Empire: What Nashville wants/wanted to be?

[Midru]

With the runaway success of Empire, in many ways a New York version of Nashville, it made me think of what Nashville is, and could be. 

 

Empire, more than anything, just seems to feel more real than Nashville. I don't know, that's my best stab at the difference. 

 

What do you think?

[Soup333]

I dunno if it feels more "real" to me. Empire is over the top, but that's what I love about it. I watch Nashville for a different vibe. It'll be interesting to see what others think about this.

 

One thing I will say for Empire is that they have a much tighter cast and no time is wasted on foolishness. If I want Nashville to do any one thing differently, it would be cutting the cast down to the ones that are essential to the show. No more Michas, no Jeff, etc.

[Sutton]

The first year of Nashville was the real thing and a success but then somebody derailed it and went all soap. You had Rayna Jaymes as a strong successful woman working in an industry dominated by men, kept her standards, not letting them run what she wanted career wise. I'm hoping that with the second half of season 3 it has finally found it nich again and we can get back to what Nashville should be a series of country music, artists climbng their way to success, ups and downs with everyday problems, lots of new songs and relationships that last more than one episode. Seems we finally got Rayna back to controlling her life and career again, got her out the fog the writers put her in and she's taking control of Highway 65, working hard making it a successful label. Callie needs to take back control of her series and get done what she started in season 1.

[madam magpie]

I tried to watch Empire and think the cast is fantastic, but found it too be a soap opera from the start. I lasted only an episode or two. I prefer Nashville's season one, which I thought mostly played like a character drama about people in the music industry. I wish they'd just go back to that. Cut the cast, focus on stories that actually contribute to the plot, tell me about the music industry, etc. I'm really enjoying the Rayna/Jeff/Edgehill/new label battle for that reason, but wish Jeff were a more realistic foe than a caricature. I'd also prefer to see Rayna/Deacon act like adults and deal with their issues instead of moping around like teenagers. That's also looking up now, though.

Edited March 1, 2015 by madam magpie

[Guest]

I think Empire is doing it better (for me) but it's early yet.  Most shows' first season is really good and then the best writers move on to other things or run out of good ideas, or something.  

[Artsda]

 

Empire, more than anything, just seems to feel more real than Nashville.

 

I agree, I think casting has a lot to deal with it. 

 

I saw a quote in an article about Empire's success, where it said since It’s a show about the music business. If the people in the show aren't believably talented, the show would lose its credibility.

 

Which I think is an issue with Nashville, they hired actors not that incredibly talented to be pulling off their roles. Connie's the weakest singer and is supposed to be the biggest star in Country. It's not believable. Empire has people like Courtney Love singing, Estelle doing a duet last week, Mary J and  Jennifer Hudson this week. 

 

Empire also doesn't try to be holier than thou with the characters and embraces the soapiness drama that make them flawed and interesting to watch. Where as with Nashville, they do a soap thing  like hide a child for 13 years and then they sweeps it under the rug to have everyone instantly forgive after a couple episodes to prop Rayna even with Deacon saying she was right to hide the kid. The weakest link of Nashville is the writing, it's all over the place and not strong like Empire's.

[smiley13]

I have never heard of Empire and like Nashville just fine the way it is.  

 

I think the music on Nashville is very good and like that the actors and actresses sing for themselves.

[madam magpie]

I don't think I'd call the writing on Empire "strong." It's ridiculous like all soaps, in my opinion. But that show does seem to fully embrace its absurdity and soapiness. I get the feeling that Nashville fights it constantly because at its inception, it was meant to be a character drama. I do think that leads to a lot of its problems.

[smiley13]

I think Nashvile was intended to be soapy from the get go with the whole "aging" star versus the newcomer build up.  It evolved away from that competition though.

