All Episodes Talk: Grunt

[questionasker]

Hey! I just found this site and I'm hoping that you enthusiasts can help to identify what episode a scene I remember can be found in. 

 

The scene I'm looking for is from season 7 I think (because Mark is dressed in his goth if I'm recalling correctly). It's a quick scene in passing where the 3 boys walk thru the front door and into the kitchen (or to their rooms, I can't remember). It's a super moody teenager joke/scece where Mark is dressed all in black, Brad is in his soccer gear and Randy has hair that looks like it's been wind-blown. I think it comes as Jill is sitting at the dining table and talking to Tim about either not wanting more kids, or how tough having teenagers is...I seem to remember it's something that illustrates whatever point she was trying to make about teenagers being weird.

 

I've skimmed thru the season 7 episodes that are available on YouTube and I just can't seem to find it. Am I remembering wrong and Mark isn't goth and it's when brad has his half shaved half pony tail hairdo? Any help would be appreciated, it's driving me crazy!!!

[readster]

4 hours ago, questionasker said:

Hey! I just found this site and I'm hoping that you enthusiasts can help to identify what episode a scene I remember can be found in. 

 

The scene I'm looking for is from season 7 I think (because Mark is dressed in his goth if I'm recalling correctly). It's a quick scene in passing where the 3 boys walk thru the front door and into the kitchen (or to their rooms, I can't remember). It's a super moody teenager joke/scece where Mark is dressed all in black, Brad is in his soccer gear and Randy has hair that looks like it's been wind-blown. I think it comes as Jill is sitting at the dining table and talking to Tim about either not wanting more kids, or how tough having teenagers is...I seem to remember it's something that illustrates whatever point she was trying to make about teenagers being weird.

 

I've skimmed thru the season 7 episodes that are available on YouTube and I just can't seem to find it. Am I remembering wrong and Mark isn't goth and it's when brad has his half shaved half pony tail hairdo? Any help would be appreciated, it's driving me crazy!!!

You are thinking of season 5 in Mr. WIlson's Opus when Wilson had to direct Randy's play of Romeo and Juliet because Randy's director gave birth earlier than expected. As for the season 7 episode you are thinking of The Niece when Tim has to take care of his niece, Grace and Wilson doesn't have any time for Tim to give advice. Jill tells Tim it's a bit late to have any more kids and then you add in when all the boys are going out and Mark is having dark hair along with his full goth look. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 6:02 AM, readster said:

Those are really good points, a scene between Marty and Jeff would have been nice. Even as far as: "Take advice from your big brother who has been there twice. There will be better days." Or something to that effect. I would have enjoyed if they would have kept Katie and Sloane in continuity instead of just deciding to forget that nothing happened with the discussion in season 3. I do believe when you think about it, having the upbringing that happened in the Patterson home and the death in the Taylor home did effect how all the children went. The Patterson home was not getting attached to things because you will most likely leave in no time. Not talking about things and being very opinionated with each other like Lillian. However, always believing that if they didn't take control of the world it would fly apart like Fred's view was.  In the Taylor Home you have a divide of world views. You have one son who got to know his father, but then losing him in the middle of high school (Jeff would have graduated in 67 if Tim graduated in 71, Jill in 73). You have the youngest who never really knew his father, and wasn't there to see his hard work and determination. You have the middle two who did know, but really were raised by a single mother most of their lives. They never really knew what a adult relationship could be. Similar to when we met Jeff for the first time and he commented on how Brad, Randy and Mark acted since Tim when face first into the banister. Tim's counter should be been: "Oh really? Mr. Divorced twice, no kids and 80 jobs?" 

It would have been nice to see a scene like that between Jeff and Marty, along with probably joking from Jeff that one divorce is nothing. Tim really should have countered with that to Jeff! Its so great and so Tim. I wish they had kept Katie and Sloane it would have been nice to have a niece on Jill's side.  Losing Carol doesn't bother me at all since you could assume Carrie is short for Carol.  I do like that both sets of families had their problems and it effected how the kids ended up as adults. Its not surprising Jill and her sisters ended up so opinionated or 2 were divorced, 2 never married and 1 ends up married but she always has to be in charged, always has to be right and wants things done her way. I wonder if Lillian ever realized that but I don't think so. She seems really surprised that Jill was hurt by not talking about things and not showing their feelings because God forbid their father have to deal with anything. That might not be surprising though if Lillian grew up in a similar household or simply because she grew up in the era where you didn't talk about feelings. Lillian told Jillian when she went through hysterectomy that when she went through hers they didn't talk about those things. It was probably normal for her. Tim and his brothers each went through the same thing but at different ages which effected them differently. They call could use a decent therapist. Watching Tim and Gracie playing together it was so cute. I really liked Tim realizing how fun it was and wonder what they missed by not having a daughter. Watching Its a Drag, I'm surprised that Jill ended up being the one who did drugs in the past and not Tim. It seems like he would have tried them in college when he was partying, drinking and other stuff.   

[readster]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 Watching Its a Drag, I'm surprised that Jill ended up being the one who did drugs in the past and not Tim. It seems like he would have tried them in college when he was partying, drinking and other stuff.   

Very true, but at the same time when we first met Fred Patterson in season 3, Jill admitted to going to a political rally. Something he didn't want to hear. I think at that point, Tim Allen had used enough of his past with the show. I don't think he wanted to bring in his own drug and jail time into the show. Plus, at that point, the general public knew about Tim Allen's past. I'm just surprise they didn't have Mark have a bought with it too. Going into goth like that, not shocking if he was tempted at some point with drugs. Something that was always a missed point. They could have also brought in Mark going Goth with the death of his grandfather. Having it affect him in that way too. 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, readster said:

Very true, but at the same time when we first met Fred Patterson in season 3, Jill admitted to going to a political rally. Something he didn't want to hear. I think at that point, Tim Allen had used enough of his past with the show. I don't think he wanted to bring in his own drug and jail time into the show. Plus, at that point, the general public knew about Tim Allen's past. I'm just surprise they didn't have Mark have a bought with it too. Going into goth like that, not shocking if he was tempted at some point with drugs. Something that was always a missed point. They could have also brought in Mark going Goth with the death of his grandfather. Having it affect him in that way too. 

That's true and surprising that neither of Jill's parents ever brought that up again to her. Fred doesn't seem the type to let his daughter getting arrested for drugs go. Lillian maybe if she just decided to pretend it didn't happen. If Tim hadn't mentioned that Jill's family wouldn't speak to her I'd just assume her parents never found out (her sisters I wouldn't be surprised if they knew at least Robin or Carrie). That's probably why Tim didn't end up doing drugs too even though it would fit with his character or they just thought it would be more surprising if it was Jill to have done drugs and not Tim. I'm surprised that they didn't end up giving Mark the drug storyline I know a lot of people assumed goths were doing drugs although I'm not sure how much that was the case. Most goths I knew weren't. I'm surprised they didn't start interrogating Mark like they did with Randy although that could be because Randy happened into the kitchen at the time. I can see Brad being one to try drugs but being the sports jock its surprising it didn't end up being steroids. I did like Jill and Tim both remarking on now being the other side the parents not wanting their kids doing drugs and immediately hoping it was Ronnie. I'm not sure why Al thinks he could never run for political office because his fingerprints were now on the pot bag. It was the 90s Al that would probably get you elected.    

Edited September 5, 2018 by andromeda331

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, readster said:

They could have also brought in Mark going Goth with the death of his grandfather. Having it affect him in that way too. 

I wish they had done more after Taps to how the death of Fred effected everyone then just the one episode.  That could have started Mark going Goth, Randy's need to question everything, maybe something different with Brad. How it effected Jill. She should have been going through things. Except for the Christmas episode and Jill bringing it up during her therapy session they never really mention it again. Jill mentions she's helping her mother through it over the phone. That would have been nice to see. Even if they just showed Jill calling her mother more often after that episode.  Did they go back to Texas to spend the summer or part of it with Lillian? 

[readster]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I wish they had done more after Taps to how the death of Fred effected everyone then just the one episode.  That could have started Mark going Goth, Randy's need to question everything, maybe something different with Brad. How it effected Jill. She should have been going through things. Except for the Christmas episode and Jill bringing it up during her therapy session they never really mention it again. Jill mentions she's helping her mother through it over the phone. That would have been nice to see. Even if they just showed Jill calling her mother more often after that episode.  Did they go back to Texas to spend the summer or part of it with Lillian? 

Yes, I think we could have seen more of that happening. Even with more seeing how Tim dealt with the death of a parent as an adult than he did as a kid. The boys were more in tune with him, Jeff and even Rick being the same age as Brad, Randy and Mark and even them dealing with in the same way as they did. Same with the the twins in how Fred bounced them on his knee with a twinkle in his eye like he did with Aunt Jill many years ago. They were barely 4 when Fred died. They have almost no memories of him similar to Marty. As said, when you look at a series after 20 years being on TV. Verses the writers who didn't think that deeply on it at the time. 

[KLovestoShop]

Right now I'm watching the 2 episodes where Jill had her hysterectomy.  While I know going through that is difficult, Jill was acting like such a bitch despite everyone trying to help her, all with good intentions.  I had a total hysterectomy when I was 34, and I never acted like she did.  And quite a few of my friends and family members had early hysterectomies, and they didn't behave that way, and two of them had the procedure because they had cancer.  Jill treated Tim and her mom like crap, and they were only trying to be supportive and loving.  It is an emotional ride, but the writing for this was over the top, imho.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

Right now I'm watching the 2 episodes where Jill had her hysterectomy.  While I know going through that is difficult, Jill was acting like such a bitch despite everyone trying to help her, all with good intentions.  I had a total hysterectomy when I was 34, and I never acted like she did.  And quite a few of my friends and family members had early hysterectomies, and they didn't behave that way, and two of them had the procedure because they had cancer.  Jill treated Tim and her mom like crap, and they were only trying to be supportive and loving.  It is an emotional ride, but the writing for this was over the top, imho.

I wondered about that I only knew one person who had a hysterectomy and she never acted like that.  But she's the only one I knew. I agree Jill was acting like a bitch. Tim and her mother were being so helpful and trying so hard and she just kept yelling at them and getting mad. Flipping out because Tim gave her milk? I love his response to her are you trying to kill me? "No, but I can see how you'd think that". I do love when Lillian had enough and said something. Jill tries to blow her off but her mother isn't having any of that.  

[andromeda331]

21 hours ago, readster said:

Yes, I think we could have seen more of that happening. Even with more seeing how Tim dealt with the death of a parent as an adult than he did as a kid. The boys were more in tune with him, Jeff and even Rick being the same age as Brad, Randy and Mark and even them dealing with in the same way as they did. Same with the the twins in how Fred bounced them on his knee with a twinkle in his eye like he did with Aunt Jill many years ago. They were barely 4 when Fred died. They have almost no memories of him similar to Marty. As said, when you look at a series after 20 years being on TV. Verses the writers who didn't think that deeply on it at the time. 

It would have been really great to see that. How does Tim deal with it too? We saw his reaction to one of his friends having a heart attack but what about his father-in-law dying from one? That should have been root of his "mid life" crisis instead of everyone moving on and doing new things. Freaking out because of how short life is and trying to do more things and try new things before its too late. He also knows how it was handled after his father died and how his brothers each turned out. He could be worried his sons will be effected as much as his brothers and he was and trying to make sure they aren't. Worried about Jill. Jill really should have been going through something or a lot of things. Its never easy to lose a parent and it was sudden. Does she decided to speed up her college classes to be done while she has the time or does she decided to take a break unable to get the energy to do so or trying to spend as much time with her kids because she's scared about how much time they have left?  She should be more emotional at things. It would have been a nice touch to have them remember Fred spending time with the twins. It was such a cute scene it would have been nice if Claire or Gracie said something in season eight when they were older.  Marty giving his condolences to Jill the next time he saw her. Maybe Marty and Tim talking about how long Fred lived compared to their own father and all that he missed. I know writers don't always think about things during the show time. We have more time to think about it. Sometimes its surprising they don't think about it. Through the series the death of Tim's father was talked about a lot. How much it effected Tim and his entire family. How it still effected them decades later. You'd think when they chose to kill of Jill's father they'd do something similar. Show how it effected everyone and in the months that followed. Whether it was a couple episodes after Taps or a longer arc. Its seems like they would have gone there but they didn't.

[readster]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It would have been really great to see that.  Through the series the death of Tim's father was talked about a lot. How much it effected Tim and his entire family. How it still effected them decades later. You'd think when they chose to kill of Jill's father they'd do something similar. Show how it effected everyone and in the months that followed. Whether it was a couple episodes after Taps or a longer arc. Its seems like they would have gone there but they didn't.

How true, I think of Cheers as an example. When Shelly Long decided to leave the show early in season 5. They wanted to deal with the aftermath and not have it done in a few episodes. When season 6 starts, everyone is rebuilding after the finale. Sam has to now work as a regular bar tender at Cheers under a corporation. The bar has been changed so much as a result, everyone has to learn how to deal with it. Norm is forced to take a job from Becky after he once again loses his accountant job. Carla no longer has an excuse to take her anger out on Diane, Cliff's mother has sold the house off, Fraiser is dealing with so much change too. The Bar war happens between Cheers and the other bar that lasts the rest of the series, and it wasn't resolved in a couple of episodes. In fact, it takes almost two years to bring it back to Sam getting the bar back and everyone finding a new niche in life and Rebecca now seen on even ground with everyone. It was thought out and the writers went with what seemed to be natural. 

