TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[Rinaldo]

15 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I'm very interested in the Film Geek movie.  Sounds like my '70s life--heading to NYC repertory and art-house cinemas every week.

Mine too, with a few details altered. From 1970 through 1972 I lived near DC (playing in an army band) and for the first time had access to repertory cinemas (the Circle and all its offshoots) that changed bills every night. Finally I could encounter the old movies I'd only read about before. Those were the years when I first saw Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon, The Lost Weekend, The Thin Man, Topper, From Here To Eternity, and so many more including (despite what people still try to say, it was never out of circulation) The Manchurian Candidate. Those years started the habit that hasn't stopped yet.

[Milburn Stone]

20 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

Speaking of Stanwyck, and the just passed Richard Chamberlain, her last great performance was in The Thorn Birds miniseries which got her an Emmy. She was on the Dynasty spinoff The Colbys but left after one season. This letter to the University of Wyoming will tell you why...

I love everything about that letter. The wit, the verve. The signoff (“Go!"). For some reason, even the font, size, and position of the letterhead! And her signature.

[EtheltoTillie]

54 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

Mine too, with a few details altered. From 1970 through 1972 I lived near DC (playing in an army band) and for the first time had access to repertory cinemas (the Circle and all its offshoots) that changed bills every night. Finally I could encounter the old movies I'd only read about before. Those were the years when I first saw Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon, The Lost Weekend, The Thin Man, Topper, From Here To Eternity, and so many more including (despite what people still try to say, it was never out of circulation) The Manchurian Candidate. Those years started the habit that hasn't stopped yet.

Where did you grow up, Rinaldo--if you're willing to tell us.  Even without the theaters, we still saw those movies on TV in the 50s and 60s.  Did you not have access to TV? 

[Charlie Baker]

April 1st is Debbie Reynolds' birthday.  Also Jane Powell's.

[Rinaldo]

4 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Where did you grow up, Rinaldo--if you're willing to tell us.  Even without the theaters, we still saw those movies on TV in the 50s and 60s.  Did you not have access to TV? 

I'm a Chicago boy, and those movies did show up on TV -- but I wasn't always there at the right time to see them. The old ones didn't play in primetime, but late at night, or at odd times on odd channels during the weekend. And others in the family had things they wanted to watch too, and I wasn't always inclined (or when I was younger, allowed) to stay up for the late show. (And during the late 60s, my undergrad years, I indeed didn't have access to TV -- none of us did during the semester, unless we wanted to hang out in the dorm common room, and we were too busy for that.) So my viewing was spotty.

Let's see: older movies I remember catching on TV in early days would include Rebecca (I'd read the book so I was curious), The Women, The Green Man, The Happiest Days of Your Life (loved that one), All About Eve, probably more. In high school after reading the book we were shown A Midsummer Night's Dream, Of Human Bondage (not the Bette Davis one), and others. And as an undergrad the local "art" cinema and on-campus showings caught me up with early Bergman, Citizen Kane, etc. But of course most evenings were devoted to studying, or practicing my instrument, and weekend evenings we'd see the new movies. Leisure time didn't really open up till my military service started, and that's when I went nuts with the rep theaters.

[EtheltoTillie]

Ah, yes, the TV in the dorm common room!  We had that too.  We watched event TV, such as the tennis match between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs.  Very popular at my women's college. 

[chessiegal]

My newspaper has a section where they list shows for the evening starting at 6 pm. It is beside a column of "Best bets". Today one of the best bets is It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World on TCM. Here is the description of the movie. 

Quote

Ally (Gail Bean) recently left an abusive relationship. But as she starts over, she is tormented by visions of her ex (Tristan Mack Wilds). While she goes about her life, she begins receiving strange messages that her abuser may be lurking nearby. 8 p.m. on TCM

At first, I thought it was an April Fool's joke, but Google tells me that description is of an actual movie. I guess it is just a mix up, but so weird!

[mariah23]

TCM Remembers Val Kilmer who passed away at age 65.

