Criminal Minds Analysis: Profile The Show

[normasm]

I'd like for the team to happen upon the info that Reid has been dating, and not just one girl, going on dates with girls. Expanding his social horizons. Actually using the advice Elle gave him years ago that if he wanted a date he had to ask someone. It doesn't have to be front and center, at least not yet. Later in the year, perhaps we could understand he's really liking this one girl, and even later, we find he's in love. I want, if this is the last year of CM, and I think it probably is, that Reid will find some happiness that he went out and found for himself.

[idiotwaltz]

Can I add Birthright to my list of underrated/overlooked/always-forget-that-I-like-it-more-than-expected episodes?! I rambled in the JJ thread about how much I actually liked her in that one, and I just think it's a really engaging, atmospheric and smoothly paced episode. 

 

And, Willowy, you're so right about Limelight being more awesome than I usually give it credit for! 

 

I may have to move S3 ahead of S2 in my season rankings, though it's still definitely behind my beloved S4 and S1. 

 

I just rewatched Birthright and one of my favourite things about that episode are the strong, badass female characters. Mary Wilkinson, Karen Foley, and even the daughter-in-law who ended up shooting the Serial Killer Son. Amazing performances all round. Definitely underrated. It seems like Season 3 doesn't get enough love! 

 

Overrated episodes .... *small voice* 100. Mosely Lane. (It was well-shot, but the crime made so little sense ...) The whole Doyle arc, basically, including Lauren.  

[ForeverAlone]

If we are talking TRUE wish list, I would love for the show to incorporate Jeff Davis's original.conception of Reid into his current character, i.e. that Reid is bisexual. Bringing that particular aspect of the character to light would do nothing to invalidate everything we have seen of Reid up to now. And it would be an interesting avenue to explore for Reid, because frankly there just aren't enough beautiful, geeky, genius bisexual boys represented on TV. :) 

[Danielg342]

If we are talking TRUE wish list, I would love for the show to incorporate Jeff Davis's original.conception of Reid into his current character, i.e. that Reid is bisexual. Bringing that particular aspect of the character to light would do nothing to invalidate everything we have seen of Reid up to now. And it would be an interesting avenue to explore for Reid, because frankly there just aren't enough beautiful, geeky, genius bisexual boys represented on TV. :)

I would not be in favour of that idea. Not that I would have a problem with a bisexual male character on TV- I just think it would make Reid more known for being bisexual than for being smart, given the dearth of bisexual male characters on TV.

I might concede that it would be a believable trait for Reid, though, given that he'd probably know a lot about Alfred Kinsey and his studies, but I'd stress that if the writers did go to the bisexual well, they handle it with care and not make it his most salient trait. This is because when it comes to Reid the writers seem to always think they have to “explain” his special-ness- be it with Asperger's or some other trait- without realizing the reason is staring right at them in the face: his brain.

[ForeverAlone]

The writers have pretty much just written Reid's main quality as his intelligence for the past nine years, so I don't think anyone would forget that he is smart if he dated men. They wouldn't have to make some big deal about it all. In fact, it would be far more interesting if it was just one of those things. Though considering how some of the team seemed incredulous that he was able to get a girlfriend, I can only imagine their reaction if he had a boyfriend. I'm looking at you JJ and your seeming shock that he was actually able to acquire a girlfriend.

[zannej]

Was "Cold Comfort" the one where the guy was kidnapping women and trying to make them look like his nanny that had died while taking care of him? That was a good one. Very creepy, but good.

 

"Scared to Death" was another good one. That elevator scene really hit the mark-- especially since I once actually got stuck in a small elevator because my dipshit fatass brother decided to jump up and down and made it get stuck. We were in there I think about 45 minutes. Only it wasn't holding still. It was bobbing up and down ever so slightly while stuck between the first and second floor.

 

"Mosley Lane" was emotionally powerful and well-filmed but I agree that the story didn't make sense.

 

For "100", I wish that they had only recently found out about Foyett needing medications (maybe some sort of problem finding his medical records or getting warrants to get them bc the were not on computer record?). And Reid could have figured out which medicines could be substituted. I would have had an explanation on how he found Sam and he could have worn a disguise or found some other way to trick Haley in to meeting up with him somehow... It didn't make sense that she saw his face and did not recognize him. Surely she would have been shown pictures. And possibly heard recordings of his voice so she would recognize it.

[ForeverAlone]

Yes, that is "Cold Comfort." I especially like the direction and the creepy atmosphere of the episode. It was directed by Anna Foerster, and before Matthew became the go to director for creepy atmospheric episodes, Anna was the one on tap. She directed some of my favorite episodes, or at least episodes that really grabbed me with the visuals.. Besides Cold Comfort, she directed The Uncanny Valley, Reflections of Desire (not one of my favorite episodes, but the visuals were quite magnificent), With Friends Like These, From Childhood's Hour (again not one of my favorites, and it was just a meat and potatoes episode).

 

Yeah, 100 had some plot holes (but many of the episodes do), particularly Foyet's identity. Not only do you think Haley would have been shown his picture, he was undoubtedly in all the news. But the writers seemed bound and determined to kill Haley for maximum shock value and emotional impact, and I guess they couldn't come up with a more plausible way to do it.

[zannej]

I just don't trust the writers to make Reid bisexual without being very hamfisted with it. I think they would use it to change Reid and his sexuality would define him. I don't trust this batch of writers with it.

The writers just can't seem to fathom that Reid would be attractive to women-- which is odd, because they acknowledge that Matthew has a lot of fans that find him attractive.

They tend to suck at writing any romantic relationships on the show, so I think they would do a terrible job of writing Reid with a boyfriend.

 

Although, I admit I think it would really fuck with the team's minds if it turned out that Reid was bisexual and was involved in threesomes with woman AND a man. I think a lot of fans would scream bloody murder over that one though.

