The Relationships of Grimm

[Xenavar]

Loved the kiss. Can't wait for more of these 2 "together".

[Darklazr]

Adalind should have been paired with Nick from the beginning and not that insipid Juliette.

[Xenavar]

Indeed. Unfortunatly I have the feeling they won't let them be happy for long considering Juliette is back

[OtterMommy]

Adalind should have been paired with Nick from the beginning and not that insipid Juliette.

 

Are your feelings warming to her, Darklazr?  I seem to remember you not exactly being Adalind's biggest fan....  ;-D

Edited February 16, 2016 by OtterMommy

[formerlyfreedom]

A spot to discuss all the relationships on Grimm - romantic, platonic, or Wesenic!

[TVSpectator]

I think that the Rosalee/Monroe pairing is the best on the show. 

[OtterMommy]

I think that the Rosalee/Monroe pairing is the best on the show. 

 

I agree...but I think it is because the writers actually took the time to develop it, which was the first (and I'd say only) time they've done that.  Plus, they were blessed with two quirky, likable characters played by strong actors, so that helps too.

[Darklazr]

Are your feelings warming to her, Darklazr?  I seem to remember you not exactly being Adalind's biggest fan....  ;-D

 

LOL.  I know, I know.  I like CC having watched her on GH.  However, I just feel at this junction in the road that Adalind/CC and Nick/DG would have worked far better as the soul mates from the VERY beginning, but like a soap opera fan, I just hate the old "rapemance" stories that brought us Luke and Laura, etc..  It's just vile, IMO.  What if there had been no rape or baby and we saw Nick the cop and Adalind the lawyer bonding over wesen cases with Juliette furious that the two have managed to put aside their previous hostilities and she moves back to just being a vet.  Eh.  I am probably overthinking the entire story, but rape is rape and Adalind raped Nick which ended in baby Kelly and that is just too nasty for me to get over.  I don't want the show to gloss over all of the damage that Adalind has done since s1, ep1.

I think that the Rosalee/Monroe pairing is the best on the show. 

 

I like that the show has one couple that are not a bunch of ho bag cheating cheaters! 

 

Adalind and Renard are gross with the sleeping with Catherine and Eric, and Adalind's penchant for drugging/rape.  Gross.

 

Nick and Juliette are just too bland.

 

Hank and Wu need love lives of their own!

 

Oh.  And I like that Bud and Mrs. Bud have this little family that we here about on occasions.

[OtterMommy]

LOL.  I know, I know.  I like CC having watched her on GH.  However, I just feel at this junction in the road that Adalind/CC and Nick/DG would have worked far better as the soul mates from the VERY beginning, but like a soap opera fan, I just hate the old "rapemance" stories that brought us Luke and Laura, etc..  It's just vile, IMO.  What if there had been no rape or baby and we saw Nick the cop and Adalind the lawyer bonding over wesen cases with Juliette furious that the two have managed to put aside their previous hostilities and she moves back to just being a vet.  Eh.  I am probably overthinking the entire story, but rape is rape and Adalind raped Nick which ended in baby Kelly and that is just too nasty for me to get over.  I don't want the show to gloss over all of the damage that Adalind has done since s1, ep1.

 

I like that the show has one couple that are not a bunch of ho bag cheating cheaters! 

 

Adalind and Renard are gross with the sleeping with Catherine and Eric, and Adalind's penchant for drugging/rape.  Gross.

 

Nick and Juliette are just too bland.

 

Hank and Wu need love lives of their own!

 

Oh.  And I like that Bud and Mrs. Bud have this little family that we here about on occasions.

 

I totally get what you're saying about Adalind and Nick.  As you know (heck, as probably everyone here knows) I am so disgusted with the whole "Nadalind" angle that I've mostly stopped watching the show.  If it weren't for the rape, and if this is something that had been planned since the beginning of the show, I might feel differently about it.  There are a lot of people out there ("out there" means FB and Twitter) that seem to think that this is something that WAS planned from the beginning, but I disagree.  Either the writers are completely incompetent--which they weren't in the first 2 seasons--or they are trying to retcon the whole thing.  But Nick and Adalind were never set up to be anything but enemies and there is no way you can retcon a rape.

 

I was actually okay with Adalind and Renard until it was revealed that Renard was also sleeping with her mother (and then she was sleeping with his brother) and it all just was too tawdry at that point.  But, still, I think Adalind and Meisner are at least viable--right now.

