All Episodes Talk: Season 7

[Joe Hellandback]

16 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Chances are it's not just some OOC bullshit on Willow's behalf. Maybe the gang was so fed up with General Von Buffy's "autocratic ambitions" Willow decided they needed some kind of counterbalance in case Buffy's "everyone sucks but me" attitude got out of control. What if Willow thought they were in need of someone who could defy Buffy, i.e.  someone in the same weight category?

W/X/K attempt to talk some sense into Buffy in Get it Done failed because none of them was strong enough or had a charisma/willpower to oppose Buffy. Kennedy had some sort of charisma but lacked the Slayer strength. Willow had her magic, but didn't want to use it against her supposed best friend for obvious reasons. Even Spike who was physically stronger than anyone else in Casa Summers at the moment didn't want to antagonize his love interest.

Therefore Faith wasn't just "another set of fists". She was probably useless against the First, but she could help talking some sense into Buffy in one way or another. Notice how Buffy had her way despite X/W meek protests in Get it Done and then how the "Mutiny on the Bounty" started the moment Faith said going back to the vineyard was a bad idea in Empty Places.  

I agree, there would have been no mutiny without Faith there to provide a new leader, not even Giles could have fulfilled that role. 

[Halting Hex]

I'm reasonably certain that Willow has zero interest in recruiting Faith, of all psychopaths, as a possible counterweight to Buffy.  Anything Willow might find troubling about s7 Buffy, she has at least double the same concerns wrt Faith.

I'll grant you that Willow doesn't have specific memories of Faith trying to strangle her, the way Xander does, and she may well not know about Faith signing on to the "murder Willow" plot in Döppelgängland or Fuffy's Willow-stabbing fantasies in Who Are You, but Faith's threatened her, specifically, with violence on multiple occasions (Choices, This Year's Girl), enough to make me pretty sure that Faith is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down Willow's speed-dial list if she thinks she needs help.  Making an impulsive decision to "reward" Faith after Faith was injured helping to save Angel is slightly within the realm of possibility, I guess (although I'm still really dubious about that), but the idea that Willow went to L.A. specifically to hunt up the girl who was the subject of the immortal "What I wouldn't give to have five minutes alone in a room with her…if I were larger and had grenades" line the last time Willow gave Faith any thought?  Sorry, not buying it. 

(Yes, Willow speaks of bringing back "help" from L.A. in Lies Joss Whedon Told Me, but maybe she was hoping to pry a couple of Fang Gangers away from Angel.  Or maybe she was just making an excuse to get out of the house/town.)

JMO.

[lembergwatcher]

Well, if Willow is totally OK with having Spike around for years, I guess she can change her mind regarding Faith a little. It's not like the two of them have to be best pals. 

Wasn't Spike the one who threatened Willow with violence (Lovers Walk) and even tried to kill/rape/vampirize her back in the day (Initiative)? And yet Will is cool with him walking undusted. Not only does she have zero problem with leaving Dawn in Spike's care, she literally saves his unlife at least twice: first, in Doomed when she insists they can't leave Spike alone at Xander's basement because the poor guy can kill himself; then in Entropy when she warns Buffy about Xander going after Spike (I kinda doubt she was worried about Xander because of the whole chip thing). 

Besides, it's not about Willow totally forgiving or even starting to like Faith. It's about Buffy's inadequacy and trying to do something about it (like, say, making some hard decisions). Maybe Willow didn't go to LA "specifically to hunt up" Faith, but ended up chosing her due to lack of better options. In season 2 Buffy hated Spike with as much passion as Willow hated Faith in seasons 3 & 4 (and she nearly killed him in WML2), but still accepted his help in Becoming, Part 2. I'm pretty sure Spikey was the last person Buffy would've turned to if circumstances were different.

And why should Faith's alleged psychopathy be an obstacle? Spike killed more people while being allegedly "mind controlled" by the First than Faith during her entire criminal career. Yet I don't remember Willow saying "I'm staying at Xander's, I'm not gonna stay under the same roof with this murderous Thing!" or "Buffy, we're not risking our lives for Spike!" She could've turned Spike into a rat after he became dangerous, but did nothing.

 So I'm totally buying it. Like I said, it wasn't about any sympathy for Faith from Willow, but about Buffy getting under everyone's skin. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 8/14/2020 at 3:27 AM, Halting Hex said:

I'm reasonably certain that Willow has zero interest in recruiting Faith, of all psychopaths, as a possible counterweight to Buffy.  Anything Willow might find troubling about s7 Buffy, she has at least double the same concerns wrt Faith.

I'll grant you that Willow doesn't have specific memories of Faith trying to strangle her, the way Xander does, and she may well not know about Faith signing on to the "murder Willow" plot in Döppelgängland or Fuffy's Willow-stabbing fantasies in Who Are You, but Faith's threatened her, specifically, with violence on multiple occasions (Choices, This Year's Girl), enough to make me pretty sure that Faith is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down Willow's speed-dial list if she thinks she needs help.  Making an impulsive decision to "reward" Faith after Faith was injured helping to save Angel is slightly within the realm of possibility, I guess (although I'm still really dubious about that), but the idea that Willow went to L.A. specifically to hunt up the girl who was the subject of the immortal "What I wouldn't give to have five minutes alone in a room with her…if I were larger and had grenades" line the last time Willow gave Faith any thought?  Sorry, not buying it. 

(Yes, Willow speaks of bringing back "help" from L.A. in Lies Joss Whedon Told Me, but maybe she was hoping to pry a couple of Fang Gangers away from Angel.  Or maybe she was just making an excuse to get out of the house/town.)

JMO.

But Willow had also gone to the dark side so probably has more sympathy with than before. Plenty of fanfic on their drive back from LA although it normally ends with an extended stop at a motel...