Eastenders (BBC) - General Discussion

[M. Darcy]

 

That jury foreman looked so familiar but I haven't figured out why yet.

I figured it out - he was on Doctor Who - Colonel Mac in The Poison Sky and the Sontaran Stratagem.  Plus, he's been in just every other British tv series.

[Wootini]

Yeah, that twist with Phil paying the foreman to go for a guilty verdict was pretty good.

 

But I was very surprised when Max got nabbed. I honestly thought they'd just leave him on the run and drag this out for a year while Jake Wood was on vacation. Then when the truth came out, someone like Stacy would go off to look for him and bring Max home now that he's been cleared. (Of course, he'll still have to deal with all the repercussions of having punched an officer and evaded the police and all that…)

 

But now he's back in jail. Which I guess makes more sense because then in a year, he'll be released because that year will have been enough for the officer-punching and police-evading. The only question now would seem to be how much longer we'll have to wait to have the truth come out. I hope it's not the full year, because it's already been well over a year since Lucy was murdered anyway. I don't think I've ever seen EE drag out a story like this.

 

The only thing is I feel like they've written themselves into a corner. So many people know it's Bobby. And now Max knows it's Bobby but clearly no one will listen to him and he'll just go off to jail again. But when the truth does come out, Jane will have to go to jail, and probably Ian, too. And everyone else who knows the truth will just have to hope they don't get dragged into it or they'll end up in trouble for obstruction of justice or withholding evidence or whatever it is.

 

Which, to me, means that the truth will NEVER come out. Because it will cause too much trouble for the writers having to deal with the repercussions on all the different characters who have become wrapped up in it over time. And if the truth is never going to come out, I wish they would just move past it and let everyone get on with their lives and drop it so far past the back burner that it falls behind the stove entirely. Let's tell a story that ISN'T Lucy's murder investigation for a change.

[Wootini]

Gah. Of COURSE Lauren speaks to the cute Scottish cop who hates Max and wouldn't be inclined to believe anything she says anyway. I feel like any other officer might have taken her a little more seriously. Maybe. I mean, it IS pretty far-fetched...

 

It's so frustrating that it doesn't seem like there's going to be any forward momentum on the Bobby/Max story for a while. Although they very nicely set it up in the dialogue that he gets 20 years for murder and then 12 months for escaping. So in a year they can reveal the truth and find him innocent, and then he can be released because he's already served the year for escaping. Just as I thought. Nicely done, show.

 

And it does look like they're trying to distract us with other story lines, finally. Although I could care less about Linda's mom's new beau, it might be useful for comic relief. Glad Ben got exposed, but I really wished it had been Abby who found him naked with a boy. And I'm always happy when Phil is having a rough time of it… :D

[M. Darcy]

 

Ben got exposed, but I really wished it had been Abby who found him naked with a boy.

Even then, she still wouldn't believe he was gay. 

[Wootini]

Okay, I thought the new toy boy was just shining Babe on… now I don't know WHAT to think! Yikes! (He's very nice eye candy, though, I'll give him that!)

 

The Stacey/Shabnam scenes were heartbreaking. Rakhee Thakrar is SO GOOD. Although Stacey is being a total bitch to Martin and I can't tell if it's because she's off her meds or if she's just being a cow. :P

 

And poor Paul. I don't know why he keeps going for Ben, unless Ben is literally the only other gay boy in the area. I mean, Ben is such a freak. I know from when I was in college, dating closet cases is a complete pain in the ass. Paul should find himself a nice out gay boy. Can they bring Johnny back? Recast, even! Ben is just a waste of time. I mean, when Paul puts his arm around him to comfort him, Ben leans in, and then turns to him and totally initiates the kiss himself before pulling back in horror. Seriously? Get over yourself. (Honestly, as homophobic as Phil is, I almost think that if Ben just stood up to him and said, "Yeah, I'm gay. Get over it you ass," Phil might just respect him for his convictions… or not!)

[Decider]

Really?  All that time Ian stood up there on the railing of that bridge, Jane begging him to climb down, not ONE SINGLE CAR car went by then Kathy shows up and Ian gets hit by a car?  I wouldn't have been surprised if he ended up with amnesia from the blow and couldn't remember who Kathy was.  Ugh.  

 

I did like the scenes with Kathy, Jane and Sharon, though.

