Tyrion Lannister: Impin' Ain't Easy

[90PercentGravity]

Sorry, I know the title sucks. Maybe a mod can change it to something more clever.

 

Tyrion's my favorite character. I constantly worry about him. He's always in some pickle or another.

 

I'm pretty sure the trial performance just won PD another Golden Globe.

[Mya Stone]

Mod note: Changed it, but am up for more suggestions. I've had wine, it might not be funny to other people as it is to me. :p 

[abelard]

I'm pretty sure the trial performance just won PD another Golden Globe.

 

I was thinking this, too.  He doesn't say much till the end, but the final speech is a whammy.

 

I was wondering about Tyrion not taking up Shae's suggestion of hightailing it out of KL to Pentos or Essos or wherever she suggested.  That was after Blackwater, when not only did Tyrion have to defend the capitol against an entire invasion with no help from anyone, but he also was targeted for assassination by his own nephew.  At that time, Tyrion said, "I like it [the game].  It's what I'm good at."  That's why he couldn't leave.

 

But...WTF???!!!!  Wtf can Tyrion possibly hope to "win" at, playing this game?  The game is 1000% rigged against him, and has been his entire life.  Don't get me wrong, I freaking love that Tyrion is finding some way to turn this literally jury-rigged trial on its head, but is that...winning?!?!  I guess I just don't see the point of Tyrion playing anymore - from Tyrion's perspective.  As viewers, of course, we love it that Tyrion keeps playing the game b/c that's more entertainment for us.  But I really really do not understand what Tyrion ever thought he could possibly gain by hanging in there and continuing to do this deadly dance for power in KL.  What's "victory" for him?  Staying alive?!?!  

[stillshimpy]

I was thinking this, too.  He doesn't say much till the end, but the final speech is a whammy.

 

Well, this is just my personal opinion, and I've watched it twice, but I actually didn't think that was some of Peter Dinklage's better work. It was very "rowrowrowr, yum, scenery!"  He was chewing it up and not in the good way.  It felt really stagy to me and not really ...real.  It was a little vacant emotionally, again, just for me, but I could see Dinklage acting, vs. being and beyond that?  Man, his accent was all over creation.  

 

I do like the actor, but his scene at the Vale was head and shoulders above that one, I thought, for emotional authenticity.  However, that might be the real gig for me, maybe it felt sort of forced and stale, because ...essentially...they've had that scene with Tyrion before.  I'm actually having a hard time caring about this aspect of the story.  Whereas I know this story has slaughtered "good" characters with impunity and in great numbers, I just don't actually believe that Tyrion is in any danger.  He's clearly one of the authors favorites.  

 

So instead of being worried about Tyrion, I'm worried about who else the story will take out other than Tyrion because of this trial.  I can't bring myself to believe, even for a second, that the story is about to kill Tyrion.  But it seems awfully likely that the story is about to off someone, other than Joffrey which was probably greeted with a rousing cheer by even the actor playing Joffrey.  

 

Mostly what I'm concerned about is who else is going to die because of this, since Tyrion seems to dwell in the permanently safe zone.  I hope it isn't Brienne.  I really hope it isn't Sansa.  It really isn't that I particularly like Sansa, it's just that all of the Stark kids have been put through pure hell and Sansa in particular has gotten heaping portions of Hades. 

Edited May 14, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Pallas]

I agree with shimpy about Peter Dinklage during Tyrion's rant.  Especially in an episode that gave us Charles Dance doing so much more with one word, twice. (Almost the same word.)  Actors often say that anger is one of the easiest emotions to portray, and Dinklage didn't even make it look easy.  He was "indicating," like an overbearng score.  

 

It continues to be a wonderful portrayal overall; most recently I thought he was great in both prison scenes, and in the scene where he renounced Shae.  But here, I think we were meant to feel that Tyrion was suffering an epiphany, a moment that put his whole life in a new perspective.  He is being changed from within, irrevocably. Everything he was is briefly at war with everything he is becoming -- right then -- and when he emerges, he is the man who declares, "I demand a trial by combat."  He's just undergone his own.  

 

But I really really do not understand what Tyrion ever thought he could possibly gain by hanging in there and continuing to do this deadly dance for power in KL.  What's "victory" for him?  Staying alive?!?!

