Wesen: They're So Unusual

[Actionmage]

Okay. What's the deal with Renard's snake guy? He's as helpful as a pile of hair when Monroe's in danger and his boss is all "Find him now."

 

Now Renard has him, and/or his crew, looking for Kelly and Diana? As I posted in the episode thread, I think he'll give himself away- or possibly Diana will know he's around- and set Kelly off. I've thought about it and maybe he won't die, and he shouldn't just because he's less than helpful to his boss.  Renard just needs to fire his ass though, if he can't seem to do anything right, on-screen anyway.  I also liked his dubious look to Renard when Renard told him he was looking for a grimm.

[Prevailing Wind]

I thought it was "sack of hair" as determined by Mrs. Triandos' mother, the matriarch of the dancing naked idiot family.  <giggle>

[OtterMommy]

 

Of course, that would still mean Sean is half Zauberbiest and half something else Wesen. And that's another thing they haven't explained - what happens when two Wesen of different species/varieties mate? If Rosalee and Monroe have a child, what would it be? Would it be either Blutbad or Fuchsbau? Or could it be some weird hybrid of the two? We've yet to see any Wesen hybrids on this show.

 

 

A couple of points on this.  Do we know that Renard is "half" Zauberbeist or just a Zauberbiest?  I mean, Nick's mom was a Grimm and his father (as far we know) was not, but that doesn't make him "half Grimm."

 

I also am holding on to my belief that Hexen- and Zauberbiests are not Wesen, but something else.  No other Wesen seems to have the telekinetic ability they do (although, to be fair, we haven't seen that Zauberbiests do either) and you can't make or unmake any other kind of Wesen.  The "biests" seem to have a much closer relationship with Grimms, which makes me think that they-and Grimms--belong to some other order than Wesens.

 

As for Monroe and Rosalee--there was an episode, I believe it was in season 2, where they gave Nick and Hank a quick lesson on how that would all work.  If they had children, the children could be blutbad or fuchsbau or "something else."  But, I agree, I have to believe there are a number of "something elses" out there and I'm sure there are countless storylines that could come out of that.

[hincandenza]

A couple of points on this.  Do we know that Renard is "half" Zauberbeist or just a Zauberbiest?  I mean, Nick's mom was a Grimm and his father (as far we know) was not, but that doesn't make him "half Grimm."

 

I also am holding on to my belief that Hexen- and Zauberbiests are not Wesen, but something else.  No other Wesen seems to have the telekinetic ability they do (although, to be fair, we haven't seen that Zauberbiests do either) and you can't make or unmake any other kind of Wesen.  The "biests" seem to have a much closer relationship with Grimms, which makes me think that they-and Grimms--belong to some other order than Wesens.

 

As for Monroe and Rosalee--there was an episode, I believe it was in season 2, where they gave Nick and Hank a quick lesson on how that would all work.  If they had children, the children could be blutbad or fuchsbau or "something else."  But, I agree, I have to believe there are a number of "something elses" out there and I'm sure there are countless storylines that could come out of that.

 

It's not clear what all the "branches" of the magical family tree are yet, or how those Punnett squares all work (hence my own speculative post earlier).  We know that Renard is "half-Zauberbiest" because I believe he has stated it that way himself: that he is the "bastard" child of a Royal (his father) and his hexenbiest mistress, and as a bastard was greatly disliked (and potentially in mortal danger from) his own family.  We still don't know if Royals are just basically glorified mob bosses, leveraging people to retain power, or if they have actual magical abilities themselves.  In the former case, that makes Renard basically just half-human, half-Zauberbiest; in the latter case, that would make him a mix of that and yet another class in the Royals.

 

Wesenrein or no, the Wesen themselves mostly seem to marry and mate within their class, or at least within Wesenkind.  I don't know that we've seen a Wesen spouse and an oblivious human partner often enough in-show to know what happens when cross breeding occurs, much less whether Wesen is recessive only but Grimms or *biests are dominant, or what happens when a Royal and a hexenbiest mate, or a Grimm and Royal, or Grimm and hexenbiest, etc. 

