's interesting.

 

It is, I agree.  So many things go into making a person and establishing an identity.  There are a lot of things that influence us.  

 

I do think a lot of Jaime and Cersei's attachment to one another likely has to do with Tywin being Tywin, and I am only assuming that Lady Lannister was a worthwhile and loving person, but it does seem as if Tyrion is considered a stain on the Lannister name because he is a dwarf.  If that is changed , to borrow from Dead Like Me, "that's a piece of the Jenga tower of fate" and it's a big one that could have ripples that extend far beyond Tyrion's height.  Including, but not limited to, would there have been more Lannister children?  Does Tywin's relationship to his children change?  

 

Does Lady Lannister still perish, because her death had nothing to do with Tyrion being a dwarf?  Women died in childbirth all the time. 

 

Would Cersei still have been so bitter that Robert did not love her, if she didn't have some clear and present abandonment issues? I don't know.  

[gingerella]

So, yeah...he'd just be a different dude.

I disagree, there is no way we can ever know that Tyrion would be so different than who he is now if he'd been born normal height. Yes, I'm sure his life lessons have been gained in part because of his size, but that does not alone define him. In fact, I don't think Tyrion defines himself by his "deformity", rather, I think he barely notices he is "different" most of the time. It's only when others point it out that you see his hurt.

 

I am dreading tomorrow evening now...

 

ETA: I do now remember Tyrion talking about bastard and broken things, so yeah, his dwarfism of course defines him in some deep way, but OTOH, he always appears to carry himself as if he is no different from anyone else is Westeros, and that's one thing I find so appealing about him. He doesn't wallow in his stature, he rises above it (apologies but that was too easy to not write...).

Edited June 8, 2014 by gingerella

[Pallas]

 l love this discussion!

 

Tyrion is the person he is, partially because of his own identifiers and shaping influences.  If Tyrion were of normal height, I supsect he'd be a lot more like Lancel Lannister, still blond, still a Lannister, second fiddle to Jaime and if Tyrion were of normal height, he might have many other siblings, since we are led to believe that his dwarfism contributed to his mother's death.  So if Tyrion were of normal height, he might as well be named Jed the Totally Different, because we are shaped by what the world reflects back to our personal mirrors.  Probably more than we even begin to grasp.-- stillshimpy

 

I do think there is an inner core (a "nature" part) in Tyrion that is extremely intelligent and perceptive, capable of sympathy and empathy, licentious and arrogant and braver than most.  But so much of what makes Tyrion himself is the "nurture" (or lack thereof) part: the caustic wit, cynicism, defiance of his father even unto his own undoing, attachment to whores (I think that is about him feeling a kinship with people of low birth), and his particular affinity for bastards (other people of low birth) and broken things.  -- abelard

 

 

Fantastic posts in their entirety.  I love shimpy's stretch of the imagination to conceive of Taller Tyrion as Lancel -- Just Another Lannister -- and not someone more sharply defined. That may be right; Taller Tyrion might have been little more than ornamental: a cupbearer, in truth and through and through.

 

Or he might have been more like his fellow second sons.  Primogeniture and not genetics might have been the twist that shaped his life.  He could have quietly, stoically, carried on while nursing his own grievance against fate, seeing his many princely qualities count as nothing compared to Jaime's prior birth: he might have been curdled, like Stannis.  Or then again, he might have been blithely delighted to be free of the burden that Jaime was born to assume and chafe against: like Oberyn, who set out boldly to play with his own gifts and define his own destiny.  Or finally -- if Jaime had still, even more inexplicably, carried on as he did -- a Taller Tyrion might have stepped up like Ned to act as the accidental heir, never quite entirely at peace with the role, yet at the same time, fulfilled by it.  

 

We can't know for certain whether his keen eye was mostly honed by the harsh looks he was forced to fend off, or if his compassion for broken things springs mostly from identity rather than empathy.  I think though that his moment of truth in the trial -- when the truth seemed to descend on his head like an executioner's ax -- won't be for naught.  As Tyrion would say, "He's changed."  He's on the cusp, like Dany just before she stepped into the fire and emerged, draped with dragons, or Jon Snow (as seems likely) takes command of the defense of everything below the Wall.  Or Brandon said, "I know where we need to go."  It seems to me that this saga is about what people do, after such moments.  I think Tyrion has given himself a whole 'nother half-life.  

[Anothermi]

 We can't know for certain whether his keen eye was mostly honed by the harsh looks he was forced to fend off, or if his compassion for broken things springs mostly from identity rather than empathy.  I think though that his moment of truth in the trial -- when the truth seemed to descend on his head like an executioner's ax -- won't be for naught.  As Tyrion would say, "He's changed."  He's on the cusp, like Dany just before she stepped into the fire and emerged, draped with dragons, or Jon Snow (as seems likely) takes command of the defense of everything below the Wall.  Or Brandon said, "I know where we need to go."  It seems to me that this saga is about what people do, after such moments.  I think Tyrion has given himself a whole 'nother half-life.  