 

I think before, "the deadly dance" was the point.  Tyrion just wanted in: to be admitted to the gavotte, to be acknowledged as a fellow dancer, to be given his moment on the floor.  A man among men, but still playing a game.  He took on other men's projects as his own.  Be a Lannister.  Act as Acting Hand.  Save King's Landing.  Sometimes spoofing them, sometimes in dead earnest.  Usually at an ironic remove.  

 

He took no time determining that the ostensible point of the trail -- establish the truth -- was bullshit.  He knew his job was to be mortified and then, just perhaps, to save his hide.  But now, I think, he has vaulted straight past that goal.  He finally has a purpose all his own.  Not only to live, but live to defeat his father.  For Tyrion, it's finally become simple: it's him or me.  All my life, he could afford to neglect me.  I can't do the same.  

 

"Kingslayer," someone called out to Tyrion when he entered the court.  During the recess, Jaime reminded Tywin that he killed Aerys after Aerys asked him to kill Tywin.  "Kings are dropping like flies," Tyrion once said, and we were reminded.  So are Hands of the King.  I just don't know how or if he expects to defeat Tywin without killing him.

[MrMicrophone]

shimp,

Without Tyrion, the whole story would be poorer.

OTOH, Jaime would have one HELL of a story, then, wouldn't he?

Your blasted father and your lover/sister just killed your favorite brother!

 

... Also, I fear there is much more of a shitstorm that the author could pull

for Tyrion. Remember Tyrion's own words - -that if he hadn't been a Lannister

he would have been abandoned to die.

[stillshimpy]

Oh good, I'm glad it wasn't just me.  Peter Dinklage gave it the old college try, but I use that phrase intentionally, because it was that sort of overblown stuff that is usually spotted on the collegiate stage.  He's often so incredibly good, but something felt off there.  It felt very manufactured vs. real.  Again, just to me and for anyone that really enjoyed it?  Cool! Then the scene worked better for you than for me and I'm glad. 

 

Realistically Tyrion sat there and listened to the current victor's version of history.  Nothing other than much of Shae's testimony was an outright lie, it was just a good example of how the truth can be twisted and that perspective shapes truth.  Varys is a great indicator of that.  

 

So I think Tyrion is meant to have just reached that crucial moment of "Oh FUCK THIS, I am done with your Dinner Theater Productions!  You can kiss my tiny butt.  I'm done playing by this script."  Unfortunately the scene also relied on feeling Tyrion's heartbreak when it came to Shae.  Now whereas I'm clearly not being overly kind to Peter Dinklage's Reading the Room the Riot Act skills, his simple "Shae, don't do this" (paraphrase) had all the verisimilitude that the big, roaring speech lacked, I thought.  

 

The problem is that the moment was a tiny bit too easy to see coming.   When Tyrion ripped Shae to tiny emotional shreds when he sent her away, it was a good scene, but the story stumbled there in the "off-screen departure?  Bronn assuring Tyrion that she sailed away? Uh....I don't think so."  it was too easy to guess that Shae had been roped in by a Lannister force.  Plus, due to Shae's entire characterization, it was impossible to believe she'd just take that with only a smack to Bronn.  

 

By the way, the fact that she's still alive and kicking is one of the things that points to the possibility that Tywin was involved in the murder of Joffrey.   Why was Shae kept alive at all rather than her pretty head delivered to Tyrion?  Anyway, it just wasn't the "Oh shit, really?" moment for me that I think the scene intended when Shae came in.  Plus, there's a slight problem with the whole Shae-as-the-love-of-Tyrion's-Life story element.  I feel like they dragged out the entire thing for too damned long.  "You're in terrible danger!" was difficult to buy for almost two full seasons, because Shae really isn't a subtle, or clandestine sort.  She's also been too loud, screechy, and too unpleasant in those seasons for me to really hope that those crazy kids could stay together.  Instead it was a case of "Take the bag of diamonds and boogey, Shae,  This isn't going anywhere good."  

 

I guess it was that the story tried to sell that Shae was sort of naive on that point and I was never really buying it.  