[zannej]

I think one of my favorite lines from "Cold Comfort" was when the necrophiliac creep said something about cracking open a cold one. It really made me laugh even though it was supposed to be insensitive and gross.

[ForeverAlone]

Now I do agree that the current batch of writers is utterly incapable of writing Reid in the sensitive story of him with a boyfriend. This was more of a wish to be realized in the hands of capable writers who can write Reid well and also write personal stories with believability and subtlety. This current batch of writers would be more likely to turn Reid into yet more comic relief fodder. I mean, they definitely approached that with some of the reactions about Maeve. 

 

I can only think that the show wants us to view Reid as looking different than Matthew. I mean, if we assumed Matthew's real body is supposed to be Reid's, there is no way in hell he would have been so out of shape for his physical fitness test. But I think we are supposed to think he is weak and skinny, and I assume we are supposed to think he is ugly, because obviously Matthew's real looks are beautiful. In real life, women absolutely swoon over Matthew, and fangirls worship at the altar of Reid. I mean, people pretty much overlook Reid's attractiveness on the show while focusing on Morgan's time and time again. But I suppose that is reflective of how CBS always pushes Shemar to be the show's sex symbol and not Matthew as well. 

Edited May 20, 2014 by ForeverAlone

[zannej]

I think there are quite a few fanfics where it turns out Reid had some sort of relationship with his friend Ethan and/or that they were attracted to one another. I admit there was more chemistry between them than there is between Hotch & Beth.

 

I wonder if Mathew's strange personality as well as the "nerd" character he plays makes the writers just think of him as unattractive. They may just think that male nerds in general are not attractive and they just can't see Matthew or Reid as appealing. I still remember that remark that Garcia made about how she had no attraction to Reid (I can't remember the exact wording) and Reid did seem to take slight umbrage at it, but didn't take it too personally. I think his response was "You're welcome" or something. She did once say "eww" when Morgan promised her a night of passionate lovemaking-- "with REID!". Poor Reid just sat there and didn't say anything.

 

I do miss when he would lean over Garcia's shoulder as she looked things up.

 

Have I mentioned that I want Reid to get his own office? Not that I don't want him interacting with the members out in the bullpen, I just think he deserves it. It would be a sign that they recognize that he's actually growing and making progress in his career somewhat. 

[ForeverAlone]

Oh yes, I remember that Penelope comment all too well. She gets all pissy when Kevin shows up to the sci fi convention with Gina. And when Reid pointed out that she was at the convention with him, she just had to say that she wasn't there with anyone she could find sexually attractive. Yeah, Reid didn't seem too happy about her comment, and he shouldn't have been. His "you're welcome" seemed to more dumbfounded as to just exactly how should he respond to such an insult. That really irked me when I watched that episode. That is a prime example of the show inviting us to view Reid as unattractive. Usually his attractiveness is more of a gentle joke, like prostitutes who try and make him uncomfortable. Even Morgan's "pretty boy" nickname could be more of a joke depending on how you want to view it. 

Edited May 20, 2014 by ForeverAlone

[Danielg342]

The writers have pretty much just written Reid's main quality as his intelligence for the past nine years, so I don't think anyone would forget that he is smart if he dated men.

Us fans, yeah I'd agree- but that's because we've seen the character throughout the years and know all of his traits, not just one. The general public? Reid, I think, is a relative unknown to the public, but put a trait like bisexuality on him and all of a sudden you're going to get all kinds of media attention hyping how "open-minded" and "brave" the writers of CM are, and suddenly all the general public knows about Reid is that he's bisexual. Just about every gay character- from Will and Jack on "Will & Grace", to Ellen to "Modern Family"- could never shake the "gay" tag off the label for their characters, and I wouldn't want that to happen to Reid.

Also, as zannej said, I wouldn't trust these writers not to make it hamfisted and awkward. I think back to "Broken" last year, where the writers seemed to treat "anti-homophobia" as some kind of "hip" thing to latch on to, and I would be afraid the writers would do that to Reid. It'd be all his character would do for a couple of episodes, essentially turning it into a gimmick- and Reid and the LGBT community as a whole deserves much more.

[mstaken]

I want Reid to have the kind of friends and/or significant other who's genuinely *psyched* to go to stuff like ComicCon with him rather than mocking him for it :) 

[mstaken]

. It seems like Season 3 doesn't get enough love!

 

Wait, were you around when I forced----er, gently encouraged---everyone to rank all nine seasons from favorite to least favorite, no ties allowed? You know I need to know your rankings, right?! 

 

ETA: I'm another lover of Cold Comfort...of nearly all S4 episodes unless otherwise stated, in fact! 

Edited May 20, 2014 by mstaken

[idiotwaltz]

Wait, were you around when I forced----er, gently encouraged---everyone to rank all nine seasons from favorite to least favorite, no ties allowed? You know I need to know your rankings, right?! 

 

ETA: I'm another lover of Cold Comfort...of nearly all S4 episodes unless otherwise stated, in fact! 

 

Um ... probably not? I was a sporadic lurker at TWOP but didn't post much. 

 

Here are my rankings, from most to least favourite:

 

1. Season 4 

2. Season 1

3. Season 3

4. Season 2

5. Season 5

6. Season 7

7. Season 6

8. Season 8

9. Season 9

 

If ties were allowed, Seasons 1 and 4 would be tied. In terms of profiling and suspense, Season 1 wins hands down, but it doesn't have Emily. As I have stated earlier, I am an incredible shallow person, PLUS I ship Prentiss/Rossi, so Season 4 wins by a very narrow margin. Like you, there are only a few S4 episodes I never rewatch (off the top of my head: Brothers in Arms, Roadkill). The fallacy here is that I don't actually own S1 on DVD and I don't live in North America anymore, where there are endless reruns, so I don't actually rewatch S1 at all. But have seen it in its entirety several times and aside from What Fresh Hell and maaaaaaybe Somebody's Watching, all of the other episodes are rewatchable to me. 