  On Home Improvement, all of a sudden its: Tim feels everyone is moving on but himself and he goes into mid life. Mark wants to be something different so he goes black to goth. Randy gets very questionable about faith and religion and so forth. There doesn't seem to be a lot of real triggers for it. You and I made good arguments that Mark and Randy's changes could have stemmed from Fred dying. Same with Tim. Jill basically deals with her father's death in two episodes. The first when she is talking to a shrink to meet her requirements and basically says: "Dad's gone? Now what?" Then Lillian having her new boyfriend and doing all the things she loved to do, but Fred hated and still adjusting and that's about it. If anyone's stories made the most sense that season or natural it was Brad's stories and Randy and Lauren in a relationship. Things started and then just got dropped, Tim's was because he gave up NASA to help Mark and Mark drops it to be more attractive, but when a girl he was hopeful with just dumps him, he goes back to being goth and yet his excuse: "No one gets me." Then start the next season and everyone is just hunky dory. Huh? More of: "Well, we got bored or wrote ourselves in a corner, so let's just drop the stories." 

[andromeda331]

59 minutes ago, readster said:

How true, I think of Cheers as an example. When Shelly Long decided to leave the show early in season 5. They wanted to deal with the aftermath and not have it done in a few episodes. When season 6 starts, everyone is rebuilding after the finale. Sam has to now work as a regular bar tender at Cheers under a corporation. The bar has been changed so much as a result, everyone has to learn how to deal with it. Norm is forced to take a job from Becky after he once again loses his accountant job. Carla no longer has an excuse to take her anger out on Diane, Cliff's mother has sold the house off, Fraiser is dealing with so much change too. The Bar war happens between Cheers and the other bar that lasts the rest of the series, and it wasn't resolved in a couple of episodes. In fact, it takes almost two years to bring it back to Sam getting the bar back and everyone finding a new niche in life and Rebecca now seen on even ground with everyone. It was thought out and the writers went with what seemed to be natural. 

They did a real good job with that. It makes sense. When a character leaves or dies there should be an effect whether its just for a few episodes or longer. Diane leaving would effect almost everyone. Sam of course being the one left at the alter. His reaction makes sense he sold the bar and left town. It turned out to be a rash decision but at the time he made it he probably didn't think he'd be back. There's fall out for everyone from his decision to sell the bar. Carla didn't have an excuse to take out her anger but she also didn't have Sam as her boss anymore who would never fire her. It takes awhile for Rebecca to adjust to the new group which makes sense she's new and really didn't see Cheers as anything more then just a job as she moved or on with her career.  It really shook things up and it worked. It gave them new material.     

Quote

  On Home Improvement, all of a sudden its: Tim feels everyone is moving on but himself and he goes into mid life. Mark wants to be something different so he goes black to goth. Randy gets very questionable about faith and religion and so forth. There doesn't seem to be a lot of real triggers for it. You and I made good arguments that Mark and Randy's changes could have stemmed from Fred dying. Same with Tim. Jill basically deals with her father's death in two episodes. The first when she is talking to a shrink to meet her requirements and basically says: "Dad's gone? Now what?" Then Lillian having her new boyfriend and doing all the things she loved to do, but Fred hated and still adjusting and that's about it. If anyone's stories made the most sense that season or natural it was Brad's stories and Randy and Lauren in a relationship. Things started and then just got dropped, Tim's was because he gave up NASA to help Mark and Mark drops it to be more attractive, but when a girl he was hopeful with just dumps him, he goes back to being goth and yet his excuse: "No one gets me." Then start the next season and everyone is just hunky dory. Huh? More of: "Well, we got bored or wrote ourselves in a corner, so let's just drop the stories." 

That's exactly how it is! All of the sudden characters are acting differently and they don't really explain why. Just kind of vague answers. Why wouldn't you tie it back to Fred's death? It makes perfect sense. The episode Taps is the second to last of season 6, suddenly in season 7 opens with Mark in black, Randy questioning things and Tim acting crazy. You'd think that would be why. When Jill and Wilson are talking about Tim's behavior it seems so obvious they should realize it stems from Fred's death. They could have spent season seven doing just that maybe ending the season with them having worked it out and moving on. It shouldn't have just been at Jill's therapy season and Christmas.  

[readster]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

They did a real good job with that. It makes sense. When a character leaves or dies there should be an effect whether its just for a few episodes or longer. Diane leaving would effect almost everyone. Sam of course being the one left at the alter. His reaction makes sense he sold the bar and left town. It turned out to be a rash decision but at the time he made it he probably didn't think he'd be back. There's fall out for everyone from his decision to sell the bar. Carla didn't have an excuse to take out her anger but she also didn't have Sam as her boss anymore who would never fire her. It takes awhile for Rebecca to adjust to the new group which makes sense she's new and really didn't see Cheers as anything more then just a job as she moved or on with her career.  It really shook things up and it worked. It gave them new material.     

That's exactly how it is! All of the sudden characters are acting differently and they don't really explain why. Just kind of vague answers. Why wouldn't you tie it back to Fred's death? It makes perfect sense. The episode Taps is the second to last of season 6, suddenly in season 7 opens with Mark in black, Randy questioning things and Tim acting crazy. You'd think that would be why. When Jill and Wilson are talking about Tim's behavior it seems so obvious they should realize it stems from Fred's death. They could have spent season seven doing just that maybe ending the season with them having worked it out and moving on. It shouldn't have just been at Jill's therapy season and Christmas.  

Right, season 7 could have been spent on that. Even going with Mark saying: "Nothing makes sense anymore." "All of a sudden I'm a teen, grandpa is gone, we barely see grandma, I don't know who are my friends anymore or who likes me or really what school is about now." "I just feel there and not doing anything, I thought trying something drastic would make sense." I want to quote from Degressi the Next Generation, when Abby went goth and it was just for those reasons. No one got it and then when she got a wake up call that maybe being completely drastic wasn't the way to go. She starts to snap out of it, but it doesn't happen in one episode. It takes the last few episodes and when the new season starts, she has a balance of things now. Same goes with Tim, it could have been: "I've out lived my father and my father-in-law." "Who is Tim Taylor at 43?" "I don't know?" That would make more sense, I felt they spent all this time with with the stories and then looked like they had a decent progression, but left so much out and then dropped it. Same goes with Randy, all of a sudden he has this talk with an elderly woman that he bonds with and then when she takes a turn for the worst, he still feels way too confuse. They could have had it where Randy goes: "First Grandpa dies and now Diane is on death's door. Where is God in all of this?" "Why do people have to die?" "I almost thought I was going to die last year." Yet, they didn't do that then in season 8, it's all about getting Randy off the show. It wasn't really good writing or showed the writers either didn't know what to do with the stories or wrote themselves in a corner that had  no resolution, so just easier to just say they got better over the summer break. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 7:20 AM, readster said:

Right, season 7 could have been spent on that. Even going with Mark saying: "Nothing makes sense anymore." "All of a sudden I'm a teen, grandpa is gone, we barely see grandma, I don't know who are my friends anymore or who likes me or really what school is about now." "I just feel there and not doing anything, I thought trying something drastic would make sense." I want to quote from Degressi the Next Generation, when Abby went goth and it was just for those reasons. No one got it and then when she got a wake up call that maybe being completely drastic wasn't the way to go. She starts to snap out of it, but it doesn't happen in one episode. It takes the last few episodes and when the new season starts, she has a balance of things now. Same goes with Tim, it could have been: "I've out lived my father and my father-in-law." "Who is Tim Taylor at 43?" "I don't know?" That would make more sense, I felt they spent all this time with with the stories and then looked like they had a decent progression, but left so much out and then dropped it. Same goes with Randy, all of a sudden he has this talk with an elderly woman that he bonds with and then when she takes a turn for the worst, he still feels way too confuse. They could have had it where Randy goes: "First Grandpa dies and now Diane is on death's door. Where is God in all of this?" "Why do people have to die?" "I almost thought I was going to die last year." Yet, they didn't do that then in season 8, it's all about getting Randy off the show. It wasn't really good writing or showed the writers either didn't know what to do with the stories or wrote themselves in a corner that had  no resolution, so just easier to just say they got better over the summer break. 

They really could have done that. They had a perfect reason for all these changes and it really would have fit well. You could see why Mark would suddenly think nothing makes sense anymore and start dressing in black. Becoming interest in Goth after a death isn't an uncommon way to go especially for teens. Maybe its his way of dealing with the loss or trying to deal with it and understand it.  Why Randy would suddenly start questioning things his grandfather died suddenly and the year before he could have ended up with cancer is also a very good point and reason. He went to the doctor one day and spent the next worrying he had cancer and might die. Then his grandfather does die and in his case it was sudden. It make sense that he would start to question everything. Religion, faith, the government, everything. He too is trying to understand and make sense of everything. For him and Mark nothing makes any sense anymore.  Tim suddenly wanting to switch careers and move he mentioned when he wanted to by the lodge that they always talked about doing that when they retired. Well, going by the show Fred retired in season four or around there because it was mentioned in the Christmas episode when he and Lillian came for Christmas. He died two seasons later. Its not much of stretch for Tim to realize that could happen to him or Jill and they really wouldn't have time to do all the things they wanted to do when they retired.  He also might think of how old he is compared to how old Fred was. Maybe thirty years old? That's not a lot of time when you really think about it which he probably has been. He wants to do things now before its too late. That makes so much more sense then the vague reasons they give us as for why those three are acting different.  It really wasn't a bad idea way to go with the three and started out interesting. Jill and Brad should have still had issues too. But then like you said they got bored or didn't know what else to do so they dropped it all. They just stopped. They could have had all three starting out where they were and spend the first half of season 7 dealing with that and either realize it halfway through or have it acknowledged at some point then start working the issues out ending the season with them in a much better place.  

[andromeda331]

I know I keep bring this up but Jill drives me crazy. Last night I watched the episode with her upset that Brad wants to skip college to go play for England. It drives me crazy that she doesn't see what a huge opportunity it is for Brad and how insane it is to talk him out of it. Just a couple episodes after getting mad at Tim for talking Randy out of the same thing. She does it to Brad. Soccer is huge in England! Far bigger then it is here. But she thinks nope Brad needs to go to college. Well, Jill, what happens when he doesn't get picked for a national team afterwards? What if he doesn't make the USA team? There really isn't anything else which is why most end up going to Europe anyway to play and jump at the chance Brad had.  Opportunities like that don't come around a lot and soccer isn't as big here is as it there. He can always go to college after soccer. In the end Brad choses UCLA and Jill shows zero sign of realize what she just did to Brad. There's Jill's horrible reaction to her sister dating Jeff. There at least she realizes she's sounding judgmental like her father. But then doesn't do anything with it. She's back to being judgmental in the next episode but about Trudy giving Al the expensive car. Why does she care so much? Why is she so upset? She's not in the relationship. No Trudy must have psychological issues! Right because rich people never do things like that. Al ends up talking to Trudy and he made more sense then she did. They were new into the relationship and he worried it would put pressure on the relationship.   

[readster]

14 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I know I keep bring this up but Jill drives me crazy. Last night I watched the episode with her upset that Brad wants to skip college to go play for England. It drives me crazy that she doesn't see what a huge opportunity it is for Brad and how insane it is to talk him out of it. Just a couple episodes after getting mad at Tim for talking Randy out of the same thing. She does it to Brad. Soccer is huge in England! Far bigger then it is here. But she thinks nope Brad needs to go to college. Well, Jill, what happens when he doesn't get picked for a national team afterwards? What if he doesn't make the USA team? There really isn't anything else which is why most end up going to Europe anyway to play and jump at the chance Brad had.  Opportunities like that don't come around a lot and soccer isn't as big here is as it there. He can always go to college after soccer. In the end Brad choses UCLA and Jill shows zero sign of realize what she just did to Brad. There's Jill's horrible reaction to her sister dating Jeff. There at least she realizes she's sounding judgmental like her father. But then doesn't do anything with it. She's back to being judgmental in the next episode but about Trudy giving Al the expensive car. Why does she care so much? Why is she so upset? She's not in the relationship. No Trudy must have psychological issues! Right because rich people never do things like that. Al ends up talking to Trudy and he made more sense then she did. They were new into the relationship and he worried it would put pressure on the relationship.   

I agree and I also hate when Jill yells at Tim about: "Don't go interfering with my relationship with MY son!" I wanted to go: "When is Randy just YOUR son!" Yes, having the opportunity to go do relief work and study in Costa Rica was a once in a life time opportunity. However, so was Brad's. Brad even says: "How is this different than letting Randy go to Central America?" Jill's argument about: "It was for school." Brad perfectly says, "school will still be there." Yet, Jill won't hear it. Also, you hear the inconsistencies with Jill, Wilson and the writers during these episodes with Jill's schooling. One episode she is finishing up her PhD. The next, they are saying she is still getting a Masters. Another time they say thesis, the other time they say dissertation. For someone who is so hell bent on her kids going to college, even saying how Tim can't buy his old car back because: "It will be too much MONEY, and get all three boys to college." Yet, they are on Brad and even Randy on scholarships and so forth. There is no even point, Jill comes across as saying she wants to be open, but it's her way or the high way. Even when we get Trudy's back story on why her family has so much money. Jill judges her on that too, it wasn't like she had a choice and she is pretty much using the money to have a comfortable life and have some fun in the process. Instead, Jill acts like Trudy is throwing money out like she's some addict. 

