Legion's Comic Book Origins and Theories About the Show

[PatternRec]

So far the show has varied greatly from anything in the comic but there are lots of thematic and deep underlying similarities. 

First of all the character was created by Chris Claremont and Bill Sienkiewicz in a comic called The New Mutants, which was a X-men spinoff. Claremont was pretty much the sole creator of X-men related stuff for over a decade. Bill Sienkiewicz was an amazing artist, and here's where the stylistic comparison comes in. Sienkiewicz was a painter, and his comic book art was incredibly different to what was out in the 80s. Printing at the time wasn't going to allow for painted artwork in a comic like they can do today but Sienkiewicz treated the page like a canvas. He scratched and splooshed black ink all over the page. The characters were drawn in a way that was both more realistic than any comic art at the time as well as being expressionistic. I'm gonna find some to post here after I finish composing this. 

In any case, as far as the art goes, I think the expressionism is what attracted Hawley and he is recreating that feel without trying to ape the style. I like it. 

As for the character origins, here's a slightly edited copy-pasta of my summary from another thread. I'm writing this bit based on memory so if I have some details wrong please feel free to jump in:

Quote

 

In the comic when we first meet David/Legion he is catatonic, and brought to Charles Xavier for help. It's also revealed that he is Xavier's son. His state is a result of his inability to deal with his telepathic powers on his own though most of his life he's been misdiagnosed as autistic and schizophrenic. Xavier and several others go into David's mind on the astral plane to try to help him. 

They find that David's mind has been shattered into separate entities as a result of a terrorist bombing. Due to his powers David ended up with the disembodied mind of one of the dead people in his head. So at this point he has at least two different people in his head, himself and one other, in addition to having created other identities. Each identity has a different mutant power. One is a firestarter, one is telekinetic. If you pay attention in the show when David is rescued from the pool one person has firestarting powers and one has telekinetic powers. 

There's also at least one person/identity in his mind who is actively working against David, destroying and corrupting his memories in order to take control and be in possession of David's massive powers. In the show I believe this is who the Yellow Eyed Devil is. I don't think those memories they see of the creepy book are real so much as it is this Shadow King trying to break down David's mind and change his memories in order to control it. 

 

So here's my breakdown and some theories: Dr. Kind is playing the Xavier role, the teacher. Ptonomy is not in the comic so I suspect he was created as a way to enter David's mind in the absence of having Prof Xavier in the show. I'm pretty sure the Yellow-Eyed Devil is the Shadow King trying to take control of David. I'm also pretty sure Lenny is/was possessed by the Shadow King. I think the firestarter (Kerry?) and the un-named telekinetic dude are aspects of David's mind. 

It gets more complex with Syd. I think she's real, not a part of David's mind. I'm less sure about this one, but I think the kiss in the institution might be the equivalent of David being in the bombing. The theory is that Syd got trapped in his mind and everything we've seen since then, at least the stuff from David's perspective, has been in David's mind/the astral plane.

The Division Three stuff and the stuff we see with his sister is all happening in the real world but everything at Summerland is happening in the astral plane. Dr Kind is helping David to use his powers by teaching the various entities in his head to work together as a team. Basically we're seeing a superhero team origin, but the team all exists inside one person. 

Post your thoughts here. I'm looking forward to talking about it. This is my new fave show!

[PatternRec]

I uploaded some scans from the comic to give an example of the artwork from the origin story. 

[planet17]

Well, I actually had some theories after I watched the pilot... not not anymore.

I also used to think that the firestarted Kerry was an aspect of David's personality. And that Lenny was also part of that same aspect, only manifesting in a different way. Now, based on what we've seen, Lenny was a real person (she interacted with too many people now), and we've seen Kerry interacting with others too. I thought they were the personality that in the comics is Cindy.

The telekinetic guy I still think is one of David's personality, the one in the comics named Jack.

 

About the devil with the yellow eyes, a lot of people think he can be Shadow King. Some think Mojo because the way he looks. But he could be just a darker personality.

 

Oh, and Syd has got to be real.

Edited February 25, 2017 by planet17

[PatternRec]

@planet17 yeah Syd's def real. And I think Summerland is as well, which is different to my theory above. I agree that Lenny is real but I still think she's possessed by the Shadow King (if that's who the devil is). 

As for Kerry, at one point she walked into Cary and merged with him. It was in ep 2 or 3 I'll find it and clip it later. 

[planet17]

I think Lenny was a real person and she actually died. But she was a part of David's life, so he "absorbed" her and one of David's personality manifests as her.