 

Season 5 may have AMAZING Emily hair, but even the shallow can't make up for episodes like The Fight and The Eyes Have It. Outfoxed annoyed me to no end since it basically retconned The Fox, which was one of the first episodes of CM I ever watched and grabbed me right away. 

 

I don't recall a single episode or title from Seasons 8 or 9, but 9 is the bottom of the barrel to me thanks to the awfulness that is 200. Not even PB's guest appearance could override the lunacy that is Ninja!JJ Hunts Bin Laden. 

 

Re Cold Comfort - I like it, but I don't love it. Whenever I have the DVD menu on, I always select Zoe's Reprise first, Bloodline second, Cold Comfort third, and Pleasure is My Business fourth. I like Pleasure is My Business as a case and I find the UNSUB to be sympathetic, but I like my serial killers gory and gross, so Cold Comfort almost always wins out.

 

Lucky might be my all-time favourite episode of the series, objectively speaking, but Demonology might be my most-watched episode out of sheer shippiness. 

[mstaken]

I love your rankings! Mine are very similar, with just a couple of minor differences that I'll ramble about below :)

 

 

The fallacy here is that I don't actually own S1 on DVD and I don't live in North America anymore, where there are endless reruns, so I don't actually rewatch S1 at all.

 

*panics on your behalf* You must remedy this ASAP!

 

 

If ties were allowed, Seasons 1 and 4 would be tied.

 

I feel the exact same way, and they're forever swapping places at the very top of my list depending on my particular mood. S1 has such rich profiling and such a special energy to me. As we've discussed here and elsewhere, the characters and their relationships with one another feel more defined and distinct to me, and I love that the team had different professional niches rather than all being interchangeably awesome at pretty much every single thing. Plus, I grew to absolutely adore Elle (and the Elle/Reid friendship).

 

 

But have seen it in its entirety several times and aside from What Fresh Hell and maaaaaaybe Somebody's Watching

 

Hee---those are among the only skip-worthy ones for me as well!

 

S4, of course, is utterly awesome as well. It has Rossi and Prentiss, who I also love. (And while it's never really occurred to me to view them as a potential couple, somehow that makes an odd sort of sense to me! Thanks to you, I'll be watching for that now!!!) And S4 just happens to have so many of the series' best cases IMO and very, very few clunkers IMO. (Like you, I skip Brothers in Arms and almost nothing else.) Add in the fact that it may have more awesome Reid moments than any other and, yeah, suffice it to say I'm a huge fan. It also features my favorite MGG hair, which we all know is vitally important to determining the quality of a season ;)

 

 

Season 5 may have AMAZING Emily hair, but even the shallow can't make up for episodes like The Fight and The Eyes Have It. Outfoxed annoyed me to no end since it basically retconned The Fox, which was one of the first episodes of CM I ever watched and grabbed me right away.

 

The more I rewatch, the less I like S5 and the more I like S7. S7 just happens to have a lot of cases that I really find engaging and even thought-provoking. And while I know most non-me fans hate Beth, I can't help it---I find it such a relief to see Hotch smiling again after being so (understandably) dour since the beginning of S3. S5 just doesn't have many cases that I love or even really like (aside from Uncanny Valley, of course!), I find the Foyett arc and its fallout kind of melodramatic and depressing,  and the dynamic with Morgan 'in charge' feels off to me. Oh, and I really like Reid's S7 hair and happen to hate his S5 hair, so there's THAT.

 

I liked Seaver more than most---or at least didn't *dislike* her nearly as much as most---but S6 was just utterly unmemorable, lacking in energy and interest for me. But I still think I like it a tiny bit better than S8...at least today :)

 

So my order for now:

S1
S4 (as noted above, these two can and do trade places constantly!)
S3
S2 (I hate Reid's 'addiction' arc, and while this season has a few absolute gems, I think S3 may be more consistently rewatchable for me)
S7
S5
S9
S6
S8

Edited May 20, 2014 by mstaken

[idiotwaltz]

 

*panics on your behalf* You must remedy this ASAP!

 

I wish! I live in a country where the prices of English-language DVDs are jacked up immensely to milk as much money off rich expats as possible, so I'll have to wait for a summer or Christmas sale :( One of my biggest regrets is that my Season 3 DVDs have no subtitles and are missing some extras, but I got them for super cheap. They're legal though, I swear! 

 

 

S4, of course, is utterly awesome as well. It has Rossi and Prentiss, who I also love. (And while it's never really occurred to me to view them as a potential couple, somehow that makes an odd sort of sense to me! Thanks to you, I'll be watching for that now!!!) And S4 just happens to have so many of the series' best cases IMO and very, very few clunkers IMO. (Like you, I skip Brothers in Arms and almost nothing else.) Add in the fact that it may have more awesome Reid moments than any other and, yeah, suffice it to say I'm a huge fan. It also features my favorite MGG hair, which we all know is vitally important to determining the quality of a season ;)

 

Hair is extremely important. Also, outfits. That's another reason why I am of the view that the show started slipping downhill in S5, once they gave JJ that ugly shirt with the fish on them or something, and let's not talk about Emily's weird top with the elbow patches in Self-Fulfilling Prophecy. 

 

I didn't used to ship Prentiss/Rossi, until I found the smutty fanfics. Then I became ALL ABOUT THAT SHIP. Do a rewatch of the following: Demonology, Damaged ("Why do you care?" "Because you do."), the Angel Maker, the briefing scene in Lucky where Rossi gives her this appraising look ("Rossi's the one who debunked them." "Oh yeah."), Amplification ("Don't Emily me"), True Night ("Life is a hell of a thing to happen to a person.") ... forget it, just rewatch the whole goddamn show with Rossi/Prentiss goggles. It's a trip. 