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, readster said:

I agree and I also hate when Jill yells at Tim about: "Don't go interfering with my relationship with MY son!" I wanted to go: "When is Randy just YOUR son!" Yes, having the opportunity to go do relief work and study in Costa Rica was a once in a life time opportunity. However, so was Brad's. Brad even says: "How is this different than letting Randy go to Central America?" Jill's argument about: "It was for school." Brad perfectly says, "school will still be there." Yet, Jill won't hear it. 

So do I. Ah he's not your son Jill. He's yours and Tim's. I love that Brad does ask those questions because it really is the exact same thing. A once in a lifetime opportunity. There's no reason why Brad can't go to college after soccer or even during soccer in the off season or something. He'd be making money that he could use to pay for college if he choses to go. So many athletes are able to spiral soccer career into more endorsements, businesses or restaurants. Or Brad could get involved other things. But Jill refuses to listen and somehow doesn't realize the difference. How does she not? Does she never listen to any of the sports talk in her house? She has no idea the difference between a soccer career in the US and one in England? If you know your kid's dream is to play pro soccer how do you not know his chances at better in England? Brad really should have been mad at that and why can't Tim point out that Brad will end up resenting them for not letting him have that opportunity. Which he really should. His reasons are almost exactly the same as Randy but he has to be the one to pass it up. Then getting mad at Tim because Tim couldn't say that he wouldn't do the same thing if he had a chance to skip college and go straight to Tool Time. He's right, he would have done exactly that. Getting mad at Tim earlier for thinking it was a great idea. It was Jill. At least one of Brad's parents is thinking of his future and what's better for him and its not Jill. Then at the end of the episode her remark about how they almost ended up with another kid leaving the country. Good job Jill, yes focus on that. Who cares you just screwed your son out of lifetime opportunity. But hey as long as your happy and you get what you want.

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Also, you hear the inconsistencies with Jill, Wilson and the writers during these episodes with Jill's schooling. One episode she is finishing up her PhD. The next, they are saying she is still getting a Masters. Another time they say thesis, the other time they say dissertation. For someone who is so hell bent on her kids going to college, even saying how Tim can't buy his old car back because: "It will be too much MONEY, and get all three boys to college." Yet, they are on Brad and even Randy on scholarships and so forth. There is no even point, Jill comes across as saying she wants to be open, but it's her way or the high way. Even when we get Trudy's back story on why her family has so much money. Jill judges her on that too, it wasn't like she had a choice and she is pretty much using the money to have a comfortable life and have some fun in the process. Instead, Jill acts like Trudy is throwing money out like she's some addict. 

They really are. They flip flop all of the time. She's getting her PH.D nope now its a masters, oops no now its a dissertation, oh now she's a student therapist, no now she's taking therapy. They are all over the board. All the time she's complaining about money even though they clearly don't have a problem with money as Tim's been able to support them all, his car hobbies, their trips and ALL of her classes through Tool Time. She shows zero signs of trying to finish early so she can go out, get a job and finally start getting pad. We never see them have to cut down or back on anything unless its something Tim wants. Then complains about putting their kids through college. First of all Brad's chance to play in England would mean he could save up money and pay for college himself so they wouldn't need to worry about it. There's also a really good chance Randy will get scholarships too given his grades, taking high school classes sooner, his volunteer work and spending a year in Costa Rica. So Mark is really the only unknown and that could change since the series ends before he gets into high school. She never has a problem blowing money on stuff so why is she complaining? Oh, right its something that someone else wants. Your right it really is her way or the highway. She refuses to let anyone else get what they want or listen to anyone else's side. She's right and that's all there is too it. No matter how wrong she is or trying to diagnosis Trudy who she only met ONCE because JILL decides she has a problem. Because JILL has a problem with Trudy's decision to give Al a car. Which was none of her business. Nope, she decides clearly Trudy has a problem. No, Jill you have a problem. Trudy is a really nice and generous woman. Its not uncommon for rich people to give gifts like that to people. That's normal for them. But she does that all the time. Jill meets people and judges everyone she meets. If they don't meet her high and impossible standards she immediately decides THEY must have a problem. 

[readster]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

 

They really are. They flip flop all of the time. She's getting her PH.D nope now its a masters, oops no now its a dissertation, oh now she's a student therapist, no now she's taking therapy. They are all over the board. All the time she's complaining about money even though they clearly don't have a problem with money as Tim's been able to support them all, his car hobbies, their trips and ALL of her classes through Tool Time. She shows zero signs of trying to finish early so she can go out, get a job and finally start getting pad. We never see them have to cut down or back on anything unless its something Tim wants. Then complains about putting their kids through college. First of all Brad's chance to play in England would mean he could save up money and pay for college himself so they wouldn't need to worry about it. There's also a really good chance Randy will get scholarships too given his grades, taking high school classes sooner, his volunteer work and spending a year in Costa Rica. So Mark is really the only unknown and that could change since the series ends before he gets into high school. She never has a problem blowing money on stuff so why is she complaining? Oh, right its something that someone else wants. Your right it really is her way or the highway. She refuses to let anyone else get what they want or listen to anyone else's side. She's right and that's all there is too it. No matter how wrong she is or trying to diagnosis Trudy who she only met ONCE because JILL decides she has a problem. Because JILL has a problem with Trudy's decision to give Al a car. Which was none of her business. Nope, she decides clearly Trudy has a problem. No, Jill you have a problem. Trudy is a really nice and generous woman. Its not uncommon for rich people to give gifts like that to people. That's normal for them. But she does that all the time. Jill meets people and judges everyone she meets. If they don't meet her high and impossible standards she immediately decides THEY must have a problem. 

The only time Jill was close to a call was Dana and Bert, because Bert really did explain it all to Jill in the garage in that episode. "Her father was a vet, so she had to be one." "She was an only child, so we have only one child." "Forget what I wanted." While Jill didn't even meet Dana, it was about Jill having what she wanted. She had someone who wanted to spill their guts to her and she come in and be the hero. We saw it a bit with Trudy, yes, Trudy faked her ID to meet Al, when all she had to do was buy tickets or just go on with her sister and she could have met Al, instead of making it some drama show for her. However, as time went on, Trudy was a very down to Earth woman who just wanted to get marry, start a family and be loved for her and not her money. Goes back to how Tim just HAD to know who Jill was seeing in her session because he over heard Jill, Tim couldn't just get that Jill can't talk about those things. What would happen if not only are they worried that Jill is going to blab her sessions, but Tim just HAS to know who she is seeing in her offices? That has Tim coming off as the bad guy too. Of course, another thing is when Heidi says she didn't just go and sleep with Tim. I wanted to go: "You were staying with Al, that would have made more sense." Of course still makes no sense that Wendy was still so hung up on him. I mean it happened almost a year and she had left Channel 8 long afterwards. It was like Ian, or Randal, they think these people were just going to go all over them, because they had it in their heads? 

  Also, I notice as time went on in season 8, Mark was starting to do things like both Tim and Jill. He had to get his camera in everyone's lives. Anyone else would have gotten to the point they would have been: "Mark, if you put that thing in my face again, you are getting an exclusive with it up your ass!" 

[andromeda331]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 7:03 PM, readster said:

The only time Jill was close to a call was Dana and Bert, because Bert really did explain it all to Jill in the garage in that episode. "Her father was a vet, so she had to be one." "She was an only child, so we have only one child." "Forget what I wanted." While Jill didn't even meet Dana, it was about Jill having what she wanted. She had someone who wanted to spill their guts to her and she come in and be the hero. We saw it a bit with Trudy, yes, Trudy faked her ID to meet Al, when all she had to do was buy tickets or just go on with her sister and she could have met Al, instead of making it some drama show for her. However, as time went on, Trudy was a very down to Earth woman who just wanted to get marry, start a family and be loved for her and not her money. Goes back to how Tim just HAD to know who Jill was seeing in her session because he over heard Jill, Tim couldn't just get that Jill can't talk about those things. What would happen if not only are they worried that Jill is going to blab her sessions, but Tim just HAS to know who she is seeing in her offices? That has Tim coming off as the bad guy too. Of course, another thing is when Heidi says she didn't just go and sleep with Tim. I wanted to go: "You were staying with Al, that would have made more sense." Of course still makes no sense that Wendy was still so hung up on him. I mean it happened almost a year and she had left Channel 8 long afterwards. It was like Ian, or Randal, they think these people were just going to go all over them, because they had it in their heads? 

  Also, I notice as time went on in season 8, Mark was starting to do things like both Tim and Jill. He had to get his camera in everyone's lives. Anyone else would have gotten to the point they would have been: "Mark, if you put that thing in my face again, you are getting an exclusive with it up your ass!" 

Yes, that was the only time Jill was close correctly diagnosing someone even though it was only off what Bert said and she really should have talked to both and asked more questions. But she did sound right about Dana. But it had nothing to do with wanting to help Bert and Dana, it was all because she wanted to be the hero. She was on high after getting an A, was feeling smug about that and wanted to fix someone to feel even more smug.  All the other times she just comes up with insane theories. Like with Trudy after meeting her once. Yes, she lied to meet Al when she didn't have to but its not really a sign of problems or mark against her a lots of people try to come up with a reason or excuse to meet someone they like. But after meeting her once at Trudy's house Jill decides Trudy clearly has a problem. That she has issues and suffering from something when clearly she's not. She's a nice woman who gave Al the car that he liked. Its not uncommon for rich people to give really nice gifts. To them that's normal. If she had problem why was she so accepting of Al's gift? She clearly loved what he gave her. She thought he would love the car. The one with Heidi's husband was just all wrong. Why did Jill wait until she was already home to make the call? Why not call where she was to tell the doctor she needed to hand Wendy off to someone else? She knows Tim's schedule he could come in at any minute and of course is going to want to know who it was. He should have backed off when Jill told him she couldn't tell him and she never should have told him. They were both wrong there. Then Jill tells Tim he needs to talk to Heidi and when he doesn't want to do that she tells him he needs to talk to Scott. What and say out of blue I know your cheating on your wife? Jill does know her only job is to counsel Wendy. She's not allowed to after hearing a patient's problem like having an affair immediately go or send her husband to talk to the man she's cheating or his wife. That's not how it works. What is she going to try and do that with every patient? She's going to get her license revoked and sued. Tim should have said nothing at dinner and if he couldn't control himself then they should have canceled on dinner with Heidi and Scott. But no Tim says something and before you know it poor Heidi hears about it all at a restaurant from her boss. How absolutely humiliating. When Tim and Jill get home neither of them really act like they are sorry for what happened. Jill goes to talk to Wilson who lists all the more ways her revealing confidential information could have effected more people. Her teacher could have lost her license, the school could have gotten sued and all Jill cares about is that he's not making her feel better. Because you shouldn't Jill. What you did was illegal and does have huge consequences. That's exactly what could have happened if anyone found out what she did. She still doesn't seem to fell horrified or act like she's learned anything. What happens with the next patient. Is she going to go talk to who ever that person is having a problem with or send her husband to fix it? She makes a huge mistake and she gets away with it, without ever really coming off like she learned anything from it.

Wendy is just so weird. I'd understand if she's confused by her behavior or upset at about still having feelings for Scott. But she acts like the affair is still going on even though from her own words they only slept together once months ago. It doesn't sound like anything happened afterwards. But she's still talking like she's in love, they are together or going to be together. Also weird is why did Scott buy her an owl pin? When did he do that? From what Wendy said all that happened was they were working a lot of late hours together then one night went out to eat and one thing led to another. That was it. It wasn't a build up to anything or a relationship that had been growing until they slept together. It was months ago and Scott never left his wife. 

[readster]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Wendy is just so weird. I'd understand if she's confused by her behavior or upset at about still having feelings for Scott. But she acts like the affair is still going on even though from her own words they only slept together once months ago. It doesn't sound like anything happened afterwards. But she's still talking like she's in love, they are together or going to be together. Also weird is why did Scott buy her an owl pin? When did he do that? From what Wendy said all that happened was they were working a lot of late hours together then one night went out to eat and one thing led to another. That was it. It wasn't a build up to anything or a relationship that had been growing until they slept together. It was months ago and Scott never left his wife. 

