S05.E09: Listening to Fear

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; Some great acting from SMG and KS with Joyce's madness. Lovely Buffy/Joyce/Dawn scenes, especially when they're in bed together. In many ways though this is Riley's ep, see him take charge of the military team, he's back in his place.

The Bad; Not a great deal

Best line; Joyce "My dear sweet brave Buffy, what would I do without you?" (always brings a tear to my eye)

Jeez!; The Queller is HORRIBLE! Ben demonstrates his ruthless side. Poor Dawn spends the entire episode quaking in fear at either the Queller demon or mad people (including her mother) shouting at her. Buffy breaks into tears and I don't blame her. The scene where Joyce, always the tower of strength in Buffy begs for her daughters to take her home like a frightened child is heartbreaking.

Kinky dinky; None this ep, too much happening

Captain Subtext; Joyce works out that Dawn isn't her natural daughter (she's more like Buffy's twin/clone) but doesn't care because she still belongs to her and Buffy, she's precious and they love her. She makes Buffy promise to take care of her. When Joyce asks what she'd ever do without Buffy you can see Buffy wondering what she'd ever do without her mum? When Anya suggests that the radiation from the meteorite might cause sterility Riley and Xander look alarmed but Giles doesn't, given up on the idea of having his own children?

Apocalypses; 5,

Scoobies in bondage: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 5 Will: 3 Jenny: 1 Angel: 4 Oz: 1 Faith: 3 Joyce: 1 Wes: 1 Xander; 1 Dawn; 1

Scoobies knocked out: Buffy: 15 Giles: 10 Cordy: 6 Xander: 8 Will: 5 Jenny: 2 Angel: 6 Oz: 3 Faith: 1 Joyce: 3 Wes: 1 Anya;1

Kills: 2 vamps for Will and one demon for Buffy Buffy: 86 vamps, 32 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot Giles: 5 vamps, 1 demon Cordy: 3 vamps, a demon Will: 6 vamps Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans Xander: 5 vamps, 2 zombies, a demon, a demon Anya: a demon Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons

Scoobies go evil: Giles: 1 Cordy: 1 Will: 2 Jenny: 1 Angel: 1 Oz: 1 Joyce: 1 Xander: 3

Alternate scoobies: Buffy: 6 Giles: 3 Cordy: 1 Will: 2 Jenny: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 2 Joyce: 2 Xander: 3

Recurring characters killed: 9 Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara

Sunnydale deaths; 6 mental patients 89;

Total number of scoobies: 7 Giles, Xander, Willow, Buffy, Anya, Tara, Riley

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?) Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot: Giles: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 4 Riley; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes? Cordy: 1? Buffy: 3 confirmed; Angel, Parker,Riley, 1 possible, Dracula(?) Angel: 1;Buffy Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?) Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley Xander: 2; Faith, Anya Willow: 2;Oz and Tara Riley; 2; Buffy and Sandy

What the fanficcers thought; Buffy has sex with the Quellar demon. No, I'm NOT kidding either! 'Quelled'

Questions and observations; Our first hints that Ben is not all he appears. Will finds the dead body again. Graham again, yay! He should fix his beret though. Dawn saves Joyce through her quick thinking, she's a Summer's girl alright. Joyce's insane remark about Buffy being 'disgustingly fat' is all the more ironic given how painfully thin SMG looks this season. The vamps Willow stakes look like they're female wrestlers or something? Really this ep hits Buffy where she hurts, she can face all the dangers of being a slayer as long as she has her friends and Joyce and Dawn to come home to. When her home life is threatened that really unnerves her

Marks out of 10; 7/10

[lembergwatcher]

I love it when they show the Scoobies working together as a team like in the good old days (even if Buffy herself is currently unavailable due to private reasons). I mean working somewhere else other than familiar surroundings of the Magic Box.  Willow is the real hottie when she dusts vampires, you know, and Xander is still a research guy. Then again when the episode's climax comes (Buffy fights the Queller demon at Casa Summers), the Scoobs are left stuck in the library, and it's a pure coincidence that non other than Spike happens to be in close proximity to the battle scene. That Spike guy... Always in right place at right time (where and when the writers want him to be). Just like Buffy's "guardian angel" or something. I guess we should be thankful to the writing staff, for letting Riley

Spoiler

(Buffy's soon-to-be ex-boyfriend)

partly share the moment of victory.  

The scene with Buffy sobbing at the kitchen is truly heartbreaking. Quite dark episode as a whole.

Together with Mommy Bezoar from Bad Eggs the Queller demon is one of the ugliest creatures of the Buffyverse IMO.   

Edited September 19, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Jack Shaftoe]

Yes, good to see some good old fashioned research but terrible to see it all being for naught in the end.

Joyce's instant acceptance of Dawn after learning the truth about her is hilarious in a so bad, it's good way.

[Halting Hex]

5 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

I love it when they show the Scoobies working together as a team like in the good old days

Indeed, much better than being locked in the Magic Box all episode.  Kirshner also gets more nostalgia points for me because she continues to have this weird idea that Buffy and Willow are…friends or something like that.  Strange, but I'll take it. [/lots and lots of bitter]  The "Tiny Jewish Santa" scene is probably one of the best scenes of the season.  (Although I guess Riley/Xander's "but she doesn't love me" scene in The Replacement beats it both for poignancy and relevance; sometimes I just have a problem resisting the cute, I admit.)  And even Kirshner's Willow/Tara scene reads more like a Willow/Buffy scene on the page.

5 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

That Spike guy... Always in right place at right time

On the plus side,  he hadn't been in the episode at all until that one brief scene. 

