Oz. Random Thoughts.

[lembergwatcher]

Well, I know one in every two here will tear me a new one for saying things like that about the established Buffyversal darling, but here's a couple of my subjective and biased thoughts regarding Mr. Daniel "Oz" Osbourne. Don't throw stones at me, but IMO that guy is one of the most (unfairly) overrated characters in the whole Buffyverse. Which itself did our mute Wolfboy a great disservice. He was a lucky guy, not a noble guy.

When asked about that particular character four things usually come to mind. 1. He played guitar in a local high school band; 2. He was a werewolf. 3. He dated Willow (the best girl in the realm) between S.02 Phases and S.04 Wild at Heart ("Oh, wow, one of the longest relationships in the series!!!" - some impressionable fans continue to claim to this day). 4. He took some part in the Scooby Gang's activity. 

The Great Buffyversal Myth of Oz usually claims Wolfboy was the very first to notice Willow that way, to see her not as mere a "guy friend that knows about girl stuff" or "study buddy". Willoz fans still swoon with delight recalling that particular scene in Inca Mummy Girl where noble "cool-looking" guitarist quickly saw how beatiful Willow was in her eskimo outfit. They usually don't give a hoot about another (much more tender) moment in one of the earlier eps. The fact that Xander considered kissing his best friend even for a second or two in When She Was Bad proves he wasn't such a totally oblivious fool when it came to Willow's beauty and womanhood, as many people like to believe. Then again let us not forget that the very first to notice Willow that way was none other than Malcolm/Moloch himself in I, Robot... You, Jane (he called Willow "my love", remember?). That was long before Oz even appeared in the picture. Still I don't see that many people ready to give Moloch a credit for acknowledging Willow's beauty. Oz was the first to compliment shy and insecure Willow? Well, yeah, but Moloch did it too (so what's the deal?). Others love Danny-boy for his restraint in response to Willow sending signals in Innocence or Amends (they had Xander to think with his dick after all). Good boy, Oz. But, like it or not, it wasn't Oz's unique character trait. Xander too was decent enough not to take advantage when Willow openly suggested him being her "first" in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered. You think Willow in Xander's bed, wearing nothing but her lifelong friend's shirt, was any less seductive then the one who liked making hints, while listening to Barry White in her room? Btw, how about showing the same amount of restraint with your Veruca baby, Oz?


I love it when they always claim Oz was such a huuuuuuuuuge gift for Willow. I love it even more when they say a piece of furniture that occassionally played guitar/gave some witty comments was an even bigger step ahead for our beloved redhead, a sure sign of maturity and a character growth, source for inspiration and the reason for her growing self-esteem (Willow had to move on, they say, because that evil misogynist bitch Xander kept the poor girl down for so long). What I dislike is that in order to show Oz's (non-existent) "greatness" the writers did everything to denigrate one of the best characters in the show (and one of my favorites), starting to portray Xander as a constant pain in the gang's collective ass, babbling idiot, pathetic loser and everyone's buttmonkey. It all began in season 3, 'cause Joss wanted everyone to love Willoz, wanted us to expect Willow to make her final choice in favor of writers' wolfboy darling (the whole Xander/Faith little sexfest was invented purely for that reason). To highlight the series' new "boyfriend of the season" they had to make Xander look miserable "one step forward-two steps back" guy. Emphasizing how shiny and glorious someone is you have to pick someone else to be dark and smelly. For comparison purposes. Willow had to choose Oz, she was obliged to, she freakin' owed him for what they had (in what twisted dictionary reconsiling purely out of guilt  is a sign of true love or healthy relationship?) And don't tell me whole "fluke" thing happened solely because of the freakin' formal wear and not because Willow and Xander didn't love their significant others that much.

Then Oz was half-beast. Partly animal. Yeah, three nights out of the months, blah-blah-blah, and the werewolves are mostly cool and non-dangerous types when there's no full moon up in the sky, blah-blah-blah... Yeah, he asked to be locked up in a cage and we can easily ignore Veruca's "you're a wolf all the time and this human face is just your disguise", 'coz she's, ya know, Veruca, but still... Wolf is animal. Willow is human. Making her lose her virginity to the guy who was a carnivore in part smells like some light version of bestiality to me. Of couse I appreciate Oz not eating Willow or anyoune else and, true he didn't enjoy that werewolf shit in him the way Veruca did, but "I'm not happy with something" doesn't usually mean "I can control it". The guy himself confirmed he still didn't know that much 'bout his  condition before leaving heartbroken Willow in Wild at Heart:

Quote

No. Veruca was right about something. The wolf is inside me all the time, and I don't know where that line is anymore between me and it. And until I figure out what that means, I shouldn't be around you... Or anybody.

  Oh yeah, how about figuring out before you started dating the poor girl in Phases, dumbass? Why not ask some inconvenient questions regarding the wolf inside you before affair with Veruca and almost tearing Willow to pieces? Being with someone else while knowing damn well you have something you still don't know much about and cannot fully control, is a suuuuure sign of caring for your significant other, brothers and sisters! If he truly loved Willow (and was concerned for her safety) he would stay away from the girl until learning enough about his hairy alter ego. But Oz didn't give a shit about Willow, he was just a wolf looking for a mate, and she was "his possession like a jewel on his crown" (hence violent reaction to Willow's smell on Tara in broad daylight in New Moon Rising).


Anyway, I still don't get it what was so special 'bout the whole Willoz hype? Yes, Oz was a cool silent type, with the claim to intellectualism, played in a band. Interesting guy in a way and those types will always get the upper hand over Xander types, but... his role in the show? Was looking "cool and trendy" or dating Willow enough for Oz to be placed over, say, Xander in all those ratings? I mean, come on, for the most of the third season we saw him more like Willow's shadow, constantly following her (remember, "As Willow goes, so goes my nation" in Homecoming or "If you don't need me, I'm gonna follow the red-head" in Earshot?). Repeating the senior year of high school just to be around your girlfriend? I thought it was Angel's prerogative to be the creepy stalker guy (Willoz and Bangel were true "Olsen twins" of the series). Not a sign of healthy relationship, but a case of some control-freakery, I must say (ironically, I didn't see Willow and Oz having classes together, so who can guarantee there were no more W/X footsies in class, when the Werewolf was nowhere in sight?).  Therefore I still can't describe the amount of joy I feel watchin' last "Ozless" season 2 eps: Passion, Killed by Death, Go Fish (even I Only Have Eyes for You is not that bad)...