 

 

S1 has such rich profiling and such a special energy to me. As we've discussed here and elsewhere, the characters and their relationships with one another feel more defined and distinct to me, and I love that the team had different professional niches rather than all being interchangeably awesome at pretty much every single thing. Plus, I grew to absolutely adore Elle (and the Elle/Reid friendship).

 

Yes, I absolutely adored Elle and was wary of Prentiss at first when I found out Elle had been replaced. Derailed is possibly one of my favouritest episode ever, with the Elle/Reid scene at the end and the scene where they're all squashed together in a car, like a family going on a morbid road trip. I also liked Morgan/Elle on vacation in the season finale. The cases themselves has an eerier quality to them and are much more low-key and plausible (In Plain Sight seems like something that could totally happen irl and probably has). S1 and S2 are almost a completely different show from the later seasons. I recently rewatched the early episodes of S2 such as The Last Word, North Mammon, The Perfect Storm, and Empty Planet and was surprised by how well they hold up after all these years. 

 

Whereas I cannot sit through a second viewing of any episodes from S8 or S9. 

 

 

S7 just happens to have a lot of cases that I really find engaging and even thought-provoking. And while I know most non-me fans hate Beth, I can't help it---I find it such a relief to see Hotch smiling again after being so (understandably) dour since the beginning of S3. S5 just doesn't have many cases that I love or even really like (aside from Uncanny Valley, of course!), I find the Foyett arc and its fallout kind of melodramatic and depressing,  and the dynamic with Morgan 'in charge' feels off to me. Oh, and I really like Reid's S7 hair and happen to hate his S5 hair, so there's THAT.

 

 

Ugh, I hated his Season 5 hair, it gave me early 90's flashbacks. Pretty sure it was the same hair the boy had in My Girl 2. 

 

Season 5 doesn't have any episodes that stand out, case-wise. I like Haunted and A Thousand Words, but the rest are meh. As for Season 7, my personal favourites are Unknown Subject, Foundation, Profiling 101 and True Genius. I don't particularly like It Takes a Village, but I watch it often for the resurrection of Emily Prentiss and her ugly yellow blouse thing. Worst episodes: A Family Affair, Dorado Falls, that one about with the bodies in the lifeguard towers and somebody gets crushed by a compactor, and Painless.  

Edited May 20, 2014 by idiotwaltz

[mstaken]

Derailed is possibly one of my favouritest episode ever, with the Elle/Reid scene at the end and the scene where they're all squashed together in a car, like a family going on a morbid road trip.

 

Amen, sister friend! [/random Gilmore Girls reference] If I could keep just five or even three CM episodes, Derailed would be on that list. 

 

 

 

As for Season 7, my personal favourites are Unknown Subject, Foundation, Profiling 101 and True Genius

 

I really love these, too! Just to prove that we're not creepily identical, though, I do really like Painless and even A Family Affair as well :) 

 

 

 

Ugh, I hated his Season 5 hair, it gave me early 90's flashbacks. Pretty sure it was the same hair the boy had in My Girl 2.

 

HA! Now I just spit out coffee all over my keyboard! Perhaps I didn't need that fourth cup anyway :) 

 

 

 

.. forget it, just rewatch the whole goddamn show with Rossi/Prentiss goggles. It's a trip.

 

As much as I've complained about CM not defining and developing most of their characters and relationships well enough, one thing I seriously love about there not being tons of rock solid canon is that there's so much open to subjective yet totally valid interpretation. That's especially true when it comes to a character like Emily IMO, who was kind of all over the place ("She's a dorky, somewhat socially awkward intellectual! But, um, also a former semi-goth who still has a 'dark' edge! But also totally the 'partying hard in Vegas' extrovert! But also... ::) I've always thought Emily and Rossi had a natural connection---they're both snarky and, in their own ways, passionate. Now that you've mentioned you see it as potentially 'shippy, I have this feeling I won't be able to NOT see it. Ever. yes, I'm that suggestible sometimes ;) 

 

 

 

True Night ("Life is a hell of a thing to happen to a person.") .

 

This is on the obscenely long list of episodes I'd consider underrated. I get that we see a lot less of the team than usual, but it's just such an effective, poignant hour of TV IMO. And who knew that Frankie Muniz could actually, like, act?! ;) 3rd Life is really engaging and compelling to me as well. 

Edited May 20, 2014 by mstaken

[idiotwaltz]

Solidarity, sister! 

 

 

Just to prove that we're not creepily identical, though, I do really like Painless and even A Family Affair as well :)

 

I have to confess that ... I don't really care for Reid. I don't actively dislike him like I dislike the new and improved JJ, but I am not terribly invested in his storylines. I prefer Reid episodes to Morgan episodes though, save Profiler, Profiled, which I quite enjoy.

 

 

 

That's especially true when it comes to a character like Emily IMO, who was kind of all over the place ("She's a dorky, somewhat socially awkward intellectual! But, um, also a former semi-goth who still has a 'dark' edge! But also totally the 'partying hard in Vegas' extrovert! But also... ::) 

 

You know, despite being a big dumb homo [random 30 Rock reference], I've never gotten a real sense of lesbian vibes off of Emily. Except from the way she sits, maybe. 

 

Oh, another thing I should disclose: I ship Doyle/Emily, but only in an intensely effed-up way. That said, I think the whole super spy arc is stupid and out of nowhere, but I can't complain too much because of my feelings towards that ship. 

 

 

And who knew that Frankie Muniz could actually, like, act?! ;) 3rd Life is really engaging and compelling to me as well.

 

I actually really like 3rd Life, because of the guy who plays Jack Vaughan. The Yellow-Eyed Demon as a loving father! Yep, much as I like Season 2, Season 3 definitely ranks higher. 

[mstaken]

Heh---the 'solidarity, sister' made my day!