[PatternRec]

@planet17 here's the scene I talked about with Cary/Kerry. At first I was thinking it could represent that one of them isn't really there, but it could also be a visual representation of David's confusion about the names while he was in the MRI. 

http://imgur.com/a/VI6jp

Edited February 26, 2017 by PatternRec

[planet17]

Oh... good catch. I didn't notice that when I watched it. Now I'm back with the previous theory that Kerry is one of his personalities (inspired by Cindy from the comics). But I think Carry is real.

 

There is one scene, in the pilot, when Syd comes to rescue David, there is a quick flash showing them at the hospital. In that scene Kerry "changes" to Lenny. That's where my theory that both of them are the same aspect of David's personality (Cindy) came from.

 

Now, I have seen every episode just once, so I didn't pay too much attention. Based on the comics, and apparently the show, every personality controls one of David's power. So Kerry could be a reinvention of Cindy, the one who controls pyrokinesis. The guy from the pilot in the rescue scene could be a reinvention of Jack, the one who controls telekinisis. In this last episode we find out that David can teleport. Could the Angriest Boy be the personality who controls that?

And instead of Mojo or Shadow King, could "the devil with the yellow eyes" be a reinvention (or a different manifestation) of Jemail Karami?

 

I used to read the X-Men comics, but I've never really seen David in any issue I read at all, so I don't know him. So here is a question: was Karami the only personality "outside" David. I mean, the only one he "absorbed it", and the one who wanted control of his body? Because it seems the other personalities were "internals", coming from his illness.

Edited February 26, 2017 by planet17

[PatternRec]

On 2/25/2017 at 6:49 PM, planet17 said:

Oh... good catch. I didn't notice that when I watched it. Now I'm back with the previous theory that Kerry is one of his personalities (inspired by Cindy from the comics). But I think Carry is real.

Afaik Kerry has only ever talked to David. That may be a clue. Also I'm super stoked you're as into this as I am :D 

On 2/25/2017 at 6:49 PM, planet17 said:

There is one scene, in the pilot, when Syd comes to rescue David, there is a quick flash showing them at the hospital. In that scene Kerry "changes" to Lenny. That's where my theory that both of them are the same aspect of David's personality (Cindy) came from.

I'm still not sure how much of the visuals represent something real like a connection between people, and a visual representation of David's mental confusion. grrrrrr

On 2/25/2017 at 6:49 PM, planet17 said:

Now, I have seen every episode just once, so I didn't pay too much attention. Based on the comics, and apparently the show, every personality controls one of David's power. So Kerry could be a reinvention of Cindy, the one who controls pyrokinesis. The guy from the pilot in the rescue scene could be a reinvention of Jack, the one who controls telekinisis. In this last episode we find out that David can teleport. Could the Angriest Boy be the personality who controls that?

And instead of Mojo or Shadow King, could "the devil with the yellow eyes" be a reinvention (or a different manifestation) of Jemail Karami?

With the info we have so far a lot of the characters seem to be a pastiche of stuff from the comics. The telekinetic from the pilot is no doubt "Jack" in terms of powers but obviously the devil/angriest boy is the one working counter to David's sanity. I feel like the Devil with Yellow Eyes is somehow both Jack and the Shadow King mixed together (not literally but in a narrative sense when translating one medium to the other). 

I don't think it was a coincidence that Happy Jack was the episode 1 opening song. In the comics: 

Spoiler

Jack turned out to be the one working against David from within whereas Jemail was trying to help David. 

Check your PMs for more info...

 

 

edit: btw I don't recall at all if he was able to teleport in the book...

Edited February 28, 2017 by PatternRec

[PatternRec]

@planet17 I just found another Kerry clue. Watch this scene - where does she come from? But you don't notice at first because the editing is so slick. 

[PatternRec]

Finally finished re-watching episode 3. When they show the Devil with Yellow Eyes he's wearing a tattered old version of the black and white suit that the Angriest Boy is wearing. 

edit: I'm also fairly certain Dr Bird is David's mother. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by PatternRec

[planet17]

@PatternRec Yes, I'm happy I found someone to theorize too.

Like I said before, I've seen each episode only once. It's great to have someone that pays a better attention to details because Legion is that kind of show.

Anyway, about the video, I'm still a bit confused about how Kerry interect with others. Maybe it's just in David's mind.

Also, I'm curious about what makes you think Melanie is David's mother. I do find strange we haven't seen Gabrielle. And do you have any theories about the dad David cannot see?

[ZoloftBlob]

Just a counter theory about Kerry/Cary - my original thought was that Cary's mutant power is the physical manifestation of Kerry, his female alter ego. So the merging and sudden appearance of Kerry has nothing to do with David's powers but with Cary's... and Cary currently has no other obvious powers.