Speaking of Willoz... Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Oz who decided the time had come for him and Willow to start dating, it was Oz who decided when was the most appropriate time for making amends/resumption of his and Willow's relationship, and it was Wolfboy who made a first step for consummating their love, and then it was his decision to leave abruptly following Veruca crisis, telling Willow she didn't have a say in their relationship (everything had to be his way, yeah?). I don't mind seeing so many people drooling for that particular couple, but... Damn, was Oz really the best for our Wicca? I guess him handling the Veruca deal speaks volumes. Not telling Giles or Buffy was bad enough. But it got worse when he decided it would be the best for everyone if the Wolfgirl stayed with him in the cage for those several nights (although initially it was Buffy's stupid idea to bring him "a roomie"). Two wild beasts, one cage. It meant either fight or fuck. I don't think Willow would be too happy finding naked Oz groping naked Veruca's breast or having her/his throat torn out the next morning (of course, fuck was more preferable to fight, but was he going to... what? invite her in every month??). And then the guy just outdid himself after being caught with his pants down:

Quote

Willow : I knew, you jerk. And you sat there, and you told me everything was fine? And that's as bad as... As...

Oz : I know how it feels. I remember.

Willow : Oh. So what, this is payback? I had this coming?

Oz : No. It's not--

Willow : Because I thought that was behind us. And you know, what happened with Xander, it doesn't compare. Not with what you and I had. Not with whatever you've been doing with her.

Oz : I don't know what Veruca and I have done. When I change, it's like, it's like I'm gone and the wolf takes over.

Willow : But before this, when you were regular Oz, you had feelings for her, didn't you?

Oz : No. I could sense something, but...

Willow : But you wanted her... Like in an animal way? Like...More than you wanted me?

Oh yeah, 'cause pretending everything was behind them, holding a grudge and then fuckin' using it  as some sort of justification of his misbehaving was soooooooooo mature. Great, Wolfboy, just great. 'Coz Willow having illicit smoochies with Xander and you having a rough fuck  with the beasty whore were exactly the same things! And then Mr. Perfect Gentleman just ran away with his tail between his legs. leaving Willow broken and depressed. What a sign of manliness and bravery! Probably, it should have been Seth Green's character to have the "hyena moments" in one of the eps. Or someone in the writing staff simply confused the wolf with, say, chipmunk? You tell me. 


You know, I would have more respect for the writers if they were a little less stereotypical/predictable. If they let Xander not to think with his dick, tell his fears and insecurities to go "f" themselves and choose shy vulnerable Willow over supermodel-type of girl like Cordelia. Or if they allowed Willow to turn a blind eye on Xander's goofy demeanor (and baggy clothing) and choose her best bud over cool-looking guitarist playing with some Pearl Jam impersonators. But no, unfortunately. Xander was a child of alcoholic parents, his academic performance wasn't impressive, he listened to uncool country music and the only girl who wanted to be his prom date was a former hellbitch and homicidal maniac ('cause, you know, Xander had to attract only such types). Demon magnet - how funny is that, ha-ha-ha? Even him almost bleeding to death after the date with a demon chick in First Date was presented as some kinda joke. Demon magnet, ha-ha-ha. Why? Because the uncool types are scum (just look at Jonathan)! That was one of Buffy's messages from then on (an obvious departure from celebrating "uncool" types in season 1). Supernatural rules! Everymen are "redneck morons", kill the uncool! You know, I still can't decide what I hate more about The Zeppo. That moment:

Quote

Xander: But... It's just that it's buggin' me, this 'cool' thing. I mean, what is it? How do you get it? Who doesn't have it? And who decides who doesn't have it? What is the essence of cool?

Oz: Not sure.

Xander: I mean, you yourself, Oz, are considered more or less cool. Why is that?

Oz: Am I?

Xander: Is it about the talking? You know, the way you tend to express yourself in short, noncommittal phrases?

Oz: Could be.

Xander: I know! You're in a band! That's like a business-class ticket to cool with complementary mojo after takeoff! I gotta learn an instrument. Is it hard to play guitar?

Oz: Not the way I play it.

Xander: Okay, but on the other hand: eighth grade. I'm taking the flьgelhorn and gettin' *zero* trim. So the whole instrument thing could be a mislead. But you need a thing, one thing nobody else has. What do I have?
Oz: An exciting new obsession. Which I feel makes you very special.
Xander: Now with the mocking. Which I can handle because I know I'm right about this. I'm on the track. I just need to find my thing.
Oz: It seems like you're over-thinking it. I mean, you got some identity issues. It's not...

Or that:

Quote

Xander: Why am I surprised by how comforting you're not?

Cordelia: It must be really hard when all your friends have, like, superpowers -- Slayer, werewolf, witches, vampires -- and you're, like, this little nothing. You must feel like Jimmy Olsen.

Xander: I was just talking to... Hey, mind your own business!

Cordelia: Ooo, I struck a nerve. The boy that had no cool.
Xander: I happen to be an integral part of that group. I happen to have a *lot* to offer.
Cordelia: Oh, please. Xander: I do!
Cordelia: 'Integral part' of the group? Xander, you're the, the *useless* part of the group. You're the Zeppo. 'Cool.' Look it up. It's something that a sub-literate that's repeated twelfth grade three times has, and you don't.

Shut up, Cordy, your brain isn't even connected to your mouth, you know that. But enough with the cool. Let's talk about superpowers. Many in the fandom like to point out that lacking those powers somehow qualified Xander as "useless" part of the group. But useless compared to whom? Certainly, not to Buffy or Willow, 'cause them having their slayer and magic mojos respectively (i. e. considerable adavantage right from the start) makes the whole comparison senseless. And then how exactly did Oz's "superpowers" help the gang in the fight, huh? Him being in his mindless animalistic self for three nights every month was sooooo fucking useful for the group, yeah, Cordelia? Much useful than Xander? How exactly did werewolf put Oz in league with the Slayer, the Witch, the ensouled vampire and the Watcher with twenty years of fighting experience?? Xander's words and actions helped saving the day on many occassions (rocket launcher, remember?). Maybe we should face the truth and freakin' admit that Oz due to his condition was a burden to the Scoobs (someone had to watch him every full moon night while at SHS) and in fact it was he, whom we can call "useless" to some extent (what the state he was in meant for the Scoobies we saw in Beauty and the Beasts, for example). What was that "thing" Oz had and Xander lacked??? Just confidence and luck probably. But then again what was Oz's unique contribution? Occassional sense of humour (and they keep calling Xander a "comic relief")? Guitar playing? Yeah, he had his moments (What's My Line, Part 2, Innocence, Dead Man's Party, Beauty and the Beasts, Lovers Walk, The Wish, Gingerbread and Choices come to mind), but mostly he participated in the fight along with the others and yours truly can see no reason to put him over Xander in terms of input for the cause. There were lots of moments when his contribution was minimal or next to nothing (Revelations, The Zeppo, Consequences, Doppelgangland, Beer Bad). Therefore Oz appeared to be quite an assholish type that moment in Fear, Itself:

Quote

Xander:  “And here I was wasting time buying them flowers and complimenting them on their shoes.  So, you go through the whole house of horrors downstairs and it ends up here.  Sweet.  You fratly guys have a nice setup.”
2.Guy:  “Hey, mighty, mighty Alpha Delts.  You should think about pledging.”
Oz:  “Oh, Xander is a civilian.”
2.Guy:  “Ah!  Townie, huh?  Didn’t know.  He looked so normal.  You sure we should let him come to the party, Oz?”
Xander:  “Hey, standing right here.”