[M. Darcy]

 

And poor Paul. I don't know why he keeps going for Ben, unless Ben is literally the only other gay boy in the area.

Its like I say every time someone in the Square becomes a prostitute....get on the tube and go to somewhere else in London!  (in that case to find another job and in his case, he could go to a gay bar).

 

Heh, so when Ben reunites with Kathy - well, this is Abi my beard and this is Paul my secret boyfriend...and this is Shirley - I killed her best friend.

[M. Darcy]

So....is Kathy working with Gavin or trying to get away from him.  I'm confused :-(

[Decider]

Kathy is working with Gavin.  She appears to be having a change of heart now that she has seen Ian and Ben, but that could all be part of the scam.

I guess Phil doesn't believe in banks.  Seems like every time he needs money or someone hits him up for some (Shirley, Ronnie, etc.), he goes right to his safe and pulls out stacks of cash.  Sure must be nice.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Decider

[Wootini]

I can't decide from the way Gillian is playing it. She's very convincing both as Kathy assuring Gavin she's on his side, and with Ben and Ian swearing she's never leaving them again. 

 

I suppose it all depends on how long they're planning on keeping her around… if it's just a short stint, she can be with Gavin and then go to jail. But I honestly don't see them doing that with a beloved character like Kath. I feel like she'll help them rescue Phil and take Gavin down, and then deal with reintegrating herself into the Square.

 

(I will say that Gillian has aged so well that it's a little disconcerting to see Ian standing between Kathy and Jane… his mom and his wife look almost the same age!) :-/

[lianau]

My working theory at the moment is something like this : Gavin started it and Kathy didn't quite realized how deep he  had dragged her  into it before the shit hit the fan. Once "dead" she had convinced herself that Ian is an adult and able to care for himself and Ben better off having a stable upbringing instead of playing dead . Then Ben killed Heather and she found out about it and contacted Phil , breaking the role playing  and getting a glimpse into her old self  . Being back in Britain  does the rest . Now Gavin has a problem because he's losing his hold over her and we end up with the Phil kidnapping . Phil ,being the catalyst for Gavin losing control, is now used by Gavin as a tool to regain control . Kathy can buy herself out (not likely going to happen  , Gavin will just up the money he wants and cleaning out Phil isn't fixed amount of money) or she can leave with him again (the preferred outcome ).

[Wootini]

Okay, Dean is still an irredeemable monster, but I will grudgingly give him a half a point for hacking off Roxy's ratty extensions. ;)

[Wootini]

Yep. Totally could've gone my entire life without seeing Les in his pants… :D

[lianau]

At least he was wearing them , could have been a lot worse .

[M. Darcy]

So, Kathy is stealing from Ian now?  Geez.  Even to save Phil that's low. And, Phil's not worth it.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2015 by M. Darcy

[Wootini]

Okay, I'm going to need them to poop or get off the pot with this stupid Pam/Les/Claudette storyline.

 

I was really into it when it looked like Les was having an affair with Claudette and it was breaking Pam's heart. But now clearly that's not what's going on… even if Les WAS in his pants in Claudette's living room. Back in the beginning I was afraid they were going to cheap out and say they weren't having an affair, but she's a massage therapist or something stupid like that. (to explain why his tie was left behind in her place) But then they kind of played it like it wasn't a sexual affair, but Les could get emotional support from Claudette he couldn't get from Pam… which is actually kind of worse, if you think about it.

 

And now Donna catches Les nearly naked in her mom's living room and the ensuing conversation was that kind of frustrating soap non-conversation that drives me up the wall. You know the kind, where people don't actually spit out the actual words to explain a situation because it would mean they can't drag this out for another episode or two? It's all "You don't understand!" "It's not what you think!" UGH.

 

So what, is this Christine Les and Claudette's daughter from an affair they did actually have years ago? I don't know. It makes sense, but honestly, I'm not sure they can come up with any explanation that will make Les in his underpants make any sense at all. 

 

WRAP IT UP, EastEnders...

[Decider]

More speculation than spoiler, but I'll tag it just in case.

I think Les is a crossdresser and Christine is the name that he has given his alter ego, so to speak.  That would explain why Claudette was saying that the purse and other items in the living room were not hers when Pam was throwing things around.  Les goes to Claudette's to be able to be Christine.