[PatternRec]

9 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Just a counter theory about Kerry/Cary - my original thought was that Cary's mutant power is the physical manifestation of Kerry, his female alter ego. So the merging and sudden appearance of Kerry has nothing to do with David's powers but with Cary's... and Cary currently has no other obvious powers.

Ooh I like that! 

[PatternRec]

On 2/28/2017 at 8:12 AM, planet17 said:

Also, I'm curious about what makes you think Melanie is David's mother. I do find strange we haven't seen Gabrielle. And do you have any theories about the dad David cannot see?

In Episode 3 at the end when Melanie is stuck in the memory and she's reading the book when the king comes up behind her there's emphasis on the line in the story about the mother getting her head cut off. This could be literal or could just be a metaphor for what Dr Bird represents. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by PatternRec

[PatternRec]

We get the first reference to the Astral Plane from the comic in Episode 4. Also the Cary/Kerry mystery is cleared up, as @ZoloftBlob correctly predicted. 

More evidence to support or debunk as I continue my re-watches:

So far we have evidence that the entity can edit or erase things in David's memories. I think we actually saw this happen in episode 3. Melanie and Ptonomy are with David in his memories and when they try to push past a block the Devil shows up but only David sees him. Just as the chaos ends we see an image of the Devil flash in David's eye. When Melanie asks what happened David says he doesn't know. I think the flash in the eye was the memory erase happening. I think also for some reason the YED is replacing Benny with Lenny in David's memories. 

In episode 4 we learn that David's childhood dog King never existed. Re-watching episode 3 with that info I noticed that the Halloween memory shows David and Amy trick or treating with King, and when King runs off David follows and once he's alone that's when he sees the Angriest Boy. I think this is more evidence that the dog is somehow the entity, or connected to it. 

[planet17]

@PatternRec Well, we've got some answers (and more questions) about Lenny too. She is actually a man...? Is she actually a man and David just see him as woman? Or maybe is Lenny/Benny's powers? The one thing I found intriguing is that they revealed that about Lenny in the same episode they revealed Cary/Kerry's powers. And I remember in that scene in the pilot when Syd rescues David, that he has a flash of the hospital and Kerry "changes" to Lenny.

Damn! This show is so deliciously confusing <3

 

Also, there is something about a dog too. I know that people have noticed a lot of mentions of dogs on the show. For instance, in the pilot, in the interrogation scene, David is holding a toy dog. In some external scene, we can see that there are statues of dogs in the hospital. There are other easter eggs too. And now we've got this revelation that King never existed. And also, in the pilot, when they take a break from the interrogation and it's reavealed a whole militaty team behind it and a old man monitoring the interrogation. In that scene we can see a misterious covered cage with a animal inside that appears to be a dog. That scene intrigued me in the pilot, now I'm more intrigued with this whole thing with dogs.

[hincandenza]

On 3/4/2017 at 6:10 PM, planet17 said:

@PatternRec Well, we've got some answers (and more questions) about Lenny too. She is actually a man...? Is she actually a man and David just see him as woman? Or maybe is Lenny/Benny's powers? The one thing I found intriguing is that they revealed that about Lenny in the same episode they revealed Cary/Kerry's powers. And I remember in that scene in the pilot when Syd rescues David, that he has a flash of the hospital and Kerry "changes" to Lenny.

Damn! This show is so deliciously confusing <3

 

Also, there is something about a dog too. I know that people have noticed a lot of mentions of dogs on the show. For instance, in the pilot, in the interrogation scene, David is holding a toy dog. In some external scene, we can see that there are statues of dogs in the hospital. There are other easter eggs too. And now we've got this revelation that King never existed. And also, in the pilot, when they take a break from the interrogation and it's reavealed a whole militaty team behind it and a old man monitoring the interrogation. In that scene we can see a misterious covered cage with a animal inside that appears to be a dog. That scene intrigued me in the pilot, now I'm more intrigued with this whole thing with dogs.