 

If I'm being honest the other thing about the whole "Tyrion then snaps like a wet carrot" is that watching nearly every great moment that Tyrion had, turned against him was disheartening, rather than enraging for me.  

 

I agree Pallas, Charles Dance is the actor who turned in the award winning performance for this episode, I thought and runner-up to him was actually the actor who plays Jaime, to my mind.  The "Holy shit, what just happened?" look on Jaime's face when Tywin immediately agreed to spare Tyrion's life in exchange for Jaime leaving the Kingsguard was great and NOT easy to pull off.  He wasn't just astounded, he was immediately on his guard, scenting danger, but also grateful.  Beat the stuffing out of the over-emphasis of the Outrage Smackdown from the Stand, I thought. 

Edited May 14, 2014 by stillshimpy

[abelard]

I think before, "the deadly dance" was the point.  Tyrion just wanted in: to be admitted to the gavotte, to be acknowledged as a fellow dancer, to be given his moment on the floor.  A man among men, but still playing a game.  He took on other men's projects as his own.  Be a Lannister.  Act as Acting Hand.  Save King's Landing.  Sometimes spoofing them, sometimes in dead earnest.  Usually at an ironic remove. 

He took no time determining that the ostensible point of the trail -- establish the truth -- was bullshit.  He knew his job was to be mortified and then, just perhaps, to save his hide.  But now, I think, he has vaulted straight past that goal.  He finally has a purpose all his own.  Not only to live, but live to defeat his father.  For Tyrion, it's finally become simple: it's him or me.

 

Okay, I'll buy this.  I guess then Tyrion is not as smart as I thought he was, as he's just been trying to heal something within himself by gaining "acceptance," in a loose definition of that word, rather than trying to actually live a good life.  (I guess before he was playing the game for real, he was living the Good Life in a way, the whoring and drinking.)  And now he's playing to win against one man only, his father.  It makes perfect dramatic sense, but it just doesn't make any sense sense.  I guess there is truth in the fact that people don't always do what's best for themselves, but get caught up in a whole bunch of psychological compensation/family drama pigs**t.

[Pallas]

Great post, shimpy.  I feel with you the kind of double manipulation we were undergoing during the trial, first with the writing and then with the acting.  Poor Tyrion, beset on all sides!  is a heaping helping of pigeon-pie a little easier to swallow when Tyrion is free to serve up attitude and bad behavior, to help us wash it down.

 

It's true; of course it's true.  But we know that.  We are not in any danger of not feeling that poor Tyrion is being treated rather shabbily. And after all he's done!  The only danger is that we start to feel harangued, as if A Show were Mildred Pierce, and we -- right along with the good citizens of King's Landing -- the ungrateful children.  So if Tyrion is going to be hamstrung on the defendant's stand while all this abuse is coming down, at least allow us a little irony on his behalf.  

 

Now whereas I'm clearly not being overly kind to Peter Dinklage's Reading the Room the Riot Act skills, his simple "Shae, don't do this" (paraphrase) had all the verisimilitude that the big, roaring speech lacked, I thought. 

 

It was lovely, heart-breaking.  It gave the lie to everything she'd said, in its simple intimacy.

 

I wonder if part of the problem with The Big Moment was that it wasn't Dinklage interacting with other actors, as he does so well; it was Dinklage doing whole sets of close-up with the camera.  It was taped from multiple angles -- that is, the actor as well as the cameras assumed multiple angles -- so shot in choppy blocks.  Not delivered as a monologue, not at all allowed to breathe.  

 

The "Holy shit, what just happened?" look on Jaime's face when Tywin immediately agreed to spare Tyrion's life in exchange for Jaime leaving the Kingsguard was great and NOT easy to pull off.  He wasn't just astounded, he was immediately on his guard, scenting danger, but also grateful.

 

Yes again: we saw the whole history of Tywin/Jaime in that moment.  Just the sort of games Tywin even now admits he likes to play with his dear kin.  ("It's not a trick question," he assures Tommen in the Sept, when Tommen isn't even quite sure that's what he's worried about -- and Cersei's face says, Oh, that's exactly what you should be  worried about, kiddo...)  How many times had Jaime thought he finally got the answer right, only to hear Tywin immediately rap out how much more right he was than Jaime, than the likes of Jaime could ever hope to be.