True, Xander was a civilian, but he saved everyone's asses on more than one occassion - yours including, Mr. Werewolf. He wasn't a fool and what you, Oz, did to Willow was ten thousand times worse than anything Xander did before or after. In fact the moment Willow called your name in Becoming, Part 2 was one of the worst and most fucking unfair moments in the history of Buffyverse! If the whole W/O relationship deepened due to the fact that Willow thought it was Wolfboy's "I love you" at the hospital, then Oz got one of the biggest credits he didn't deserve. No way. No freakin' way.

I know many will strongly disagree, but I guess it's time to face the music and accept that His Royal Werewolfness wasn't in fact as cool as so many still believe him to be. Seth Green's character was nowhere near as terrific to spare his life and let Angelus kill Jenny Calendar instead in season 2. Oz left in season 4 and I say: "Good riddance, Wolfboy! I hope you'll make it big with the Dingoes".

Edited September 6, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

Hee-hee-hee-hee-hee.  Now that's passion, baby.  But remember, using Wild at Heart to prove that Oz sucks is just plain cheating.  I mean, he sucks in about ten different ways in that episode.  Not telling Buffy (who has experience fighting werewolves, and access to that handy tranq-gun) about a menace to public safety because you want to fuck Veruca some more being only the most obvious one.

And I'd like somebody to consider the possibility that the "clothes fluke" might have happened because Willow might have been emotionally scarred from Oz trying to eat her in Beauty and the Beasts, and so it's natural for her to fall back on Dear Old Xander the next episode.  But the show won't undermine the paragon that it Oz, not so much because the staff loved W/O so much, but because with the knowledge that Bangel and Xordelia were doomed to be spun off, Joss wanted one "stable" couple for fans to be invested in.  And then of course, Seth got Knockaround Boys and screwed Joss over hard, anyhow.  Not that I necessarily wanted to see a whole season Oz/Veruca, mind you.  (Poor Paige Moss in that screencap…she looks as though she knows the reviews she's going to get for her performance…)

Still, marginalized Xander was probably not a side effect of W/O, per se, but the Bangel fans' desire to string him up because of The Lie.  And with Angel's departure already announced at the summer upfronts, the anti-Xander feeling from those who thought B/A was The Love of the Ages was…not inconsiderable, let's say.  So giving Non-Threatening Oz a "win" over That Jackass was a way to cater to the more angry section of the fanbase.  Some of whom did in fact leave with the B/A split, so it's not as if Joss had no cause for concern.

1 hour ago, lembergwatcher said:

There were lots of moments when his contribution was minimal or next to nothing (Revelations, The Zeppo, Consequences, Doppelgangland, Beer Bad).

Actually, he isn't "next to" anything in Consequences, as Seth doesn't appear in the ep at all.  Can't get any more "minimal" than that, baby,

Edited September 6, 2018 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

But remember, using Wild at Heart to prove that Oz sucks is just plain cheating

Well, for me that was the only ep (maybe apart from Phases, Beauty and the Beasts or New Moon Rising) where he did something memorable.
 

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Actually, he isn't "next to" anything in Consequences, as Seth doesn't appear in the ep at all.  Can't get any more "minimal" than that, baby,

Also sometimes it's pretty hard for me to tell, whether Oz made a brief appearance in the ep or didn't appear at all and vice versa, 'cause that's mostly the same thing.
 

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Still, marginalized Xander was probably not a side effect of W/O, per se, but the Bangel fans' desire to string him up because of The Lie.

I'm not that gifted to understand in what way did "The Lie" lead to Angelus' demise (and not Angelus himself removing the sword from Acathla), but that's probably the rhetorical question... And if Bangel's fans were the only ones that mattered, why not kill "The Jackass" for good (give him fatal head injury in Enemies) or make him leave town for that cross-country roadtrip earlier and never to return. Or make him follow Faith's path and let Buffy gut him with that knife too. While watchin' the third season back in the day I wanted some big falling out between X and the gang following The Zeppo and Consequences and then several attempts on Oz's life. 

Quote

Xander: I'm aware it scores kinda high on the hokey-meter, but I think it will be good for me. You know, help me to find myself.
 
Cordelia: And help us to lose you. Everyone's a winner.

One of the reasons I still carry "We hate Cordelia" club membership card, btw :)

Because portaying Xander the way they did through season 3 and then all of a sudden promoting him to be the "key guy" (that same Xander the Scoobs didn't want to take slaying several eps earlier when no one gave a damn 'bout his past mystical military knowledge) in season's finale kinda screamed phoniness IMO.  

But if that's true about Bangel e.t.c., then I'm kinda glad to know Oz won not because he was in any way better, but because he didn't threaten Angel's alpha male status (i. e. was a wishy-washy plastic werewolf).

Edited September 6, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

10 minutes ago, lembergwatcher said:

And if Bangel's fans were the only ones that mattered, why not kill "The Jackass" for good (give him fatal head injury in Enemies) or make him leave town for that cross-country roadtrip earlier and never to return.

Three words: Five.Year.Contract.  Xander ain't going nowhere when they've still got 50+ paychecks they owe Nick Brendon, after all. 

14 minutes ago, lembergwatcher said:

One of the reasons I still carry "We hate Cordelia" club membership card, btw :)

Are you the Treasurer, these days?  Because I think Xander got disqualified on that one after Innocence.

[lembergwatcher]

6 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

Three words: Five.Year.Contract.  Xander ain't going nowhere when they've still got 50+ paychecks they owe Nick Brendon, after all.

[lembergwatcher]

Didn't know about that fact until recently.

[Joe Hellandback]

16 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Well, I know one in every two here will tear me a new one for saying things like that about the established Buffyversal darling, but here's a couple of my subjective and biased thoughts regarding Mr. Daniel "Oz" Osbourne. Don't throw stones at me, but IMO that guy is one of the most (unfairly) overrated characters in the whole Buffyverse. Which itself did our mute Wolfboy a great disservice. He was a lucky guy, not a noble guy.

When asked about that particular character four things usually come to mind. 1. He played guitar in a local high school band; 2. He was a werewolf. 3. He dated Willow (the best girl in the realm) between S.02 Phases and S.04 Wild at Heart ("Oh, wow, one of the longest relationships in the series!!!" - some impressionable fans continue to claim to this day). 4. He took some part in the Scooby Gang's activity. 