Something that confused me was this during Heidi and Scott being separated that happened the previous season. Who was watching their daughter? If Scott was working late nights and only picking up their daughter when needed to be. How was Scott having time to go out and eat and then sleep with Wendy. Plus, Wendy comes off as a "Forethought Person". Someone, who puts a life in their heads after a situation happens to them. Like a one night stand with someone they have known or work with, or the death of a loved one. Which really paints Wendy like that and I also like to know when Scott bought her the owl and had one for Heidi too. Seems it was just a regular pin that looked nice and Wendy left the station months ago, so why would Scott give her one to begin with? Didn't make sense. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, readster said:

Something that confused me was this during Heidi and Scott being separated that happened the previous season. Who was watching their daughter? If Scott was working late nights and only picking up their daughter when needed to be. How was Scott having time to go out and eat and then sleep with Wendy. Plus, Wendy comes off as a "Forethought Person". Someone, who puts a life in their heads after a situation happens to them. Like a one night stand with someone they have known or work with, or the death of a loved one. Which really paints Wendy like that and I also like to know when Scott bought her the owl and had one for Heidi too. Seems it was just a regular pin that looked nice and Wendy left the station months ago, so why would Scott give her one to begin with? Didn't make sense. 

That's a good question. My guess is Heidi's mom because she was who Heidi or Jill mentioned was watching Amy so Heidi and Scott have their no kid night. If it was her I wonder how much she was watching Amy considering Scott was working nights and Heidi was over at Al's. Why would he by Wendy a pin? If it was a one night stand? It wasn't relationship. They worked together late for awhile. Why would he go buy a pin then? If it was after they slept together again why by a pin? If it was a one night stand and a mistake why did he buy her gift? It doesn't make any sense and it could lead Wendy to thinking it was more then just a one night stand. Forethought Person is possible Wendy certainly seem to think they were in a relationship despite all the signs that wasn't the case. They weren't dating or flirting. One night one thing led to another, if she thought the gift was a sign then it couldn't have lasted long. They didn't work together anymore, he never left his wife and he wasn't going too. Nothing else happened after one night of sex. They didn't date, spend more time together, or anything. Why would he buy the same pin for Heidi? Also, Heidi and Scott were only a part for two or three weeks (I think one said a couple weeks and another maybe Heidi said they were only separated for three weeks) when in that period did Scott sleep with Wendy? Was that the "wake up call" that sent him back to Heidi? He clearly made no plans to tell Heidi because he had months to do so and never did. I don't mind that they remained together but they should have had at least a few more episodes of them working on it. Cheating is a big deal and whether or not Heidi wants to stay or leave that's something you don't get over after a fight, crying and another fight.  

[readster]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Cheating is a big deal and whether or not Heidi wants to stay or leave that's something you don't get over after a fight, crying and another fight.  

I know what you mean, most shows either gloss over it or make a SUPER big deal about it. Rarely is it ever done in a progressive manner that makes sense. It's like when a teen has to deal with sex for the first time. You get either major over reaction or you get the: 'whatever" attitude towards it. With Brad you got the over hill reaction from Jill and Tim just not feeling comfortable. You had Randy where outside a quick shout out, nothing there. Mark, really didn't have much before the show ended. Then you get shows that completely ignore the fact like: Family Matters, Full House and even Last Man Standing. Same goes with how Al's relationship with Ilene just had to end after months of build up and then turn around barely the fourth episode in the new season and she's engaged again. I mean, I can relate about having a relationship come to an end and didn't make it to the chapel and then a year and a half later, got married and have been for almost a decade now. However, even I thought that made no sense. Not like Ilene was in her 60s and basically said: "Well, life is short." 

[Was-MArsenault]

On ‎08‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 5:51 PM, readster said:

Most likely true, Zachary Ty Bryan did play the saxophone regularly. Why it was brought in, he started playing more soccer in real life and while they wrote it into the show. He apparently still plays in a local Blues Band. He has 3 kids now, two are twins. 

How do you know all of this information though?

[Was-MArsenault]

On ‎08‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 5:51 PM, readster said:

Most likely true, Zachary Ty Bryan did play the saxophone regularly. Why it was brought in, he started playing more soccer in real life and while they wrote it into the show. He apparently still plays in a local Blues Band. He has 3 kids now, two are twins. 

Did he play basketball as well?

[readster]

1 minute ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Did he play basketball as well?

Not sure. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:18 PM, readster said:

I know what you mean, most shows either gloss over it or make a SUPER big deal about it. Rarely is it ever done in a progressive manner that makes sense. It's like when a teen has to deal with sex for the first time. You get either major over reaction or you get the: 'whatever" attitude towards it. With Brad you got the over hill reaction from Jill and Tim just not feeling comfortable. You had Randy where outside a quick shout out, nothing there. Mark, really didn't have much before the show ended. Then you get shows that completely ignore the fact like: Family Matters, Full House and even Last Man Standing. Same goes with how Al's relationship with Ilene just had to end after months of build up and then turn around barely the fourth episode in the new season and she's engaged again. I mean, I can relate about having a relationship come to an end and didn't make it to the chapel and then a year and a half later, got married and have been for almost a decade now. However, even I thought that made no sense. Not like Ilene was in her 60s and basically said: "Well, life is short." 

Yes, they really do. It would be much better if instead of glossing it over or going big they took the time to work it out. Even if its just a couple episodes. They do something big like Scott cheating on Heidi or killing off Jill's father but then don't really bother to do much with except for that episode. If your not going to follow through when you go big then they really shouldn't. They could have had Scott and Heidi split up and get back together with zero need for cheating. Jill's dad was a little harder because its just so big and would effect everyone and for awhile. I wish Mark had gotten a girlfriend or two by the end of the series. He was the only one who didn't. It was really fun watching Brad's and Randy's first crushes, nerves on the first date and seeing the different girls they dated. Maybe Mark could have dated a Goth girl. I also wish we'd had gotten a follow up to Brad deciding he was ready to have sex or maybe switch it up and have Randy be the first one and sleep with Lauren. Jill of course would have freaked out about it while Tim probably would be patting his son on the back. But maybe he'd change his mind after finding a box of condoms or something. I still can't believe for all Jill's freaking out that wasn't the first thing she thought of when Brad was dating Samantha. An older girl, in college, but she's not worried they might having sex? I'm surprised Tim didn't think about it either. No but instead of that which would make more sense Brad and Samantha decided instead they want to get married. That's just such a weird and out of the blue idea for Brad or really any teenage boy to think of. Sex yes, marriage? No. Ilene sure found someone else quick. I wish they had put a little more time before announcing that Iliene was getting married again so soon. I guess it does some time happens but it still seems really quick.   

5 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Did he play basketball as well?

 

5 hours ago, readster said:

Not sure. 

I'm not sure either. Zachary's imdb page mentions baseball and soccer. 

[readster]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I also wish we'd had gotten a follow up to Brad deciding he was ready to have sex or maybe switch it up and have Randy be the first one and sleep with Lauren. Jill of course would have freaked out about it while Tim probably would be patting his son on the back. But maybe he'd change his mind after finding a box of condoms or something. I still can't believe for all Jill's freaking out that wasn't the first thing she thought of when Brad was dating Samantha. An older girl, in college, but she's not worried they might having sex? I'm surprised Tim didn't think about it either. No but instead of that which would make more sense Brad and Samantha decided instead they want to get married. 

 

It reminds me when they had Kerry on the TV series, 8 Simple Rules where it was revealed she had sex for the first time while on a European Trip over the summer for the school. Everyone is shocked that it was her, the "good" and "smart" girl instead of Bridge who jumped first before thinking through things. It turns into a massive deal for two episodes. Then is forgotten again like it was nothing. Even when Kerry starts dating JTT character in the series, the talk of sex is never brought up again. I mean, when Brad hears about children, he starts freaking out. What did he think would happen after getting married? Sure, they could wait a few years, but really, he is marrying someone almost five years older than him and he just thought they get married and life would be flowers and butterflies. Of course, Noah did that himself a few years later when he married that woman who was 8 years older than him. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, readster said:

It reminds me when they had Kerry on the TV series, 8 Simple Rules where it was revealed she had sex for the first time while on a European Trip over the summer for the school. Everyone is shocked that it was her, the "good" and "smart" girl instead of Bridge who jumped first before thinking through things. It turns into a massive deal for two episodes. Then is forgotten again like it was nothing. Even when Kerry starts dating JTT character in the series, the talk of sex is never brought up again. I mean, when Brad hears about children, he starts freaking out. What did he think would happen after getting married? Sure, they could wait a few years, but really, he is marrying someone almost five years older than him and he just thought they get married and life would be flowers and butterflies. Of course, Noah did that himself a few years later when he married that woman who was 8 years older than him. 

Yeah, everyone was shocked that the "good" and "smart" girl had sex.  Still a little better then Gilmore Girls where Paris had sex with her boyfriend and Lorelai whispers she had the good kid because Rory hadn't had sex yet (I do remember Lauren Graham saying she hated that line). Smart teens have sex too and given how long Randy and Lauren were together its not impossible to think they might decide their ready. That's a good question about Brad thought would happen if he and Samantha got married. What exactly was he expecting? He was surprised that Samantha mentioned kids and just as surprised when his parents told him they wouldn't be paying for college. Usually when teens or in this case one teen want to get married its usually they think their in a star-cross relationship or something. Their parents are against them which isn't the case here. Brad and Samantha decided to get married and then his parents flipped out. I love how Brad seems surprised by that. Really, Brad, it want scenario do you think parents are going to be happy their teen got engaged? Especially when he's still in high school. Your lucky they didn't kill you. But then what was his reason? Just get married to be married?  What's the point? 

[readster]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, everyone was shocked that the "good" and "smart" girl had sex.  Still a little better then Gilmore Girls where Paris had sex with her boyfriend and Lorelai whispers she had the good kid because Rory hadn't had sex yet (I do remember Lauren Graham saying she hated that line). Smart teens have sex too and given how long Randy and Lauren were together its not impossible to think they might decide their ready. That's a good question about Brad thought would happen if he and Samantha got married. What exactly was he expecting? He was surprised that Samantha mentioned kids and just as surprised when his parents told him they wouldn't be paying for college. Usually when teens or in this case one teen want to get married its usually they think their in a star-cross relationship or something. Their parents are against them which isn't the case here. Brad and Samantha decided to get married and then his parents flipped out. I love how Brad seems surprised by that. Really, Brad, it want scenario do you think parents are going to be happy their teen got engaged? Especially when he's still in high school. Your lucky they didn't kill you. But then what was his reason? Just get married to be married?  What's the point? 

Exactly! It isn't like: "They have been dating all through high school, and get engaged in college and just want to wait until after graduation." I had a set of friends, they dated from sophomore year and got engaged after freshman year in college and got married during their junior year. However, they didn't have kids until almost 4 years later. However, you look at that and no one is shocked or going to be upset. It's not like they were having a shot gun wedding or something. Which, my wife's family thought when we got engaged after almost a year and then got married the following fall. Things just worked out that way, but we were adults in our early to mid 30s and had respected jobs and living on our own. Say we did that at age 20, I think our families would have thought we were out of our minds. In Brad and Samantha's situation, they came off as that. Plus, really, Sam was a year away from being 22 and graduating on time and Tim and Jill didn't stop things right there. Not like Brad was 17 and Samantha was 19. Yes, one in college and one on the end of high school, but that's more common. Plus, once again, Jill and Tim aren't thinking they might be having sex and no offense against a girl in college and a boy in high school, but seriously, duh? Sex isn't going to either a common thought or something. 

  I do believe if JTT wouldn't have been so bent on leaving the show, Randy and Lauren would have most likely dealt with sex on the show. The actress was written out because JTT wanted off, she was still acting on various shows after Randy was written out of the show. She even said it was great working on Home Improvement for over a year and realized years later, it was steady work, something that a lot of actors want to have after they pass a peak point or something. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 9:53 AM, readster said:

Exactly! It isn't like: "They have been dating all through high school, and get engaged in college and just want to wait until after graduation." I had a set of friends, they dated from sophomore year and got engaged after freshman year in college and got married during their junior year. However, they didn't have kids until almost 4 years later. However, you look at that and no one is shocked or going to be upset. It's not like they were having a shot gun wedding or something. Which, my wife's family thought when we got engaged after almost a year and then got married the following fall. Things just worked out that way, but we were adults in our early to mid 30s and had respected jobs and living on our own. Say we did that at age 20, I think our families would have thought we were out of our minds. In Brad and Samantha's situation, they came off as that. Plus, really, Sam was a year away from being 22 and graduating on time and Tim and Jill didn't stop things right there. Not like Brad was 17 and Samantha was 19. Yes, one in college and one on the end of high school, but that's more common. Plus, once again, Jill and Tim aren't thinking they might be having sex and no offense against a girl in college and a boy in high school, but seriously, duh? Sex isn't going to either a common thought or something. 

  I do believe if JTT wouldn't have been so bent on leaving the show, Randy and Lauren would have most likely dealt with sex on the show. The actress was written out because JTT wanted off, she was still acting on various shows after Randy was written out of the show. She even said it was great working on Home Improvement for over a year and realized years later, it was steady work, something that a lot of actors want to have after they pass a peak point or something. 