In other news, Ricky Norwood has been axed as Fatboy, his final scenes will air around Christmas.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Decider

[Wootini]

OH MY GOD, that speculation is BRILLIANT! I would never in a million years have thought to go there, but it all tracks completely! And it's way more interesting than another illegitimate kid.

[M. Darcy]

Aw, I like Fatboy.  

 

Hopefully we will finally found out today what Les's big secret is.  I'm tired of waiting. 

[Decider]

OH MY GOD, that speculation is BRILLIANT! I would never in a million years have thought to go there, but it all tracks completely! And it's way more interesting than another illegitimate kid.

 

I can't claim it to be an original theory, it's been discussed on other EE forums for quite a while now.  It makes sense, though.

[Wootini]

I have no idea where other people would've gotten that idea a while ago. Heck, I didn't even think of it when there were more clues more recently. In the beginning it was clearly presented as an affair, but then there was something weird about it. It wasn't until more recently that there was more information that could maybe lead someone to speculate he was cross-dressing.

 

But oh my God, I'm just glad it's finally out there. Well, I mean, for Pam to know, anyway. Even if she is acting like she'd rather he'd had an affair than put on women's clothing...

 

I'm also glad that they had it come out this way instead of her walking in on him. Or I was afraid he'd say to go to Claudette's at a certain time to meet "Christine" and then walk out in some ridiculous ensemble. By not showing him dressed up, they're able to keep it from turning into a joke.

[M. Darcy]

 

Even if she is acting like she'd rather he'd had an affair than put on women's clothing...

It could be that if he had an affair it is a more recent thing but he's been keeping the other secret since they've known each other so that's a much longer lie.

[Wootini]

But still, in the grand scheme of things, I would think it wouldn't be as upsetting for Pam to find out Les likes to wear a dress every now and then as opposed to finding out he's been sleeping with Claudette for years… :)

[Decider]

I can see where the discovery of his crossdressing would be more upsetting to Pam since it is something Les has kept secret from her for their entire marriage.  Add to that his needing to turn to another woman for comfort in his times of need rather than her, even if that comfort wasn't of a physical nature.  For some people, that emotional connection is far more of a betrayal than a sexual connection (mileage may vary, of course).  I suspect Pam will eventually make her peace with it but in the heat of the moment of discovery, it's not so much about the dress as it is about the deceit.

[Wootini]

I guess an affair would be a little easier to understand. :D

[lianau]

Yes Kathy , your son and your grandson killed people and your other son  is a headcase . That's life I guess .

[Decider]

Well, that secret's finally out.  Looking forward to Sharon's reaction on Monday.  Surprised that the writers went with the "'ello, Princess" line -- how would Gavin know that Den always called Sharon that?  I guess that will be explained on Monday and all.

 

I am so not feeling the who's the daddy storyline with Stacey, Shabnam, Kush and Martin.  (If I recall correctly, Stacey and Kush never actually had sex, did they?  I remember them coming close but nothing actually happening.)  I did like Martin's not-wife proposal to Stacey, though not so much the putting her on the spot in front of a pub full of people after their discussion earlier in the evening.

Edited to add that this answers my Sharon question.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Decider

[Wootini]

That whole episode just fell kind of flat for me. The cliffhanger wasn't particularly dramatic because we'd all pretty much figured that out about Gavin AGES ago when this all started. And it's not like he was going to set off those fireworks with so many main characters in the room with him. Plus, Stacey seems to be fine and so is the baby, so no drama there. (I didn't think they were going to do a who's the daddy story because she never had sex with Kush. They just made out. Unless they want to retcon the whole thing and claim that they DID have sex but they never showed it to us. But that would be a hell of a cheat.)

 

I'm also rapidly losing patience with Lee. I know he has problems, but COME ON.

[M. Darcy]

So, Sharon is married to her father's wife ex-husband.  Small world:-) 

 

 

Unless they want to retcon the whole thing and claim that they DID have sex but they never showed it to us. But that would be a hell of a cheat.)

And, the two of them are not acting at all guilty.  I think if they did, they would look very guilty. 

[Wootini]

Oh, Sharon. You're such an idiot.

 

Guess we shouldn't be surprised, though.

 

Oh, and way to totally ruin "Hello, Princess" forever, EastEnders. Ick.

[M. Darcy]

What's the deal with the scan?  Stacey has always acted strange about it - she wouldn't let Martin look at it either.