The Great Buffyversal Myth of Oz usually claims Wolfboy was the very first to notice Willow that way, to see her not as mere a "guy friend that knows about girl stuff" or "study buddy". Willoz fans still swoon with delight recalling that particular scene in Inca Mummy Girl where noble "cool-looking" guitarist quickly saw how beatiful Willow was in her eskimo outfit. They usually don't give a hoot about another (much more tender) moment in one of the earlier eps. The fact that Xander considered kissing his best friend even for a second or two in When She Was Bad proves he wasn't such a totally oblivious fool when it came to Willow's beauty and womanhood, as many people like to believe. Then again let us not forget that the very first to notice Willow that way was none other than Malcolm/Moloch himself in I, Robot... You, Jane (he called Willow "my love", remember?). That was long before Oz even appeared in the picture. Still I don't see that many people ready to give Moloch a credit for acknowledging Willow's beauty. Oz was the first to compliment shy and insecure Willow? Well, yeah, but Moloch did it too (so what's the deal?). Others love Danny-boy for his restraint in response to Willow sending signals in Innocence or Amends (they had Xander to think with his dick after all). Good boy, Oz. But, like it or not, it wasn't Oz's unique character trait. Xander too was decent enough not to take advantage when Willow openly suggested him being her "first" in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered. You think Willow in Xander's bed, wearing nothing but her lifelong friend's shirt, was any less seductive then the one who liked making hints, while listening to Barry White in her room? Btw, how about showing the same amount of restraint with your Veruca baby, Oz?


I love it when they always claim Oz was such a huuuuuuuuuge gift for Willow. I love it even more when they say a piece of furniture that occassionally played guitar/gave some witty comments was an even bigger step ahead for our beloved redhead, a sure sign of maturity and a character growth, source for inspiration and the reason for her growing self-esteem (Willow had to move on, they say, because that evil misogynist bitch Xander kept the poor girl down for so long). What I dislike is that in order to show Oz's (non-existent) "greatness" the writers did everything to denigrate one of the best characters in the show (and one of my favorites), starting to portray Xander as a constant pain in the gang's collective ass, babbling idiot, pathetic loser and everyone's buttmonkey. It all began in season 3, 'cause Joss wanted everyone to love Willoz, wanted us to expect Willow to make her final choice in favor of writers' wolfboy darling (the whole Xander/Faith little sexfest was invented purely for that reason). To highlight the series' new "boyfriend of the season" they had to make Xander look miserable "one step forward-two steps back" guy. Emphasizing how shiny and glorious someone is you have to pick someone else to be dark and smelly. For comparison purposes. Willow had to choose Oz, she was obliged to, she freakin' owed him for what they had (in what twisted dictionary reconsiling purely out of guilt  is a sign of true love or healthy relationship?) And don't tell me whole "fluke" thing happened solely because of the freakin' formal wear and not because Willow and Xander didn't love their significant others that much.

Then Oz was half-beast. Partly animal. Yeah, three nights out of the months, blah-blah-blah, and the werewolves are mostly cool and non-dangerous types when there's no full moon up in the sky, blah-blah-blah... Yeah, he asked to be locked up in a cage and we can easily ignore Veruca's "you're a wolf all the time and this human face is just your disguise", 'coz she's, ya know, Veruca, but still... Wolf is animal. Willow is human. Making her lose her virginity to the guy who was a carnivore in part smells like some light version of bestiality to me. Of couse I appreciate Oz not eating Willow or anyoune else and, true he didn't enjoy that werewolf shit in him the way Veruca did, but "I'm not happy with something" doesn't usually mean "I can control it". The guy himself confirmed he still didn't know that much 'bout his  condition before leaving heartbroken Willow in Wild at Heart:

  Oh yeah, how about figuring out before you started dating the poor girl in Phases, dumbass? Why not ask some inconvenient questions regarding the wolf inside you before affair with Veruca and almost tearing Willow to pieces? Being with someone else while knowing damn well you have something you still don't know much about and cannot fully control, is a suuuuure sign of caring for your significant other, brothers and sisters! If he truly loved Willow (and was concerned for her safety) he would stay away from the girl until learning enough about his hairy alter ego. But Oz didn't give a shit about Willow, he was just a wolf looking for a mate, and she was "his possession like a jewel on his crown" (hence violent reaction to Willow's smell on Tara in broad daylight in New Moon Rising).


Anyway, I still don't get it what was so special 'bout the whole Willoz hype? Yes, Oz was a cool silent type, with the claim to intellectualism, played in a band. Interesting guy in a way and those types will always get the upper hand over Xander types, but... his role in the show? Was looking "cool and trendy" or dating Willow enough for Oz to be placed over, say, Xander in all those ratings? I mean, come on, for the most of the third season we saw him more like Willow's shadow, constantly following her (remember, "As Willow goes, so goes my nation" in Homecoming or "If you don't need me, I'm gonna follow the red-head" in Earshot?). Repeating the senior year of high school just to be around your girlfriend? I thought it was Angel's prerogative to be the creepy stalker guy (Willoz and Bangel were true "Olsen twins" of the series). Not a sign of healthy relationship, but a case of some control-freakery, I must say (ironically, I didn't see Willow and Oz having classes together, so who can guarantee there were no more W/X footsies in class, when the Werewolf was nowhere in sight?).  Therefore I still can't describe the amount of joy I feel watchin' last "Ozless" season 2 eps: Passion, Killed by Death, Go Fish (even I Only Have Eyes for You is not that bad)...

Speaking of Willoz... Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Oz who decided the time had come for him and Willow to start dating, it was Oz who decided when was the most appropriate time for making amends/resumption of his and Willow's relationship, and it was Wolfboy who made a first step for consummating their love, and then it was his decision to leave abruptly following Veruca crisis, telling Willow she didn't have a say in their relationship (everything had to be his way, yeah?). I don't mind seeing so many people drooling for that particular couple, but... Damn, was Oz really the best for our Wicca? I guess him handling the Veruca deal speaks volumes. Not telling Giles or Buffy was bad enough. But it got worse when he decided it would be the best for everyone if the Wolfgirl stayed with him in the cage for those several nights (although initially it was Buffy's stupid idea to bring him "a roomie"). Two wild beasts, one cage. It meant either fight or fuck. I don't think Willow would be too happy finding naked Oz groping naked Veruca's breast or having her/his throat torn out the next morning (of course, fuck was more preferable to fight, but was he going to... what? invite her in every month??). And then the guy just outdid himself after being caught with his pants down:

Oh yeah, 'cause pretending everything was behind them, holding a grudge and then fuckin' using it  as some sort of justification of his misbehaving was soooooooooo mature. Great, Wolfboy, just great. 'Coz Willow having illicit smoochies with Xander and you having a rough fuck  with the beasty whore were exactly the same things! And then Mr. Perfect Gentleman just ran away with his tail between his legs. leaving Willow broken and depressed. What a sign of manliness and bravery! Probably, it should have been Seth Green's character to have the "hyena moments" in one of the eps. Or someone in the writing staff simply confused the wolf with, say, chipmunk? You tell me. 