 

The only thing I have against Hank and Wu having relationships of their own is that there is already too much in this show and they shouldn't be introducing ay new characters until they clean up the mess they've made.

 

Awww, Bud and his wife--Vera?  Maris?  

Edited February 17, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Xenavar]

If it's rape, it is the lowest form of rape there is. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most vile kind of rape you could think of, what Adalind did was a 0.5 at best. There is a HUGE difference between a woman that gets her clothes tore apart and her body being abused by a guy (we'll compare it to the worst, here), which leaves her with PTSD and many psychological problems, and what Adalind did, which did little to nothing on Nick's psychological state (why should it? at the moment he was consensual). Come to think of it, Nick was only annoyed at best. 

Also, Adalind did it out of revenge, which I would argue is not your standard rape "motivation". She needed to do that precisely to take away his powers, it had nothing to do with taking advantage of him physically. 

I would also argue that a man raping a woman and a woman raping a man is completely different as to the consequences afterwards (you may not agree, that's fine). 

Finally, Adalind did change. It's very obvious that the gang affected her in a good way, especially Nick. If Nick is like me, and I suspect he is, he is willing to let a chance to the people who really do want to change, and we all deserve that. That would be different of course if he was still traumatized from what Adalind did, but he isn't and has never been.

All in all, what Juliette did is 1000x worse than what Adalind did. If for some reason Nick/Juliette get together again, THAT would make no sense. The Nick/Adalind pairing is much more believable.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Xenavar

[OtterMommy]

If it's rape, it is the lowest form of rape there is. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most vile kind of rape you could think of, what Adalind did was a 0.5 at best. There is a HUGE difference between a woman that gets her clothes tore apart and her body being abused by a guy (we'll compare it to the worst, here), which leaves her with PTSD and many psychological problems, and what Adalind did, which did little to nothing on Nick's psychological state (why should it? at the moment he was consensual). Come to think of it, Nick was only annoyed at best. 

Also, Adalind did it out of revenge, which I would argue is not your standard rape "motivation". She needed to do that precisely to take away his powers, it had nothing to do with taking advantage of him physically. 

I would also argue that a man raping a woman and a woman raping a man is completely different as to the consequences afterwards (you may not agree, that's fine). 

Finally, Adalind did change. It's very obvious that the gang affected her in a good way, especially Nick. If Nick is like me, and I suspect he is, he is willing to let a chance to the people who really do want to change, and we all deserve that. That would be different of course if he was still traumatized from what Adalind did, but he isn't and has never been.

All in all, what Juliette did is 1000x worse than what Adalind did. If for some reason Nick/Juliette get together again, THAT would make no sense. The Nick/Adalind pairing is much more believable.

 

I would respond to this, but it would just be a rehashing of what has already been said time and time again in this forum.  I'm not going to change your mind and you are not going to change the mind of what I think is probably the majority of active posters in this forum on this point, including myself.

 

I will say this, though...what Adalind committed was Rape by Deception, which is an actual crime in the state of Oregon and prosecuted as Rape I (obviously, the magical part would make it hard to prosecute, except in the Grimmerverse) and carries a sentence of usually around 10 years.  And it is not uncommon--google Rape by Deception and you'll get a shitload of really twisted crap that has actually happened.  So, to say that this was "lowest" form of rape is inaccurate and insensitive.

Edited February 17, 2016 by OtterMommy

[orza]

The show doesn't take place in real-world Oregon. It takes place in fictional Oregon where magic and fantastical creatures exist in secret among humans. Holding a fictional world in a fantasy TV show to real-world standard doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Real-world laws are not relevant.

 

Regardless of whether he is a real or fictional person, Nick is the final authority on his experience and how he wants to define it. If he is not defining it as rape I don;t have a problem accepting that and going with the story they are telling.

[TVSpectator]

I agree...but I think it is because the writers actually took the time to develop it, which was the first (and I'd say only) time they've done that.  Plus, they were blessed with two quirky, likable characters played by strong actors, so that helps too.

I totally agree that they did take the time to actually build up the relationship and that it DID pay off in a big way. I only hope that they don't mess up the marriage and have one of the cheat on the other (but with the current state of the writing you may never know). 

[OtterMommy]

The show doesn't take place in real-world Oregon. It takes place in fictional Oregon where magic and fantastical creatures exist in secret among humans. Holding a fictional world in a fantasy TV show to real-world standard doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Real-world laws are not relevant.