[madam magpie]

That doesn't strike me as soapy. The idea that a woman with a 20-year career in the music industry would be at a turning point and faced with much younger competition seems like a real problem, not an inherently soapy one. Juliette was always a little over the top in how she conived as related to Rayna, but trying to move in on an existing star's territory or market, entice her staff/collaborators away from her, etc. is actually something that happens in business. For me, watching both Rayna and Juliette navigate that and then become allies had the potential to be very interesting. It has turned super soapy, sure, but the premise isn't necessarily. The secret baby, alcoholism, drug-addicted mother, etc. plots were pretty soapy at first glance, but for me, at the beginning, they also rang true. People do have secret babies, they are alcoholics, they do grow up with drug-addicted mothers in trailer parks, etc. Real life is full of melodrama and it's possible to portray that realistically. I feel like Nashville did at first. But then came the cliched "you can't hook up your main love interests" followed by the car crash, and it all went to hell from there. You actually can hook up your main love interests, you can have them face problems related to a relationship rather than cliche, you can kill off drug addicts, etc. But if you don't want to be a soapy, that all doesn't generally come with nonsense like a nearly fatal car crash that actually wasn't or Mama setting up a con man and killing herself in the process or guys who sleep with their ex-wives' great love's laywer girlfriend.

Edited March 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[Midru]

Having now watched all of Empire, I feel better able to comment. Who knows if they can keep it up, but it really is pretty exciting and fun to watch.

 

Empire has a couple of advantages, I think.

 

First, the narrative structure, focused on one family and the larger arc of who will take over the Empire, is very strong. 

 

Second, the way they portray the people, is what really sticks with me. Nashville people are all kind of fake nice, or the producers are that way about the characters. Rayna has to be a saint, everyone is basically a wonderful person. Even Luke isn't evil, apparently. Only Jeff, and he is basically a cartoon. Empire lets people be imperfect and be forgiven, or act brutish but still be perfectly justified. And maybe Nashville is a little embarrassed to be a soap, or pretends to be something it's not, while Empire embraces its tropes and takes them to new, fun places. 

 

I don't know if this counts, but one thing I like about Empire is you pretty much know where every character stands in every situation.

[Lillybee]

I thought that Empire is a cross of a hip hop Nashville and the Sopranos.

[darkestboy]

I like both shows but at the same time, Nashville loses points for it's handling of Will's sexuality and Empire gains points for the way Jamal's has been handled.

 

Essentially they're very similar types of show - part music, part soap/drama and I do think Empire has more standout characters/moments that get you talking in a way that Nashville doesn't quite do.

[Midru]

One thing I know is missing: fun side characters. Emily, Glen, Bucky, Will's new boyfriend- all have such bland personalities they are a wasted opportunity. Cookie's assistant in Empire has very few lines but is hilarious!

[kismet]

I love both shows and I love that they are on the same night. Weds is literally my favorite night to watch TV now with my line-up.

 

Anyway, I think they are both amazing shows. But Empire goes big, loud and flashy, whereas Nashville is a little more subtle in its delivery. They both are soapy and character driven at the same time. Empire does have a tighter structure and set-up with its the Lyons being the primary family driving the plot. But I actually thought Nashville got a lot stronger when it stopped focusing all on Rayna's family. I feel like power and control are a major element of Empire. Every episode is like a chess game where pieces are moved in and out of play. Whereas the strength of the relationships is what fuels Nashville. Every episode is like another piece quilted onto the narrative. The are both stories about music and musicians, but the flavors and execution are completely different.

 

From a music standpoint, I have to say that Empire is a stronger show. From its inception it made sure to have the biggest names in Hip Hop be an active part of the show. When Timbaland is writing your beats, you're going to have a strong show musically. I know that Nashville uses real Nashville songwriters for their songs and there is a synergy between the real Nashville music scene and Nashville, but that isn't conveyed as strongly in the narrative. Also Empire by its set-up seems to show the day to day of the music industry, booking talent, making videos. Whereas Nashville seems to gloss over a lot of the BTS industry stuff and focus more on the characters' journey. I thought it might be different with Highway 65 becoming more prominent, but it doesn't seem like the writers want to write a lot of BTS minutiae. Which is fine with me considering I do enjoy the direction Nashville is taking. That being said, all the music from both shows is fabulous. And I love having music be so prominent. I love that each show displays the beauty and power of song.