It really isn't. They had dated for two weeks and decided they wanted to get married. That's crazy no matter what age you are but even more so when one is still in high school. I know people who got engaged at graduation or married out of high school but yes all of those were together for at least a couple years. My sister-in-law and her two best friends married their high school boyfriends about a year out of high school. Its young but not that uncommon. They all put off kids at least for a few years while they went to college and/or got jobs and worked their way up. My brother and sister-in-law were originally going to wait longer because her parents said they'd pay for college if they waited only to change their minds halfway through. They didn't see any point in waiting anymore. Brad and Samantha's make no sense. Sam is older she'll be graduating college around the same time Brad is graduating high school. For what? If they'd been dating as long Randy and Lauren it might make sense. But they only met two weeks before. Brad seemed to be under the idea his parents would be still paying for college until they burst that bubble. Ah, why Brad? Once your married you are an adult they don't have to do that. He also seemed shocked by kids.  Why? You get married and have kids. Samantha's plan of five years is typical. She's graduating and probably betting a couple years to get steady work in whatever field she got her degree in. So again what was he getting married for? To live with Samantha? Sex didn't seem to be the reason either although neither really seemed the type that waiting until marriage would be a concern (and it still should be a concern of his parents teens do have sex and if one is dating a college person they are even more likely having sex). So then why? Brad mentioned he'd get a scholarship what if he doesn't? Then he just saddled Samantha with paying for his college educating and she depending who's paying for hers could have loans to pay back. Is he going to get a job or is Samantha going to be supporting them (I'm not sure exactly who is supporting Samantha)? What if he does get a scholarship but Samantha gets a job somewhere else? One would have to give up something. Is Brad willing to do that? Its such an out of the blue idea that makes very little sense.  If they showed the two making out repeatedly for two weeks, constantly racing off to see each other and having a hard time leaving each other, always on the phone with each other a part and talked about how if they lived together they'd never have to leave each other's side that would make more sense they might think of marriage. Driven by hormones and a new relationship. But that's not the case.

[Was-MArsenault]

On ‎09‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 2:01 AM, andromeda331 said:

Yes, they really do. It would be much better if instead of glossing it over or going big they took the time to work it out. Even if its just a couple episodes. They do something big like Scott cheating on Heidi or killing off Jill's father but then don't really bother to do much with except for that episode. If your not going to follow through when you go big then they really shouldn't. They could have had Scott and Heidi split up and get back together with zero need for cheating. Jill's dad was a little harder because its just so big and would effect everyone and for awhile. I wish Mark had gotten a girlfriend or two by the end of the series. He was the only one who didn't. It was really fun watching Brad's and Randy's first crushes, nerves on the first date and seeing the different girls they dated. Maybe Mark could have dated a Goth girl. I also wish we'd had gotten a follow up to Brad deciding he was ready to have sex or maybe switch it up and have Randy be the first one and sleep with Lauren. Jill of course would have freaked out about it while Tim probably would be patting his son on the back. But maybe he'd change his mind after finding a box of condoms or something. I still can't believe for all Jill's freaking out that wasn't the first thing she thought of when Brad was dating Samantha. An older girl, in college, but she's not worried they might having sex? I'm surprised Tim didn't think about it either. No but instead of that which would make more sense Brad and Samantha decided instead they want to get married. That's just such a weird and out of the blue idea for Brad or really any teenage boy to think of. Sex yes, marriage? No. Ilene sure found someone else quick. I wish they had put a little more time before announcing that Iliene was getting married again so soon. I guess it does some time happens but it still seems really quick.   

 

I'm not sure either. Zachary's imdb page mentions baseball and soccer. 

That's cool to know. :)

[andromeda331]

I really like how the show handles the three boys and their relationship with each other. From Brad and Randy being best buds and teaming up to being pains to Mark. To Mark being the one who squeals on them. Like the one with the magician babysitter when Jill calls Brad and Randy don't want to tell her that he's stuck in the box because they know she'll blame them for it which they were right she and Tim do when they get home. Given their troublemaking its not a stretch to think they were. Jill wants to talk to Mark which they don't want her to because he'll rat them out. Sure enough despite his promise Mark immediately tells his mom that Brad and Randy locked the magician in a box then drops the phone and runs with his brothers chasing after him. Tim and Jill return home completely convinced it was Brad and Randy's fault until Sir Larry assures them it wasn't their fault. Same when the boys are being bullied in the video game room at the bowling alley. Brad and Randy decided try to let it go but don't when the Bully says something about Randy and Brad immediately tries to beat him up. Then later the three work together to get the Bully handcuffed to the video game. Or when the three boys team up to prank Tim with the shaving cream. Or to get the donuts out of the cupboard. A few years later Brad and Randy are fighting more because their relationship has changed. Randy feels left out because Brad now has new friends, interests and a girlfriend. Brad's jealousy over how easy it is for his younger brother with classes and grades. Randy's jealousy when Brad writes an article that gets more attention. Later when Randy leaves we see Brad and Mark become closer. They did a good job with the boys and their relationship with each other.

[paulvdb]

I've moved most of the recent posts to the media thread because they weren't about the episodes. Please try to keep your posts on topic.

[Was-MArsenault]

3 hours ago, paulvdb said:

I've moved most of the recent posts to the media thread because they weren't about the episodes. Please try to keep your posts on topic.

Sorry about that.

[Was-MArsenault]

Worst episodes of the show:

https://episode.ninja/series/home-improvement/worst-episodes

Best episodes:

https://episode.ninja/series/home-improvement

[Was-MArsenault]

The best seasons of the show:

https://episode.ninja/series/home-improvement/best-seasons

Surprisingly, there are no worst seasons at all.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Worst episodes of the show:

https://episode.ninja/series/home-improvement/worst-episodes

Best episodes:

https://episode.ninja/series/home-improvement

Personally, I disagree with some of them. From the Best I didn't like Room at the Top, Jill knows very well not to tell Tim he can build something and then change her mind. Tim also asked her specifically when she did ask him if she really wanted him to do this. She said yes. I don't really like Futile Attraction Tim is too obsessed with finding out what's happening with Heidi and Al. I didn't really like Communication Breakdown either it just wasn't really interesting. Mow Better Blues was really good boy Brad and Randy were terrible to Mark. I didn't really like Jill's Passion although I do like the end part with the two talking. Then again we later see the same man hitting on Jill in her house as the Granite Guy. I disagree about Feminine Mistake because once again Jill jumps on an insane theory. She truly believes Brad is making his girlfriend cook and clean for him even after he tells her he's not. He really isn't and its not uncommon for girlfriends to do that stuff to be nice. Jill blows it completely out of proportion and so does Wilson. I do like what Tim says to Brad in the garage. An Older Woman isn't a favorite either I can't imagine a teenage boy wanting to get married. He seems surprised by kids and having to pay for college so I'm not really sure why he wants to get married.

I'm not sure if I agree about Let them Eat Cake with Randy being thrown out of the house and Wilson doing nothing even thought he admits he'd been watching for awhile. I do like that Tool Time finally got an award. It really is a good show and they should have won more awards. I'm not sure about the Long and Winding Road 2 I kind of wish they had shown Jill and Brad graduation in addition to all the clips but I do love the music they chose for it and the clips. I'm just not sure it would be part of my top episodes. Same with the Great Race II I love seeing the hot rod finish and the family leaving in it. I love the race and the two challenging each other. I'm not sure I'd put it as a top episode though. I love Mark's horror movie and really like how excited he is about it I don't like Jill the Genius Therapist thinking Mark wants to murder them because that's the movie he's making. Its a horror movie Jill. I'm not sure about the Kiss and Kiss off. It was good episode it was great to see Lisa back and Tim begging Heidi to come back. But I'm not sure its in my top Home Improvement episodes.

I agree about What A Drag, that's a great episode I do like how they handled finding marijuana and the stakeout. Talking with Brad. It was well done. So was Taps the different reactions, Jill feeling guilty, Randy making jokes but not understand why. They really nailed reactions to a sudden death. I was a Teenage Taylor was really good one. I love the different pranks. They always did go way out for Halloween. I do like the Date Game it was fun seeing Al and Tim out a club Al trying to pick up women and does meet a woman too bad he lied to her. But it was a good episode. I really like how underinterested Tim was in going out and picking up women. I like Al's Fair in Love and War Al's crust on Greta and hers on him but he's too nervous to ask her out. It doesn't help that Tim didn't give him good advice. But I liked them working it out. They were a cute couple if brief. I agree about Home for the Holidays. My Dinner with Wilson was a really good one. I do always love when Tim gives Wilson advice. Its really nice to see the friendship goes both ways.
 I agree with the Pilot it was a good opening up to the series and watching Tim blow up his first appliance along with the really cute scene with Tim and Mark dancing. I love Games, Flames and Automobiles. The game sounded really fun and I love that Tim figured out what was wrong and gathered Wilson, Jill, Cal, Ilene and Heidi to help fix all of the games. Al proposing to Iiene. I really love the scene when Al and Tim go looking for Lars only to find Fortune cookies instead with crappy fortunes. It was really funny. I agree with The Tool Man Delivers its weird that no one goes to Tim's award ceremony but I do like him and Jill helping to deliver the baby by following Wilson's instructions. Tim sacrificing his jacket for a blanket. I agree with The Long and Winding Road Three watching Trudy and Al get married, the last Tool Time with K&B Construction, Sparky, the Plumber, Janeen and Mario Andretti showing up to sing Burning Down the House. Tim, Al, and Heidi hugging. I'm still not sure about them moving and wish they could have gotten Randy back but it really was a great finale. Even better when you realize how little time they had to put it together.

Now For the Worse

I kind of like Slip Sleddin Away Randy's trip to the ER withTim telling him all about the hospital. Seeing all Tim's friends there he really helped calm Randy's nervous. Plus him getting hit with the door just as he was remarking that it was the first time he was in the ER not as a patient. I really like Randy explaining to Jill why he wanted to race Vinnie and her understanding. I disagree with Mr. Likeable yes Tim was unhappy at first but then after a talk with Wilson he steps up as Al's agent until Al fires him and goes with the other guy. I liked Roomie for Improvement. Al and Tim rooming together poor Tim having to sit through all those tapes of Al's childhood. They also really bonded and I liked Tim helping Al charm his neighbor Cynthia including the story about the nun. Birth of the Hot Rod and Let's Go to the Videotape I'm pretty neutral on. I liked That's My Momma it was interesting to see Tim handling his mother dating again. I like Tim's reaction to Harry's heart attack in Death Begins at Forty. I love his talk with Wilson. I didn't like everyone else acting like Tim was crazy after witnessing one of his best friends having a heart attack and knowing that Tim lost his father when he was 11. It really wasn't a surprise that was Tim's reaction.

I'm uncertain about Mark's Big Break. I hate Mark's film it didn't fit with what Tim would have wanted and I don't know why he did it that way. Or was surprised when everyone hated it. I do love Grease Lightening that was much better. I'm neutral on Its My Party, I don't love or hate it. A Hardware Habit to Break I hated that Harry left the show and Marty helping to drive the business into the ground. I do like that Jeff ends up buying it and seems ready to put aside all his hair brain ideas to finally do some real work. I'm pretty neutral on Sisters and Brothers and Ex Marks the Spot. I'm neutral on Super Bowl Fever it was fun seeing how excited Tim was and poor Jill when they invaded her room and Bennie goes under the comforter with her.

I agree with Home Alone it was really just a boring episode. I agree with Future Shock for one thing Tim has a routine in this episode that we never see again. Plus he never seems the type to have a routine. I agree with Love's Labor 2, the first part wasn't too bad except for Jill not having a check up in a long time. It just doesn't seem like Jill. But the second one she was so horrible to everyone. I agree with This Joke's For You. I agree with Karate or Not Here I Come I hated the way the other kid's mother acted. She was awful and so was her husband. They should have been banned from the karate class not Tim and Jill. I agree about Trouble-A-Bruin I tie that one with the one where Jill talks Brad out of going to England to play pro soccer. Once again in this episode she tries to talk him out of trying of UCLA. I know she's worried about his knee but Brad was right that opportunity won't come around again. He can't wait until next year because there will be a whole new crop of boys who will get the scholarships. I still say the England one was worse. With those two episodes it never really comes off like Jill has any real understanding of how soccer careers work which you really think she would given that's her son's dream or think its not that important because its just a sport. Bud taking away all the non-Binford tools was just stupid not to mention bad for the show and business in general. It stupid that he doesn't realize it even though he's suppose to be a great businessman. I agree about Fear of Flying. Once again Jill won't let Mark do something he wants and I do like that the crew from Columbia was on the episode. For that alone I can't put it on my worse list. Astronauts plus video of Space Shuttle Columbia which burned up on re-entry in 2003. I agree about A Sew, Sew Evening and He Aint Heavy He's Just Irresponsible. Marty wanting to leave his wife and kids was just really crappy of him. 
I agree about Knee Deep it makes no sense that Brad didn't noticed the carpet was pulled up! That's something you notice. I did like Penn & Teller though. I agree about the Colonel I hate more that Jill doesn't back Tim up when he was trying to get the ball rolling for her to tell her father how she felt about her father's book. That was really crappy of her.

It does make me wonder what everyone else thinks are the best and worse episodes of Tool Time?  