I just started watching a couple of days ago after someone turned me onto this show.  It is such a mindfuck, but I'm totally intrigued since the acting, surreal quality, and whatever it is that Noah Hawley does so well (Fargo was amazing!) make this captivating even with the built-on-quicksand story so far.  I feel I'll have to rewatch this again once the season is over, provided it doesn't go splat with some "It was all a dream!" cop-out, since it's walking a dangerous tight rope of the too-unreliable narrator.  If I get to the final episode this season and it turns out the entire show is just an addiction-withdrawal fever dream of Elliot Alderson's while in jail after the F-society hack... well, imma punch my TV. :)

I didn't read any of the Legion comics, although I read Sienkewicz' "Stray Toasters" when I was a kid in the late 80's; from what I can tell so far, David is far and away the most powerful mutant we've seen in TV/movies excepting I guess the Jean Grey/Phoenix storyline from X3.  I particularly like that the Summerland crew is getting very... unsettled... by David, and for good reason; it seems a far more common trope in superhero stories that everyone is totally blase with someone being effectively a walking nuclear weapon.  Does he even have any limits to his powers other than what is self-imposed by his own mental issues and the parasitic host that's erasing his memories, or is he going to be college roommates with Franklin Richards?  I'm especially curious what the "what did the stars say" plot will reveal.  I'm assuming- again, not having read the comics, so feel free to laugh at my naivete- that the (Shadow) King or Mojo or whomever people are talking about in these forums as the YED is something decidedly not human or even from Earth, presumably from deep space that latched onto his brain while he was staring at the stars with his dad.  It's kind of implied that his telepathy is Xavier-in-Cerebro levels, so maybe he reached out literally across the galaxy while stargazing and accidentally got "infected".

 

As for the dog symbolism, I haven't rewatched yet but doesn't the current villain- "The Eye" I think his name was? Not sure if he's in comics canon- also carry a little wooden dog carving at times?

[PatternRec]

1 hour ago, hincandenza said:

I just started watching a couple of days ago after someone turned me onto this show.  It is such a mindfuck, but I'm totally intrigued since the acting, surreal quality, and whatever it is that Noah Hawley does so well (Fargo was amazing!) make this captivating even with the built-on-quicksand story so far.  I feel I'll have to rewatch this again once the season is over, provided it doesn't go splat with some "It was all a dream!" cop-out, since it's walking a dangerous tight rope of the too-unreliable narrator.  If I get to the final episode this season and it turns out the entire show is just an addiction-withdrawal fever dream of Elliot Alderson's while in jail after the F-society hack... well, imma punch my TV. :)

I have faith that this is going somewhere. Hawley's good. Like you, I hate the "all just a dream" endings you get in stories like this. Otherwise I will join in the tv punching, all the while yelling "Jacob's Ladder!"

1 hour ago, hincandenza said:

from what I can tell so far, David is far and away the most powerful mutant we've seen in TV/movies excepting I guess the Jean Grey/Phoenix storyline from X3.  I particularly like that the Summerland crew is getting very... unsettled... by David, and for good reason; it seems a far more common trope in superhero stories that everyone is totally blase with someone being effectively a walking nuclear weapon

Yeah I like that too. I can accept the unreal in a story, things like teleportation etc, if the characters' emotional reactions to them are appropriate. 

1 hour ago, hincandenza said:

As for the dog symbolism, I haven't rewatched yet but doesn't the current villain- "The Eye" I think his name was? Not sure if he's in comics canon- also carry a little wooden dog carving at times?

He's been whittling thing. There was a dog but I think he made some other stuff too. None of the characters in the show are in the books except David. And possibly YED if that is the Shadow King. The Shadow King has been an X-men big bad for a while and is a psychic entity that takes over a human host like a parasite so unless Oliver's info was all a misdirect I'm pretty sure that's who we're dealing with.

[PatternRec]

OK so episode 5. We know King, YED, Angriest Boy, Benny and Lenny are all the same. Here's my take on each: 

• YED - this is the Shadow King in the present time. In the comics the human host bodies of the Shadow King would become morbidly obese due to his appetites and the fact that he didn't give a fuck about the bodies he used because he could take another. I think they decided to take this aspect and use it metaphorically for the visual of the psychic entity rather than going down the physical route (which was something that usually took years and years) 
• Angriest Boy - probably the first incarnation of the Shadow King when it attached itself to David. Could be an image from a scary book or more likely it's the closest approximation of human it could look when it first met David. The YED, the older version, has always been depicted in a tattered version of the little boy costume, except when it's naked (ugh).
• King - Angriest Boy realizes that little David will trust a puppy. What better way to start getting control of him? This way instead of looking like a scary boy from a Victorian era children's book David sees him as a puppy and they can interact. YED will alter David's memories any time he begins to perceive the true entity.
• Benny, a real friend of David's when he was a junkie. Using the same logic as "a little boy will trust his puppy" the YED uses the image of David's best friend to continue to be able to talk to David in David's mind without being revealed for what it is. 
• Lenny, same as Benny, wash rinse repeat.

edit: clarifying ideas, fixing grammar 

Edited March 9, 2017 by PatternRec

[PatternRec]