 

I actually really like 3rd Life, because of the guy who plays Jack Vaughan. The Yellow-Eyed Demon as a loving father! Yep, much as I like Season 2, Season 3 definitely ranks higher.

 

Hee---a loving but rather terrifying one :) He's a really charismatic, compelling actor, isn't he?!  It won't surprise you in the least to know that Supernatural is another show we have in common. And, yeah, I'm guilty of underrating S3 as a general rule and never quite fell in love with the episodes from that season which seem to be most popular (Lucky, Penelope and, even though it's got everything I usually adore in a CM episode, Seven Seconds), but it's a sneakily great season overall---every time I watch it I find myself loving it more than I expect to. And I love Rossi's more outwardly snarky, amusingly semi-rebellious S3 edge, though I guess it makes sense that that would be toned down a bit as he became more acclimated to the team. 

 

 

I have to confess that ... I don't really care for Reid. I don't actively dislike him like I dislike the new and improved JJ, but I am not terribly invested in his storylines. I prefer Reid episodes to Morgan episodes though, save Profiler, Profiled, which I quite enjoy.

 

Wait, WHAT?! You don't adore Reid? This cyber-friendship is totally over! Just kidding, of course. As Kumbaya-ish as it sounds, that's what I love about this show and this site---there are a lot of different but wholly valid perceptions of these characters, and it's so much fun seeing which aspects of the show do and don't resonate with fellow fans. And, yeah, I generally range from 'eh' to 'ugh!' on Morgan-centric episodes---including Profiler, Profiled, other than that fun "physics magic" scene at the beginning! Shemar Moore is very attractive, but for me he's just not a strong enough actor to 'carry' an episode, or maybe just isn't a great match for the material they tend to give him. I couldn't stand that cloying and ultimately pointless storyline with him and Ellie.

 

Actually, that's a fun new best/worst question: Which are some of your favorite and LEAST favorite Reid-centric episodes, Emily-centric episodes, Rossi-centric episodes, Morgan-centric episodes, etc.???

[Wilowy]

As precious as he is in Somebody's Watching, it's my very least favorite Reidisode. I do adore him so, but the bored-as-shit look on Amber Heard's face all through the episode puts a huge damper on it for me. Plus, lame case.

Favorite Reidisode? Elephant's Memory! *clouds part, angels sing*

[mstaken]

As precious as he is in Somebody's Watching, it's my very least favorite Reidisode. I do adore him so, but the bored-as-shit look on Amber Heard's face all through the episode puts a huge damper on it for me. Plus, lame case.

 

Heh---you know I'm so with you there. And I have an admittedly bizarre relationship with Revelations; objectively, I know it's an excellent episode, but I kind of hate watching it :) 

 

I love Instincts/Memoriam more than most seem to---in fact, it might be my favorite Reidisode (tm Willowy!). I mean, yeah, parts of Memoriam are a mess, but you guys know I love any and every episode that gives us Diana Reid! I also love how Morgan and Reid are there for him, and the scene where JJ asks Reid to be Henry's godfather is an all-time favorite of mine. 

 

I'm very curious about people's favorite and least favorite Rossi-centric episodes, because for some reason I tend to love Rossi more in the episodes where he's NOT the central focus---maybe because all they seem to give him is the cliched That Old Case Which Still Haunts Him stuff we see on every other crime show and the repetitive 'go veterans! Support our troops!' stuff that feels more like a message (albeit one that I agree with!) than an authentic and compelling episode. Of course, Masterpiece---"say hello to your SCUMBAG BROTHER", if that can be considered Rossi-centric, reigns supreme for me :) 

[Wilowy]

As I've said earlier: Fuck Revelations! ;) You're right, mstaken that technically it is a fine showcase for our lad, but it's just too hard for me to watch. 

 

I love, LOVE The Instincts/Memoriam for all the reasons you state too. Also his beauty is crazy evident in those two eps. Nightmares, Diana Reid ( I won't mention the rat bastard - oops I just did)... all to the good. And the sweet look he tosses at JJ as he holds Henry for the first time? *dies*

 

 

Rossi's... hmm. I like his cool vibe in the one where he comes out of the hotel fresh from banging Strauss and runs into Garcia and Reid! :D And you all will probably throw your keyboards at me but I like it when he's cooking at the much reviled 'pasta party'. I guess I have more Rossi scenes that I love instead of entire episodes. And could anyone argue that he positively has the best one-liners of anyone? xD  

[missmycat]

 Do you guys remember Matthew having to audition for the part of Reid several times before he got it. They kept telling him they liked the way he read the part, but they just didn't feel he was right for it. I think he finally got the part  because EM's former writing partner went to bat for him.

 

I personally feel they took one look at Matthew and found him to be way too pretty for what they originally had in mind for the Reid character. I had also heard they'd original wanted the actor who played the foot path killer to play the part.Now that guy definitely fits the bill for what they original had in mind for Reid in regards to his looks.

 

I think they tried to hide Matthew's beauty as best they could in the beginning, but after a while it became almost impossible.Now for some reason I feel the show wants to continue this notion that Reid is somewhat unattractive.Which I personally feel is ridiculous on their part. Once they gave that part to Matthew they should have just dropped that whole concept they original had concerning Reid's looks.

[zannej]

I guess because I know that Matthew wasn't actually being hurt and since I listened to the audio commentary, I really enjoy watching Revelations. They didn't show any of the actual cutting and the gore was kept to a minimum. Yeah, Reid got his foot smacked, but he wasn't being cut open or anything. The CPR scene where Matthew says "he slipped me the tongue" always makes me laugh. Plus I just think Matthew did such a great job of portraying the fear while still managing to stay strong. I've found it somewhat rare for them to show the protagonists on the shows whimpering and crying the way he did. Most of the time they seem to think that in order to be strong heroes, they can't react that way. That they can't show fear. It works for Hotch, because it has been implied that he endured abuse as a child. It doesn't work for Reid and JJ. 