[Was-MArsenault]

33 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Personally, I disagree with some of them. From the Best I didn't like Room at the Top, Jill knows very well not to tell Tim he can build something and then change her mind. Tim also asked her specifically when she did ask him if she really wanted him to do this. She said yes. I don't really like Futile Attraction Tim is too obsessed with finding out what's happening with Heidi and Al. I didn't really like Communication Breakdown either it just wasn't really interesting. Mow Better Blues was really good boy Brad and Randy were terrible to Mark. I didn't really like Jill's Passion although I do like the end part with the two talking. Then again we later see the same man hitting on Jill in her house as the Granite Guy. I disagree about Feminine Mistake because once again Jill jumps on an insane theory. She truly believes Brad is making his girlfriend cook and clean for him even after he tells her he's not. He really isn't and its not uncommon for girlfriends to do that stuff to be nice. Jill blows it completely out of proportion and so does Wilson. I do like what Tim says to Brad in the garage. An Older Woman isn't a favorite either I can't imagine a teenage boy wanting to get married. He seems surprised by kids and having to pay for college so I'm not really sure why he wants to get married.

I'm not sure if I agree about Let them Eat Cake with Randy being thrown out of the house and Wilson doing nothing even thought he admits he'd been watching for awhile. I do like that Tool Time finally got an award. It really is a good show and they should have won more awards. I'm not sure about the Long and Winding Road 2 I kind of wish they had shown Jill and Brad graduation in addition to all the clips but I do love the music they chose for it and the clips. I'm just not sure it would be part of my top episodes. Same with the Great Race II I love seeing the hot rod finish and the family leaving in it. I love the race and the two challenging each other. I'm not sure I'd put it as a top episode though. I love Mark's horror movie and really like how excited he is about it I don't like Jill the Genius Therapist thinking Mark wants to murder them because that's the movie he's making. Its a horror movie Jill. I'm not sure about the Kiss and Kiss off. It was good episode it was great to see Lisa back and Tim begging Heidi to come back. But I'm not sure its in my top Home Improvement episodes.

I agree about What A Drag, that's a great episode I do like how they handled finding marijuana and the stakeout. Talking with Brad. It was well done. So was Taps the different reactions, Jill feeling guilty, Randy making jokes but not understand why. They really nailed reactions to a sudden death. I was a Teenage Taylor was really good one. I love the different pranks. They always did go way out for Halloween. I do like the Date Game it was fun seeing Al and Tim out a club Al trying to pick up women and does meet a woman too bad he lied to her. But it was a good episode. I really like how underinterested Tim was in going out and picking up women. I like Al's Fair in Love and War Al's crust on Greta and hers on him but he's too nervous to ask her out. It doesn't help that Tim didn't give him good advice. But I liked them working it out. They were a cute couple if brief. I agree about Home for the Holidays. My Dinner with Wilson was a really good one. I do always love when Tim gives Wilson advice. Its really nice to see the friendship goes both ways.
 I agree with the Pilot it was a good opening up to the series and watching Tim blow up his first appliance along with the really cute scene with Tim and Mark dancing. I love Games, Flames and Automobiles. The game sounded really fun and I love that Tim figured out what was wrong and gathered Wilson, Jill, Cal, Ilene and Heidi to help fix all of the games. Al proposing to Iiene. I really love the scene when Al and Tim go looking for Lars only to find Fortune cookies instead with crappy fortunes. It was really funny. I agree with The Tool Man Delivers its weird that no one goes to Tim's award ceremony but I do like him and Jill helping to deliver the baby by following Wilson's instructions. Tim sacrificing his jacket for a blanket. I agree with The Long and Winding Road Three watching Trudy and Al get married, the last Tool Time with K&B Construction, Sparky, the Plumber, Janeen and Mario Andretti showing up to sing Burning Down the House. Tim, Al, and Heidi hugging. I'm still not sure about them moving and wish they could have gotten Randy back but it really was a great finale. Even better when you realize how little time they had to put it together.

Now For the Worse

I kind of like Slip Sleddin Away Randy's trip to the ER withTim telling him all about the hospital. Seeing all Tim's friends there he really helped calm Randy's nervous. Plus him getting hit with the door just as he was remarking that it was the first time he was in the ER not as a patient. I really like Randy explaining to Jill why he wanted to race Vinnie and her understanding. I disagree with Mr. Likeable yes Tim was unhappy at first but then after a talk with Wilson he steps up as Al's agent until Al fires him and goes with the other guy. I liked Roomie for Improvement. Al and Tim rooming together poor Tim having to sit through all those tapes of Al's childhood. They also really bonded and I liked Tim helping Al charm his neighbor Cynthia including the story about the nun. Birth of the Hot Rod and Let's Go to the Videotape I'm pretty neutral on. I liked That's My Momma it was interesting to see Tim handling his mother dating again. I like Tim's reaction to Harry's heart attack in Death Begins at Forty. I love his talk with Wilson. I didn't like everyone else acting like Tim was crazy after witnessing one of his best friends having a heart attack and knowing that Tim lost his father when he was 11. It really wasn't a surprise that was Tim's reaction.

I'm uncertain about Mark's Big Break. I hate Mark's film it didn't fit with what Tim would have wanted and I don't know why he did it that way. Or was surprised when everyone hated it. I do love Grease Lightening that was much better. I'm neutral on Its My Party, I don't love or hate it. A Hardware Habit to Break I hated that Harry left the show and Marty helping to drive the business into the ground. I do like that Jeff ends up buying it and seems ready to put aside all his hair brain ideas to finally do some real work. I'm pretty neutral on Sisters and Brothers and Ex Marks the Spot. I'm neutral on Super Bowl Fever it was fun seeing how excited Tim was and poor Jill when they invaded her room and Bennie goes under the comforter with her.

I agree with Home Alone it was really just a boring episode. I agree with Future Shock for one thing Tim has a routine in this episode that we never see again. Plus he never seems the type to have a routine. I agree with Love's Labor 2, the first part wasn't too bad except for Jill not having a check up in a long time. It just doesn't seem like Jill. But the second one she was so horrible to everyone. I agree with This Joke's For You. I agree with Karate or Not Here I Come I hated the way the other kid's mother acted. She was awful and so was her husband. They should have been banned from the karate class not Tim and Jill. I agree about Trouble-A-Bruin I tie that one with the one where Jill talks Brad out of going to England to play pro soccer. Once again in this episode she tries to talk him out of trying of UCLA. I know she's worried about his knee but Brad was right that opportunity won't come around again. He can't wait until next year because there will be a whole new crop of boys who will get the scholarships. I still say the England one was worse. With those two episodes it never really comes off like Jill has any real understanding of how soccer careers work which you really think she would given that's her son's dream or think its not that important because its just a sport. Bud taking away all the non-Binford tools was just stupid not to mention bad for the show and business in general. It stupid that he doesn't realize it even though he's suppose to be a great businessman. I agree about Fear of Flying. Once again Jill won't let Mark do something he wants and I do like that the crew from Columbia was on the episode. For that alone I can't put it on my worse list. Astronauts plus video of Space Shuttle Columbia which burned up on re-entry in 2003. I agree about A Sew, Sew Evening and He Aint Heavy He's Just Irresponsible. Marty wanting to leave his wife and kids was just really crappy of him. 
I agree about Knee Deep it makes no sense that Brad didn't noticed the carpet was pulled up! That's something you notice. I did like Penn & Teller though. I agree about the Colonel I hate more that Jill doesn't back Tim up when he was trying to get the ball rolling for her to tell her father how she felt about her father's book. That was really crappy of her.

It does make me wonder what everyone else thinks are the best and worse episodes of Tool Time?  

What do you think are the best and worst seasons of the show?

[andromeda331]

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:13 AM, MikaelaArsenault said:

What do you think are the best and worst seasons of the show?

The early seasons are my favorite. Season eight is my least favorite some episodes were really good like the one with Randy leaving, Christmas episode, Marty moving in with the twins, Tim and Jill helping Marty when one was throwing tantrums. The Halloween episode and the one where Brad's car gets stolen are really good but so many more that season just aren't good like Brad injuring his knee, Not So Great Scott with Jill breaking confidential and
Tim opening his mouth at the restaurant. Al's Fair Lady with Jill so upset over Trudy's gift to Al, Home Alone, Young at Heart and Neighbors except at the end where we learn Wilson's wife designed the Greenhouse, Loose Lips and Freudian Slips, and of course Love's Labour Lost part 2 and the episode I can't let go where Jill talks Brad out of play pro soccer in England which who does that? That's a once in a lifetime opportunity you don't say no too. Its the same as Randy's once in a lifetime opportunity but Jill refuses to see it that way which drives me crazy soccer is huge there of course he should take the chance but no and Brad ends up give it up.
Then Season 7 next as my least favorite with Room at the Top, Jill's Passion (except the end with the two talking), Jill thinking Mark wants to murder them,  Tim the Landlord, An Older Woman, Futile Attraction, From Top to Bottom, Rebel without Night Driving Privilages with Jill is being unreasonable and the worse one Tim giving up a once in a lifetime opportunity to go into space because of Mark.
It did have some good episodes Say Goodnight Gracie is really cute, the Right Stuff was really good, Bright Christmas with Jill and her mother dealing with her father's passing, The Dating Game, Losing My Religion, and Clash of the Taylors.
The best seasons were really the early ones. First Season with the Pilot, Mow Better Blues, Off Sides with the magician ending up locked in his trunk and Tim and the other guy at the restaurant with their obsession with the game. They crack me up every time. That other guy should have ended up Tim's best friend. They were both hilarious. Satellite on a Hot Tim's Roof, Bubble, Bubble, Toil and Trouble the first project Tim does, Yule Better Watch Out, Up Your Alley with the boys teaming up to take down the bully, What about Bob, Baby Its Cold Outside, and Flying Sauces with Tim, Jill and Mark pranking Brad and Randy.
From Season 2 I love Pulled Groin, Roomie for Improvement, the Haunting of Taylor House, Where there's a Will There's A Way, I'm Scheming of a White Christmas, Bell Bottom Blues, Dances with Tools, To Build or Not to Build, This Joke's For You, Arrivederci Binford, Crazy for You, Be True to Your Tool, A Frozen Moment, Feud for Thought, Twas the Blight Before Christmas, Slip Sleddin Away,  Reel Men, Room for Change, Too Many Cooks, Fifth Anniversary, Swing Time, Reality Bytes, From Season Four Don't Tell Momma, Death Begins at Forty, Quibbling Siblings, My Dinner with Wilson, Ye Olde Shoppe Teacher, Twas the Night Before Chaos, The Route of All Evil, Bachelor of the Year, No, No Godot, A Marked Man, and Wilson's Girlfriend
From Season Five A Taylor Runs Through it except for when Tim injuries Jill by not watching where he's driving the boat, The First Temptation of Tim, The Look when the men are talking about the Look from their wives and Al and Benny's reaction to Delores giving Harry the Look, Room without A View, Doctor in the House, That's my Momma, Twas the Flight Before Christmas, Oh Brother, High School Confidential, Fear of Flying because the crew of Shuttle Columbia visit,  Engine And Haircut, Two Fights, The Longest Day, Mr. Wilson's Opus, Shopping Around, Alarmed by Burglars and Games, Flames and Automobiles. From Season 6 Al's Video, I was a Teenage Taylor, The Tool Man Delivers, The Wood, The Bad, and the Hungry, Working Man Blues, No Place Like Home, The Flirting Game watching Tim and learning later Wilson both bought cleaner from the pretty saleswoman, The Karate Kid Returns Mark saving Randy was really cool, Wilson's World, My Son the Driver, and Taps.
The best episodes really were the Halloween and Christmas episodes. I love when ever the three boys team up together and when they prank each other. I love whenever K&B Construction visit Tool Time, Bob Villa, Mario and Michael Andretti, crew from Columbia and Endeavor. Also when the crew of USS Constellation were giving a pregnant Heidi tips. Their construction projects like bathroom, bedroom, and closet. On the show the Man's Bedroom, kitchen, closet, and everything else.

My least favorite moments usually involve Jill when she messes up and won't apologizes, when she messes up Tim's plan to drop the engine into the hot rod with a few friends but hijacks it to set up two people, badging Tim to tell her that his friend was cheating on her friend but doesn't tell Tim that Karen was thinking of breaking up with him so its okay for Jill to keep secrets but not for Tim? She gives him a crappy apology that she'd never accept from Tim when he messes up, dragging Tim off to marriage counseling even though she says nothing is wrong with their marriage and getting mad when everyone sides with Tim and not her who takes their spouse to marriage counseling hoping for sympathy from other people? That's messed up. The reason no one gave her any sympathy was Jill tells the group how she took Tim off for a romantic weekend at a B&B and gets mad when he doesn't say something romantic after she did. Well, Jill leaves out the part that it was Indy weekend. Who makes their sports loving spouse on away then? She tried to claim it was the only weekend which was bull Jill is constantly dragging Tim off or making him go out to dinner when games are playing. She never once considers any other time despite knowing how much her husband loves sports. Jill poking her nose into Randy's girlfriend's parents marriage despite only hearing a few comments from Bert. I agree she probably was right but you don't give advice when without listening to both and asking Bert questions and hearing more then a few comments. The show does constantly try to tell us Jill is a great therapist but we never see it. She breaks confidentially about Heidi's husband and doesn't really seem to learn from it or realized how badly she messed up. That's a huge deal and like Wilson tells her the college and her professor could have gotten sued. And so she could have. Thinking Mark wants to murder them because of his horror movie, deciding Brad was making his girlfriend make his lunch and clean for him and flipping out. She doesn't even listen when Brad says that's not what happened.  Refusing to let Randy drive a night for month because of Brad's accident and not listening to anyone who tries to point out how unfair that was. Getting all worked up over Trudy giving Al the car and decided Trudy has some sort of issue. Deciding Willow has problems because she's a 24 year old single girl who goes out clubbing and stuff all night long. Asking Tim to build the attic office and then changing her mind. Not wanting her sister Carrie to date Jeff because she looks down on Tim's family. Getting mad at Mark for using his karate even though it was to save Randy who was about to get beaten up.  Also, one more thing about Heidi after Jill breaks confidentially and tells Tim about Scott's affair she wants Tim to talk to Scott. That's not how therapy works. You don't learn a client is having an affair or had one and send your husband out to fix it. I really do wish in so many cases that Jill's mess ups were framed as mess ups and she had to apologize just as Tim always does when he messes up. That her mess ups with Michelle's parents and Heidi were framed as learning mistakes. She learned from them and realized she couldn't just go and diagnosis people or had to learn to keep her mouth shut even when she learns something like their friend Heidi's husband cheated on her. But they never are and that's what makes her my least favorite.  