I'm doing my usual second watch of the show now. I'll add thoughts as they come up. so far:

• Dr. Bird may be telepathic as well? Dr. Bird is telepathic: She speaks first to David when there's glass between them, before he even sees her. She also initiates conversation during her discussion with David and Syd. 
• When discussing David Dr. Bird tells Syd that Syd "saw something similar with Walter." Isn't Walter the name of the guy who became The Eye? Then why didn't Syd recognize him in their two encounters?
• (more to come/watch this space)

edit: 

• The headband that Cary builds is *right* out of another, much earlier X-men storyline - the original Dark Phoenix saga. I have a digital copy so I can get a cap of the page that shows how Beast makes something designed to work exactly the same when the X-men have to fight Dark Phoenix - an omega level mutant with reality-warping powers that was taken over by an evil entity or possibly insane or both. 
• Lenny/The Shadow King convinces David to leave Syd behind when they hit D3. I think this is to keep her from seeing David wantonly killing first-hand. Having her see the aftermath and video footage leaves a level of distance that keeps the mental/emotional attack on Syd at a steady but brutal pace. 
• David and Syd buttcrack scene #thumbs up
• Syd's story is horrifying without falling into cliche of "mom's bf or dad abused me." It also preceded my fave quote of the episode: "who teaches us to be normal when we're one of a kind?"
• Given that so many shows have sort of betrayal as a capper to beating the Big Bad there's a part of me that thinks were gonna find out Dr. Bird's operation is Division 2
• Syd acting like a teenager when Dr. Bird confronted her was further proof that she's under King's control loosely part of the time, not just just being lied to by David while he provides her with intimacy. That's very unlike her. 
• The aftermath of David's attack is horrible :( 
• It's only the second time we've seen the telekinetic dude but it's nice to see one who's got his shit together. None of this "holding my hand at my head then a screwdriver moves slightly" followed by a training montage before they're even moderately powered. This dude throws around bodies and chunks of metal with ease. 
• David used his powers similarly to this episode in the first chapter. It was edited subtly but I've been waiting for them to show more before I went back and clipped it. Later tonight or tomorrow. 
• The playfulness and glee with which DUI* killed the soldiers mimics how the Shadow King was presented in the comics when he was abusing the hell of of controlling a very powerful mutant. 
• The use of the term schizophrenic is so wrong it makes me angry even if they change the words to "split mind" 
• I think it's supposed to be the mid-nineties? Dr. Bird says Oliver's been out for 21 years, and he's stuck in the early seventies mentally. It also gels with Syd being mentally disarmed by Rainbow Connection - she would have been at an impressionable age when The Muppet Movie came out. 
• The Eye can definitely cover his traces or make people see things that aren't there telepathically. It's probably the only thing that saved him from being killed. It also means he's powerful enough to fool DUI 
• Aubrey Plaza is amazing in this.
• Amy's secret that David was adopted? I wonder if they're sticking with Prof X as his dad or Oliver/Melanie or some combination thereof. 
• When they get to David and Amy's old house, when all the sound goes off was amazing. I don't think we can take that at face value because it doesn't make sense for David to just remove sound. I think it's a way in the medium of TV they've crossed into the Astral Plane, which would have a dream-like quality to it, which this scene had. 
• The bit where Dr. Bird sees Cary first but Ptonomy can't tell who it is yet was well done. 
• Kerri has a nail bat in there. Does it hurt Cary? :D
• Lenny and David in front of Syd :o did I mention Aubrey Plaza was amazing? 
• Cary's quiet protesting for a peaceful resolution to things I think is less about morality than it is about getting beat up all the time when Kerry comes out :D
• The white room scene at the end with the King is horrifying. 
• The ending: King's got them all now and can start to control them just like it is David, with the "astral plane group therapy" I think representing the King's ability to "get inside their heads" and root out secrets. 
• The ping pong sound throughout the end credits! perfect! 

And I'm done. 

Wait! One more!

• If the King is now actually in control of the group of them as the end implies maybe Lenny and Benny weren't just friends who King stole their likeness in David's mind. Maybe they were the King's first puppets outside of David. And only now is King powerful enough to control more than one other because it has more control of David.

 

*David Under the Influence

Edited March 9, 2017 by PatternRec

[PatternRec]

1 hour ago, PatternRec said:

David used his powers similarly to this episode in the first chapter. It was edited subtly but I've been waiting for them to show more before I went back and clipped it. Later tonight or tomorrow. 

 

[Cardie]

I think the Shadow King may have been the puppy first, so as to get the confidence of a young child. Then, to prep him for violence to come, he took on the image of the Angriest Boy from the storybook.