 

Like you I think *biest creatures are separate from regular Wesen and more analogous to Grimms- as if who or whatever created the initial Wesen "type" thousands of years ago also created enforcer classes such as *biest, Grimms, and possibly Royals themselves.  They are basically the only Wesen class that have powers which defy even in-show explanation; even the dragon guy from early on, or the recent firestarter guy, or the zombie guy, are said to be doing some cute psuedo-biological trick to effect their seemingly supernatural powers.  *biests alone seem to have these paranormal powers and ability to cast spells that aren't even pretending to be semi-scientific.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Wesenrein or no, the Wesen themselves mostly seem to marry and mate within their class, or at least within Wesenkind.  I don't know that we've seen a Wesen spouse and an oblivious human partner often enough in-show to know what happens when cross breeding occurs, much less whether Wesen is recessive only but Grimms or *biests are dominant, or what happens when a Royal and a hexenbiest mate, or a Grimm and Royal, or Grimm and hexenbiest, etc.

 

I'm throwing this into the mix - Naiads.  All males are born sterile, so females only conceive underwater with humans.  I think it was mentioned in that episode that some males are OK with raising children of other fathers, some, not so much.  But regardless, it appeared as if the males had the underwater abilities even though half-human.  But maybe not all of them?  An open question I guess.

[blueray]

I'm throwing this into the mix - Naiads.  All males are born sterile, so females only conceive underwater with humans.  I think it was mentioned in that episode that some males are OK with raising children of other fathers, some, not so much.  But regardless, it appeared as if the males had the underwater abilities even though half-human.  But maybe not all of them?  An open question I guess.

I took it as it is dormant. So in the Naiad's case all children born carry the gene of their mother which makes them also Naiad. My guess is if a human and a wesen had kids there is a good chance the kids will be one too.

[Actionmage]

Why do you bring on an actress like Garcelle Beauvais and not use her?  For the better part of her five appearances, she has given mostly vague hints or insinuations. Henrietta tries to help Renard, who suddenly can't wait to have this knowledgeable friend of his mother, and she ends up looking pretty dead in this episode.

 

Now we know there are female klaustreich, at least.

 

Not sure how I feel about the case hinging on a "murderous spirit".  Maybe I'm out of sorts about it due to the back half of the season. It is an interesting take.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Actionmage

[Actionmage]

How is the Wesen Council going to take the killing of part of a neighborhood by Verrat-branded  hundjagers at the behest of a Royal? If death was the answer to : what do you do to end up on the Most Wanted is woge in front of marks as part of a séance-based swindle, then the WC is gonna just lurve them some of this.

 

Granted, the WC may not give a flying frak about Kelly's murder, but knowing that it'll set off Nick? Nick might feel the need to burn them down if they are so arbitrary and inconsistent. Even if the WC is a Royal-controlled front ( so the wesen believe they have some say over their continued existence when the Royals have final say in reality), Nick has exactly zero fucks to give. Blood is calling for blood.  Nick's friends may keep him from acting just yet, but I can't see Nick taking the Wesen Council's advice unless it's " We're armed; point us in the right direction."

[Actionmage]

Seeing my last post , I just thought:

 

What if the Wesen Council is stretched too thin, due to this Uprising being global and guerilla ( as it were *g*).  That would explain why Rosalee hasn't gotten any snotty directives about Det. Burkhart this season.

 

Which is a missed opportunity at world-building. Also, a chance to visit someplace other than Vienna, in order to see exactly how scared we should be for Our Heroes. Is this group the real deal or a bunch of deluded Werewolf LARPers out to stir the pot?

Edited December 4, 2015 by Actionmage

[Darklazr]

Seeing my last post , I just thought:

 

What if the Wesen Council is stretched too thin, due to this Uprising being global and guerilla ( as it were *g*).  That would explain why Rosalee hasn't gotten any snotty directives about Det. Burkhart this season.

 

Which is a missed opportunity at world-building. Also, a chance to visit someplace other than Vienna, in order to see exactly how scared we should be for Our Heroes. Is this group the real deal or a bunch of deluded Werewolf LARPers out to stir the pot?

 

I was hoping Alexander would make an appearance during season 4 and hopefully in season 5 with his hot self!

[OtterMommy]

I don't understand the rules for wesen/Grimm recognition.  I thought with that girl in the clip being quite close to Nick and looking at him straight in the face, she'd recognize the Grimminality.  We've seen other wesen do that, right?  Was it ever explained?  Why did they make such a big deal of Nick wearing sunglasses at Monroe and Rosalee's wedding?

 

 

From what I understand:

1 - Wesen have 2 different woges.  One is more impersonal and can easily be called up on command.  Only Grimms and other Wesen can see this. The other is when they are highly emotional or agitated (or just really work themselves up to "force" it) and anyone can see it.

2 - They can only recognize Grimms when they are woged...except for that one time in episode one when Monroe smelled Nick, but we won't talk about that.

3 - The woge goes away when they die, unless some sort of chemical is used to keep them in woge.