[Decider]

The deal with the scan is that it shows that Stacey is further along in her pregnancy than she is telling Martin, so now we're in for another tired "who's the daddy?" storyline.  I have a feeling that Kush is going to be the suspected father but it will turn out to be Martin's baby somehow after all.

 

Upcoming storyline spoiler:

Dean is going to attempt to rape Roxy.  Ugh.

 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Decider

[M. Darcy]

I think that is the reason that she won’t show the scan but it kind of doesn’t make sense.  Unless you are a medical professional, can a normal person tell by looking at a scan how along a baby is?  The difference between what she is saying and the truth can’t be that far from each other. Heh, plus its Martin – she could show him a picture of a kitten and he wouldn’t know the difference.

[Wootini]

Exactly. I thought maybe it was twins or something, but when she was admitted she didn't want Martin to see because he'd know the baby was older than it was supposed to be, I was like: Seriously? It's MARTIN. I mean, come on. The boy is probably the dimmest bulb in Walford.

 

Also, I'm really annoyed that they're trying to make like Kush is the father of this baby. Because the show made a point of showing Stacey and Kush snagging and then pulling away saying they can't do this to Shabs. They knew it was wrong and stopped. So when the hell were they supposed to have sex, then? Do they think we won't remember that?

[Decider]

I have only seen a couple of ultrasound photos in my lifetime but I think an estimated age of the fetus can sometimes be included on them (i.e. 8W, 3D - eight weeks, three days).  It is only an estimate, of course, but that may have been what Stacey was worried about.  Agree that Martin probably wouldn't have had a clue even if it was printed out in big block flashing letters.

[Wootini]

I honestly can't believe that they're doing this storyline where Kush is the father of Stacey's baby. When were they supposed to have had sex? We only ever saw them kiss a couple of times. And the one time the snog got heated, they pulled away from each other and agreed that this was a terrible idea and they couldn't do this to Shabs. So, what? Are we supposed to believe that after they said that they jumped on each other anyway off camera? 

 

Ugh. I hate when soaps retcon storylines like this. It's almost as stupid as Ronnie going to Billy for help in taking down Dean. ;)

[Wootini]

Can't believe Ronnie passed up that opportunity. A little shove and Dean would've gone right over that railing. Then just slam your head into the wall to make it look like he beat you, and you've got a story that nobody aside from Roxie and Shirley would've questioned. :P

[M. Darcy]

 

Ugh. I hate when soaps retcon storylines like this. It's almost as stupid as Ronnie going to Billy for help in taking down Dean

Exactly!  I still don't buy they slept together and really...Ronnie....she has met Billy before!

 

Aw, Jake got fired as the Geiko lizard.  They wanted him to take a pay cut and he refused.

[Wootini]

It's nice to see Billy enjoy a bit of happiness. Being EE, I'm sure it won't last long, but I'll enjoy it while he does. :D

 

I'm glad this night is finally over. Watching Ronnie lose it while Dean swans around was driving me up the wall. I need her to call Vincent to have Dean taken care of. Unless he only owed her the one favor, in which case, she totally wasted it on Charlie.

 

I assume Dean is going to just get worse and worse as we near Christmas, and hopefully he'll be the one to die during the annual EE holiday drama-fest. (Maybe at Mick and Linda's New Year's nuptials? Hopefully not at Christmas, because then it would cast a pall on their wedding…)

[Wootini]

Okay, I will give some props to Mick for standing up to Shirley and basically being "You seriously wonder why I don't like Dean? HE RAPED MY WIFE."

 

It kills me that Shirley still seems blind to the entire thing. As much as it pains me, I want Dean to attack Roxy so Shirley will finally see her son for the sociopath he is.

 

Ugh, I hate Dean. And it's so awkward that he's new to the Square in the PBS shows currently airing in NYC and not yet that awful. Well, I mean, he did drug Stacey, so that was pretty much setting up his ugly personality right from the start, I guess. It just taints everything he does on the PBS episodes. Even when he's being cute and playful with Pat, I just think "Ugh. You're disgusting."

[M. Darcy]

Back in PBSland, Dean has been also hitting on Dawn and not taking no for an answer.  You can see the seeds are there for what is coming.  And, last weekend - the first mention of Jimbo!  We're getting a lot of the beginnings of the storylines that are happening now in England.