Does anyone think DUI killed his adoptive parents?

[PatternRec]

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

I think the Shadow King may have been the puppy first, so as to get the confidence of a young child. Then, to prep him for violence to come, he took on the image of the Angriest Boy from the storybook.

I'd buy that. I wonder if they'll ever give us a timeline or just let us fill some of the gaps in. 

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

Does anyone think DUI killed his adoptive parents?

Not sure, since in the comics Prof Xavier was David's dad and Hawley has said he wants to keep that in the canon, but no concrete info's been released on that. 

[PatternRec]

10 hours ago, PatternRec said:

The headband that Cary builds is *right* out of another, much earlier X-men storyline - the original Dark Phoenix saga. I have a digital copy so I can get a cap of the page that shows how Beast makes something designed to work exactly the same when the X-men have to fight Dark Phoenix - an omega level mutant with reality-warping powers that was taken over by an evil entity or possibly insane or both. 

Here's three images from the Dark Phoenix saga that I believe they drew the idea for Cary's headband device: 

[PatternRec]

Season one of Legion is two X-men storylines combined and I think I know who The Eye is. I also posted this at reddit as well so if I'm right I can be internet famous for a day :D

I’m working on a theory here and I’d love some help developing it or poking holes in it to see if it’s solid. Also, most of my X-men comic book knowledge is from the earlier period: 70s, 80s, 90s were my comic-reading days so I’d appreciate any info from later x-books or the Ultimate universe, if any of that comes into play. 

It’s no leap of logic to say the first storyline is the Muir Island Saga (MIS). Legion gets taken over by the Shadow King and starts taking over X-men and X-men adjacent mutants. Hijinks ensue. 

The second storyline, and I’m super excited if this comes true, is the Dark Phoenix Saga (DPS). I think The Eye is the show’s version of Mastermind. In the DPS Mastermind’s power is that he creates illusions by projecting things directly into people’s minds. From what we’ve seen in the show The Eye’s powers seem eerily similar. He was able to appear as David’s psychiatrist and the telepathic dude from Melanie’s team. I think that’s how he was able to set the trap for Syd and Ptonomy - he projected an image/illusion into Philly’s head of the lighthouse because he knew Ptonomy would see it. 

The Eye’s powers are mental in nature so he can *sense* things like when David and Syd were astrally projecting, and he’s powerful enough to be able to fool even an Omega level mutant like David (or in DPS Phoenix herself). There’s no way he’d have survived the attack on D3 if he couldn’t shield his mind as well as his body from David. He can’t read minds though, which is why he and D3 had to rely on the torture/interrogation of Amy to find David.

As for the plot and character arcs, the show has other major elements of the DPS. An Omega level mutant becomes connected to a stronger entity that makes the Omega even more powerful but also dangerous. Said Omega goes over to the Dark Side and has to be taken down by their friends. Syd is Cyclops, the the one in a relationship with the Omega. Melanie is Professor X. (Btw, if Xavier’s group is called the X-men can we call Dr. Bird’s team the Bird-men?) 

There was a great visual nod in the show to the DPS too. The headband that Cary creates is right out of that storyline: http://imgur.com/a/EpfPu

Of course not everything lines up but that’s because we’re seeing a mix of the two storyline. The biggest diff being that YED is already evil whereas the Phoenix Force isn’t. 

There’s also elements of Grant Morrison’s Cassandra Nova story, but that in and of itself was already a mish-mash of those two previous storylines. Also the show’s reference to its timeframe points to a re-telling of mid-70s to-mid 90s X-men. Oliver is mentally in the 70s so I’d assume that’s when he “went under.” Dr. Bird says he’s been down for 21 years which would put the show about mid 90s. Even if the show isn’t set in a specific decade the show’s visual elements all scream pre-millennium. 

Thoughts? 
 

Edited March 10, 2017 by PatternRec
hyperlink formatting

[hincandenza]

Well I mean... I don't know enough to say you're wrong, but it sure sounds like you're dead-on with this theory.  The headband thing is too similar to be a coincidence, both visually and as a plot element.

[planet17]

Just now, PatternRec said:

I'm doing my usual second watch of the show now. I'll add thoughts as they come up. so far:

• Dr. Bird may be telepathic as well? Dr. Bird is telepathic: She speaks first to David when there's glass between them, before he even sees her. She also initiates conversation during her discussion with David and Syd. 

Is she? I assumed she talks to David the same way Scott talks to Jean.

[PatternRec]

5 minutes ago, planet17 said:

Is she? I assumed she talks to David the same way Scott talks to Jean.

It's possible. I hadn't thought of that before. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

How is the Eye impervious to bullets?

