S20: Willow Shields: May The Odds Be Ever In Her Favor

[radishcake]

Willow Shields is an American film and television actress. She is best known for her role of Primrose Everdeen in The Hunger Games. She is partnered up with Mark this season! 

[cali1981]

A 14 year old?  They have got to be kidding!  This really doesn't cut it for me and can be a major handicap for the male Pro especially in the Latin dances. 

[Shannon L.]

Yeah, I was perfectly ok with Zendaya in spite of her young age--I could've even handled a rumba from her (as long as it wasn't too sexy), but I think 14 is a bit too young for my viewing comfort.  But, maybe Mark can pull it off.  We'll see.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Shannon L.

[radishcake]

Wasn't Mark with Sadie last season? She was pretty young (16 right?) and he managed with her pretty well. 

[katha]

Her parents gave permission, so I hope they insisted that rumba for example is off the table in contract negotiations. It wasn't done with Zendaya and she was 16. Now we have new overlords, of course, and they thought casting a 14 year old is a great idea, so who knows...

 

It shouldn't be all that different from Sadie for Mark. She was 17 but the extra restrictions that came with her family kinda threw it into the same territory already IMO, he was constantly working around that. Apart from the rumba and the Argentine tango they forced on him, of course (and he adjusted those as much as he could, too). Which I dearly hope they don't do here. But yeah, it'll be a major handicap. There are just certain characteristics of the dances that probably can't be incorporated. How are they gonna judge that? Are they gonna dock points for that?

 

He's also mild and patient with young celebs, or generally with celebs who seem a bit overwhelmed with the experience. So I understand why he's their go-to guy for that type, but it wasn't necessary to take it to such extremes. It's a very tough assignment and a lot to ask of him IMO. Really side-eyeing the producers here.

[STFUFrank]

Why should the rumba be off limits? Mark was dancing at her age I believe on the pro-am level or the pro circuut for that age group and no doubt rumba was danced. I also believe Shawn Johnson danced one the season she won with Mark as a minor. That dance and the AT can be done without any perceived sexiness. (Zendaya's AT is a great example).

[spanana]

I guarantee they will not be doing a rumba.  It would be one thing if she was dancing one with another 14 year old or somebody around her own age, but the show certainly isn't going to have 14 year old Willow do one with closing in on 30 year old Mark.  I don't care that they are dancing together, but there is a fairly big difference between a 17 year old and a 14 year old.  Mark did well choreographing rumbas for Sadie and Shawn, who were both 17, but again, big difference between 17 and 14.  The show wants controversy, but there is going to be tons of pearl clutching if they go there, and I think the show is just going to avoid it altogether.

[katha]

The thing is: No matter how much you explain that it’s just technique, that rumba doesn’t have to be about "sexy"…within the context of the show it has these connotations and IMO there’s no way to wash that off completely. Same thing with adult teachers dancing with their kid students so they can pass tests etc. Or I guess, this is something that can be explained on the show: Mark is Willow’s teacher and they’ll be dancing together…making things "sexy" or "romantic" is a choreographic choice, and they won’t go there. The judges will not dock points for them not going there. The end. If it’s carefully handled, that might work. I trust Mark to know how to handle it, the show OTOH…jury still out IMO.

 

So far, there’s been some handwringing on social media from fans, but the press in general has been reporting that she’s the show’s youngest competitor, without much judgement on that. And an acknowlegement that Mark has a track record of doing well with young celebs.

[katha]

Dredging this thread back up to say what a surprise Willow has been! (Hope it's okay, even though I was the last poster in February as well...) I expected for her to be "not bad" and she seemed pretty together for her age in interviews. But the attitude she brings to the show and the performances she puts out there are really unexpected.

 

Apparently she requested Mark because she liked his "weirdness" (his quote, heh). And boy, it shows. The way she seems to have no fear, no inhibitions, totally trusts him and commits to everything he gives her is astounding. She's not the best dancer, obviously, though she's good and she's continuously improving. And IMO she probably won't have the fanbase to make it to the finals (though that's a general observation on SM stuff that's usually pretty telling...fake jeopardy this week was just that, fake jeopardy. Could be wrong, of course. It's speculation on all fronts with the voting anyway), but I really appreciate what she's already brought to the table this season. Particularly in a selfish fashion as a fan of Mark's choreography, and also as someone who really likes his dramatic work. She's bringing that to life and seems to understand what he's going for. No, she can't give the most perfect dance renditions of the pieces, but just seeing it take shape with someone so into it is a pleasure.