THIS!  I am concerned (assuming Tyrion somehow avoids execution by whatever means) that Tyrion's "change" will be to choose to become the "monster" everyone believes him to be.  I think that might be difficult for him as he seems to have that empathy for bastards and broken things deeply ingrained in his psyche. But that is the sort of thing that can be over-ridden by conscious effort. Soooo....

 

I hope this doesn't happen.  We don't really need another character consumed by revenge. 

 

Also - whole 'nother half-life - WIN!

[gingerella]

I am concerned (assuming Tyrion somehow avoids execution by whatever means) that Tyrion's "change" will be to choose to become the "monster" everyone believes him to be.

Oh wow, I certainly hope that's not the case. I can't take another GoT boyfriend going to the dark side or being killed in yet another cruel and disgusting manner. I just might have to break up with A Show...

[stillshimpy]

can't take another GoT boyfriend going to the dark side or being killed in yet another cruel and disgusting manner. I just might have to break up with A Show.

 

I still can't get over the fact that it was paired with Ramsay getting his heart's desire.  The unkindest cut of all.  Oberyn dies trying to avenge someone he loved ....Ramsay's dreams come true, for lying, torturing, flaying and otherwise mutilating people.  

 

Whee. 

[abelard]

gingerella, I am telling you, this Show is the worst pimp ever.  It gives giving us Show boyfriends and then taking them away!!!!!  My grieving heart broke anew at Pallas's description of beloved Oberyn:

 

he might have been blithely delighted to be free of the burden that Jaime was born to assume and chafe against: like Oberyn, who set out boldly to play with his own gifts and define his own destiny.

 

That beautiful, arrogant, sumbitch.  I haven't ready any fanfic for GoT (I am assuming they are rife with spoilers) but I just want to go and read ten dozen stories of Oberyn doing nothing but living beyond his duel with The Mountain.  Just Oberyn and Elaria screwing around, in every possible sense of that word, and drinking wine and parrying words with Tyrion and other clever people, and looking fabulous like the movie stars of the 7K.  Like, a story about Oberyn and Elaria being visited by some high-end tailor, and getting fitted for new gold brocade outfits, would be awesome.

 

So I just had another thought about Tyrion's possible escape: what about Varys's Sorcerer-in-a-Box?  We haven't seen enough of Varys this season, as others have pointed out, and we really don't know what happened to the Sorcerer (and I shudder to even think about how-where Varys is keeping him).  But I am assuming the Sorcerer still has all the powers he gained from the Red God by sacrificing Varys's, um, sacred parts, and so if Varys were to overcome his loathing of magic and let the Sorcerer free just long enough to open the door to Tyrion's cell and distract the guards...I think that would be pretty cool.  We know that Varys does honestly admire and respect Tyrion, and he might have some regret over not being a "hero" in the Ned Stark case (or he just might have more affection for Tyrion, since he barely knew Ned), so maybe that would work.

 

But I am still braced, triple-braced, for nothing to happen to effectuate an escape.  Oh (my half-)man, Tyrion!!!!!!!  I'm worried.  WORRIED!!!!!

[stillshimpy]

Oh Merciful Zeus and gods of Olympus, I've just bloody well realized it's episode 9 this week.  What the hell?  How did that get past me?  Historically the most upsetting things happen in episode 9.  Episode 9 is when I question my will to live and desire to watch this show.  As well as "Why the hell do I watch this show, let alone pay to watch this show? What is wrong with me?!?"  

 

And last week was traumatic enough that I completely forgot that this week is the week the show normally kicks us all in the slats.  What ho.  Good times.  

[WhiteStumbler]

The unkindest cut of all.

Reek would like a word...

;-)

But an excellent point re: A Show, salt, wounds, etc.

[Pallas]

I am concerned (assuming Tyrion somehow avoids execution by whatever means) that Tyrion's "change" will be to choose to become the "monster" everyone believes him to be.  I think that might be difficult for him as he seems to have that empathy for bastards and broken things deeply ingrained in his psyche. But that is the sort of thing that can be over-ridden by conscious effort. Soooo....I hope this doesn't happen.  We don't really need another character consumed by revenge. -- Anothermi

 

I could not agree more, Anothermi.  Let Tyrion take his liberty of the whole mess and make a life for himself, as Shae urged him to do. This time, he might realize that it is up to him to find something to love, something to serve.  That he already possesses qualities the world stands in need of, and may recognize.  It is up to Tyrion to stop heaving his gifts at the impenetrable wall that is his father, and seek a door through which to make an offering.  

[janjan]

The movie "The Station Agent" is on Shotime tonight (June 28), starring an impossibly young Peter Dinklage.