[Was-MArsenault]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

The early seasons are my favorite. Season eight is my least favorite some episodes were really good like the one with Randy leaving, Christmas episode, Marty moving in with the twins, Tim and Jill helping Marty when one was throwing tantrums. The Halloween episode and the one where Brad's car gets stolen are really good but so many more that season just aren't good like Brad injuring his knee, Not So Great Scott with Jill breaking confidential and
Tim opening his mouth at the restaurant. Al's Fair Lady with Jill so upset over Trudy's gift to Al, Home Alone, Young at Heart and Neighbors except at the end where we learn Wilson's wife designed the Greenhouse, Loose Lips and Freudian Slips, and of course Love's Labour Lost part 2 and the episode I can't let go where Jill talks Brad out of play pro soccer in England which who does that? That's a once in a lifetime opportunity you don't say no too. Its the same as Randy's once in a lifetime opportunity but Jill refuses to see it that way which drives me crazy soccer is huge there of course he should take the chance but no and Brad ends up give it up.
Then Season 7 next as my least favorite with Room at the Top, Jill's Passion (except the end with the two talking), Jill thinking Mark wants to murder them,  Tim the Landlord, An Older Woman, Futile Attraction, From Top to Bottom, Rebel without Night Driving Privilages with Jill is being unreasonable and the worse one Tim giving up a once in a lifetime opportunity to go into space because of Mark.
It did have some good episodes Say Goodnight Gracie is really cute, the Right Stuff was really good, Bright Christmas with Jill and her mother dealing with her father's passing, The Dating Game, Losing My Religion, and Clash of the Taylors.
The best seasons were really the early ones. First Season with the Pilot, Mow Better Blues, Off Sides with the magician ending up locked in his trunk and Tim and the other guy at the restaurant with their obsession with the game. They crack me up every time. That other guy should have ended up Tim's best friend. They were both hilarious. Satellite on a Hot Tim's Roof, Bubble, Bubble, Toil and Trouble the first project Tim does, Yule Better Watch Out, Up Your Alley with the boys teaming up to take down the bully, What about Bob, Baby Its Cold Outside, and Flying Sauces with Tim, Jill and Mark pranking Brad and Randy.
From Season 2 I love Pulled Groin, Roomie for Improvement, the Haunting of Taylor House, Where there's a Will There's A Way, I'm Scheming of a White Christmas, Bell Bottom Blues, Dances with Tools, To Build or Not to Build, This Joke's For You, Arrivederci Binford, Crazy for You, Be True to Your Tool, A Frozen Moment, Feud for Thought, Twas the Blight Before Christmas, Slip Sleddin Away,  Reel Men, Room for Change, Too Many Cooks, Fifth Anniversary, Swing Time, Reality Bytes, From Season Four Don't Tell Momma, Death Begins at Forty, Quibbling Siblings, My Dinner with Wilson, Ye Olde Shoppe Teacher, Twas the Night Before Chaos, The Route of All Evil, Bachelor of the Year, No, No Godot, A Marked Man, and Wilson's Girlfriend
From Season Five A Taylor Runs Through it except for when Tim injuries Jill by not watching where he's driving the boat, The First Temptation of Tim, The Look when the men are talking about the Look from their wives and Al and Benny's reaction to Delores giving Harry the Look, Room without A View, Doctor in the House, That's my Momma, Twas the Flight Before Christmas, Oh Brother, High School Confidential, Fear of Flying because the crew of Shuttle Columbia visit,  Engine And Haircut, Two Fights, The Longest Day, Mr. Wilson's Opus, Shopping Around, Alarmed by Burglars and Games, Flames and Automobiles. From Season 6 Al's Video, I was a Teenage Taylor, The Tool Man Delivers, The Wood, The Bad, and the Hungry, Working Man Blues, No Place Like Home, The Flirting Game watching Tim and learning later Wilson both bought cleaner from the pretty saleswoman, The Karate Kid Returns Mark saving Randy was really cool, Wilson's World, My Son the Driver, and Taps.
The best episodes really were the Halloween and Christmas episodes. I love when ever the three boys team up together and when they prank each other. I love whenever K&B Construction visit Tool Time, Bob Villa, Mario and Michael Andretti, crew from Columbia and Endeavor. Also when the crew of USS Constellation were giving a pregnant Heidi tips. Their construction projects like bathroom, bedroom, and closet. On the show the Man's Bedroom, kitchen, closet, and everything else.

My least favorite moments usually involve Jill when she messes up and won't apologizes, when she messes up Tim's plan to drop the engine into the hot rod with a few friends but hijacks it to set up two people, badging Tim to tell her that his friend was cheating on her friend but doesn't tell Tim that Karen was thinking of breaking up with him so its okay for Jill to keep secrets but not for Tim? She gives him a crappy apology that she'd never accept from Tim when he messes up, dragging Tim off to marriage counseling even though she says nothing is wrong with their marriage and getting mad when everyone sides with Tim and not her who takes their spouse to marriage counseling hoping for sympathy from other people? That's messed up. The reason no one gave her any sympathy was Jill tells the group how she took Tim off for a romantic weekend at a B&B and gets mad when he doesn't say something romantic after she did. Well, Jill leaves out the part that it was Indy weekend. Who makes their sports loving spouse on away then? She tried to claim it was the only weekend which was bull Jill is constantly dragging Tim off or making him go out to dinner when games are playing. She never once considers any other time despite knowing how much her husband loves sports. Jill poking her nose into Randy's girlfriend's parents marriage despite only hearing a few comments from Bert. I agree she probably was right but you don't give advice when without listening to both and asking Bert questions and hearing more then a few comments. The show does constantly try to tell us Jill is a great therapist but we never see it. She breaks confidentially about Heidi's husband and doesn't really seem to learn from it or realized how badly she messed up. That's a huge deal and like Wilson tells her the college and her professor could have gotten sued. And so she could have. Thinking Mark wants to murder them because of his horror movie, deciding Brad was making his girlfriend make his lunch and clean for him and flipping out. She doesn't even listen when Brad says that's not what happened.  Refusing to let Randy drive a night for month because of Brad's accident and not listening to anyone who tries to point out how unfair that was. Getting all worked up over Trudy giving Al the car and decided Trudy has some sort of issue. Deciding Willow has problems because she's a 24 year old single girl who goes out clubbing and stuff all night long. Asking Tim to build the attic office and then changing her mind. Not wanting her sister Carrie to date Jeff because she looks down on Tim's family. Getting mad at Mark for using his karate even though it was to save Randy who was about to get beaten up.  Also, one more thing about Heidi after Jill breaks confidentially and tells Tim about Scott's affair she wants Tim to talk to Scott. That's not how therapy works. You don't learn a client is having an affair or had one and send your husband out to fix it. I really do wish in so many cases that Jill's mess ups were framed as mess ups and she had to apologize just as Tim always does when he messes up. That her mess ups with Michelle's parents and Heidi were framed as learning mistakes. She learned from them and realized she couldn't just go and diagnosis people or had to learn to keep her mouth shut even when she learns something like their friend Heidi's husband cheated on her. But they never are and that's what makes her my least favorite.  

I'm not a fan of the later seasons myself and prefer the early seasons over those instead.

[readster]

18 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

I'm not a fan of the later seasons myself and prefer the early seasons over those instead.

My problems in later seasons, Jill becomes not only a nag, but she is: "My way or the high way!" attitude and the plots force characters to cater to the story lines. Tim as the landlord is a grand example as he basically says: "Everyone tells me to just be calm, but why? I want to go to the extreme on everything!" Basically saying if Tim had a chance to go to a shooting range, he would rewire the pistol and most likely blow himself up and kill himself. Same with Jill's dragging on of college courses and showing every reasons to get kicked out of school. Then the boys seem to have lost touch with just using common sense with things. 

[andromeda331]

36 minutes ago, readster said:

My problems in later seasons, Jill becomes not only a nag, but she is: "My way or the high way!" attitude and the plots force characters to cater to the story lines. Tim as the landlord is a grand example as he basically says: "Everyone tells me to just be calm, but why? I want to go to the extreme on everything!" Basically saying if Tim had a chance to go to a shooting range, he would rewire the pistol and most likely blow himself up and kill himself. Same with Jill's dragging on of college courses and showing every reasons to get kicked out of school. Then the boys seem to have lost touch with just using common sense with things. 

That really is the problem. The characters don't really grow. Jill becomes a nag and adds "My way or the high way" how is that fun to watch. She gets an idea in her head and there is no stopping her, shutting her up or getting her to see reason. And showing us all the reasons why she should be kicked out of school. She was a crappy therapist and there's no way any of her professors wouldn't have realized that. Tim goes to the extreme without any filters. The landlord? Why did he need to make up a huge lease? Well, he didn't. He comes off as a jerk. Or when he's driving the boat with Jill waterskiing and stops paying attention. Why would he do that? He knew she was back there. His 'tude after she's injured is crappy. Brad suddenly unable to noticed the carpet has been pulled up. Mark's goth, Randy's suddenly question everything, and Tim's crisis came off out the blue and hard to understand because they never gave any reasons why. They just suddenly were and then suddenly were gone. Plots that force characters aren't really fun. Watching Tim on that birthday trip that he didn't want to go on. Why? Brad getting engaged. Again why?  I knows its very common with TV shows once they reach a certain point they end up caricatures of their formers selves or writers just focus on a couple traits usually the bad ones. Its still stinks. 

[Was-MArsenault]

UP TV's HI marathon today will include all Season 3 episodes.

Lots of notable ones in there as well including 'Twas The Blight Before Christmas and Slip Sleddin' Away.

[andromeda331]

The episode where Al tells Tim about Ilene's dream. Why would he do that? Also why is he so mad at Tim? It was a dream. Its not like anyone can control what the dream. If people could control their dreams we probably wouldn't have nightmares or other things we'd rather not dream about. But he's all mad at Tim. And tells him to stay out of Ilene's dreams. Again how is he suppose to control that? Of course later when Al and Ilene come over Tim now can't shut up about the dream. He does say later that he was trying to get Al to see it was just a silly dream. But that's not how it comes off. Al gets mad at Tim, which yes this time is warrant. But when Ilene finds out and gets mad at Al. He turns around and blames Tim. Ah, Al, she's right its your fault for tell Tim when she asked you not too. And also for getting so upset about a dream. Although later Tim does finally admit he jokes with Al like he jokes with his brothers. Also, Jill was make either chicken or duck and gets six out that she stuffed. Who was all that for? At first I assumed Mark, Brad and Randy but we never actually see them so for all we know their not home. Did she make six for the four of them? Was she saving some for the boys and if so then was six enough for seven people?  

[readster]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The episode where Al tells Tim about Ilene's dream. Why would he do that? Also why is he so mad at Tim? It was a dream. Its not like anyone can control what the dream. If people could control their dreams we probably wouldn't have nightmares or other things we'd rather not dream about. But he's all mad at Tim. And tells him to stay out of Ilene's dreams. Again how is he suppose to control that? Of course later when Al and Ilene come over Tim now can't shut up about the dream. He does say later that he was trying to get Al to see it was just a silly dream. But that's not how it comes off. Al gets mad at Tim, which yes this time is warrant. But when Ilene finds out and gets mad at Al. He turns around and blames Tim. Ah, Al, she's right its your fault for tell Tim when she asked you not too. And also for getting so upset about a dream. Although later Tim does finally admit he jokes with Al like he jokes with his brothers. Also, Jill was make either chicken or duck and gets six out that she stuffed. Who was all that for? At first I assumed Mark, Brad and Randy but we never actually see them so for all we know their not home. Did she make six for the four of them? Was she saving some for the boys and if so then was six enough for seven people?  