 

I loved "Memoriam" because of Reid's interactions with his mother. I loved her line in "The Instincts" about if anyone tried to keep her son there any longer "I'll scratch your eyes out" and then the "It helps if they think you're crazy; they don't argue" line. LOL.

[Wilowy]

Matthew was being hurt, though not to the extent that Reid was of course. 

 

He really banged his head badly when the chair fell back, and he talked about freezing his ass off for two days straight, his arms going completely numb from being tied up for hours on end, and getting severe leg cramping (which, while not life-threatening, is extremely painful). Not to mention he was actually really scared by Vanderfivehead literally screaming at and threatening him between takes (to get in character). It sounds fucking horrible.

 

Not thinking the criteria should be if he actually bled or not! ;)

[zannej]

I think that part of the problem when Matthew auditioned is that their original vision for Reid was someone who acted more like Data on ST:TNG. They wanted him to show less emotion and basically act like a robot.

 

I do have to agree that once they make a character gay or bisexual that it just overtakes things. Ever since Ellen came out of the closet, she suddenly had expectations from her gay fans that they wanted her to do more "gay" jokes and such. IIRC, it overtook her sitcom and people didn't want to focus on anything else.

 

There's also the problem that bisexuals are sort of the red-headed stepchildren of the gay community. I've seen gay people balk at the idea of bisexuals and say that they were either liars or just confused and that they had to "pick a side". Society has this tendency to want to put people in boxes and label them. They want them to be one thing or another and they don't want to allow middle ground. It's similar with agnostics. Atheists and Theists both sometimes hate on agnostics for not definitively picking a side. 

 

I have to say that the treatment of sexual orientation has toned down quite a bit over the years. I remember when it first became a huge big issue on tv and in comic books. It was awful because it was just so overdone and they made such a big deal out of it.

 

I would love for them to have a minor character on the show that is bisexual but doesn't make a big deal about it. One of the things I liked about Morgan when the show first started was that he (and the writers) never made a big deal out of his race and the race card was very rarely ever pulled. I don't think he ever pulled the card himself.

 

Oh yeah, for Morgan stories, I would like to see them reference an undercover case he did in the past. They mentioned that he worked undercover, but they never said anything more about it. I also want to see them use his bomb expertise again. There were opportunities to touch on that in two of the finales but they didn't do it.

 

For some little moments, I'd love to see Reid actually volunteer to shake someone's hand after he just watched the person wash his/her hands thoroughly.

 

Also, remember when Reid told someone that shaking hands spreads germs and that its safer to kiss? I wouldn't mind seeing him say that to someone and then they kiss him (either on the lips or cheek). The person could just say "Ok!" and kiss him on both cheeks.

 

I also want to see family members of a victim that has either been kidnapped or killed and they want the team to stay for dinner. One of the things I wish we'd seen in some of the episodes when they were sitting with families while their children were kidnapped was the family feeding the team to try to distract themselves and also to try to be nice to the people that were there trying to help them.

 

I'd love to see them find someone who is a great cook and they want to go back and grab some more of the delicious cookies before they leave. :P

 

(I've witnessed that some people just like to feed LEOs-- sometimes when my father and his people were making arrests and it was taking time to process the scene, some of the locals would order pizza for them or just bring food that they had cooked; that may have been a Guam thing though. They loved to feed people.)

 

I think having the townspeople actually reacting in ways I've seen real people act would help to make things seem a bit more real and add a bit more character to the places without making it overdone.

 

Someone mentioned having more Asians, I've found that when I've been in Asian communities, they really like to feed people. 

 

Willowy mentioned the horrible burning fish guts smell in "Revelations" and it made me think about scent association and how I wish that at least once they would have the team walk by some place with burning fish and have the smell remind Reid of his ordeal and he feels sick because off it. I wish they had done it when Blake was on the show because she might not know about what happened to him and such.

 

Or it would be interesting if they had to talk to family members and they had that smell going on and the people would initially think Reid had a weak stomach and couldn't handle gore, when it would be the fish reminding him of what happened. Then Hotch could pat him on the shoulder, ask if he was ok, and then tell him to get some air.

 

I know that by now Rossi probably knows what happened to Reid, but I wish we'd seen him finding out.

 

Maybe we can learn that Reid now hates cooked fish in general because of that experience.

Edited May 21, 2014 by zannej

[zannej]

Bah. I typed up a response and my cat stepped on my mouse and took me off the page...

 

I was saying that Matthew knew his situation was only temporary and that if he'd told someone on the set that he wanted to get up and stretch or that he needed a blanket, they would have accommodated him. Sure Vanderbeek scared him, but I think that worked for him. He was able to laugh about it after the fact. I do think he exaggerated a bit to make the story more entertaining when he talked about it. It's not like he had no end in sight.

 

I should have clarified that sometimes bleeding squicks me-- mostly if its from needles or cutting. For some reason gore from bullets doesn't bug me, but scenes with cutting with a knife and such do bug me. For some reason the needle scene didn't bug me too much either though.

 

I have been a bit desensitized to violence though. I've heard stories of real life torture experiences and seen pictures of some pretty horrific things. I've seen at least one of the Faces of Death movies (not something I would recommend for entertainment).

[Wilowy]

Oh yeah and he also said they were really burning those fish entrails and the whole place smelled rank the entire time.

 

Sounded like it freakin' sucked for him, as a shoot.  

[zannej]

LOL. Yeah. I forgot about that. At least he had a sense of humor about it. His sense of humor and joking about the whole thing and his excitement made it more enjoyable for me to watch.

 

That reminds me of a missed opportunity. Smell is something that can really bring back memories and they never mentioned that smell again. I think I'll take the rest of this thought to the wishlist thread.

 

I have to say, I did love how the team were wrinkling their noses and being all "ugh, what is that smell?". I think actually having that smell really worked for the scene. Loved how Matthew said the smell reminded him of French food.

