Joe Hellandback October 14, 2018 Share October 14, 2018 Oh here we go, blood on the carpet time! I must say I've never discussed Buffy in a forum without any Spuffers, there are normally a few diehards. The Good; Everything with Amy and the Geeks at the museum/with Spike. Especially love Amy and Bufy catching up and Buffy jumping up and down to see over the crowd at the museum, reminding you for all her superpowers she's still a tiny little woman. The Bad; If the diamond is so valuable surely even in Sunnydale they'd have more security than some guy called Rusty? Best line; Buffy; "How have you been?" Amy; "Rat. You?" Buffy; "Dead" Women good/men bad; The 2 jerks who dance with Amy at the Bronze Kinky dinky; Naked Amy. Warren comments that 'size is everything'. Buffy says she thinks about Giles when she's kissing Spike. Must have done the Guffers' hearts good until she catches herself on. As Spike comments he may be into dark sexuality but he is a vamp, he should be treading on the darkside. Interesting point in the commentary that Joss made sure that Buffy kissed Spike first rather than him forcing the kiss on her and her succumbing after a little resistance Gothic romance style which of course we'll have Spoiler much more off later. . Captain Subtext; Spike comments that he's the only one 'here for you' in regard to Buffy which is very true. Amy wanted to go to the Prom with Larry, unaware he was gay. Tara and Dawn on the sofa, awwww! (lovely pic of that on the Buffy 2009 calender) Anyone else think that the girl Amy selects for Willow at the Bronze looks the spitting image of Cordelia? (Her stand-in/stunt double?) Maybe Amy picked up on something they never could admit to each other? Warren is concerned that when Spike asks him to examine his 'chip' it's British slang for something else. Apocalypses; 6 Scoobies in bondage: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 5 Will: 3 Jenny: 1 Angel: 4 Oz: 1 Faith: 3 Joyce: 1 Wes: 1 Xander; 1 Dawn; 3 Scoobies knocked out: Buffy: 17 Giles: 12 Cordy: 6 Xander: 11 Will: 6 Jenny: 2 Angel: 6 Oz: 3 Faith: 1 Joyce: 3 Wes: 1 Anya;3 Dawn; 2 Kills: none but Buffy beats up 2 muggers Buffy: 103 vamps, 41 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human, 1 god. Cordy: 3 vamps, a demon Will: 6 vamps + 1 demon +1 fawn. Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1 a demon, Anya: 1 vamp and 1 a demon Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons Spike; 8 vamps and 2 demon Buffybot; 2 vamps Tara; 1 demon Dawn; 1 vamp Scoobies go evil: Giles: 1 Cordy: 1 Will: 2 Jenny: 1 Angel: 1 Oz: 1 Joyce: 1 Xander: 4 Anya; 1 Dawn; 1 Alternate scoobies: Buffy: 7 Giles: 4 Cordy: 1 Will: 3 Jenny: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 2 Joyce: 2 Xander: 4 Tara; 1 Dawn;1 Spike; 1 Recurring characters killed: 10 Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce Sunnydale deaths; 93 Total number of scoobies: no more Tara or Giles so 5 Xander, Willow, Buffy, Anya, Spike, Xander demon magnet: 5(6?) Amy remarks on Xander's yen for demons so presumably she was always aware of the events of seasons 1-3 Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula? Scoobies shot: Giles: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 4 Riley; 1 Notches on Scooby bedpost: Buffy and Spike and how! Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes? Cordy: 1? Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 1 possible, Dracula(?) Angel: 1;Buffy Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?) Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley Xander: 2; Faith, Anya Willow: 2;Oz and Tara Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore Spike; 1 Buffy Spike; good or bad? Spike thinks he should be able to feast in muggers. He says he's at the museum out of compassion for the guard but he's surely lying, just an excuse to meet Buffy. Once he thinks his chip is not working he goes out to slaughter the first pretty girl he can find but seems to need to psych himself up to do so. Dawn in peril; 7 Dawn the bashful virgin; 5 Questions and observations; Buffy always wanted a pony. Maybe CC let her ride hers? The mugging scene is funny, nice to have some lightness as the writer comments. Spike can punch Buffy, a huge plot line right there. Spike mocks the geeks but isn't he the guy who referred to KITT and Yoda even in season 2? The Geeks have a glitterball in their lair, the same one that Andrew's brother used to train his hellhounds? Dawn refers to a talking cat on TV, Sabrina;TTW? So, Buffy and Spike? My personal opinion on this is not that Buffy loves Spike but that she needs someone, anyone after her ordeal of being ripped out of heaven (to quote Spoiler Justine on Angel 'better to feel something than feel nothing") . Unfortunately neither Willow or Xander is available, Angel has his curse, Riley's unreachable, Giles is out of picture and Dawn is out of the question unless you're into some pretty damn extreme Summers/slash (which in fairness a LOT of people are to judge by the plethora of Buffy/Charmed adult fanfiction in that dodgy fetish genre. Probably not so shocking in this GoT era). So Spike fits the bill. That's not to say she Spoiler doesn't develop feelings for him later but even he comments he's the only one there for her. Marks out of 10; 7/10, one for the Spuffers and no mistake, unfortunately I'm not one Link to comment