 

Also, I am once again stating my belief that 'biests, or at least Hexenbiests, are not wesen because:

1 - They have their powers even when they are not woged.  Other wesen do not.

2 - They can be made or unmade.  All other wesen are born that way and, while they can learn to keep their wesenality under control, can never get rid of it.

3 - They have telekinetic powers.  No other wesen have this power (although some do have strange powers, but those can be "explained" by tying them back to their--what?--patronus?  spirit animal?)

4 - They can revive and be revived by other 'biests.  Once a wesen dies, they're dead...

[ShadowFacts]

 

2 - They can only recognize Grimms when they are woged...except for that one time in episode one when Monroe smelled Nick, but we won't talk about that.

 

Ok, thanks for that, I couldn't remember how it worked.  They have to be woged.  That isn't a very good survival adaptation for wesen, is it?  Of course I guess it then evens out because it works in reverse for Grimms. 

 

As to recognizing the Grimm in town, shouldn't every wesen in the Northwest know by now who the Grimm is, his name, what he looks like, and that he's a Portland police detective?  Don't they have a grapevine?  For awhile in the beginning, Bud was leaving gifts and curiosity-seekers were coming around Nick's house, weren't they?  The Royals, the Verrat, the Wesen Council should all be keeping tabs on him, the way it appears Chavez was on Trubel. 

[OtterMommy]

As to recognizing the Grimm in town, shouldn't every wesen in the Northwest know by now who the Grimm is, his name, what he looks like, and that he's a Portland police detective?  Don't they have a grapevine?  For awhile in the beginning, Bud was leaving gifts and curiosity-seekers were coming around Nick's house, weren't they?  The Royals, the Verrat, the Wesen Council should all be keeping tabs on him, the way it appears Chavez was on Trubel. 

 

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

 

This show loses a bit more of its charm every time someone knows Nick is a Grimm.  I mean, I get they could only keep Juliette and Hank-and even Wu--in the dark for so long, but we found out in season 4 that apparently the other Wesen in the police department (it was presented as singular, but I'm sure it is/will be plural) all knew Nick was a Grimm.  And Nick certainly isn't doing himself any favors by telling everyone that he's a Grimm.  I would think it would be in his advantage to try to play the part of the normal cop, but then use his Grimmness sort of under the radar.

 

Another thing...we don't know how this "uprising" is going to play out.  But, I'm assuming it is Wesen who want to live out in the open?  I get that, as viewers, we're supposed to forget that the Wesen Council every was a thing and accept that Alexander can't save the day on this one....but,wouldn't the uprising's first target be the town Grimm? I'm just saying...if this was something that the viewers should be taking seriously, Nick really should be running for his life right now.

 

Oh, and one more thing about the 'biests.  I think that THEY can see Grimms when they aren't woged.  Remember, Adalind woged when she saw him back in episode one.  There was also that episode where Kelly showed up at Catherine's house and Catherine said something like, "Oh, great, another Grimm."  I haven't seen that episode in a while (and I may go and check it later today), but I think Catherine knew that Kelly was a Grimm just by looking at her.

 

ETA: Scratch the above paragraph.  I did go back and watched the episode to check and Catherine was woged when she saw Kelly.  So much for that theory.....

Edited December 10, 2015 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

Nick can only see wesens when they have woged which is why his eyes turn dark, etc.

 

I always thought Grimms were like Superman in you do NOT tell your freaking identity!  Good grief.  It is beyond dumb and dangerous to run around telling folks, "Hey, I am a Grimm" let's tell all of the bad guys so they can hunt me down.  Sheesh.  Nick should continue to push a suspect into giving information or some kind of confession, and if the person "woges" that's a cherry on top of a sundae, but to just out your Grimmness is really, really, dumb.

 

As for the upcoming wesen uprising, this is where Nick should be looking for another secure location for Kelly and that twit Adalind.  Or, Adalind needs to get a job and home where she can take the kid and Nick shows up on occasions to see his son.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Darklazr

[Actionmage]

From "The Rat King" episode thread:

 

The show has said that the Grimms were not just law enforcement agents, but had frequently worked for the royal families to keep order in both human and wesen worlds. Renard had many good reasons to dislike his family, and Meisner was seeking revenge on royals killing loved ones. But will grimms just pick which royal they find most suitable, rather than just trying to eliminate them?

 

 

I think a couple of things, but primarily that the writers don't know themselves. They have copped to not knowing various things over the past seasons, so how non-Nick Grimms fit in probably hasn't been thought about outside of fans.