You know, I would have more respect for the writers if they were a little less stereotypical/predictable. If they let Xander not to think with his dick, tell his fears and insecurities to go "f" themselves and choose shy vulnerable Willow over supermodel-type of girl like Cordelia. Or if they allowed Willow to turn a blind eye on Xander's goofy demeanor (and baggy clothing) and choose her best bud over cool-looking guitarist playing with some Pearl Jam impersonators. But no, unfortunately. Xander was a child of alcoholic parents, his academic performance wasn't impressive, he listened to uncool country music and the only girl who wanted to be his prom date was a former hellbitch and homicidal maniac ('cause, you know, Xander had to attract only such types). Demon magnet - how funny is that, ha-ha-ha? Even him almost bleeding to death after the date with a demon chick in First Date was presented as some kinda joke. Demon magnet, ha-ha-ha. Why? Because the uncool types are scum (just look at Jonathan)! That was one of Buffy's messages from then on (an obvious departure from celebrating "uncool" types in season 1). Supernatural rules! Everymen are "redneck morons", kill the uncool! You know, I still can't decide what I hate more about The Zeppo. That moment:

Or that:

Shut up, Cordy, your brain isn't even connected to your mouth, you know that. But enough with the cool. Let's talk about superpowers. Many in the fandom like to point out that lacking those powers somehow qualified Xander as "useless" part of the group. But useless compared to whom? Certainly, not to Buffy or Willow, 'cause them having their slayer and magic mojos respectively (i. e. considerable adavantage right from the start) makes the whole comparison senseless. And then how exactly did Oz's "superpowers" help the gang in the fight, huh? Him being in his mindless animalistic self for three nights every month was sooooo fucking useful for the group, yeah, Cordelia? Much useful than Xander? How exactly did werewolf put Oz in league with the Slayer, the Witch, the ensouled vampire and the Watcher with twenty years of fighting experience?? Xander's words and actions helped saving the day on many occassions (rocket launcher, remember?). Maybe we should face the truth and freakin' admit that Oz due to his condition was a burden to the Scoobs (someone had to watch him every full moon night while at SHS) and in fact it was he, whom we can call "useless" to some extent (what the state he was in meant for the Scoobies we saw in Beauty and the Beasts, for example). What was that "thing" Oz had and Xander lacked??? Just confidence and luck probably. But then again what was Oz's unique contribution? Occassional sense of humour (and they keep calling Xander a "comic relief")? Guitar playing? Yeah, he had his moments (What's My Line, Part 2, Innocence, Dead Man's Party, Beauty and the Beasts, Lovers Walk, The Wish, Gingerbread and Choices come to mind), but mostly he participated in the fight along with the others and yours truly can see no reason to put him over Xander in terms of input for the cause. There were lots of moments when his contribution was minimal or next to nothing (Revelations, The Zeppo, Consequences, Doppelgangland, Beer Bad). Therefore Oz appeared to be quite an assholish type that moment in Fear, Itself:

True, Xander was a civilian, but he saved everyone's asses on more than one occassion - yours including, Mr. Werewolf. He wasn't a fool and what you, Oz, did to Willow was ten thousand times worse than anything Xander did before or after. In fact the moment Willow called your name in Becoming, Part 2 was one of the worst and most fucking unfair moments in the history of Buffyverse! If the whole W/O relationship deepened due to the fact that Willow thought it was Wolfboy's "I love you" at the hospital, then Oz got one of the biggest credits he didn't deserve. No way. No freakin' way.

I know many will strongly disagree, but I guess it's time to face the music and accept that His Royal Werewolfness wasn't in fact as cool as so many still believe him to be. Seth Green's character was nowhere near as terrific to spare his life and let Angelus kill Jenny Calendar instead in season 2. Oz left in season 4 and I say: "Good riddance, Wolfboy! I hope you'll make it big with the Dingoes".

Verucca isn't 'Average'. She is a ho though. 

7 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Didn't know about that fact until recently.

Which one? I know ED and Amber were in a movie together but which is she in with Seth?

[lembergwatcher]

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Which one? I know ED and Amber were in a movie together but which is she in with Seth?

"Can't Hardly Wait". Eric Balfour, Paige Moss & Channon Roe also starred.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can't_Hardly_Wait

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 11:29 AM, lembergwatcher said:

"Can't Hardly Wait". Eric Balfour, Paige Moss & Channon Roe also starred.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can't_Hardly_Wait

Never seen it, must watch out for it. 

[Halting Hex]

Ironically enough, that's the movie-premiere party where I (briefly) met Seth.  It was at the Hollywood Athletic Club; a nice enough space, but nothing special.

I wasn't much of a BTVS fan as yet, so I mostly praised him for Good & Evil, his previous ABC comedy, tragically yanked after 6 episodes.  (I'd been a fan of Susan Harris's satirical work, going back to Soap.). Also saw Alyson Hannigan as I was leaving the theatre for the walk over to the party, but I don't recall if she went to the party, too.  (Star Lauren Ambrose was there, as was…whoever the other male lead was,  I forget.)

The movie itself is nothing special, IMO.  Seth's the best part.

[Joe Hellandback]

7 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Ironically enough, that's the movie-premiere party where I (briefly) met Seth.  It was at the Hollywood Athletic Club; a nice enough space, but nothing special.

I wasn't much of a BTVS fan as yet, so I mostly praised him for Good & Evil, his previous ABC comedy, tragically yanked after 6 episodes.  (I'd been a fan of Susan Harris's satirical work, going back to Soap.). Also saw Alyson Hannigan as I was leaving the theatre for the walk over to the party, but I don't recall if she went to the party, too.  (Star Lauren Ambrose was there, as was…whoever the other male lead was,  I forget.)

The movie itself is nothing special, IMO.  Seth's the best part.

Lauren Ambrose? Loved Six Foot Under! 

[Halting Hex]

I really can't get past them failing Oz to keep him in the high school in Season 3.  I mean, Oz is supposed to be as smart as Willow…why the f would he not graduate, again?  So he missed an exam or six (even though he didn't get tortured or run away or have a massive concussion that landed him in a wheelchair), why can't he just take a makeup test, as Buffy does?  Hell, Xander isn't exactly a brainiac and he had a broken wrist, but he still passed his exams and is a senior now.  

And then he somehow skips an entire summer's worth of summer school and Willow never finds out? What bullshit.  

And for what purpose, exactly?  It's not as though they've ever shown Oz in class with the Scoobs, and they never do. Send him to college and if you need him to drop by the Library after school for research, no problem.  Hell, if you need him to help out during the day, he can blow off class.  It's not as though musicians with high-school girlfriends never skip out on their college classes, ffs.

Outside the show, it just drives me crazy because it's such forced and hacky writing.  Inside the show, it makes Oz look like a fucking stalker.  I mean even Angel didn't give up the rest of his life to keep sniffing around Buffy; does the line "'Hi, honey, you're in mortal danger; I'll see you next month'" ring a bell?  Grrr.