Halting Hex January 11, 2020 Share January 11, 2020 (edited) Not actually a horrible episode, once you ignore the basic grossness of a thoroughly vile mass-murderer insulting the essential human decency of the Scoobies, and one of the Scoobs reduced to playing their enabling snuggle-bunny… …yeah, I really can't stand that scene where Anya is all "you have to look out for the quiet ones, Willow is dangerous, nerds suck!" while Xander is just chained to the table in the Box, nodding like an idiot at this elitist bullshit while his life reduced to paging through the wedding magazines. UGH. Oh, and Buffy and Spike fuck. Whatever. That said, there are some nice touches throughout. The teaser gives us Buffy treating Spike with the scorn he deserves: Quote BUFFY: What the hell are you doing? SPIKE: I thought they were demons. BUFFY: Way to go with the keen observiness, Jessica Fletcher. SPIKE: (glares) Remind me not to help you. BUFFY: More often? SPIKE: Hey. Little sympathy for the man with the migraine here, can we? BUFFY: Well, that's what you get for attacking a human. SPIKE: Yeah. (annoyed) You'd think if the government was gonna put a chip in my head, they'd at least make it so I could attack criminals and that sort. BUFFY: Yes, because muggers deserve to be eaten. Although of course that gets ruined with Slime, i mean Spike, continuing to hit on Buffy and resorting to the laughable "I'm the only one here for you" bullshit, which is the show catering to the 'shippers without any basis in logic. How is Spike "there for" Buffy, exactly? I'll wait. I mean, not forever, but… Still waiting… Drew Greenberg's debut script does have an energy generally not seen in Season Sux. From the byplay in the teaser to the comedy bits once Amy's revived (not just the "Larry's gay, Larry's dead, High School's kind of over" triplet, but the subsequent Buffy/Amy scene where Amy's more focused on the Kidman/Cruise divorce than the Hellmouth hijinks) to Willow getting to cut loose at the Bronze, free from the Wiccan Wall of Sanctimony if only for one night. (I didn't know one of the guys was Jordan Belfi, whom I later enjoyed as Adam the rival agent on Entourage. Cool.) And while Joe is right to point out that Amy really shouldn't know so much about Xander's dating history, the following is still cute, IMO: Quote AMY: What's [Anya] like? WILLOW: Thousand-year-old capitalist ex-demon with rabbitphobia. AMY: Well, that's so his type. I mean, over the long haul, jokes that more obviously come from the writers' room than from the characters can grate, but individually they're okay. Even the mopey crap in this ep was sort of fresh, since it involved a little-seen dyad (Tara/Dawn) and was an effective commentary on divorced parents. Spoiler Although the part where Tara promptly disappears for the next three episodes [even though Dawn gets injured the very next night] might make her the new Hank, I guess… Even Spike regains some of his former glory; the bit where he goes to Warren for information was logical, and while the scene itself was killed by wasting so much time on that godawful unfunny "Boba Fett Held Hostage" sequence (was that really worth spending 90 seconds or whatever on? Just have Warren cave immediately; it would be funnier anyhow), we did get "Help me out here, Spock. I don't speak loser." Which is a total dick line…but very Spike. And of course the fact where Spike's first action on learning that (he thinks) the chip is gone is to try to murder someone should put a stop to all this "redemption" garbage we've been choking on. "He's still a demon at the core; there is no half-way," as Giles said, all those years ago. So all and all, pretty effective, held back only by one or two egregious flubs. I don't know if I can go as high as 7/10, and even 6 might be pushing it, but it's significantly above most of this season's swill. So at least a 5, and get back to me later. I mean, the whole reason I'm commenting on this one is because I suddenly remembered/realized the sweetest line in the whole episode: Quote WARREN: Okay, the security system here is a guy named Rusty. Aww, Warren knows the security guard's name! I'm not saying he necessarily prepped for the job by taking the time to hang out with a lonely old man and learn about Rusty's nephew who just signed up to go fight in Afghanistan (this is bare months after 9/11) or that he's been running Rusty into LA so that they can catch some Clippers games (Lakers tickets are too expensive, of course), since Rusty doesn't seem to recognize him (although he isn't surprised that Warren knows his name, either…), but even if this just means that Warren did a detailed job of scouting out the museum to prepare for the heist, that's still cool. Research always has its charms. Good job, Warren! 😉 (Or possibly bad writing. But I'm generous when I can be this season, considering what I have to deal with, most of the time.) Quote ANYA: Responsible people are…always so concerned with…being good all the time, that when they finally get a taste of being bad…they can't get enough. It's like all (gestures) kablooey. Ahem. Go fuck yourself, HellWhore. Preferably with something painfully jagged. Yeah, I doubt I'm getting past that 5, after all. And so it goes. Edited January 11, 2020 by Halting Hex Link to comment