4 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Joyce's instant acceptance of Dawn after learning the truth about her is hilarious in a so bad, it's good way.

Yeah, you can virtually see the Monkfuckery subroutine firing automatically there.  "Must Protect Dawn! Must Protect Dawn! No Logic Allowed! Must Protect Dawn!"  Hacky writing to be sure, but almost worth a half-smile.

The soapy "cliffhanger" is just lame, though.

Spoiler

 Especially as they use the exact same cliffhanger to streeeeetch us through the opening titles of Into the Woods.

Just give this one a proper wrap-up and save "Joyce's surgery" for next episode, ffs.

Pretty much defines 6/10 ("barely above average"), IMO.

[Joe Hellandback]

9 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

I love it when they show the Scoobies working together as a team like in the good old days (even if Buffy herself is currently unavailable due to private reasons). I mean working somewhere else other than familiar surroundings of the Magic Box.  Willow is the real hottie when she dusts vampires, you know, and Xander is still a research guy. Then again when the episode's climax comes (Buffy fights the Queller demon at Casa Summers), the Scoobs are left stuck in the library, and it's a pure coincidence that non other than Spike happens to be in close proximity to the battle scene. That Spike guy... Always in right place at right time (where and when the writers want him to be). Just like Buffy's "guardian angel" or something. I guess we should be thankful to the writing staff, for letting Riley

  Hide contents

(Buffy's soon-to-be ex-boyfriend)

partly share the moment of victory.  

The scene with Buffy sobbing at the kitchen is truly heartbreaking. Quite dark episode as a whole.

Together with Mommy Bezoar from Bad Eggs the Queller demon is one of the ugliest creatures of the Buffyverse IMO.   

In fairness Spike is stalking Buffy so it's hardly surprising he's around, it's just sad he just steals poor Riley's limelight.

8 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Yes, good to see some good old fashioned research but terrible to see it all being for naught in the end.

Joyce's instant acceptance of Dawn after learning the truth about her is hilarious in a so bad, it's good way.

I disagree, Dawn is Joyce's blood relation, her daughter if not born of her and she's lived with her for months and has a mind full of shared memories. 

4 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Indeed, much better than being locked in the Magic Box all episode.  Kirshner also gets more nostalgia points for me because she continues to have this weird idea that Buffy and Willow are…friends or something like that.  Strange, but I'll take it. [/lots and lots of bitter]  The "Tiny Jewish Santa" scene is probably one of the best scenes of the season.  (Although I guess Riley/Xander's "but she doesn't love me" scene in The Replacement beats it both for poignancy and relevance; sometimes I just have a problem resisting the cute, I admit.)  And even Kirshner's Willow/Tara scene reads more like a Willow/Buffy scene on the page.

On the plus side,  he hadn't been in the episode at all until that one brief scene. 

Yeah, you can virtually see the Monkfuckery subroutine firing automatically there.  "Must Protect Dawn! Must Protect Dawn! No Logic Allowed! Must Protect Dawn!"  Hacky writing to be sure, but almost worth a half-smile.

The soapy "cliffhanger" is just lame, though.

  Hide contents

 Especially as they use the exact same cliffhanger to streeeeetch us through the opening titles of Into the Woods.

Just give this one a proper wrap-up and save "Joyce's surgery" for next episode, ffs.

Pretty much defines 6/10 ("barely above average"), IMO.

The cliffhanger filled me with fear, so real compared to all the supernatural threats we've seen 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Dawn isn't Joyce's blood relation.

Spoiler

As far as Joyce knows at least.

And these memories of the actual Dawn are based on a great big lie. The normal thing to do for anyone in Joyce's situation would be to at least show some hesitation before going all "Who cares how she appeared, she is my daughter". I mean, even Buffy did it, albeit for a rather short period of time. The unfortunate implications of women having such strong maternal instincts that they would fall in love with any child, no matter their lack of consent in the situation, are pretty clear. Dispel the fake memories and if Joyce still wants to take care of Dawn - fine. As it is, her consent is about as meaningful and real as that of the women in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, IMO.

[Joe Hellandback]

9 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Dawn isn't Joyce's blood relation.

  Hide contents

As far as Joyce knows at least.

And these memories of the actual Dawn are based on a great big lie. The normal thing to do for anyone in Joyce's situation would be to at least show some hesitation before going all "Who cares how she appeared, she is my daughter". I mean, even Buffy did it, albeit for a rather short period of time. The unfortunate implications of women having such strong maternal instincts that they would fall in love with any child, no matter their lack of consent in the situation, are pretty clear. Dispel the fake memories and if Joyce still wants to take care of Dawn - fine. As it is, her consent is about as meaningful and real as that of the women in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, IMO.

Yes she is, the monks made Dawn from Buffy's blood and Joyce is Buffy's mother. We know that Dawn has been living with Buffy and Joyce for months, it's like Joyce finding out Dawn is adopted. And the maternal instinct is an amazing thing, look at CC knocked up by all those demons. 

[lembergwatcher]

Oddly enough, the Queller demon seems to hesitate a little before making an attempt to kill Joyce. It appears the creature lets the poor woman vent for no apparent reason before attacking her. And I still can't quite understand why does it show so little interest in friggin' Spike who's obviously an insane SOB.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 2:04 AM, lembergwatcher said:

Oddly enough, the Queller demon seems to hesitate a little before making an attempt to kill Joyce. It appears the creature lets the poor woman vent for no apparent reason before attacking her. And I still can't quite understand why does it show so little interest in friggin' Spike who's obviously an insane SOB.

Probably more careful as there are others around (and maybe it senses Buffy is the Slayer?). Plus maybe it needs a living victim.