 

Still, I think that Grimms have been set-up as sort of Marshals in the wesen world.

 

*Like Wild West marshals, they are the arbiters of The Law.

*Like some marshals, there are probably those who sided with local nobles/ landowners. That doesn't make them automatically Evil, just very flipfloppy. Especially if you have cash.

*Like Wild West marshals, there are very few to wrangle large areas.

*Like Wild West marshals, they tend to be lone wolves, job-wise.

 

I don't think Grimms were ever meant to kill royals, just maybe be an arbiter. That's what the Reapers were for, iirc- to keep Grimms from overstepping their boundaries. Grimms original mission possibly was to keep both royals and wesen in line with the set-down Laws. 

 

We know there is a Wesen Council that oversees the wesen masquerade, in order to protect wesen from normals' fear and lashing out. We do not know if there is a similar body amongst the royal families, though. Politics within the families? Yes. Oversight? Not known at this time. Other than Grimms, potentially.

 

Like some Wild West situations, there probably were some times where siding with a landowner/royal made sense and that person was actually trying to help. I remember some statement about individual Grimms deciding to work for royal families, but as a general group? I don't see it. Still, as I already said, that could change the minute someone decides that's what Grimms did however long ago.

 

I know this is mostly just my headcannon, but it's been pulled from the drabs we've been given over the seasons. If there is something more definitive, I'm okay with that too.

 

edited for spelling.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Actionmage

[ShadowFacts]

I think we've been given info that Grimms are so feared by wesen because they normally just kill first, ask questions later.  The books that were in the trailer always had those type of illustrations, and wesen in Portland are mostly in fear for their life when they find out Nick is a Grimm.  Nick doesn't do that and that's why he's different than his ancestors. 

 

My big question mark in the cartoon bubble over my head is about the royals.  Now that they are "defeated" I suppose we won't learn much more.  But what I don't get is whether they are royalty in the present political world, or just in the realm of the wesen.  I think when Eric was blown up we saw a tv news caption that named him as a prince so that would suggest real prince from Austria.  Shouldn't the missing king be in the news, too?  Are the other 6 royal families similarly real royalty?  Or just with dominion over wesen in their part of the world?  Anybody?  Maybe this is another one of those things that has been touched on that I've missed.  A wiki article says he was a prince and that Vienna was in mourning, but wikis contain plenty of misstatements.

[OtterMommy]

My big question mark in the cartoon bubble over my head is about the royals.  Now that they are "defeated" I suppose we won't learn much more.  But what I don't get is whether they are royalty in the present political world, or just in the realm of the wesen.  I think when Eric was blown up we saw a tv news caption that named him as a prince so that would suggest real prince from Austria.  Shouldn't the missing king be in the news, too?  Are the other 6 royal families similarly real royalty?  Or just with dominion over wesen in their part of the world?  Anybody?  Maybe this is another one of those things that has been touched on that I've missed.  A wiki article says he was a prince and that Vienna was in mourning, but wikis contain plenty of misstatements.

 

Shhhh!  You aren't supposed to ask questions about the Royals!!!!  The writers told you that Nick single-handedly defeated every single one of them with his mad Grimm skills! Accept it!  What are you?  An intelligent viewer or something?????

 

(My guess is that this is just another example of the truly bad story crafting we'e come to expect, even if we're not willing to accept, from this show).

[Prevailing Wind]

I think they made a mistake by placing the Royals in Austria.  This brings up too many real-world questions.  It would have been better had they been the Royal Family of Freedonia* or the Grand Duchy of Fenwick** or Nerdo-Crumbezia***.  We would have easily accepted that and not tried to shoe-horn them into the real world.  Personally, I would love to think that Renard's grandpa is Rufus T. Firefly.

 

 

*The Marx Brothers' "Duck Soup"

** "The Mouse That Roared"

*** "Match Game 78"

[OtterMommy]

I think they made a mistake by placing the Royals in Austria.  This brings up too many real-world questions.  It would have been better had they been the Royal Family of Freedonia* or the Grand Duchy of Fenwick** or Nerdo-Crumbezia***.  We would have easily accepted that and not tried to shoe-horn them into the real world.  Personally, I would love to think that Renard's grandpa is Rufus T. Firefly.

 

 

*The Marx Brothers' "Duck Soup"

** "The Mouse That Roared"

*** "Match Game 78"

 

Replying in the "everything wrong" thread....

[Darklazr]

Grimms and Hundagiers worked for the Royal families.  However, there were wesens that did not have any issues with Grimms (the pig guy for example), and it looks like Hexenbiests were liked by the Royals.