[lembergwatcher]

5 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I really can't get past them failing Oz to keep him in the high school in Season 3.  I mean, Oz is supposed to be as smart as Willow…why the f would he not graduate, again?

Not just smart: "A-and you're practically a genius." (though no proof of his genius was ever given during Oz's entire stint with the Scoobies). Probably, Joss W. wanted all of us to believe Oz "loved" Willow sooooo much, he was willing to sacrifice  the joys of college life (lots of partying and occasional sex) and everything else in her name. Such a nice little boy.

And yes, he was a stalker. Seems to me, the Wolfboy got some bad-bad vibes following X/W hospital moments (maybe he overheard Xander's declaration of love, 'cause the wolves gotta have not only SuperNose, but some SuperEars as well). Or the guy was alarmed after noticing the way Willow looked at Xander during their summer patrols. So he decided to keep everything under control. Predators tend to act as control freaks when it comes to their mates after all.

Edited September 12, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Joe Hellandback]

9 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I really can't get past them failing Oz to keep him in the high school in Season 3.  I mean, Oz is supposed to be as smart as Willow…why the f would he not graduate, again?  So he missed an exam or six (even though he didn't get tortured or run away or have a massive concussion that landed him in a wheelchair), why can't he just take a makeup test, as Buffy does?  Hell, Xander isn't exactly a brainiac and he had a broken wrist, but he still passed his exams and is a senior now.  

And then he somehow skips an entire summer's worth of summer school and Willow never finds out? What bullshit.  

And for what purpose, exactly?  It's not as though they've ever shown Oz in class with the Scoobs, and they never do. Send him to college and if you need him to drop by the Library after school for research, no problem.  Hell, if you need him to help out during the day, he can blow off class.  It's not as though musicians with high-school girlfriends never skip out on their college classes, ffs.

Outside the show, it just drives me crazy because it's such forced and hacky writing.  Inside the show, it makes Oz look like a fucking stalker.  I mean even Angel didn't give up the rest of his life to keep sniffing around Buffy; does the line "'Hi, honey, you're in mortal danger; I'll see you next month'" ring a bell?  Grrr.

Yeah, definitely the Hellmouth Genius effect, Remember Oz is living the rock and roll lifestyle and maybe the Rosenbergs took a trip to Israel during the summer?

[lembergwatcher]

6 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Yeah, definitely the Hellmouth Genius effect, Remember Oz is living the rock and roll lifestyle and maybe the Rosenbergs took a trip to Israel during the summer?

Daddy and Momma Rosenbergs probably took that trip, but Willow was busy with the Hellmouth.

[Halting Hex]

Given that they had to fly back from Phoenix when Willow landed in the hospital, I don't if Ira and Sheila made any long-distance plans that summer. They probably were their usual absent selves, overall, since once Willow got out of that wheelchair, she spends her nights patrolling, but I'd assume they kept themselves domestic, in case of a relapse.

And while the Dingoes might have booked some out of town dates, sure, I'd assume Oz had scheduled those for the weekends. Would be even stranger if he'd pre-planned failing summer school…although it would fit the "stalker" theory, I suppose.  But Oz just got done taking two substantial band trips the previous school year (Passion/Killed by Death are months before I Only Have Eyes For You/Go Fish; they're only joined by the consecutive airings and SG's absence), so you'd think he wouldn't be too worried about leaving Willow without his watchful wolfy eyes.

[lembergwatcher]

It could have been a spectacular rivalry throughout several seasons...

[Joe Hellandback]

16 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

It could have been a spectacular rivalry throughout several seasons...

Xander; "Oz, can you tell me about your superpowers?"

Oz; "Well I can fit inside you shaving kit"

[lembergwatcher]

[lembergwatcher]

[Joe Hellandback]

9 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Like the earrings!

[lembergwatcher]

Summing up most of my Oz-related thoughts and rants, I still can't figure out why the heck does that guy get a free pass almost every time? Just a few examples:

2.14. Willow accidentally sees Xordelia smoochies (yuck!), overreacts at first but then turns around and runs away before Xander can truly explain anything. Says she wants to "get this straight" later on, doesn't let Xander say a word on the matter by quickly changing the subject since "what's happening right now is more important". But the thing is: there's always something happening in the places like Sunnydale. Always. All the time. By Willow's logic, there won't be any opportunity for big talk until both she and Xander end up old and grey "in neighboring rest homes" (if they'll live that long, of course). Apparently she doesn't give a hoot about anything Xander has to say and that's truly sad. Starts dating Oz soon afterwards.

3.15. After the truth about X/F one night stand comes to light Willow breaks down and cries in the school toilet. Since then, no W/X scenes at all for nearly 14 episodes (until Wild at Heart), zero proofs/hints there was any face-to-face communication between the two of them off screen. No teary conversations, heartfelt confessions, pleas or fights, no nothing.

4.06. Oz cheats on Willow with some skanky ho-type and then nearly gets her killed, bringing up "the fluke" in the process. Then runs away with his wolfy tail between his legs giving the stupidest explanation ("The wolf is inside me all the time, and I don't know where that line is anymore between me and it. And until I figure out what that means, I shouldn't be around you... Or anybody"). He decides to leave SunnyD 'cause he cares about Willow and doesn't want to hurt the girl, Oz's fans continue to say. No, he runs away because he doesn't want to: a) face the consequences of his actions; b) make an effort to fix things with Willow and accept whatever possible outcome. But while Oz's dealing with things is disgusting, Willow's reaction is kinda hilarious: first she nearly curses Oz & Veruca with some truly dark magic, then (after the near-death experience, mind you) comes to Oz almost begging him to stay ("Oz... Don't you love me?" - Of course, he doesn't. Get over it, Will). Like it's all her fault and she's the guilty party here.

4.09. Oz cowarldly sneaks into his dorm room like a thief in the night and takes away the rest of his belongings (or asks Devon/his other friends to do the job for him). Willow reacts with more tears and sniffing Oz's clothing. No photographs cutting/burning Cordelia-style, no calling him "dick" or saying "How could I fall for that pathetic loser???" No spell-casting and turning Oz into slimy frog. Taking it out on Giles, Buffy and Xander instead. 

4.19. Wolfy Boy returns to Sunnydale without warning, full of hope that giving him a second chance is all Willow thinks about. Screw the circumstances of their break-up and months-long radio silence that followed, screw the fact Willow has no other choice but to move on with her life... Then Wolfy Boy ends up almost killing his former girlfriend's girlfriend. Consequences? What's that? Even Riley and Anya volunteer to save his ass from the Initiative dungeons while Amnesia!Willow admits some part of her "will always be waiting for" the jerk later. How romantic... You may do whatever stupid thing and she will continue waiting for you, Oz. At least, Oz is allowed to talk to Willow and explain while Xander doesn't seem to have the same privilege.

