The Americans: Place in the Pantheon?

[Uncle JUICE]

Okay, so this show's finale wasn't perfect (my main beef is leaving Renee unconfirmed, but I understand it as a narrative choice, and about two years ago I knew this show could only have a messy ending for everyone involved), but I still am glad I was on board with this show from day 1. When we watched the finale last night, Mrs. Juice and I tried to figure out where does this show belong in "The Pantheon" of shows. It can immediately be ruled out of the top three for me, it's not Breaking Bad, it's not The Sopranos, and it isn't The Wire. That's where things start to get cloudy and debatable (even The Wire, which ended one season too late, but had a far better level of consistent greatness through its first four seasons, and a similar degree of difficulty). While I think Mad Men had a much better first half of its life than its second, and the acting was overall better than The Americans, I think the Americans had a harder task in front of it (plot driven serial rather than character study), I think the denoument season of The AMericans was stronger and more satisfying. I think Deadwood was a better show overall, but didn't do it long enough to be hands down better. I was a big fan of Justified, but that's another show that had a far lower degree of difficulty. To me, The Americans is easily the best show FX has ever put out, and yeah, I know they did The Shield. 

 

When you think of the other all time great shows from the golden age of television, where, now that it's all said and done, does the Americans rank for you? Why?

[Ellaria]

Nothing will ever top The Wire for me. It elicited such a variety of emotions. Unlike many, I had no problem with its final season. I put Breaking Bad in 2nd place in my list. These two were as close to perfect as any TV show could be. 

I am more critical of two other "greats." Mad Men went on for much too long. At the end, I had long ago lost interest in Don Draper and that made it tough. I was rooting for Roger, Peggy, Pete and Joan. The Sopranos stayed true to its main themes but, again, thought that it hung around for a bit too long and the characters that I cared about were long gone.

The Americans, for me, still comes after all of these shows. It was often hard to get behind some of these characters. Philip was my favorite, particularly as self-awareness starting eating away at him. The show was dark and usually humorless. Lies and duplicity always existed beneath the surface. While that was true to its nature, it was, at times, unsettling.

FX is always taken chances on shows and never shied away from airing complex, dark or risky content. The Americans is clearly the best of their shows and that is saying quite a lot.

As an aside, I also don't think that you can effectively evaluate a show until it is over.

[ThisIsMe]

17 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

The Americans, for me, still comes after all of these shows. It was often hard to get behind some of these characters. Philip was my favorite, particularly as self-awareness starting eating away at him. The show was dark and usually humorless. Lies and duplicity always existed beneath the surface. While that was true to its nature, it was, at times, unsettling.

I am in agreement, Ellaria.  For me, this show was about Philip and his personal transformation and relationships.  The gory murder scenes were hard for me (not my thing).  

In the genre of "shows about people doing bad things but here's a different side to them" -- I think The Americans is in the Top 5 at least.  But of all shows ever, no, not even Top 10 because - like I said - I don't think the show had enough going for it besides Philip.

[Uncle JUICE]

4 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Nothing will ever top The Wire for me. It elicited such a variety of emotions. Unlike many, I had no problem with its final season. I put Breaking Bad in 2nd place in my list. These two were as close to perfect as any TV show could be. 

I am more critical of two other "greats." Mad Men went on for much too long. At the end, I had long ago lost interest in Don Draper and that made it tough. I was rooting for Roger, Peggy, Pete and Joan. The Sopranos stayed true to its main themes but, again, thought that it hung around for a bit too long and the characters that I cared about were long gone.

The Americans, for me, still comes after all of these shows. It was often hard to get behind some of these characters. Philip was my favorite, particularly as self-awareness starting eating away at him. The show was dark and usually humorless. Lies and duplicity always existed beneath the surface. While that was true to its nature, it was, at times, unsettling.

FX is always taken chances on shows and never shied away from airing complex, dark or risky content. The Americans is clearly the best of their shows and that is saying quite a lot.

As an aside, I also don't think that you can effectively evaluate a show until it is over.

