paramitch May 1, 2015 Share May 1, 2015 (edited) You know, as much as I hated this episode, the conversations have been great. Thank you all for some really superb discussions and insights.And those of you who were bullied, or picked on, and this brought it back for you? Consider this post a big freakin' virtual hug. Hey, at least we're no longer there. We're grownups. We made it out. And I am absolutely certain that in at least the majority of the cases, the people who bullied us grew to regret it. I know it. When I watched Will lose his mind, my heart was racing and I went back to being in elementary school, being the "weird kid" that didn't have any friends, being yelled at by a much larger girl while the other kids watched. I immediately got that helpless, scared, ALONE feeling I had when I was 9-and I was on my couch with my husband holding my hand, not on an island truly away from anyone that knows and cares about me. I don't think Shirin deserves to win, because she hasn't excelled in the typical ways I think a winner should, in challenges or strategy. I just hope that the backlash this episode and Will/Rodney/Dan have gotten causes Jeff and the rest of the producers to change how they handle bullying in future seasons. I'm not watching the rest of this season (but I'll be checking in here to see what happens) and won't watch next season, unless I see here that they've changed their casting criteria. Trixie (and I love your namesake so much, to this day) -- this broke my heart. But I understand it completely and felt the same way. However, I also hope that this episode, Will's behavior, and these discussions have shown just how pervasive bullying can be, and how it can mark someone for life. I definitely was extremely upset by Will's behavior and it caught me off guard. It reminded me of being 13 years old, and of the smiling kid who used to pretend friendship (a handshake, a smile, a gift) only so the later action (punch, push, laugh, etc.) was as painful and public as possible. (I'm just grateful I managed to be bullied in an era without social media. I was able to escape into my home and my own world at the end of the day.) I was similarly upset, if not at the same levels, by Dan's smiling total evisceration of Shirin a few episodes back, when they were alone together at the pond. Because bullying -- exactly as with abuse -- is about power. About someone who needs to wield it, or feel like they do. About someone who thinks they have it, and who enjoys wielding it. From physical power to psychological power to social power. They have the ability to decide if you will go home that day hurting from physical bruises or psychological ones. And many of the worst bruises are inflicted calmly, with a smile. All the better to humiliate you with. Which is why I truly wish there was a different word I could use, as real bullying has all too often been watered down into a term all too misused for overblown or unlikable behavior. What I'm talking about with bullying, and with my own experiences, is about someone who expertly wields fear and intimidation in order to victimize, scare, hurt, and humiliate someone else. I have permanent injuries from the two long years I was bullied to this day. I do not take it lightly. Dan’s first TH in episode 1 was along the lines of ‘You’re going to remember me, one way or another’. Because Dick is so determined to be remembered, he treats Sierra and Shirin like shit, to their face and in his confessionals, knowing that it will probably make the edit. And now this post-show tweet defending Will’s behavior towards Shirin. Don, you’re a piece of shit on the show and in real life. I will not remember you, Stan, and I am betting that most previous survivors will avoid you like the plague. I seriously won't remember Sam within a week of this year's finale, no matter what happens. What a goal for our reality TV world -- not to be respected, but to be gleefully loathed, just as long as you're remembered. Ugh. The treatment of Shirin has got me wondering what is it about her that makes her a target - what is this "scent" that bullies seem to pick up on? I know plenty of people who were nerdy/talkative/shy/chubby/homely/short/dressed differently/geeky/etc that weren't bullied. I have long suspected that it was how the victim reacted to the bullies - if you show it bothers you, it is like blood in the water to the sharkbullies. But I don't know if that is it, or if there is more to it. No one ever deserves to be bullied and I am in no way suggesting that it is the victim's fault, but if we understood what makes some better targets than others we might be able to help people like Shirin not be bullied. In some ways, I'd say that (especially for those already bullied once), there is certainly a 'scent' of trepidation or fear that bullies/abusers pick up on. They get off on fear and can scent it unerringly. But even in the beginning, other than difference, I don't think there's one single formula to those who get picked on. I think it starts with fear or trepidation in most cases, but I also think it can just as easily start with the opposite -- an unwillingness to back down, a commitment to standing up for an even weaker person, a stubborn willingness to be different. I definitely don't think there is some specific formula to avoiding bullying (and for me that whole outlook could be seen as blaming the victim, which is definitely a POV I dislike and would definitely want to avoid). I really think in most cases, there isn't something they do that makes them 'trigger' the bully. They are just usually outsiders. Smaller. Shyer. Homelier. More awkward. They walk slower. They have a visible handicap. They flinch. They blink. It's the same thing that causes a predator to pick a limping animal on the savannas. 