 

One nitpick I had was that someone mentioned that they had declared "Martial Law" and it didn't trigger the thought for Prentiss, but when she saw there was a place called "Marshall" she suddenly remembered something from Tobias' journal about keeping clean and staying away from Marshall. 

 

Of course, my favorite scenes were at the end when Reid was getting hugs.

[Wilowy]

Of course, my favorite scenes were at the end when Reid was getting hugs.

 

Always my favorite, too. 

 

[zannej]

I think "Revelations" was one of the first episodes that my brother actually watched with me. He was really enjoying it and he actually said "Awww" when Reid said to Hotch "I knew you'd understand" and hugged him. I think his favorite character is Morgan but he still thinks Reid is awesome. I have some male friends that only watch the show because of Reid. LOL.

[Wilowy]

Well... can you blame them?

 

[zannej]

LOL. They are straight skinny guys and they just think Reid is awesome because he's a skinny guy like them. I think they just also like that he's a genius and is cool in general.

 

I think they also like Hotch.

 

Don't know why, but I just remembered a funny scene when the ladies were talking to pregnant JJ and I think Prentiss said something along the lines of JJ snagging the last viable donor (or something like that) and Hotch walks up and says "donor for what?" There was no answer, but I found it funny that he was interested in their conversation, although I wonder if he overheard more than he let on and was giving them a hard time. Also loved his response when JJ went into labor. No wasting time, he just said he was getting the car. I sort of wish we'd seen part of that car ride. I would have loved it if Hotch could have said something to JJ about what he learned from Haley's pregnancy. 

 

Was it North Mammon where JJ really pushed Hotch to take the case and he agreed because he trusted her instincts? It was subtle and she wasn't being superJJ. She just had this sense and she legitimately cared about the victims. I love that Hotch showed that trust.

[Wilowy]

It was North Mammon. I love that creepy fucking episode. 

 

And I also would have liked to have seen JJ's car ride to the hospital. We need more scenes like that.

[zannej]

Two more scenes I liked were from "Mayhem" and "Ashes and Dust". Hotch totally freaking out when Kate was wounded and there was nothing he could really do but call out for help. Hotch is someone who is usually so reserved and in control and here he was almost panicking. It really rattled Morgan. He heard Hotch shouting and he just wanted to go help. It was really getting to him that he was being stopped and he knew Hotch would not have been calling out like that if it wasn't something very very serious. It was subtly showing that family connection and showing Morgan's personality trait of wanting to protect people. Meanwhile Hotch freaks out when he is helpless to save or help someone.  In "Ashes and Dust", Hotch had come to care about Abby and flipped out when he saw the fire and he desperately wanted to save the man but couldn't do anything. Once again he was powerless. It was also a time when Morgan was there to try to calm him down. He didn't act judgmental or anything, he just told Hotch there was nothing to be done and physically restrained him. Poor Hotch. 

Now that made me think of the episode where Morgan was freaking out about his cousin and Reid just calmly told him that they needed to do something with the profile (I can't remember the exact words). Reid was the calm voice of reason while Morgan was upset.

[Danielg342]

I think the only way I would accept a bisexual trait for Reid would be if Reid was the main, central character- that way they could make it a trait, treat it properly, and not have it overwhelm his character. If it were to happen on CM, I wouldn't trust the writers to not let it overwhelm his identity, especially considering how poorly defined the characters are as it is.

I second the ideas for Morgan. I could be wrong, but I think the only time he ever used his bomb expertise was in “Won't Get Fooled Again”, which is far too long if you ask me. He should be the one who always disarms the bombs. Furthermore, it's been so long since the team had a bombing case- it'd be the perfect opportunity for Morgan to show off his expertise, as he'd be the best one to know why an UnSub used the materials that he did.

(Which brings me to his other expertise- his status as the “obsessional crime expert”. They need to call that up far more often and they don't)

I'd also love to see another undercover case- not just using Morgan, but in general. The BAU would be so effective at infiltrating crime rings that it's a shame the team doesn't do it more often.

Also, finally wholeheartedly agree with the families cooking for the team and stuff. I've long held that at least some of these victims should be thankful they got rescued, and I think it'd be a great way to show that. I think I'd also like to see a family offer the team a place to stay or set up shop, with the family more active in the case, without the family coming under suspicion. We've really only seen this once, really- “Broken Mirror”- so it'd be nice if they used it again.

[zannej]

I can't remember in which episode it was, but someone gave Hotch a plate of brownies once. Was that "Broken Mirror"? It was a nice touch.

I think Morgan's bomb expertise also came in to play in "Empty Planet" but I'm not sure.

[normasm]

Daniel, your idea about having more undercover cases, I'd like to see Reid in an undercover capacity, coached by Morgan. There is such potential for psychological profiling in this situation, and it would need to be subtly done, and not very often. Maybe one undercover story a year.

 

I think the Edge of Winter episode, which combined the retrospect profiling of a case with the present day prep for trial, was refreshing, and showed us how they actually spend a lot of their time. I'd be nice to see more of the trial/testifying side of the job. Tabula Rasa was the only other time i remember them doing this, and it was well-done.

[zannej]

There was one more episode where a female prosecutor wanted Hotch to assess the defendant in a case and it turns out the woman had been abused by her husband (not sure if it was physical but there was clear emotional abuse) and the woman snapped. Hotch got the woman to say something that made it clear that she was not in her right mind. Anyone remember that one?

[mstaken]

Anyone remember that one?

 

Hmmm...was that The Crossing? That's one I usually skip, so I can't be sure! 

[Danielg342]

There was one more episode where a female prosecutor wanted Hotch to assess the defendant in a case and it turns out the woman had been abused by her husband (not sure if it was physical but there was clear emotional abuse) and the woman snapped. Hotch got the woman to say something that made it clear that she was not in her right mind. Anyone remember that one?