I remember having a discussion with Halting Hex regarding B/X issues in Becoming, Part 1, i.e. why does Buffy have a decisive voice while Xander doesn't. Well, true Buffy is the Slayer, the Chosen One, the One Girl who carries the Weight of the World, risking her life every night and so on. But Oz? Who is Oz? What is so unique about him and his input, he gets a free a pass and more favorable treatment (from writers and fans alike) than, say, Xander most of the time?

On 9/6/2018 at 8:02 PM, Halting Hex said:

But the show won't undermine the paragon that it Oz, not so much because the staff loved W/O so much, but because with the knowledge that Bangel and Xordelia were doomed to be spun off, Joss wanted one "stable" couple for fans to be invested in.

Stable couples should have been Joss' last concern because none of the Scoobies having "a happy, normal relationship" was an established fact/official party line since IRYJ.

On 9/6/2018 at 8:02 PM, Halting Hex said:

Still, marginalized Xander was probably not a side effect of W/O, per se, but the Bangel fans' desire to string him up because of The Lie.  And with Angel's departure already announced at the summer upfronts, the anti-Xander feeling from those who thought B/A was The Love of the Ages was…not inconsiderable, let's say.

Though it's still hard for me to understand  why did Team Joss continue to marginalize Xander even after Angel and Oz went bye-bye?

Edited April 15, 2019 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

8 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

[Willow] doesn't let Xander say a word on the matter by quickly changing the subject since "what's happening right now is more important". But the thing is: there's always something happening in the places like Sunnydale. Always. All the time.

Nuh-uh, nope.  Season 2, for example, takes place over nine-months' time, and there are only 19 stories in it (given the three two-parters).  Probably less than six weeks' worth of days are seen on screen.  There are plenty of quiet moments, such as the start of Reptile Boy (or Ted, or Go Fish) where the Scoobs are happily in their normal lives, no urgent business at hand.  And that's just what we see on screen; as noted, there's probably much unseen downtime, as well.

And, even by aired-episode standards, what's happening in Surprise/Innocence is fairly freaksome; as Cordelia notes, "there's an unkillable demon on the loose, Angel's joined his team, and the Slayer's a basket case."  I think Willow's completely right to focus on the big picture.  Which, btw, frees Xander up to be the hero, and think of the plan that saves the world.    Talking through his and Willow's issues can wait, say until the worst thing happening is a werewolf hunter dropping by.

8 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

no W/X scenes at all for nearly 14 episodes ([Consequences] until Wild at Heart)

That's of the suck, but it seems as though it might be Xander less willing to reach out to Willow than vice versa.  He thinks she "chose" Oz in the coma, he blames his "cheating" with her during the "fluke" for Cordelia's nearly dying, and Willow made the "no touching" rule pretty darn clear.  So it's not as if Willow's just snubbing him while he's pining away, silently.

8 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Willow's reaction is kinda hilarious: …almost begging him to stay…Like it's all her fault and she's the guilty party here.

Well, he did just throw the "fluke" in her face.  Whether it justifies his rolling around the cage with the psycHO (or, obviously, not), she has to be wondering if she contributed to this, somehow.  "Uncoupling" is rarely as easy as Faith, Hope and Trick makes it seem.

8 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

4.09. Oz cowardly sneaks into his dorm room like a thief in the night and takes away the rest of his belongings (or asks Devon/his other friends to do the job for him).

It's specified that Oz wrote to Devon and "sent for his things".  For all we know, he wasn't in the country, much less Sunnydale.

8 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

no calling [Oz] "dick" or saying "How could I fall for that pathetic loser???"

While Oz is arguably a dick, he doesn't actually seem to be a loser.  His band is popular, he hardly lacks for female companionship, he gets to travel the world, and he's even found a (sort of) cure for his condition.  Cheating on Willow won't earn him any points with her friends (although Xander seems a bit too companionable when Oz returns), but it doesn't de facto make Oz a "loser".  People cheat all the time.

(Including Xillow themselves, sadly.)

8 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Stable couples should have been Joss' last concern because none of the Scoobies having "a happy, normal relationship" was an established fact/official party line since IRYJ.

A bonding moment over temporary depression doesn't have to be an ironclad prophecy.  Not to mention that most of the audience Joss was trying to keep hold of had come on board since then.

8 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

why did Team Joss continue to marginalize Xander even after Angel and Oz went bye-bye?

Because the Angel fans were still pissed at him and because Xander's Season 4 storyline was written before Oz's got truncated.  Once we reached the fresh canvas of S5, it was Willow who was doomed to heartbreak ("bury your gays!") because them lezzies are all crazy, don't you know?  Meanwhile, our steadfast carpenter ended with the "miraculous love" that became the series' longest-lasting relationship.  

(From The Harsh Light of Day to Hell's Bells is 58 episodes, or half the length of the series to that point.  Longer than the entirety of the high school seasons.  And that's a conservative estimate, given that Xanya are hardly truly finished then, either.)

Yay?

Edited April 15, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

Talking through his and Willow's issues can wait,

Sure, it can. Then again, even the quietest moments in places like Sunnyhell are fairly relative. Thus one can always find some plausible excuse to avoid talking through issues. Hellmouth is still there even without imminent danger in sight.

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

Well, he did just throw the "fluke" in her face.  Whether it justifies his rolling around the cage with the psycHO (or, obviously, not), she has to be wondering if she contributed to this, somehow.

That's precisely what I'm talkin' about. Some people tend to find any possible excuse when it comes to types like Oz. And I always thought him bringing up the "fluke" was another reason for Willow to be disgusted, rather than take any word coming from a guy caught with his pants down seriously. Apparently I was wrong.

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

While Oz is arguably a dick, he doesn't actually seem to be a loser.

He doesn't have to be an actual loser to earn this nickname from his (former) girlfriend. Just like Xander isn't one either no matter what we like to believe. Even one-eyed Xander from Buffy's seventh season looks much better than Cordelia from Angel's season four, after all.

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

A bonding moment over temporary depression doesn't have to be an ironclad prophecy.  Not to mention that most of the audience Joss was trying to keep hold of had come on board since then.

Ehm... well, yes.... Even though it turned out to be exactly the way you call it: an ironclad prophecy. As for the audience, Joss himself made it pretty darn clear: "What people want is not what they need". Talking about stable couples: why couldn't it be Giles/some OFC (G-Man was in desperate need of hanging out with someone his age).

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Because the Angel fans were still pissed at him and because Xander's Season 4 storyline was written before Oz's got truncated.

1) Angel's fans got their own Fangboy-centric show and therefore had to get over/lighten up/start taking pills. It's kinda sad when Angel's fans' opinion matters (even though Captain Forehead isn't in the show anymore) when it comes to Xander, but Xander's fans opinion doesn't. I don't think anyone cared what Xander's fans or Xillow 'shippers thought while writing Willow's season 7 storyline;

2) Wasn't Willow's storyline written before Oz's departure as well? No need to turn Xander into some sort of paragon, but some nod to Xander and his fans was quite acceptable.