 

Also impressed how hard-working, focused and dedicated she seems about the show. Just from watching the live rehearsals, the way she's a typical giggly teen in the Q&A but then gives it her all when they practice is great to watch. I think her being so poised might actually work against her, if that makes sense? She's excited and bouncy and still clearly a kid, but because she's eloquent and detetermined and very focused and tough in the way she handles the competition, unfortunately that'll put some people off. It might take away from the "cute and harmless" factor some like to see in girls her age. Don't know, just a hunch. But anyway, I enjoy her very much. (-:

Edited April 7, 2015 by katha

[Serendi]

Agreed. Mark said something on Afterbuzz about her having the work ethic of the Olympic athletes? I think... that he's worked with. That's a rarity at any age. And she's so stoked!

[Rancide]

Willow seems to be a lovely girl, and I am sure life holds many good things for her, but I really do not enjoy her dancing and am somewhat confused by the judges' reactions to her.  To me, Willow does not have an adult quality of movement about her.  I never had a problem with any of the other under-18s on this show--all of whom were older than Willow--because they were young, but they were old enough that they had adult-level body control and generally moved like adults.  When I watch Willow dance, I see a kid dancing--a well-coordinated, tall, and talented kid, but a kid--and I do not enjoy it.  I'm not grossed out or bothered by it, and I don't have an opinion about whether it's appropriate or not.  I just don't care anything about it at all, in the same way that I don't care about dance recitals of kids who aren't related to me.

 

I don't quite understand the critiques.  I'm not sure whether the judges and others see this quality, too, but don't have a problem with it because they don't mind watching kids dance, or if they genuinely don't see the difference between Willow and the (adult) women contestants on the show.

 

I'm totally confused.

[katha]

But the contestants aren't being directly compared to one another, are they? And IMO that is fair to a certain extent on a show like that. Those 7s and 8s for Patti, Noah and Suzanne also wouldn't ever stand up in "absolute terms" against Riker, Rumer and Nastia. With Willow this is the case as well, even though to a lesser extent. I think people tend to forget that a bit because she's young and looks outwardly comparable to the three frontrunners in abilities. But she's over a decade younger, she hasn't got an adult's body yet and also doesn't have the strength and quality of movement that goes with it.

 

They get scored according to the expectations the judges have about their abilities. So I do think in that context it's okay to be a bit more lenient with Willow than with Nastia, Riker and Rumer. She's got some limitations both when it comes to performance and when it comes to physical abilities that go with her youth and that she probably can't do anything about (like youthful projection, not always having her limbs under control, lack of strength, moving like a kid...because she's a kid). I mean, of course the judges shouldn't get as indulgent as with Patti or Suzanne, but IMO it's okay to say "we're a bit more forgiving than with Nastia, Rumer and Riker."

 

So I do think it's fair that for Willow to earn an 8,9 it takes a bit less than for  the leading troika and that the judges keep in mind that she comes with certain limitations that can't be trained away. Or at least it's a situation where Mark would potentially risk her well-being through injuries etc. if he tried to coach her like he would an adult, because she doesn't have an adult's body yet.  She also doesn't have an adult's coping mechanisms in place yet, I don't care how poised she acts in interviews. So there are also limits when it comes to applying pressure on her that he has to keep in mind. Not to mention the pearl-clutching that would start if he tried to get her to perform like a woman.

Edited April 13, 2015 by katha

[Rancide]

Patti, Suzanne, and Noah aren't getting 10s.  You're right this show has a long history of using a different scale for contestants who for whatever insurmountable reason (usually age) aren't able to do what the frontrunners are doing, but that's usually meant giving them 7s or occasionally 8s, not 9s and 10s--enough to help keep them around over people who are neither good nor entertaining (e.g. Monica Seles, Jack Wagner, etc.), but not enough to give anyone the impression the judges think they have a shot against the Nastias and Meryls of the show. 

 

Meh.  Maybe I'm just cranky because I'm not interested in watching kids dance.  For all her limitations, I enjoy Patti at least 20 times more.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Rancide

[katha]

I think it's an agree to disagree thing, but I just don't think the scoring is ever absolute, even amongst contenders. Last season a ten for Alfonso wasn't the same as a ten for Bethany, Janel and Sadie. Otherwise the three women would have never gotten any. A ten for Amy and James or even Candace meant a different thing than a ten for Meryl. And at this point Willow is doing content that is comparable to the frontrunners, doing it well and she is improving every week. I'd say dance-wise she is a contender and there's nothing wrong with the judges saying so. There are several contenders this season. Her fanbase is questionable vote-wise, because it's very young, but the performances she's put out there have been very impressive so far IMO.