lembergwatcher February 6, 2020 Share February 6, 2020 On 1/11/2020 at 10:08 AM, Halting Hex said: How is Spike "there for" Buffy, exactly? He feels her paaaaaaaiiin. And he's the only one who understands her - unlike those boring humans. Besides, he has a "cure" for Buffy's issues... below his belt, so to speak. On 1/11/2020 at 10:08 AM, Halting Hex said: …yeah, I really can't stand that scene where Anya is all "you have to look out for the quiet ones, Willow is dangerous, nerds suck!" while Xander is just chained to the table in the Box, nodding like an idiot at this elitist bullshit while his life reduced to paging through the wedding magazines. UGH. And you're what? Shocked and disappointed? That's the new party line! Two things: Anya is another writers' pet and is privileged with her bullshit not being challenged most of the time. Just like Spike spews out tons of bullshit taunting Willow and Xander in Doomed leaving two original Slayerettes speechless after weak attempts to prove their help still matters and their presence in Buffy's life is still needed. Even though Spike doesn't know shit about the Scooby Gang, his words have zero credebility and X/W of all people are supposed to be perfectly aware of the aforementioned facts. Same here. Despite Anya knowing next to nothing about Willow (since she has never really tried to socialize with her outside of the Scooby business or get to know Will's personality better), she's supposed to be "right" because she's Anya, the writers' pet and Spoiler because Willow is the show's new villain. If Spike is allowed to continue his (un)living, why not tolerate Anya together with her stupidity? After the third season Xander is mostly reduced to nodding like an idiot and keeping his mouth shut when it comes to the most important women in his life (well, there are few exceptions like when he told Willow and Anya to sod off in Triangle). I don't see much difference between the guy sticking his tongue in his arse after being told "not to make a fuss" with regards to his two girl friends' favorite vamp in 4x03 and nodding like an idiot after hearing his fiancée making remarks about Willow here. He doesn't want to "upset" his HellWhore, doesn't want another fight or "take her side instead of mine" diatribe. That's called "maturity" and "character growth" in the UPN days, right? And Joss forbid those few Xillow 'shippers out there get an impression Xander still cares about Willow's well-being (even in purely platonic/friendly way). Let's trash their hopes once more Spoiler let's subject them to Xander being nowhere in sight when Wilow hits rock bottom in the following ep, Xander making idiotic suggestions about Willow in 6x11, almost betraying Willow to appease his bitch in 6x14. Let them wait for the small beacons of light amidst the darkness and despair of Hell's Bells and the mediocre season's finale. Only to see Xillow acting like nothing's happenened throughout the very next season. Sigh. Sorry, that's just my inner 'shipper's screaming to get out. Anyway, if the only reason the character still exists and makes occasional appearances in ev'ry episode Spoiler save Conversations with Dead Plotlines happens to be NB's five-year contract, then Xander's behavior is in total conformity with the new party line. Why should Anya's bullshitting or Xander's "reaction" considering Willow mattter Spoiler if Xander and Willow are two pieces of shit who are about to get lost in the haze of "addiction"/hurt Buffy's precious little sis/leave the bride at the altar/beat up the only guy who's there for Buffy/nearly end the world? Dawn, Spike and Tara are three Buffy's "rocks" from now on. The only problem is the audience not buying it - hence flushing the show's ratings down the toilet... Link to comment