1. Having no/few friends. Once I made friends, even with not-the-most-popular kids, the bullying types started to accept or ignore me. Didn't Shirin's position degrade substantially once Max left? 2. Not currying favor. If you appear to not care to be popular/pretty/beholden to the group or social hierarchy, you may become a target. If you are different and don't actively attempt to try to conform (clothes, hair, behavior, etc.) you might be a target. Bullies just want their own positions validated. This could clearly apply to Shirin. People say she's "annoying," but that could mean that Shirin doesn't really care (or appear to care) if anyone likes or approves of her. The bottomless dish-washing is a notable example. American society is notably hostile to women especially who don't give a fuck if you like them or not. Contrast Shirin's treatment to that of Agent Pink Panties for instance. I think kids who are different in some way who also are doing their own thing without caring about fitting in (whether through intention or by nature) AND who have no or very few friends are often bullied. Ironically,these qualities often make for the most successful, creative, inventive people in adulthood. It doesn't surprise me that Shirin has found success in her particular field. I was a military kid too, and think you make some good perceptive points -- certainly, being the perpetual "new kid" is a big initial hurdle right off the bat! However, one heartbreaking aspect of bullying that I would point out is that plenty of the victims do start out with friends, but if it's a concentrated pack thing -- as it was with me -- your friends all dissipate unless you are very, very lucky in your friends. It's just a lot of pressure and my friends were picked on simply for being seen with me, so it was easier to simply cut ties, and I totally understand that years later. I suspect this was also the case with Shirin and the tribe after the merge -- except for her fellow outsiders, the others probably figured it was best to clam up and not make waves. On your other point, the first thing that will set people off is (IMO) visible difference. I had some hurdles to overcome right away -- I wasn't cute, I was poor (so my clothes were terrible), I was born with CP, and while I was able to mask most of the symptoms after years of therapy, if I got tired, I limped a bit, and it was just enough to add to the list. And while I constantly attempted to learn to blend, I just wasn't very good at it. I'll add that I think Shirin is adorable. The irony is, in real life, in the tech world, she's probably very attractive, funny and comfortable with herself. She's a skinny little thing with long hair who probably cleans up great. But in show terms, I think she set out being very confident in who she had become, not caring if people thought it was weird, and then she appeared to be (sadly) shocked at how very much she seemed to have offput people simply by being herself. Add to this that Shirin is physically tiny, and that I do think added to perception that she was 'safe' to berate and treat like crap -- especially when she'd already set herself apart from the group with her little idiosyncrasies. I've wondered this too. I keep thinking so what if she's annoying. Many people are annoying, in life and in this season. Will, Dan, Rodney are all annoying. As are other players I'm forgetting names of (I missed a couple of eps and don't know everyone's names) So why single out Shirin? Are the other annoying people somehow "cool" despite being annoying and she is not? So it's OK to single her out and claim all bad behaviour towards her is OK because she's annoying? My answer here is that social behavior has a certain amount of coinage. Alpha male social behavior is measured differently and just doesn't seem to be the same kind of handicap. While farting and being a misogynistic ass may be annoying, there is a large segment of society and pop culture ready to accept or even embrace such behavior (and, to be fair, plenty of people in the game have commented on hating both Dan and Rodney). In addition, I think Rodney and Dan to an extent are protected because they shrug if people are annoyed by them and (if possible) just get louder. They are protected by a kind of invisible shield -- they don't care. They won't cry if someone yells at them. They'll be defensive if outcast but in a weird way, to