 

Janel and Bethany got 40ies on their jazz routines last season, then their scores normalized the next week with more structured dances that had rules. James got a 40 for his contemporary in season 18, everyone freaked out, the next week his scores normalized as he had a ballroom dance. Jazz and contemporary for the better dancers on this show get scored on the principle "it looked cool, you performed it well, here have a ten!". That's it. It's ridiculous, but obviously they don't know any better, so this practice is here to stay. Same will happen with Willow. She's got a foxtrot, she'll be in hold, there are rules she'll have to follow, technique she'll have to master, her scores will normalize. It's nothing new, that's just the nonsensical way they do contempo and jazz scoring on this show.

[calipiano81]

For me, Willow is absolutely up there with Rumer, Nastia, and Riker and there is no need to judge her on a different level. I love her performance quality and her commitment to the characters Mark gives her.

Technique-wise, she is improving, but I also think Willow has some strengths going for her (and it's not like the Top 3 are without their own technical issues). She has great posture and she does create some really nice shapes and lines. While some may comment on Mark's use of themes, costumes, and production, in spite of those things, he really has been giving Willow proper content and she has been handling everything well IMO.

[tearbender]

I agree. I do hope to see her in the finals. Her performances are definitely getting to be a bit much with production, but I think she is a fine performer and there's a genuine earnestness and determination in her routines that's refreshing to see.  Her Argentine Tango remains my favorite dance of hers because, while it was definitely flawed, she just threw herself into the performance and the lifts and really committed to it. I do see improvement with her, which is one thing I'll say for Mark; despite the kitchen sinks he likes to throw in every routine his partners usually display good hip movement and arm placement. I feel like he's one of the few pros nowadays who doesn't give up on teaching technique halfway through the competition.

[katha]

Thing is, I think the way Mark uses concept and production this season mostly enhances Willow's dancing. I agree that it's a double-edged sword and that he was on the brink of "too much" one or two times already, though IMO no shark-jumping so far.  But then I'm someone who doesn't believe that "do pure dance" is something that would serve her all that well. Perhaps in dances like quickstep or jive or even jazz, but in about everything else there's the risk that it will look like the cha-cha: A middle schooler dancing at a school dance with her babysitter/chaperone. It diminished her and together with going first was probably to blame for her too low scores. It allowed the judges to brush her aside and not take her seriously.

 

And yeah, he's using costumes and production but apart from the contempo where admittedly it was a lot of staging and troupe, it's been Willow and him doing the dances (the battle with the cards last week was also a Willow solo, so focus was on her). And technique and dance content isn't being neglected, she's doing a lot every week and she's constantly improving on it. The narratives he's creating for her also give her the opportunity to show what she can do as a performer and IMO she's been very engaging and powerful so far. Whereas with "Willow as Willow" as some are demanding, you run the risk of her looking like the kid she is, losing the authority she has shown in various characters and being again forgettable like the first week.  It wouldn't be bad to go without troupe for the next dance or two, agree on that. But totally stripped down? Nah, I don't think that would help Willow at all. I also think it's probably not realistic to demand that from them when about everybody else has been using production just as much. The show is pushing the pros in that direction hardcore, is my suspicion.

 

Would love to see her in the finals, but I fear for her vote-wise. Even at this point in the comp she's probably the one celeb who is really going almost only on her own dancing now and how many votes that brings to her, her fanbase is very questionable. Luckily for her she's improving rapidly, she's dancing well and she's got Mark to do memorable stuff for her (which IMO he has to do as a strategy...nothing worse for Willow than to be pleasant but forgettable like on the first week). If that's enough, who knows?

Edited April 21, 2015 by katha

[TudorQueen]

Well, the odds were not, after all, in her favor, but she made a great impression on me. I understand the argument that fourteen is too young for this show, but she showed maturity, had a great attitude, and took in everything Mark offered her and did all she could to excel.

 

I fully expected to see her in the final four, and I'm unhappy about the fact that she went out before Chris, Robert and Noah. This is where the 'audience vote' can negatively impact the 'dancing' aspect of the competition.