I agree on Mad Men. It felt like it lost its way a little there late, particularly in the very end, and the characters just became sort of weird, like it kind of started believing its own hype. The Sopranos was a somewhat different criticism for me. The show didn't necessarily go on too long as much as it had too many flabby episodes sprinkled into its latter half, and it started to feel somehow diluted as a result if that makes sense. I give both shows some extra credit, though, because they were at least somewhat groundbreaking (Sopranos showing a premium cable drama could be that good, Mad Men was basically the first basic cable prestige hit), but if you remove those elements and just look at them from a storytelling perspective, I think Breaking Bad (my number 1) and The Wire (probably #4) are clearly better. I don't think this show belongs in that echelon, but I can't find enough shows to keep it out of my top ten. For me, BB, Sopranos, The Wire, Mad Men, I loved Deadwood but didn't do it long enough, ETA Game of Thrones (I think the end of last season REALLY hurt this show badly, which is why it didn't immediately spring to mind) that's a pretty unassailable top six, then there's a drop off. If I start to think of it like match play or bracket style, how many shows can this one take down? Is this better than Six Feet Under? I think yes, but that's probably recency bias, but seriously, I've never been "in the mood" to watch Six Feet Under again. I've already watched earlier seasons of this show numerous times.  That has to count for something.

The performances in this show, though, are sublime. The way they have to play characters playing characters most of the time, the level of stress they have to convey, the paranoia that they have to have, the two leads really killed it in this show. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Uncle JUICE

[Bannon]

I can't rank The Wire as among my favorites, because I kind of lost interest the last season. Through Stringer Bell's assassination I'd put it among the best. That would be with The Sopranos, although I'd agree it needed shortening. Deadwood was minute for minute my favorite, and the unplanned finale was  ironically one of my favorite final episodes, a perfect model of ambiguity. If someone wants to hold it back because it only went three seasons, ok, but I loved every single episode. Breaking Bad belongs, and Better Call Saul may get there.

I thought Mad Men was tremedously overrated writing, getting by on great acting and tremendous production values. Game of Thrones I'm not a good judge of, because the genre just isn't for me. It has the best production values of any t.v. show ever, of course, and the acting is great. 

Justified is really inteteresting. Due to the source material, and the writers success in capturing the spirit of Elmore Leonard, the character development, of even the most minor role is simply tremendous, and the humor off the chart. The acting is mostly great; watching the show a second time really drove home how underrated Timothy Olyphant is. The only thing that holds it back is how hard it is to be fresh in the cop show genre, which is no fault of writing and acting; the ground is just too well plowed. The other thing was the limited production value budget. It's hard to capture a sense of place when Southern California is standing in for Kentuckey.

I'd but The Americans somewhere in the 2nd tier of shows. Better acting, by just a tiny bit, than Justified, but writing clearly not as good. I'll never watch Mad Men again, but I might The Americans.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Bannon

[Ellaria]

3 hours ago, Bannon said:

I'd but The Americans somewhere in the 2nd tier of shows. Better acting, by just a tiny bit, than Justified, but writing clearly not as good. I'll never watch Mad Men again, but I might The Americans.

I agree that it belongs in the 2nd tier of shows, mostly because of the writing missteps. The acting was among the best on TV. Still, I will never watch it again. It is not one of those stories that draws me back.

[Bannon]

18 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I agree that it belongs in the 2nd tier of shows, mostly because of the writing missteps. The acting was among the best on TV. Still, I will never watch it again. It is not one of those stories that draws me back.

With the really well acted shows, I like to go back and try to pick up on nuances that I may have missed. Deadwood was like that, along with Milch's dense verbiage being worth multiple passes. I think rewatching Allison Wright's Martha may be worthwhile.

[Umbelina]

I put it just about tied with Alias.  Alias, for it's time, was pretty remarkable most of the time.  

They are both in my top ten shows, and I do, and have watched both again. 

I don't think I could make a list really.  Also, some of the shows I'd pick for top ten probably wouldn't be on most lists, and many are specifically because they were so very different for their time, or all about the acting, or the ride, or the emotional reaction I had to them.

For example, Sex and the City would be in my top ten, for many reasons, but especially because I could easily relate to all of the women, and the friendships, and the romance and relationship disasters and successes.  It made me laugh, and it made me cry many times.

Alias I adored because it was just so very different, it faltered there for a while, as did The American's last season, the ending was problematic, as is The Americans, but still, both kept me glued, surprised me, and took me on a wonderful ride.

Breaking Bad would have to be at the very top for me, just perfection in so many ways, and boy did they stick that landing.

MASH, Game of Thrones, Firefly, House, Frazier, All in the Family, Homeland, Madmen (up until season 5), Northern Exposure, the very first Star Trek, and True Blood are certainly up there.  Handmaid's Tale is definitely up there too, so far, it will depend how they handle it from here on out.

I haven't watched The Wire or The Sopranos.  I probably should!