[PatternRec]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

How is the Eye impervious to bullets?

I wish I knew. Hopefully they clear up some stuff about him before the end of the season. 

[DanMSchro]

I'd like to bring up the color yellow.

Most obviously we've got David's t-shirt in the latest episode with the yellow triangle, giving a visual indication that the YED is emerging/taking hold. 

In the opening scene of the series, baby David is laying in his crib, on yellow sheets. Perhaps a hint that David has been infected with the YED since infancy, as Carey speculated.

And in the opening scene of episode four, we meet Oliver Bird, whose outfit is all kinds of yellow. Which, along with the weird speech he gives that's clearly a reference to how this story is playing out, gives a big signal that he's got more to do with this story that we yet know. 

Which brings me to another point about Oliver's integration into the story. We know that the YED may have been with David his whole life, 30 years, and that Oliver Bird was lost to the astral plane 21 years ago.

When Carey asks David to think of a really stressful memory, right before David and Syd project to D3, David starts to think about trick-or-treating as a child (maybe even 8-9 years old). Something terrifying happened to David that night, something the YED did. Maybe it has to do with Oliver Bird and is the same night he got trapped in the AP.

This is not the first time Halloween comes up either. David ends up on Amy's doorstep during trick-or-treating after he leaves Clockworks. Don't know what anything I've said means, but in shows like this, repetition isn't coincidence.

[Bruinsfan]

On 3/9/2017 at 3:32 PM, PatternRec said:

Not sure, since in the comics Prof Xavier was David's dad and Hawley has said he wants to keep that in the canon, but no concrete info's been released on that. 

Dan Stevens confirmed this on The Late Late Show, in the process of inviting Patrick Stewart to guest star on the series.

[PatternRec]

6 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Dan Stevens confirmed this on The Late Late Show, in the process of inviting Patrick Stewart to guest star on the series.

Sweet! Thanks. How recent? I'll look for it on YouTube. 

[Bruinsfan]

Sometime last week.

[planet17]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsmTReftEt8

 

I would love to see a complete new version of Xavier in the TV shows, ignoring the cinematic universe. Is everything needs to be connected now? Ugh. And their timeline is a complete mess anyway.

I think this would give the X-Men TV Shows much, much more creative freedom. Do it, Fox! Give us a new Prof. X in Legion.

[Bruinsfan]

While I would agree on giving Hawley free reign on the adaptation in general given what a good job he's doing despite considerable revamping, my adoration of Patrick Stewart trumps that. I can barely watch James McAvoy in the role, and that's an actor I've really liked for years.

[PatternRec]

@planet17 I agree completely. I'd hate to see this show get bogged down with continuity bullshit. It's the reason I drifted away from superhero comics in the 90s. All the crossovers they started doing ruined good books by making the writer of one property suddenly beholden to what the entire publishing house was doing every few months or so if not more frequently. 

@Bruinsfan Patrick Stewart is a little too old for the role I think. Not that he's too old to have fathered a thirty year old, but he could easily age out of the show if it paces slower than real time like most quality television does. I wouldn't want to see MacAvoy in the role either unless they decided to keep the show and the movies mostly separate. Like if they referenced pics of MacAvoy or something. Even that would take something away because then the TV writers have to write to the bigger world - ie. let's say they have a great idea for a mutant getting exposed to the general public. That idea is dead because we live in a world where Magneto and Apocalypse are a thing, etc. 

[SlackerInc]

You don't think they already have to follow continuity anyway?

[PatternRec]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

You don't think they already have to follow continuity anyway?

It depends. Bryan Singer is the exec producer and he's responsible for Fox's X-men universe but I'd love to see them go in a diff direction or just make the show part of its own continuity, like how all the DC shows Greg Berlanti does aren't connected to the DC movies at all. Though in this case it would make a good TV show instead of Arrow etc. :P 

[SlackerInc]

I figured they couldn't massively clash with continuity, but they're okay if they just kind of stay in their own sandbox.  So a story like you're talking about, where we get to see wide-scale reactions of society, would be avoided.  (If you notice, they are staying at the far other end of the spectrum: we hardly ever see the general public and certainly don't see newspapers or TV news reports.)

[PatternRec]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

I figured they couldn't massively clash with continuity, but they're okay if they just kind of stay in their own sandbox.  So a story like you're talking about, where we get to see wide-scale reactions of society, would be avoided.  (If you notice, they are staying at the far other end of the spectrum: we hardly ever see the general public and certainly don't see newspapers or TV news reports.)