 

Yea!  Charlie is alive!  Oh Roxy.  I know she has issues with Ronnie but she's not the only one pointing out what Dean is like.  Listen to Linda and Stacy.

[TimWil]

Also in PBSlland we're watching the slow traincrash of a marriage of Pauline and Joe. It has driven me nuts that not once has it dawned on Pauline or those around her that maybe one of the only reasons she was drawn to Joe is because of his extremely close physical resemblance to Derek. I think Pauline was as close to being in love with Derek as she could ever be with any man following Arthur's death.

[Wootini]

Oh, on PBS in NYC, we're only to planning Pauline and Joe's wedding. Although I guess it's not a spoiler that it falls apart in spectacular fashion. It IS EastEnders after all.

 

I was very pleased to find out that Charlie is alive. I kind of figured they wouldn't destroy Ronnie and Vincent's characters with them killing Charlie, so I figured it was probably a misdirect. I also appreciate that EastEnders knows sometimes how to draw something out for better effect. If they'd revealed this a week or so after he'd gone, it wouldn't have been as much of a surprise. 

 

I can already tell that mopey alcoholic Phil is going to get on my nerves. 

 

I will give them some minor props for Ronnie's "arrest." I was super bored with the whole thing, having her dragged off while Dean comforted a teary Roxy, but then it turns out they're not cops. TWIST! Now they've kind of got my attention. ;)

[M. Darcy]

They never showed ID!  I don't know what UK cops are like but I'm pretty sure in the US they have to show their badge. 

[Wootini]

Yeah, you'd think the Mitchells would know better. ;) Of course, they had to get the story moving, I suppose. 

 

When Fatboy was snooping, I thought that would be the end of him. I know the actor is leaving the show, and I was afraid that they were going to have Vincent or one of his cronies bump him off instead of letting Arthur leave the Square for a "happy" ending. But if that cliffhanger is real and that's Vincent's secret, then everything changes. Black is white, up is down… dogs and cats living together… :D

[M. Darcy]

 

Black is white, up is down… dogs and cats living together… :D

Claudette not being a bitch.  Seriously, still hate her.  She talked Kim into selling the house behind Denise and Patrick's back!  Which, really, Kim...that only took two seconds to convince her.

Edited November 25, 2015 by M. Darcy

[TimWil]

I do think Claudette and Vincent's hatred toward the Mitchells has to do with Henry Hubbard's death-maybe Eric Mitchell had something to do with it? It was established in the photo that Gavin had that Henry and Eric knew each other.

I think Fatboy saw something in Vincent's files about Charlie and was going off to tell Dot. I think Fatboy's doomed. The moment I heard he was being written out I suspected that he would see or hear something which would land him in big danger.

[Wootini]

Well, darn. I was actually hoping Vincent was going to turn out to be an actual copper. And I swear that has absolutely nothing to do with my wanting to see Richard Blackwood in uniform. Honest! ;)

 

I really wasn't looking forward to Phil hulking out locked in a bedroom demanding alcohol, so when Sharon served him up a bottle of gin at the end of the episode, I'm hoping she's just going to help him drink himself to death. I mean, obviously he won't, but it would be so much more interesting to watch her give in to his demands and let him self destruct on his own so he can hit rock bottom that much faster. Then he'll get his act together and come back on the wagon. But I'd much rather watch this than him begging her for drink and Sharon crying about how horrible he's being.

 

And I REALLY don't want Vincent or one of his cronies to off Fatboy. I need him to just go on the run or something. Maybe the cops can put him in witness protection. I'm sure the UK has some kind of a version of that, right? :D

[M. Darcy]

Oh, Sharon,  no one regards you and Phil as a great love story.  Heh, and Aunt Sal agrees with me about Claudette. 

[Wootini]

Okay, I'm confused. Sharon's still moping around complaining about how Phil is drunk and violent, but she's the one who gave in and helped kick him off the wagon. So… she really can't complain. Ian had the right idea, telling Phil to just go ahead and drink himself to death. Maybe Sharon should take Dennis and go stay somewhere else for a bit while Phil either gets his act together or dies of alcohol poisoning. 

 

I will say that this Dennis is a lot less horrible than the other one. If it had been the other kid, I wouldn't have felt bad about his bike at all. I wouldn't been hoping for Phil to throw him a smack! :D