 

Regardless of whether he is a real or fictional person, Nick is the final authority on his experience and how he wants to define it. If he is not defining it as rape I don;t have a problem accepting that and going with the story they are telling.

 

I disagree with 2 points here.  The first is that this show has always been about the magical coming up against the reality.  Nick is a cop and real-world crimes happen in this show and are treated as such.  The show has also, on several occasions, dealt with how to deal with the magical in the real world.  What do they do about a guy who woges for only 2 weeks a year, eats kids, and has no memory of it?  What do they do with a woman who causes the death of men who are attracted to her?  These are things the show has dealt with.    The "real" criminal code is a factor in this show and I don't think you can pick and choose which crimes count and which don't.

 

Grimm is also a show that is very consciously in a "real" place.  Portland is almost as much a character as Nick or Monroe or whoever.  This isn't a show set in a world where the creators can decide what the laws are.  I don't think it is unreasonable for a show, set in a real place, that deals with actual laws to be accountable to those laws.

 

I also don't think we can say that Nick is the final authority on what this encounter was.  What if a 14 year old girl has sex with her 28 year old "boyfriend" and, yes, it is consensual.  Would she say it was rape?  Probably not.  Is it rape?  You bet your bottom dollar it is.  If a woman is beaten by her partner, but chooses not to press charges because she's at that point where she thinks she deserves it.  Is it still domestic abuse?  Of course it is.  If a store is robbed but the owners don't press charges, is it still robbery?  Yes.  The fact is, victims don't get to decide if what happened to them was a crime or not.  No, the event may not be prosecuted, but it still doesn't change what it is.

Edited February 18, 2016 by OtterMommy

[OtterMommy]

I totally agree that they did take the time to actually build up the relationship and that it DID pay off in a big way. I only hope that they don't mess up the marriage and have one of the cheat on the other (but with the current state of the writing you may never know). 

 

I will admit that I'm worried about this bit with a guy from Rosalee's past coming into the picture.  The creators are on the record of saying that happy relationships make bad television (which is crap for a show like Grimm.)  Now, they could handle this in a way that the conflict is not between Monroe and Rosalee, but instead between an outside force and the two of them together.  However, what has happened in the past 4+ seasons of the show makes me think that they are going to do the same old thing and drive a wedge between Monroe and Rosalee instead of putting the two characters in a situation where they face something together and grow closer for it (which the romantic in me thinks is MUCH better television anyway!)

[orza]

I disagree with 2 points here.  The first is that this show has always been about the magical coming up against the reality.  Nick is a cop and real-world crimes happen in this show and are treated as such.  The show has also, on several occasions, dealt with how to deal with the magical in the real world.  What do they do about a guy who woges for only 2 weeks a year, eats kids, and has no memory of it?  What do they do with a woman who causes the death of men who are attracted to her?  These are things the show has dealt with.    The "real" criminal code is a factor in this show and I don't think you can pick and choose which crimes count and which don't.

 

Grimm is also a show that is very consciously in a "real" place.  Portland is almost as much a character as Nick or Monroe or whoever.  This isn't a show set in a world where the creators can decide what the laws are.  I don't think it is unreasonable for a show, set in a real place, that deals with actual laws to be accountable to those laws.

 

I also don't think we can say that Nick is the final authority on what this encounter was.  What if a 14 year old girl has sex with her 28 year old "boyfriend" and, yes, it is consensual.  Would she say it was rape?  Probably not.  Is it rape?  You bet your bottom dollar it is.  If a woman is beaten by her partner, but chooses not to press charges because she's at that point where she thinks she deserves it.  Is it still domestic abuse?  Of course it is.  If a store is robbed but the owners don't press charges, is it still robbery?  Yes.  The fact is, victims don't get to decide if what happened to them was a crime or not.  No, the event may not be prosecuted, but it still doesn't change what it is.

No, Dateline deals with the real world, Grimm deals with a fictional world. They are showing a fictionalized Portland. There is nothing special or unusual in setting the show in a fictionalized version of a real-world location. The writers can take whatever creative license they want to when doing that. They are not accountable to the laws of whatever real-world jurisdiction they are portraying. Just about every TV show takes liberties with reality in service of the story, including shows that deal with "ripped from the headlines" themes. Creative license has been exercised for as long as people have been telling stories.

 

Nick is not a 14-year old girl and he doesn't own a store that was robbed so I don't any relevance in those examples.