me, they are protected by a kind of arrogance in which they cannot truly imagine themselves as outcasts. Maybe that's the 'scent' we're talking about here, from Shirin and from the bullied: They care. The words and wounds hurt. They are unable to act like it doesn't matter. They're unable to shrug off ugliness, and their very sensitivity actually means it hurts more. Whereas Rodney would just go, "Ahhhh, fuck all 'a you." Where to start? She's a woman, she's small, she's not exceptionally pretty, she doesn't have any real friends there yet expects people to defend her, she goes out of her way to make herself a target, and she's passive when she's attacked. She's bully's dream. For fuck's sake, when Dan was ripping into her about how weak her mind is my head was exploding with comebacks and insults that would have shut his pie hole but she didn't say anything, at least not the way they edited the scene. I think at first in that scene, Shirin thought that an actual dialogue was going to be possible with Dan. I also think she was trying to stay non-confrontational. I just think she wasn't aware in that scene until it was too late that this wasn't a conversation Dan was having, it was a verbal toxic dump. Dan needed to spew out some ugliness and frustration, and found Shirin alone, and was joyfully able to do that without consequence. I actually think he may even have deluded himself that he was "helping" her. All of this has extra poignance when I go back to Shirin's early days on "Survivor," and she was just so ecstatic to be there and so excited to be part of it. Part of it, part of the group, part of this pop culture experience she loved. And then within just a few episodes, the tearful realization she has in her confessional when she realizes, "Wow, everyone hates me," is kind of moving to me in retrospect because it really seemed to shatter her. She thought she was simply being strong and quirky and cool, the person she had grown up to be, but all everyone else saw was this weird little woman who wouldn't shut up. And yet -- she did regroup. She pulled herself together. She assimilated to a degree. And she found a few other people who were genuinely supportive and kind. And I will always like Mike for sticking up for her, not just for standing up against a much larger group, but for actually walking into that closed circle and saying, "Nope, you don't get to eviscerate her personally like this," and for physically walking her out of the situation. It was a really kind, caring thing to do. In a way, ultimately, this whole situation is kind of weirdly one of the things I like about "Survivor." I like it on a sociological level. I like watching people become their best and worst selves when faced with intimidating physical and social dynamics. And even though I hated this episode, I was proud of Shirin for attempting to be civil, and for attempting to be strong. I liked Mike for being a nice person. I liked that America gets to judge each and every one of these people for the decisions they made here. Edited May 1, 2015 by paramitch 12 Link to comment
Trixie Belden May 1, 2015 Share May 1, 2015 Trixie (and I love your namesake so much, to this day) -- this broke my heart. But I understand it completely and felt the same way. However, I also hope that this episode, Will's behavior, and these discussions have shown just how pervasive bullying can be, and how it can mark someone for life. I definitely was extremely upset by Will's behavior and it caught me off guard. It reminded me of being 13 years old, and of the smiling kid who used to pretend friendship (a handshake, a smile, a gift) only so the later action (punch, push, laugh, etc.) was as painful and public as possible. (I'm just grateful I managed to be bullied in an era without social media. I was able to escape into my home and my own world at the end of the day.) Maybe that's the 'scent' we're talking about here, from Shirin and from the bullied: They care. The words and wounds hurt. They are unable to act like it doesn't matter. They're unable to shrug off ugliness, and their very sensitivity actually means it hurts more. Whereas Rodney would just go, "Ahhhh, fuck all 'a you." And I will always like Mike for sticking up for her, not just for standing up against a much larger group, but for actually walking into that closed circle and saying, "Nope, you don't get to eviscerate her personally like this," and for physically walking her out of the situation. It was a really kind, caring thing to do. Awww, thank you so much paramitch :) I think you're exactly right about people who are bullied tending to be the people who are more sensitive and aren't able to hide their feelings very well. Also, I think that once someone becomes "that kid", it's very difficult to change the dynamic. I know for myself, I was always "weird" until I moved to another state, then to my immense shock, I was the cool girl who made friends easily and was popular. Once Shirin was on the outs, nobody was going to let her back in, except Mike. 3 Link to comment
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