Edited June 2, 2018 by Umbelina

[ThisIsMe]

Ah, Northern Exposure ... almost forgot about that series.  Terrific series ... quirky in a very charming way.

[crgirl412]

I've only watched the Americans on this kind of channel.  I did watch the Sopranos but not with the gusto like I did the Americans.  Different things took more of my time then so I wasn't completed gutted at the stupid ending.   I think I would like to watch Breaking Bad, Handmaiden's Tale and Downton Abbey (can I put that in here??) I have no interest in the WD and little in GoT. 

In the Laundry Room, I wrote that we should all watch something else together!  I suggested Pose or Snowfall since they are on Fx.

[EtheltoTillie]

I put this show in my top five/six -- hard to rank.  The Wire, Mad Men, Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul (together), The Americans, Fargo and Homeland (I noticed nobody else mentioned Fargo yet).  I watched Mad Men and the Wire in real time and would eagerly anticipate the next episode, as with The Americans.  I watched Breaking Bad after initial release, so I binged.  I stuck with these shows flaws and all.   Despite writing misfires on The Americans, the characters and acting were some of the most compelling I've ever seen.  I thought Game of Thrones was good for a couple of seasons, but I just lost interest and stopped watching.  The Sopranos was a great show, but it's not in my top five. 

Homeland was good for the Costa Ronin fix this year!

Next tier:  Bosch, Ozark, Goliath, and yes, the Number One Ladies' Detective Agency, Sex and the City.  I really liked Southland (the cop show in TNT), tragically cut short.

I'm not including any regular network TV or sitcoms. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by GussieK

[Domestic Assassin]

I think in the pantheon of 21st Century dramas, The Americans fits in that 2nd tier.  I kind of fell out of love with this show in the 5th season, but mostly came back around to it in the 6th.  It is still in my personal list of favorite dramas, including Deadwood, Mad Men and The Leftovers.

[Dev F]

For me, the top tier is still Mad Men and Breaking Bad. They have a rock-solid consistency and a level of ambition -- Breaking Bad in terms of its visual artistry and willing to throw its characters over every cliff without regard for the status quo, Mad Men in terms of its tooth-aching attention to both the smallest period details and the tiniest nuances of its characters' emotional journeys -- that The Americans can't quite match. The Americans especially suffers from occasionally feeling a bit rickety on the "basic artisanship" side of things; it took a while for it to work out whether it wanted to be a procedural or a character study, and all through its run it would have moments where I thought "Well, I get what they're trying to do here, but it's not quite working" (like Jared's endless bleeding-to-death confession, or the weirdly abortive Mischa storyline).

But it's a testament to how much I love what the series does right that I would place it higher in the pantheon than any of my other favorite series that are sometimes rickety and sometimes brilliant -- for instance, Six Feet Under and The Leftovers. I'd place it at the very top of my second tier of favorites, alongside more tightly crafted shows that don't make the first tier for subtler reasons, like Deadwood (which is as polished as something out of Shakespeare but goes on weird tangents that detract from the central story) or Better Call Saul (which for me has never hit a wrong note but also has never quite reached the audacious heights of its predecessor series).

Edited June 3, 2018 by Dev F

[Chaos Theory]

This show would most definitely go in my top ten.  If I thought hard about it it might miss out of my top 5 but right now I think it would make it because from Pilot to finale I genuinely enjoyed it.      Breaking Bad is still number 1.   Although I like Better Call Saul I am not sure it makes the list.    I watched Sopranos but honestly didn’t enjoy it as much as The Americans.  I never liked The Wire or Game of Thrones.  And shows like Dexter and Sons of Anarchy started really well but fizzled out toward the end.   There is Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel but honestly I would put  them both just under The Americans. So yeah off the top of my head definitely top 10. Possibly even top 5.   

*The only comedies I might put on the list are The Good Place And Santa Clarita Diete But neither have ended so I am not putting them on the list.   

Edited June 2, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Chaos Theory]

I have updated my opinion although there are possible shows that have potential to be better then The Americans when all is said and done see Mr. Robot, The Good Place,  Santa Clarita Diet, 12 Monkeys.   As of right now and working under the assumption of shows that have started and finished The Americans is #2 on my list right under Breaking Bad.     From Pilot to START the show has been exceptionally well written and I disagree about Season 5 being a bad season.  Although it was a little too slow it wasn't "bad" and was still better then most show on tv so I might lower that season from a five star show to a four star show but the rest of the series is pretty much a five star show.