Yes, the episode falls apart from the beginning, because here is another thing. Why would Ilene even tell Al in the first place? Even later, Al goes and says: "Then why did you dream about Tim?" Yeah, Al, once again how does Ilene have any control over what she dreams. As much as years later when Jill was dreaming about Tim ruining her life at an old age. She wakes up and starts hitting him going: "I'm an old bitty?" Tim looks confused and then says: "Well... some times." I think at that moment I be more of: "What did I do?" It's not like things like this aren't common on all TV shows about some one dreaming weird stuff. However, it's one thing when it's played for laughs and then they act like it's a big deal, when it's not. Al not feeling secure about Ilene dreaming of another guy? Sure. However, to the point he is mad at Tim and this even cemented that you just can't tell Tim things because he can't stay quite about it. 

[andromeda331]

18 hours ago, readster said:

Yes, the episode falls apart from the beginning, because here is another thing. Why would Ilene even tell Al in the first place? Even later, Al goes and says: "Then why did you dream about Tim?" Yeah, Al, once again how does Ilene have any control over what she dreams. As much as years later when Jill was dreaming about Tim ruining her life at an old age. She wakes up and starts hitting him going: "I'm an old bitty?" Tim looks confused and then says: "Well... some times." I think at that moment I be more of: "What did I do?" It's not like things like this aren't common on all TV shows about some one dreaming weird stuff. However, it's one thing when it's played for laughs and then they act like it's a big deal, when it's not. Al not feeling secure about Ilene dreaming of another guy? Sure. However, to the point he is mad at Tim and this even cemented that you just can't tell Tim things because he can't stay quite about it. 

It really was. There was no need for Ilene to tell Al the dream. Unless she just thought it was silly or funny. She might not have thought it was a big deal. Given how Al reacted she probably regretted that. Why does Al even ask why she dreamed about Tim? Because yes again no one can control their dreams. Its not her fault Al it was a dream. I know Al is insecure but he over reacted completely with it. Ironically you'd that would have given IIene pause on their relationship. She tells Al her dream who knows why maybe she though it was funny or silly or just weird. His reaction is to get mad at Tim and ask her why she dreamed about Tim in the first place? Like she totally planned and hoped to dream about her boyfriend's boss/friend? It was a dream. Its not like she suddenly started hitting on Tim. Sure they made up at the end but I doubt IIene ever told him about another one of her dreams again. Who knows how he'd flip out of she told him she had dream about some hot actor. He shouldn't have told Tim because it wasn't his fault and of course Tim would never keep quiet about that. Even though he should have. Even after IIene stormed out mad Tim makes that remark about how he feels. Seriously? What did he have to feel bad about? He never should have said anything. Al shouldn't have made a big deal out if a dream.

That's right Jill did the same thing! After she had that dream she woke up and immediately got mad at Tim and started hitting him. First, how is that any reaction you have when you wake up from a dream? By that point you realize it was a dream. Nope, but the world's greatest therapist immediately starts hitting her husband and blaming him for the dream. Yes, Tim's response really would have been "What did I do? or demanding to know why you were being woken up by being hit. She continues to go off on him and blaming him. For what? It was dream! He didn't do anything wrong. She doesn't apologize either. When dreams are played for laughs its really fun. Most people do have really weird dreams at times. Its fun watching TV dreams they are usually fun. But in both of these episodes that's not really how it plays out. Al and Jill come off like idiots for apparently not understand how dreams work and blaming Tim for what happened in the dreams. Tim claims he's trying to get Al to see its no big deal but that's not how it comes off. He comes of as a jerk for embarrassing poor Ilene. 

[andromeda331]

The episode where Jill and Tim go to that marriage counseling was on last night. I'm not sure if I realized this before or forgot. Jill tells the guy running it that Tim is new to this and feels the need to point out that she's psychology major. The guy running says he knows because she mentioned it on her application several times. Jill instead of noticing his tone or realize how weird that sounds goes on to brag about her grade point average. Why does she feel the need to let everyone there know that? Oh, of course so she can brag. I doubt the other couples cared or quietly were annoyed expecting her act like she knew everything even though she was a student and there supposedly to work on her marriage (who hasn't be a part of a group thing with someone like that).  I had three different thoughts.

The first wondering if that's why Jill keeps losing friends. She apparently already bragged enough about being a psych student and grade point average that the guy in charge was already annoyed by it. I can only imagine her doing that all the time with her friends. I could see her thinking she's the smart one out of all her friends. The other was no wonder Jill went back to college for a psych degree and taking so long taking classes. She's really loving feeling superior about how smart she is and being able to brag about that, her grades and being a psych student. She can brag all she wants while taking years before having to put her money where her mouth is. Give openings and diagnosis people while making them think they have to listen to her because she's going for her PH.D. Or in Bert's case letting him think she's a therapist when actually she's a student.

The third thing. Does she have anything else she's actually good at? We know she's a terrible cook, she's terrible at the piano, we learn she's terrible flute player in the episode Brad wants to quit his music lessons, she must be bad a pottery because we never hear of that again. She can't brag about any of those things. She's also apparently was fired from every job she ever had except the magazine where she was laid off. Jill starts taking classes and never stops bragging. Ironic since she really isn't that good. Although that does make you wonder if Jill is either better with books or too busy already thinking she'd an excellent therapist to stop and bother with doing any of the actual work. Her I Got A bragging lead her to immediately diagnosis Bert and his wife without meeting her or asking any questions. I assume she ignores and moves on forgetting how she messed up because she never really learns from it. Or thinking her being a psych student and grade point average means everyone's going to be sympathetic to her instead of her having to sit and listen to some of her faults in couples counseling. 

[readster]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The first wondering if that's why Jill keeps losing friends. She apparently already bragged enough about being a psych student and grade point average that the guy in charge was already annoyed by it. I can only imagine her doing that all the time with her friends. I could see her thinking she's the smart one out of all her friends. The other was no wonder Jill went back to college for a psych degree and taking so long taking classes. She's really loving feeling superior about how smart she is and being able to brag about that, her grades and being a psych student. She can brag all she wants while taking years before having to put her money where her mouth is. Give openings and diagnosis people while making them think they have to listen to her because she's going for her PH.D. Or in Bert's case letting him think she's a therapist when actually she's a student.

The third thing. Does she have anything else she's actually good at? We know she's a terrible cook, she's terrible at the piano, we learn she's terrible flute player in the episode Brad wants to quit his music lessons, she must be bad a pottery because we never hear of that again. She can't brag about any of those things. She's also apparently was fired from every job she ever had except the magazine where she was laid off. Jill starts taking classes and never stops bragging. Ironic since she really isn't that good. Although that does make you wonder if Jill is either better with books or too busy already thinking she'd an excellent therapist to stop and bother with doing any of the actual work. Her I Got A bragging lead her to immediately diagnosis Bert and his wife without meeting her or asking any questions. I assume she ignores and moves on forgetting how she messed up because she never really learns from it. Or thinking her being a psych student and grade point average means everyone's going to be sympathetic to her instead of her having to sit and listen to some of her faults in couples counseling. 

That also plays out with Mark and his horror movie or Trudy giving Al the car. Even at times when she got mad at Tim for not fixing an issue with Scott and Heidi when it was her fault at things. Jill looks for problems, because she wants to feel superior. However, thinking back to her father, Fred's problem is, he looked for faults in everything so he could hate on it. That isn't a superior complex, that is someone who wants to feel like they have control over their own world. Fred hated: dancing, opinions, politics that weren't his own, the Taylor Men, ect. After he died, Lillian as much as she missed him, all of a sudden started doing things she loved, but couldn't because Fred hated it. Jill's problem was, she felt like she also had to fix someone else's problems, but it made her feel so superior. The entire thing with Bert happened, because the boys wouldn't tell her their problems anymore. Even when she got Randy to admit the fighting with Brad was because he felt left out. Jill turned it around to make it look like she was the hero and Tim was a moron who didn't Randy to confess to it. However, it was apparently Tim getting Mark to wake up from his goth problems over the summer. Yet, when the final season starts, all of Mark's goth issues including Ronnie are just swept and forgotten. 

  It wasn't like Tim didn't solve problems, because he did, including the entire stupidity of Jill upset that Brad's girlfriend was making him lunch or helping with his chores. Yet, she had to rub it that it was all her amazing education that did it. 

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, readster said:

That also plays out with Mark and his horror movie or Trudy giving Al the car. Even at times when she got mad at Tim for not fixing an issue with Scott and Heidi when it was her fault at things. Jill looks for problems, because she wants to feel superior. However, thinking back to her father, Fred's problem is, he looked for faults in everything so he could hate on it. That isn't a superior complex, that is someone who wants to feel like they have control over their own world. Fred hated: dancing, opinions, politics that weren't his own, the Taylor Men, ect. After he died, Lillian as much as she missed him, all of a sudden started doing things she loved, but couldn't because Fred hated it. Jill's problem was, she felt like she also had to fix someone else's problems, but it made her feel so superior. The entire thing with Bert happened, because the boys wouldn't tell her their problems anymore. Even when she got Randy to admit the fighting with Brad was because he felt left out. Jill turned it around to make it look like she was the hero and Tim was a moron who didn't Randy to confess to it. However, it was apparently Tim getting Mark to wake up from his goth problems over the summer. Yet, when the final season starts, all of Mark's goth issues including Ronnie are just swept and forgotten. 

  It wasn't like Tim didn't solve problems, because he did, including the entire stupidity of Jill upset that Brad's girlfriend was making him lunch or helping with his chores. Yet, she had to rub it that it was all her amazing education that did it. 

It really does. That's exactly what Jill wants. To feel superior.  She's constantly looking for problems so she can swoop in and fix things and be the hero. She keeps bragging about her grades, her grade point average and the degree she wants for the same reason.  Most of the time she "finds" problems that don't even exist. Like yes Trudy with the car and Mark and his horror movie. It was a horror movie, she never once stops to realize how ridiculous to think that. Its a horror movie. Of course she's not going to listen to anyone who tells her she's wrong because well she's the PH.D and smarter then everyone else. Every time it blows up in her face that never ends up being a lesson for her. Like when Tim makes that remark after Bert and his wife left fighting about in the classroom an A but in real life not. That is really true. She always jumps to the most crazy theories with very little to support it or whether the people she's trying to "Fix" support it. Like Angela making Brad's lunch and doing his chores. She immediately flies off the handle acting like all feminism is at stake, and acting like she has this huge problem that needs to fix. Except of course its not a problem at all. Brad told her he never asked Angela to do those things and she never stopped to remember that son has never once treated his girlfriend like that. Tim ends up fixing not by some big complex psych way but by simply talking with Brad about sometimes girls do that because they want their boyfriend to like them and worry that they won't if they don't. That's completely normal. You'd think Jill would realize that because she was a teen girl and dated. She had sisters and friends. Its very common. So you would think after asking Brad why Angela was making his lunches and chores that would be the next logical remark to make. Because she's dealing with normal teenagers not 'stay in the kitchen' males.  But Jill doesn't because she'd rather think she has this great big problem to solve. That only she Jill can do. She doesn't take noticed that she was way off and that Tim fixed the problem not her. She doesn't take notice that she was wrong about Trudy and Mark. She gets mad at Tim changing the rooms even though he did just what she suggest tried to talk to Randy who refused to talk. Oh, no clearly Jill should have been home cause she clearly would have been able to fix it. Look at her great efforts when she's talking to Randy and the only story she can come up with is a bra story. 

Yes, Fred and Jill had the same problem but different reasons he wanted control and she wanted to feel superior. Jill grew up with that. And yet doesn't realize she's exactly like him.  She doesn't mind using him as an excuse for things. When ever she messed up and couldn't blame Tim for she turned around blamed her father for it. Because how he was judgmental or something. Like when she realizes she looks down at Tim's family and tells Wilson its because that's what her father did. He looked down at Tim and his family. Jill explains to Carrie who's starting to have second thoughts that it comes from Fred. While that might be true except we've seen Jill look down on everyone. She grew up with Fred as her father and still ended up becoming just like him. She didn't have to. She could have decided there was no way she'd ever be like him and be openminded to different things, to people. But she doesn't.  Everything comes back to Jill and what she wants. 

[readster]

Quote

es, Fred and Jill had the same problem but different reasons he wanted control and she wanted to feel superior. Jill grew up with that. And yet doesn't realize she's exactly like him.  She doesn't mind using him as an excuse for things. When ever she messed up and couldn't blame Tim for she turned around blamed her father for it. Because how he was judgmental or something. Like when she realizes she looks down at Tim's family and tells Wilson its because that's what her father did. He looked down at Tim and his family. Jill explains to Carrie who's starting to have second thoughts that it comes from Fred. While that might be true except we've seen Jill look down on everyone. She grew up with Fred as her father and still ended up becoming just like him. She didn't have to. She could have decided there was no way she'd ever be like him and be openminded to different things, to people. But she doesn't.  Everything comes back to Jill and what she wants. 

That's why I also thought it was a HUGE missed opportunity to have Lucille interact with either Fred or Lillian. I mean, it would have been great if Fred would have admitted that he respected Lucille for all the utter hell she had to go through. Yet, having his excuse be: "Well, look at your boys, one never can keep a job, one complains about you know, earning a living. none of us have seen the ones in years and then there is Tim." I would have loved Lucille to just then go: "Yes, because you hate everything that isn't the way you lived and who is the only daughter still married and with kids?" Hmmm... the daughter who keeps acting like you, but then admits she hates being that."