S05.E02: The Ship

[John Potts]

Quote

Sisko must keep the Dominion from retaking a Jem'Hadar fighter which has crashed.

I guess this is the first of the (several) "War is Hell" episodes that DS9 did (The Siege of AR558, Nor the Battle the Strong, Dogs of War) and we even get to know one of the nameless redshirts (well, goldshirts in this case) before he dies. Not quite sure I believe that the crew would start snapping at each other quite that quickly (Worf grew up with humans - he should know most Earthlings act around the dying and he's been in tighter situations before: Dax should be much calmer under fire, given she's supposedly 300 years old). Funny to see a Vorta that ISN'T played by Jeffrey Combs (even though I think we see 5 Vorta characters over the course of the series), but I thought Kaitlin Hopkins did a reasonable job of capturing that simultaneously helpful seeming and duplicitous nature of the Vorta (they remind me of the Zoons' role of Tribal Liar from Discworld).

Overall though, I did like that Sisko reflects that in the end he would have to say the mission was worth it (Darn right Starfleet should be "Very pleased!" with them) - even though he can't forget the lives it cost (an idea that reaches its apotheosis with In the Pale Moonlight).

[readster]

Also since this was the milestone 100th episode it really packed punches left and right. Even at the end when the Changling died and all the Jem'hadar committed suicided as result. Something I think that really stapled the Dominion's faults was they never felt they could trust others. Why the Changlings created the Dominion in the first place because others feared them and they got it in their heads: "Solids can't be trusted, so let's rule them instead." When as it was pointed out, they could have trusted each other and moved on. I still do wonder how the Changling did die in the end. Not sure if it was because of holding a form so long as we know that was lethal, even the other Founders basically said the Great Link was their way of staying away from that limit. Since they were in liquid form majority of the time. As for the Vorta, as we know even when they were killed, they were cloning them right afterwards or had them in status. So, even with this Vorta most likely was going to be killed for failing. The Changlings would have been: "Well, activate the new clone." The main female Changling was actually scared when Garek killed Wayune's last clone. I think despite everything the Changlings needed the Vorta to keep the Jem'hadar under control outside using Kacasile White to keep them addicted. Sure, they might kill them now and again or the Vorta would commit suicide, but if they didn't have their clone facilities they didn't have their Yes Men to keep things in check.

  Something too by the time the series ended, the Dominion was in pretty bad shape from the Cardassians to the Founders. But as they say, War is Hell. 

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, readster said:

Something I think that really stapled the Dominion's faults was they never felt they could trust others. Why the Changelings created the Dominion in the first place because others feared them and they got it in their heads: "Solids can't be trusted, so let's rule them instead."

I don't think that's quite right.  The reason that the Changelings were so xenophobic in the first place wasn't that the solids feared them.  It was because the solids had spent decades, if not centuries, hunting, persecuting and enslaving the Changelings, so when the Changelings finally overthrew the solids, they decided to become the hunters and the persecutors themselves because to them, it was a matter of ensuing the survival of their own race by making sure that no other race could ever attempt to enslave or destroy them again.  In other words, from the Changeling point of view, the Dominion War was a necessary pre-emptive measure, not an unprovoked, unjustified aggression merely for the sake of power.

[readster]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

I don't think that's quite right.  The reason that the Changelings were so xenophobic in the first place wasn't that the solids feared them.  It was because the solids had spent decades, if not centuries, hunting, persecuting and enslaving the Changelings, so when the Changelings finally overthrew the solids, they decided to become the hunters and the persecutors themselves because to them, it was a matter of ensuing the survival of their own race by making sure that no other race could ever attempt to enslave or destroy them again.  In other words, from the Changeling point of view, the Dominion War was a necessary pre-emptive measure, not an unprovoked, unjustified aggression merely for the sake of power.

But it grew from there into feeling that all Solids were not to be trusted that they would do the same given the chance. So, while the original reasons made sense. Just like any other race or government that finally gets to where they feel safe and secure, they turn it into oppression and the basic: "The Solids are nothing like us." 

[John Potts]

3 hours ago, readster said:

As for the Vorta, as we know even when they were killed, they were cloning them right afterwards or had them in status. So, even with this Vorta most likely was going to be killed for failing.

Well, that was only retrospectively true - the Vorta only became clones because TPTB liked Jeffrey Combs' portrayal so much they wanted to bring him back (link). Up until that point, the Vorta were as disposable as the Jem'Hadar.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, readster said:

But it grew from there into feeling that all Solids were not to be trusted that they would do the same given the chance. So, while the original reasons made sense. Just like any other race or government that finally gets to where they feel safe and secure, they turn it into oppression and the basic: "The Solids are nothing like us." 

That's what I said.  Their own paranoia and xenophobia were what drove them to pre-emptively attack races from the other side of the galaxy who had never even heard of them before, much less had any real desire to subjugate them or exterminate them.  That's what paranoia does to people. It makes them see everyone as the enemy -- or at least as an enemy.  We see echoes of that in our own time with regard to certain races and belief systems.

[iMonrey]

Did anyone else think Muniz had a huge crush on O'Brien? The way he looked at him so adoringly made me think he was in love with him.

[starri]

In his first appearance, "Starship Down," he has a buddy (male) named Crewman Stevens, and they REALLY come off as a couple.