"The Crossing", I think.

[zannej]

Wasn't that the one where someone called on JJ to get the team to help with a stalking case?

 

As for undercover cases, I don't think they really make much sense for the team. They have agents specially trained for that kind of work. I'd rather they stick to profiling and things within their realms of expertise. All of them have been on TV now so they could be recognized.

 

I would love to see Reid actually teaching the rest of the team how to do something for a change. I'd like to see them remember that Reid is a handwriting expert and have a case where there are things supposedly written by the victim, but Reid can tell they were written by someone else. And I sort of want to see someone call Reid out on his knowledge of something and have Reid prove he knows by explaining something. Not quite like the scene with the fiance in My Cousin Vinny, but something similar.

[idiotwaltz]

Speaking of The Crossing, I'd like to see some episodes where the team splits up and work different cases, just for variety's sake, like they did in that episode as well as in Damaged. 

[normasm]

The Crossing wasn't about testifying, but it was about expert opinion, another task they have in the real life BAU. In Tabula Rasa, Hotch was treated (perhaps erroneously) as both a witness to the case and an expert witness on behalf of profiling as a legit discipline that helps find murderers. 

 

BTW, I agree it wouldn't be plausible to have the BAU guys go undercover very often, but it can work. Snake Eyes is one example where Reid went UC and profiled the killer. It was plausible, as far as it went. I'm not suggesting too much more than that kind of thing.

[kikismom]

I wouldn't mind an episode where Lila calls Reid, not because of a stalker or a crime problem, just out of the blue.

 

I would like an episode where, for some reason (I still have to think of a plausible reason-- feel free to suggest), they have to solve a historic serial murder case ( like the Devil In The White City/Harry Holmes case, or the Kansas "Body Farm" case, or Jack the Ripper. Or even...just for a little mystery and humor/fan love...an episode where they are people in the old days, in the middle of some historic crime.

[zannej]

I admit that I actually don't like when they split the team up to do separate cases. It reminds me too much of the later years on Stargate: SG1 where they would film two episodes the same week and they would split the cast so half were working on one episode one day and then another episode the next day and they kept switching back and forth. It caused them to have certain pairings where some of the cast were barely working witch each other anymore and always stuck with certain people. 

 

I'd be worried that CM would get stuck with only certain pairings-- like JJ would forever be paired with Morgan and Reid would be getting cozy with the coffee machine at the station all the time. It would be interesting if they had to split up to different police stations to work the same case and had Hotch in charge at one station and Rossi in charge at another. Then they could communicate via videoconference or something. But I would only want them to do a case like that maybe once or twice. I think they are already splitting them up into groups too much and not spending enough time with them all working together.

Edited May 22, 2014 by zannej

[Danielg342]

One thing I missed earlier that I'll mention now: I wished they hadn't killed off Zoe Hawkes. Amy Davidson was so cute and adorable playing her, and Hawkes had the drive and investigative know-how that she could have made a great agent one day. So here's hoping Davidson can come back as Zoe's sister or something, because that will help undo how cruel "Zoe's Reprise" was.

I'm not so sure about an entire episode done with the characters playing other characters, as it seems too campy for CM; and I feel that, while a "blast from the past" episode is a nice idea, I think it's too late to invoke the motif of an entire episode that's essentially a flashback, as now it ruins the "feel" of the episodes. Also, while I like the idea of CM tackling real life unsolved cases- like Zodiac or the Long Island Ripper- I'm not sure they could be executed to everyone's satisfaction. A CM solution relies on there being no new information appearing about the case (which would be impossible), plus there would be too many people who've researched the case themselves nitpicking the result. Lastly, though, the relatives of the victims might get angry seeing fictional characters solve a case real life investigators can't (because then the investigators might be chided for not seeing the "easy" solution TV provides). I think a story where the BAU solves a current unsolved case is best served for fics- that way pet theories can be showcased without stepping on any toes- with the most the show itself actually doing be nothing more than referencing it and maybe mentioning that Rossi or Hotch left the investigators a profile and that they're routinely in touch with the investigators as the case progresses.

What I'd enjoy, though, is seeing the team on a current case that involves a copycat of a past case, with flashbacks to that case providing tactics/clues to solve the current one. It'd be a great way to bring back old members of the BAU- like Max Ryan (who'd have so many fireworks with Rossi) and Katherine Cole- and it would help beef up the BAU backstory. Furthermore, I liked the references to real life cases the show used to bring up in the past- while I wouldn't want the show to use those cases as flashbacks, I want to see references to when the team worked on those cases, as it builds the "mythology" of the BAU even more.

[zannej]

I think that if they did the story of the cast playing different characters but still solving a case, it could be told as almost a fairy tale story from a surviving victim or it could be a dream or something. Not sure how well it would pan out though.

 

I would like to see Max Ryan again and see how he's doing. I got the impression that Hotch was not impressed with him. Reid seemed to be impressed, but it was interesting when he asked for Hotch's assessment. Hotch pretty much implied that Reid was a better profiler and had nothing to learn from Max.

 

Speaking of real life cases, I just watched an episode of "I Survived" in which real victims tell stories of their brushes with death. One of the stories was about Mark Twitchell as told by victim Gilles Tetreault. He was a wannabe horror film maker who decided to actually act out the crimes and then write the script. Posing as a woman on the internet, he lured men to a garage. Gilles Tetreault escaped and told the story. The second one, Johnny Altinger, was killed.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Twitchell+testifies+stabbed+Altinger/4569198/story.html

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Twitchell+guilty+first+degree+murder/4604391/story.html

It's interesting because Gilles initially didn't come forward because he was ashamed at having been duped. It was only after he found out about the murder of Altinger that he went to the police.

 

The whole thing sounded like something that could have been on CM as one of their cases-- only the body count would have to be higher and perhaps cross state lines.