S17.E05: Community Policing

[Princess Lucky]

Hmmn. I didn't infer that the second shooting was a result of the first one, or that they really knew anything about it either way. More of a reminder that the threats they're taught to worry about aren't totally imaginary and that the results are tragic. I didn't think it was an unfair point or that sympathy is bad, it just abruptly changed the overall tenor of the episode for me. Which is how the show rolls. You're thinking one thing, bam mood change, bam credits.

In fact if I had inferred a connection between shootings, that would have seemed worse. Admittedly it's hard for me to separate this from the real world discussion, and I'd assume the writers actually want eps like this to run parallel with the discourse even though they've got the drama dials turned up so high. And in the discussion, there's a strong trend of feeling that the BLM movement is intrinsically violent, that there's a war on police, that the slogan is basically code for "die, white people, die". And that's why they need to be kept in line. So having that anger directly cause a police officer's death would seem to me like an extremely pro blue lives message which justifies mistrust of the community.

And maybe they intentionally kept it vague to get us chatting! Hee.

Anyway it reminds me of the Gamergate ep in that there's no way really to make people with strong feelings on either side completely happy. Nature of the SVU beast imo and for them to even try would result in some pretty awkward television.

I took the two incidents to be connected too. And I agree, if that is the case (though, yes, it's probably left vague for a reason) it basically lends credence to the line the cops used, it "proves" that cops are always in danger so they were right to fear for their safety/lives so they were right to shoot the kid.

 

And as Barba pointed out, they weren't actually in any danger. PD created a heightened narrative that made people holding guns feel like they had to fear everyone they encountered.

Exactly. And the shooting in the end of the episode furthers that notion.

 

And I love, love, love that yet again Carisi is the only cop who kind of gets it. He was still trying to make sure the officers got their best chance but you could see that he knew how FUBARed the whole thing was.

 

Absolutely agreed. Carisi had the right idea. He still stuck by the cops, and his comment about "hindsight" was basically a great one-word way to summarize the debate we're having in this thread, but his attitude was different from the start. His insistence on a warrant, especially, and the fact he was agitated and uncomfortable because he didn't have one. Also, Benson said "find the gun, the credit cards, pin this on him" whereas Carisi was searching with an open mind, pretty quickly realizing they had the wrong guy. Carisi didn't go in to find "proof", he went in to find the truth. That, and he didn't seem as butthurt as the other cops out of "solidarity", I guess, he wasn't mad at Barba (for doing his job! Like, Benson, girl, really?), he was even the only one to speak up in favor of Barba at the end there. I loved Carisi in this episode (and in all the episodes, but I digress).

 

Now, the "split second" thing, I get. There have been instances where someone has a toy gun, for example, and after the fact people say "but it was obvious it was a toy, the tip was the wrong colour". In that case, I will accept that the cop didn't stop to check, because if he did and if the gun were real, he'd be dead.

 

The problem is, those "split second" shootings of innocent people have overwhelmingly black victims (or people of colour in general). If cops went shooting people left and right, for fear of their safety, indiscriminately, and they shot white people too, in the same numbers, something tells me there would be more convictions of cops for those deaths.

 

And the episode didn't really touch on that specifically; I think it might have been interesting if one of the cops had some type of racist incident in their past or, like, a racist facebook post or something like that. Instead it was all "they're good cops, they made a mistake". Barba (I think?) did ask if the same thing would have happened if the suspect (or the description of the perp) was a white male, but that was it.

 

In terms of sympathy, I feel that a cop assumes the risk of death. A (black) kid who walks home from, like, class? No. If that kid gets killed in an accident, or due to a crime (like a mugging gone wrong), it's one thing. But if that kid gets killed by a cop? I have a hard time stomaching that. That kid has my sympathy. A cop who gets killed in the line of duty has my admiration and respect. But sympathy? I mean, on a basic human level, sure. But it's not the same thing. That's why I didn't like the comparison or the correlation or whatever you want to call it.

 

As I said above, if the episode had ended on another rape (and what happened to that storyline, by the way?) it would have sent another message; that the cops were too busy covering their asses/protecting their own that they didn't bother solving the actual crime. Which they didn't, but the episode forgot to include that.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Hands Up, Don't Shoot (Barba The Stink-Eye)
SVU's take on Ferguson, Eric Garner, and other excessive-force cases pits Liv and Barba against each other; Li'l Rollins's dad shows up.

[innocuouspuff]

And the episode didn't really touch on that specifically; I think it might have been interesting if one of the cops had some type of racist incident in their past or, like, a racist facebook post or something like that. Instead it was all "they're good cops, they made a mistake". Barba (I think?) did ask if the same thing would have happened if the suspect (or the description of the perp) was a white male, but that was it.

I think there's a bit of a theme, between this and the comments about the video, and I find it interesting that folks wanted a more cut and dry case. Because I think the fact that there's never any such thing is part of the point. Though I guess that it doesn't seem to have been well made, so perhaps we could have had some dialogue from Carisi or Barba about the impossibility of a case having a perfect victim. There's always something to say, that the victim ran or mouthed off or had a hand in their pocket and it could have hid a weapon. Or they were in trouble one time. (Carisi found weed or something in the drawer, or is my memory misfiring? But they didn't focus too much on victim blaming stuff.) And the officers, same. Not being able to find someone's paid subscription to Nazi Monthly or whatever is what allows the lie that race wasn't a factor, nothing needs to be done. The system sustains itself.

Plus, possibly too close to the Paula Deen episode.

Ending on more of the original criminal is a good idea, it would have been interesting. Showing that the shooting didn't actually make the streets safer.

Edited October 20, 2015 by innocuouspuff

[seb]

Just to clarify what others have said: In New York law, manslaughter 1 doesn't include an intent to kill. It's an intent to do serious bodily harm plus a resulting death plus, in this case, no reasonable belief that you're acting in self-defense. Murder 2 is the intent to kill + death + no self-defense Trial juries often compromise on it when there's a murder charge and an imperfect self-defense charge, but whoever wrote this episode was taking some liberties. Realistically, if the grand jury wanted to charge them with something more than a reckless or negligent crime, it should have been murder 2 for the two and man 1 for one who only shot three times. You can't really empty a clip into someone without intending to kill them. Or even the Jack McCoy favorite of depraved indifference murder 2, which doesn't include intent but, basically, a massive degree of recklessness.

 

On a shallow note, who played the family's lawyer? He looked familiar, but it may just be because he was perfectly cast as a young, NYC, public interest lawyer. 

[LeGrandElephant]

Was anyone else distracted that the police captain was the same actor who played a serial killer of black boys on an old episode of the original law and order? (I checked on IMDb and actually he's played several different characters on various law and order iterations over the years).

I kept thinking if that is procedure, maybe they should change procedure. I knew something bad was going to happen when the police captain said he didn't care if the suspect lived through the night. He should have been in some trouble for saying that and creating that climate and expectation.

I also thought there would be some followup on the husband of the rape victim having a brother cop and making a bad ID of the suspect. It seemed like there was something suspicious there all around but it was dropped.

I also thought the end was the rapist striking again. It was really unclear what happened.