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Meanwhile, our steadfast carpenter ended with the "miraculous love" that became the series' longest-lasting relationship.  

Well, yeah. That was "miraculous love". Very miraculous. From Angel's fans POV. Even though I have to be cheered up by that fact, I'm not. Why? Reason #1? Anya. Reason #2? Anya. Reason #3? Anya.

And don't forget about the final season, i.e. Willow having a new relationship with a hot girl, Xander having his eye gouged.

[MapleCourt]

For all the Willow/Oz fans: Do the two of them ever actually have a meaningful conversation? I can't recall a single conversation between them between their introduction in Season 2 and their breakup in Season 4. The only conversations I noticed were at the end of Season 3 where Willow realizes that this douchebag actually has nothing to say to her, so he decides it's time to pull out the sex card.

I guess there's also the Christmas one where Oz says he won't have sex with Willow, but again, do they every talk about anything other than "Will you/won't you date me/kiss me/have sex with me/break up with me/get back together with me" ???

Edited November 9, 2023 by MapleCourt

[lembergwatcher]

Yeah... 😞
Xander *saves Willow & others for the umpteenth time*
Fandom: "Big deal, any fool can do that!"
Oz *gives Willow some mediocre Pez witch*
Fandom: "Oz is a GOD! She should've had sex with him/married him right then and there!"

Willow chosing "cool" Oz over "uncool" Xander post-"Fluke" was actually one of the most conformist and dumb things ever. For a show that told us it was ok to be uncool & unpopular throughout the first two seasons it was a drastic change for the worse.

It was mostly about the hype. Oz looked and talked "cool" (in the most superficial way) and thus Willow should've been happy and grateful he laid his eyes on her. While their post-Fluke relationship continued mostly because Willow thought that she "owed" Oz something for whatever twisted reason. 

[Halting Hex]

On 11/9/2023 at 4:56 PM, MapleCourt said:

do [Willow/Oz] ever talk about anything other than "Will you/won't you date me/kiss me/have sex with me/break up with me/get back together with me" ???

Well, Oz's academics get a few mentions along the way.  From discussing his being recruited by Totally-Not-Microsoft in WML2 to his 'fessing up about ditching summer school in order to spend an entire extra year stalking his underage girlfriend in Anne to Willow gently rebuking him for the same in BatB.  Of course, it's ridiculous that Oz would do this when he could probably test out with his GED during a lunch break, and ridiculous that Willow neither noticed his lassitude nor is on his ass to rectify it, but Joss thought that they needed Seth based in the High School…even though we literally never see Oz in class until The Freshman.

But that's Oz, chronically undeveloped.  I think it's more in my reactions to YT videos than here, but I get so frustrated that everybody is just perfectly fine letting this kid (he's 18-20 when we see him; not even legal drinking age) spend his life in chains, 10% of each month.  Haha, metaphor for menstruation, we get it, but women can still have reasonably full lives while dealing with their "monthly" issues.  (Buffy apparently makes it through multiple crises in School Hard while still discharging the flow of "a nice ripe girl")  Oz gets to be locked up and insane, 3 nights out of every 30.  (Or is it 28?  Lunar months are shorter, right?)

And nobody seems to give a shit.  Not Mr. Watcher-man, who gets paid to deal with this stuff.  Not his never-seen family, who might want to stop this unending curse.  Not Buffy, who validates her life by protecting the Innocent.  Not Xander, who is so desperate for "guy friends" that he spends much of S3 trying to chill out with the guy he cuckolded.  (Which might be a subtly cruel burn, but still.)

And not his exceptionally smart and empathetic girlfriend, who gets emotional about dead people, but doesn't seem terribly upset at her boyfriend's torment.  Nor Oz himself.

Because Oz is nothing but a plot device to keep Xander away from Willow.  A "hologram", as I call him.  Drusilla gets more character development, as does Harmony, as does Forrest.  Waste of several opportunities.  Sigh.

[illdoc]

15 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Not his never-seen family, who might want to stop this unending curse

Still curious about his "Aunt Maureen" (I think that's her name), mother of cousin "Jordy" (whose the one who infected Oz). How did Jordy get turned? Why didn't Aunt Maureen warn everyone (even if she doesn't say "he's a werewolf", how about "he has some sort of possibly contagious illness so don't get too close")?

[Halting Hex]

On 12/9/2023 at 9:18 PM, Halting Hex said:

And nobody seems to give a shit.  Not Mr. Watcher-man, who gets paid to deal with this stuff.  Not his never-seen family, who might want to stop this unending curse.  Not Buffy, who validates her life by protecting the Innocent.  Not Xander, who is so desperate for "guy friends" that he spends much of S3 trying to chill out with the guy he cuckolded.  (Which might be a subtly cruel burn, but still.)

And not his exceptionally smart and empathetic girlfriend, who gets emotional about dead people, but doesn't seem terribly upset at her boyfriend's torment.  Nor Oz himself.

I should probably add the New and Improved (?) Watcher-Man to this list, too.  Wesley's social skills could use some polishing, but he is rather a book nerd, and runs rings around Giles on at least two occasions.  (Identifying the El Eliminati in Bad Girls; figuring out how to get the demon's heart in Earshot.) I'm not saying Wes can name the "Top 5 Ways to Cure Lycanthropy" off the top of his head, but he probably could help.

I grant you, once Wes insists on trading Willow for the Box of Gavrok, Oz is less-likely to trust him, but still.  If you want to stop howling, you'll need to stop scowling, kid.  Put your pride aside.

And while I'm at it, why not blame Angel, too?  He knows what torment it is to have a monster inside of you.  He knows how to research the supernatural (he wasn't using the Codex as a doorstop, and he knew where to find the Glove of Mynhegon without guessing), and he and Oz seem to get on, even in In the Dark, despite the growl-off their monster-selves had back in S2.

Could have gone like this:

Quote

ANGEL:  Hey.

OZ:  Hey.

(Pause.  And pause some more.)

ANGEL:  Ah-heh, how you doing on the Phlebotinase?  I know it takes getting used to sometimes.

OZ: Huh?

ANGEL:  You know.  The stuff you take to avoid going wolfy.

OZ (stunned):  Never heard.

ANGEL:  Really?  They sell it at GNC, you know.

OZ: Huh.

ANGEL:  They keep enough in stock, i notice.  It's not like how the witches are buying up all the sage, so the stores can't keep it on the shelves.

OZ: Wow.

ANGEL:  Surprised Giles didn't tell you.

OZ:  Me, too.

(pause)

ANGEL:  I don't he's doing his best work, lately.

OZ:  Willow agrees.

(pause)

ANGEL:  You think my killing his girlfriend and torturing him had something to do with that?

OZ:  Could be.

ANGEL:  Oh.  (beat) Sorry about that.

OZ: We're cool.

Yup, still following my "Oz only says two words at a time" fanfic rule, lol.

Edited March 3 by Halting Hex