 

And the tiny moment between the brothers, when Jaime asks, in all sincerity, "Do you trust me?"  and Tyrion pauses before nodding, only.  Because if he actually replied in words, he wouldn't be able to keep from wounding Jaime by saying, But not as much as I mistrust our father. 

[gingerella]

Mod note: Changed it, but am up for more suggestions. I've had wine, it might not be funny to other people as it is to me. :p 

I dunno, I rather like:

 

Tyrion Lannister: God of tits and wine

OR

Tyrion Lannister: Pimpin' imp!

OR

Tyrion Lannister: Imp pimp

[RadiantAerynSun]

I agree on Dinklage's delivery being a bit too hammy. I think maybe he was going for angry, "MONSTER" looking facial expressions as he was trying to exaggerate himself into the "monster" they seemed to want him to be, that he'd tried to prove for so long he wasn't, but now "wished" he was, as Joffrey DESERVED killing, and the city DIDN'T deserve saving.

 

I think what the trial did deliver is something GOT is good at: turning events you had cheered for on their heads. Like when we cheered for Dany "rescuing" the lamb women only for it to end in her husband/child's death; like when we cheered for Theon to get his comeuppence only to say OK OK enough already with the torture!! like when we cheered for Robb and Talisa's "true love" in the face of arranged marriage (whoops, turns out that really was a bad idea). Every moment we cheered for Tyrion, slapping Joffrey, "threatening" him, etc., was used against him... which is what would REALLY happen if someone did any of those things, it's just not usually what happens in fiction.

 

As far as Shae, it didn't even occur to me that she might be called to testify, because in my mind she was gone. (I thought our trope inversion was that she got away just fine). But, wasn't that surprised when it came down to it.  I had feared she would be skewered at the wedding, that was about it, didn't expect that they'd keep her squirreled away somewhere and force her to testify. I agree it does make you wonder if Tywin was aware of Joffrey's assassination ahead of time.

[WhiteStumbler]

What's "victory" for him?  Staying alive?!?!  

 

I've got brains and gold, my daddy's "Hand"

Yet the folks still call me Half-A-Man

The Wall was cold, Shae was warm

I've been called The Imp since I was born

 

And now Cersei, Illyn Payne

Want to take my head today

I don't think I understand

the Joffrey murder necklace plan

 

Wildfire burn as dour Stannis learn

He's stayin' alive, stayin' alive

I once saved the city, now think it's a pity

You still alive, still alive

 

Game, of, Thrones, I'm, stayin' alive, stayin' alive

How, long, can, I, stay aliiiiiiive?

 

ETA: Please feel free to send eTomatoes my way. Sometimes I can't help myself.

Edited May 15, 2014 by WhiteStumbler

[abelard]

I don't think I understand

the Joffrey murder necklace plan

 

This rhyme is pure genius, White Stumbler.  100 gold dragons for you!!!!!!!  

[WhiteStumbler]

Sooooo sad at the (apparent) end of the Bronn and a Half Man Show. I think Tyrion's weary acceptance of Bronn's decision makes sense. After all, Bronn has said "I'm a sell-sword. I sell my sword, I don't lend it out."

[Pallas]

Perhaps it will be good for Tyrion, like Jaime,  to really feel the lesson of what it means to buy people, and what exactly it is that can be bought.  And better he learn it from Bronn than from Locke.  Or Dany.

[WhiteStumbler]

...And better he learn it from Bronn than from Locke.

True, so true.

 

I also spotted Locke in another movie. He is one of the crew in "The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou".

[stillshimpy]

Perhaps it will be good for Tyrion, like Jaime,  to really feel the lesson of what it means to buy people, and what exactly it is that can be bought.  And better he learn it from Bronn than from Locke.  Or Dany.

 

Oh, I think it was far sadder that Tyrion believes Shae never loved him.  I think he knows Bronn does actually like him and coniders him a friend, it's just whoever stands up to The Mountain is very, very likely to die and Bronn didn't want to die for Tyrion.  Tyrion seemed to get that.  

 

At least Tyrion knows that Pod was truly just his loyal squire.  Although, I sort of hated to hear Tyrion attempt to leverage Winterfell in anyway.