I didn't mean that they'd have that type of thing in Legion. I'm saying it stretches the limits of belief for characters in Legion to act the way they do if they live in a world where Apocalypse and Magneto exist. For example, David's psychiatrist at Clockworks acting like David having abilities is a ridiculous concept whereas in an X-men world there would at least be a discussion that the concept isn't one that's outside the realm of possibility. 

[SlackerInc]

8 hours ago, PatternRec said:

I didn't mean that they'd have that type of thing in Legion. I'm saying it stretches the limits of belief for characters in Legion to act the way they do if they live in a world where Apocalypse and Magneto exist. For example, David's psychiatrist at Clockworks acting like David having abilities is a ridiculous concept whereas in an X-men world there would at least be a discussion that the concept isn't one that's outside the realm of possibility. 

True.  Shows how having a "universe" can be a two-edged sword.  I remember back in the '80s Marvel introduced a "new universe" so they could bring in some new characters with fairly moderate-level superpowers that would still seem impressive in a world closer to our own, with far fewer (and weaker) such powers to be found.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 3/19/2017 at 11:08 AM, planet17 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsmTReftEt8

 

I would love to see a complete new version of Xavier in the TV shows, ignoring the cinematic universe. Is everything needs to be connected now? Ugh. And their timeline is a complete mess anyway.

I think this would give the X-Men TV Shows much, much more creative freedom. Do it, Fox! Give us a new Prof. X in Legion.

I agree, even though I love Patrick Stewart. I'd like to see a new Prof. X in this show, as long as they cast a good actor that will bring something interesting to the role.

[planet17]

@PatternRec @KaleyFirefly For me, the best part of Legion (and the X-Men TV shows in general) not being part of the cinematic universe, is the freedom they have to tell wharever story they feel like. This week's episode gave us several hints about about David's father and all of them pointing at Charles. I'd hate to see Noah Hawley having his creativity "blocked" for the sake of cinematic universe. Ugh.

 

I really, really wanted to see Fox creating a television universe apart from the movies so they can use whatever character they want/need. And hopefully we can see some A list character on TV too, getting a proper attention and development, since TV is the best possible place to develop an ensemble.

[PatternRec]

6 hours ago, planet17 said:

@PatternRec @KaleyFirefly For me, the best part of Legion (and the X-Men TV shows in general) not being part of the cinematic universe, is the freedom they have to tell wharever story they feel like. This week's episode gave us several hints about about David's father and all of them pointing at Charles. I'd hate to see Noah Hawley having his creativity "blocked" for the sake of cinematic universe. Ugh.

Totally agree, or as the kids say today, totes mah goats.*

 

 

*edit: the kids don't *actually* say this

Edited March 26, 2017 by PatternRec

[Lantern7]

I like the show, though I don't know if "Legion" is an apt title, since this David doesn't have multiple personalities. I liked the first two volumes of X-Men: Legacy where he starred, following the death of Xavier in AvX. I dug that he had to subdue his inner demons in order to obtain their powers in the real world. Also, I'm not bothered that David doesn't have the hair that goes up seemingly forever.

[PatternRec]

9 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I like the show, though I don't know if "Legion" is an apt title, since this David doesn't have multiple personalities. I liked the first two volumes of X-Men: Legacy where he starred, following the death of Xavier in AvX. I dug that he had to subdue his inner demons in order to obtain their powers in the real world. Also, I'm not bothered that David doesn't have the hair that goes up seemingly forever.

I'm a little worried that we may be heading to an ending with all the characters being in David's head. I hope not, but the title would be vindicated. :/

Also glad they didn't try to give him weird hair. Also check out this video of an astronaut showing how she washes her hair in zero gravity. Her hair looks like Legion's! 

[planet17]

Just now, Lantern7 said:

I like the show, though I don't know if "Legion" is an apt title, since this David doesn't have multiple personalities. I liked the first two volumes of X-Men: Legacy where he starred, following the death of Xavier in AvX. I dug that he had to subdue his inner demons in order to obtain their powers in the real world. Also, I'm not bothered that David doesn't have the hair that goes up seemingly forever.

I'll actually be very upset if David indeed doesn't have multiple personality disorder, and I'm affraid this will actually turn out to be true. 

 

The hope I have left is that, before leaving his body, Shadow King might "unlock" some personality David has deep in his mind. Well we've seen at least a new personality (?), if we can call it that, of David, but with british accent.

 

Let's hope.

[Lantern7]

I got this sketch of David/Legion from Damion Scott in 2014. I figured his style and that hair was a good mix.

[PatternRec]

10 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I got this sketch of David/Legion from Damion Scott in 2014. I figured his style and that hair was a good mix.

Nice!