Halting Hex February 10, 2020 Share February 10, 2020 (edited) On 2/6/2020 at 6:00 AM, lembergwatcher said: I don't see much difference between the guy sticking his tongue in his arse after being told "not to make a fuss" with regards to his two girl friends' favorite vamp in 4x03 and nodding like an idiot after hearing his fiancée making remarks about Willow here. He doesn't want to "upset" his HellWhore, doesn't want another fight or "take her side instead of mine" diatribe. That's called "maturity" and "character growth" in the UPN days, right? And Joss forbid those few Xillow 'shippers out there get an impression Xander still cares about Willow's well-being (even in purely platonic/friendly way). Aw. That's the difference between my orbiting Planet Willow, specifically (even with my love for W/X moments), and your having Xillow as your true north…where I'm outraged on Willow's behalf and saddened by Xander's emasculation (better than evisceration, but still), I don't automatically connect them, as you do. Good catch. I mean, Xander threatened to kill Buffy if Willow was hurt. Xander poured his heart out to a comatose Willow and ultimately ended up professing his love. Xander Spoiler will seem to be nearly as upset by making Willow cry as by losing an eye. And yet here's Anya making some rather sweeping statements about Willow's character while Xander pages through the D&D manual and only Buffy raises any serious objections. I mean, well she should, since Buffy is our main character and Willow's her best friend. But Buffy has never slipped Willow the tongue, after all. (Or if she has, the editors have made some really bad cutting decisions!) Plus Xander's known Willow for pretty much their entire lives; Buffy's a great friend, but she's still relatively new. Even just three seasons before, if Willow had been led up the Dark Magic Garden Path by Ethan Rayne (as speculated between S2-3), it's hard to see Xander not shutting down his then-current girlfriend harder than he does here: Quote XANDER: Listen, Cor. I understand what you're saying, but you really don't know Willow that well. I do. The irony being that, unlike Anya, Cordelia might in fact have known Willow pretty well. I grant you that just because Willow dated Xander when they were five (Welcome to the Hellmouth) and Xander and Cordelia have known each other just as long ("Twelve years of you and I'm snapping!" as he says in The Dark Age), that doesn't necessarily mean that Cordelia and Willow have known each other for all that time (and it's most likely not as deep of a relationship), but still. When it comes to Willow-knowledge, CC's liable to be streets ahead of the once-and-future vengeance demon. And yet, I can't imagine S3 Xander letting Cordy get away with what this Xander lets Anya spew here. Ah, "true love"! Truly a "miraculous" thing, no? Edited February 10, 2020 by Halting Hex Link to comment
lembergwatcher February 11, 2020 Share February 11, 2020 15 hours ago, Halting Hex said: I can't imagine S3 Xander letting Cordy get away with what this Xander lets Anya spew here. Ah, "true love"! Truly a "miraculous" thing, no? Theirs is truly "miraculous" love, I agree. Quote ANYA: I'm just trying to tell you that we have nothing in common besides both of us liking your penis. -- Where the Wild Things Are Gotta love Anya's brutal honesty sometimes. Spoiler And even though Anya makes it clear she wanted "to use [Xander] and lose him" in Entropy, the reasons why Xander decided it was so "cool" and "right" to bed the unrepentant serial killer and former demon - and why the rest of the gang thought it was ok to have Anya around - were never addressed throught the show's remaining four seasons AFAIK. Since Joss finds Anya vulgar funny and ill-mannered honest why can't she be the "voice of the audience" who's there to express concern about Willow the Kinky Magic Abuser? And speaking of Xillow... I'm not sure Dawnverse X/W remember their past history pre-Buffy and during the series' first three seasons exactly the way normal X/W do. Yes, Willow still remembers her lips have caused X/C breakup, Spoiler remembers her dreams of marrying Xander, the yellow crayons and an incident involving Aquaman underoos, but other than that?.. And does Xander remember everything just as she does? What if something important is missing? Link to comment
Halting Hex February 11, 2020 Share February 11, 2020 Yeah, as always, Monkfuckery makes knowing the whole truth difficult. Not that there aren't opportunities to improve on reality Spoiler (what if Willow never actually wrote any love poems at all? What if the monks were bored and sat around composing odes to Xander's "adorable smile" [Teacher's Pet] because they were forced to throw away their "Buffy and Cordelia had a drunken make-out session before passing out in Reptile Boy" first drafts when they realized Cordelia wasn't going to be interacting with the new programming, anyway?) , but come on, don't mess with success, dudes. Hey, what if Andrew is just a random monk creation? I mean, we never did see the flying monkeys attacking the school play and it might explain why everyone has trouble remembering him… Link to comment
lembergwatcher February 12, 2020 Share February 12, 2020 4 hours ago, Halting Hex said: Hey, what if Andrew is just a random monk creation? I always knew Dawn and Andrew had something in common. That makes perfect sense, I guess. Link to comment