[TVSpectator]

I will admit that I'm worried about this bit with a guy from Rosalee's past coming into the picture.  The creators are on the record of saying that happy relationships make bad television (which is crap for a show like Grimm.)  Now, they could handle this in a way that the conflict is not between Monroe and Rosalee, but instead between an outside force and the two of them together.  However, what has happened in the past 4+ seasons of the show makes me think that they are going to do the same old thing and drive a wedge between Monroe and Rosalee instead of putting the two characters in a situation where they face something together and grow closer for it (which the romantic in me thinks is MUCH better television anyway!)

 

Other than the Wesen of the week story, I am interested in seeing how Rosalee's story plays out and I doubt they will have her cheat on Monroe. Although, I do wonder how it connects to her and it is probably connected to her drug use past. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by TVSpectator

[merylinkid]

First of all, we have no idea how Nick is dealing with living with his rapist because well, the writers suck.   Also, we have seen he is really about protecting baby Kelly and to a certain extent a woman he thinks is helpless.

 

Second, no psychological effect?   Sure, except every time he has sex with someone now he is going to wonder if it's really that person or a hexenbeist in disguise.   That is one long term mind fuck right there.   

 

Third, it was not consensual.   Nick consented to sex with JULIETTE.   It turns out it was Adalind.   He never had a chance to consent to sex with Adalind because she hid that it was her.   I am quite sure given their history at that point that if Adalind had revealed herself and offered sex the answer would have been NO.  

[OtterMommy]

Other than the Wesen of the week story, I am interested in seeing how Rosalee's story plays out and I doubt they will have her cheat on Monroe. Although, I do wonder how it connects to her and it is probably connected to her drug use past. 

 

Oh, I don't think they'll have her cheat.  I suspect it will be something that this guy brings up some deep dark secret of Rosalee's that Monroe has trouble accepting, leading to a rift between the two of them.  

 

I could be wrong--I hope I'm wrong--but I do think it will be something along the lines of Rosalee's past brings up something that divides her and Monroe.  And that would be kind of like season 1 with Juliette not knowing about Nick and season 4 with Nick not knowing about Juliette....

[FormerMod-a1]

This is the relationships of Grimm and not the rapes of Grimm.  You can mention that you think someone was raped (or not) as part of a larger description of a particular relationship, but this is not the place to debate each other about whether rape occurred or the laws and/definitions of rapes in Oregon or fiction.

[Darklazr]

I totally get what you're saying about Adalind and Nick.  As you know (heck, as probably everyone here knows) I am so disgusted with the whole "Nadalind" angle that I've mostly stopped watching the show.  If it weren't for the rape, and if this is something that had been planned since the beginning of the show, I might feel differently about it.  There are a lot of people out there ("out there" means FB and Twitter) that seem to think that this is something that WAS planned from the beginning, but I disagree.  Either the writers are completely incompetent--which they weren't in the first 2 seasons--or they are trying to retcon the whole thing.  But Nick and Adalind were never set up to be anything but enemies and there is no way you can retcon a rape.

 

I was actually okay with Adalind and Renard until it was revealed that Renard was also sleeping with her mother (and then she was sleeping with his brother) and it all just was too tawdry at that point.  But, still, I think Adalind and Meisner are at least viable--right now.

 

The only thing I have against Hank and Wu having relationships of their own is that there is already too much in this show and they shouldn't be introducing ay new characters until they clean up the mess they've made.

 

Awww, Bud and his wife--Vera?  Maris?  

 

Oh, heck no!  I thought Renard and Adalind were wrong from the jump; she's way too manipulative and BSC for them to have lasted as a couple.  Catherine was just as manipulative as she put the moves on her daughter's man the day before Adalind failed to get the key from Nick.  And, yes, Renard was an ass for banging his girlfriend's mother and dumping Adalind for not securing the key.  However, what Adalind did to Hank was so nasty that Renard banging her mother afterwards put them on equal footing in the nasty department!  Seriously.  What man is okay with his girlfriend banging some dude (I know Adalind was not suppose to sleep with Hank...), but Renard was more concerned about the failure to secure Nick's key!

 

As for Nick and Adalind supposedly being written to end up together based on s1?  No, way!  Nick and Juliette were the obvious happy ending pairing, but the chemistry is just not there with DG and BT.  

 

Adalind could have taken away Nick's powers without there being any sex or a baby and still found a way to play up the chemistry between DG and CC.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Darklazr