Joe Hellandback February 16, 2020 Author Share February 16, 2020 On 2/11/2020 at 8:14 PM, Halting Hex said: Yeah, as always, Monkfuckery makes knowing the whole truth difficult. Not that there aren't opportunities to improve on reality Hide contents (what if Willow never actually wrote any love poems at all? What if the monks were bored and sat around composing odes to Xander's "adorable smile" [Teacher's Pet] because they were forced to throw away their "Buffy and Cordelia had a drunken make-out session before passing out in Reptile Boy" first drafts when they realized Cordelia wasn't going to be interacting with the new programming, anyway?) , but come on, don't mess with success, dudes. Hey, what if Andrew is just a random monk creation? I mean, we never did see the flying monkeys attacking the school play and it might explain why everyone has trouble remembering him… I doubt it, Dawnie is a work of art, Andrew not so much. Link to comment
Halting Hex March 5 Share March 5 (edited) On 2/6/2020 at 6:00 AM, lembergwatcher said: And Joss forbid those few Xillow 'shippers out there get an impression Xander still cares about Willow's well-being (even in purely platonic/friendly way). It isn't even about 'shipping Xillow romantically; it's about the oldest friendship in the series, going back to "Willow! You're so very much the person I wanted to see!" We spent the first few seasons learning that Xander is hard-wired to risk his life to save Willow (1.01, 1.06, 2.04, 2.14)… Spoiler (He'll even do it again at the end of this season) …is it really so much to ask that he push back against Anya's "Willow is gonna snap, she's so dangerous!" slander? So far, all Willow had done is give two guys with bad lez-dar an hour or so's worth of cage-dancing. As "menace to society" goes, that's a little short of "1100 years of slaughter", Ahn. Spoiler Of course, it does get worse…next episode, Willow takes Dawn to the competition! Where's your loyalty to Anya and Giles's high-class drug-addiction (if we run with the metaphor) shoppe, girl? Surely you get your magicrack from your pals, no? I mean, that whole black-haired vengeful Apocalyptic crap at season's end was largely fueled by Anya's "Darkest Magick" book; all Willow got from Rack was power, and if you ask Warren, she was pretty powerful enough without it. Who has the most danger-y dangerous texts in town? Anya! Show some respect, "Strawberry"! I think Willow might deserve a stronger defense (or any at all, honestly) than Quote XANDER: It's human nature, Buff. Will's getting a taste of something powerful, way bigger than her. ANYA: Yeah, she was getting out of control with it before Tara left, and now that she's gone... XANDER: It's gotta be seductive. Buffy looks up in alarm at the word 'seductive.' Her eyes widen. XANDER: (OS) Just giving in to it. Going totally wild. Buffy stares at him. XANDER: We need to keep an eye on her. I mean, I get that Greenberg wants us to see Buffy having her "I really want to fuck Spike" revelation and Xander (who is only in two scenes this ep) is desperate to pad his line count (he pumps it up to 10…well done!), but come on now. Willow has been doing magic for four years by this point. I think you can trust her a little, regardless of what her ex says. Quote BUFFY: I don't know. Different circumstances, [Faith] could be me. WILLOW: No way. Some people just don't have that in them —Döppelgängland By this time, Willow's magic has enabled her to restore Angel's soul (I know, I know…but theoretically a good thing), restore Buffy's soul, return Buffy's spirit to her body, cast the enjoining spell that beat Adam, teleport a Hell-God, weaken said Hell-God, restore Tara's sanity, and bring Buffy back to life. I think that going into this complete tizzy because Willow is crossing boundaries by using spells in her relationship is a bit much, given that Willow and Tara's relationship is over. A few honest talks with Willow about where things went wrong is probably better than treating Will as a bomb about to explode and being all patronizing when she brings out the laptop, honestly. (Yes, yes, Willow also wanted to cast an incredibly-stupid spell at the Bronze in All the Way, but the issue there wasn't so much "magic" as "stupidity", given that Willow had much better magical "find Dawn" techniques [telepathy, Tinkerbell light, locator spell] in her spellbook than "shift people to an alternate dimension." Also, there's no way that Buffy/Xander/Anya should even know about that incident, unless Tattletale Tara's been sp-sp-spilling the beans.) A little "let's not generalize, Ahn. Willow needs our support, not our paranoia" would go a long way here, Harris. (Even if it wouldn't set Buffy's clit a-tingling with thoughts of Ice Dildo the way "seductive" does. We'll just have to make do.) Edited March 5 by Halting Hex Link to comment
lembergwatcher March 14 Share March 14 On 3/5/2024 at 9:26 PM, Halting Hex said: Willow has been doing magic for four years by this point. I think you can trust her a little, regardless of what her ex says. Thou shalt not trust anyone except Captain Spike in this wicked new version of the Buffyverse... It's like they (the core Scoobs) don't know each other anymore. Link to comment
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