[Tom Holmberg]

20 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

I'm a Chicago boy, and those movies did show up on TV -- but I wasn't always there at the right time to see them. The old ones didn't play in primetime, but late at night, or at odd times on odd channels during the weekend. And others in the family had things they wanted to watch too, and I wasn't always inclined (or when I was younger, allowed) to stay up for the late show. (And during the late 60s, my undergrad years, I indeed didn't have access to TV -- none of us did during the semester, unless we wanted to hang out in the dorm common room, and we were too busy for that.) So my viewing was spotty.

Let's see: older movies I remember catching on TV in early days would include Rebecca (I'd read the book so I was curious), The Women, The Green Man, The Happiest Days of Your Life (loved that one), All About Eve, probably more. In high school after reading the book we were shown A Midsummer Night's Dream, Of Human Bondage (not the Bette Davis one), and others. And as an undergrad the local "art" cinema and on-campus showings caught me up with early Bergman, Citizen Kane, etc. But of course most evenings were devoted to studying, or practicing my instrument, and weekend evenings we'd see the new movies. Leisure time didn't really open up till my military service started, and that's when I went nuts with the rep theaters.

If you're from Chicago you should have gone the the Clark Theater.  From the early 60s to the early 70s it was a repertory theater (it then was a porn theater for a short time before being torn down), saw a lot of old movies on the big screen.  https://cinematreasures.org/theaters/4497

[Tom Holmberg]

For fans of "Conclave" TCM will the showing "Shoes of the Fisherman" tonight (4/2)

[Rinaldo]

On 4/2/2025 at 10:26 AM, Tom Holmberg said:

f you're from Chicago you should have gone the the Clark Theater.  From the early 60s to the early 70s it was a repertory theater (it then was a porn theater for a short time before being torn down), saw a lot of old movies on the big screen. 

For some of those years I didn't have a driver's license. Then followed my college (and miliarty-band, as aforementioned) years. But from 1980 through 1982 I was living back in Chicagoland, and I made constant use of the rep theaters that were flourishing then, in Chicago and Evanston. That's when I first saw Singin' in the Rain, The Band Wagon, It's Always Fair Weather, Touch of Evil, and many more. It was probably my biggest catch-up period before we began getting national channels dedicated to old movies. Youngsters may not realize how hard it was to see a special classic film in those days; for instance, knowing She Loves Me, I was desperate to see The Shop Around the Corner, but only TCM gave me the opportunity to do that.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 4/2/2025 at 1:12 PM, Tom Holmberg said:

For fans of "Conclave" TCM will the showing "Shoes of the Fisherman" tonight (4/2)

I tuned in for some of it as it was an interesting pairing. Ben described at the beginning that they had to recreate the Sistine Chapel for the film but it was unclear to me whether they used the same stage set again for Conclave. It seems it might have been hanging around for decades and was rebuilt

Edited April 5 by EtheltoTillie

[Charlie Baker]

It almost got past me, but today is TCM Mega Birthday Day.

Bette Davis, Spencer Tracy, Gregory Peck, Walter Huston, Melvyn Douglas all born April 5th. 

[Tom Holmberg]

I'm glad TCM finally got to show "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid", after the last cock-up.

[Tom Holmberg]

On Friday April 11 TCM honors Skippy (aka, Asta) with a day of his films.

Kennel Murder Case, The (1933)
Half Naked Truth, The (1933)
Fog Over Frisco (1934)
Firebird, The (1934)
I'm Still Alive (1940)
Call It a Day (1937)
Bringing Up Baby (1938)
Thin Man, The (1934)
After the Thin Man (1936)
Famous Movie Dogs (1940) (short)

[Rinaldo]

2 hours ago, Tom Holmberg said:

I'm glad TCM finally got to show "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid"

Though I don't think it's as hilarious a comedy as Ben does, I'm a bit surprised that this movie isn't a regular feature of the TCM schedule. It's essentially a pop quiz for faithful viewers to identify the sources of scenes from old movies.

[Tom Holmberg]

20 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

Though I don't think it's as hilarious a comedy as Ben does, I'm a bit surprised that this movie isn't a regular feature of the TCM schedule. It's essentially a pop quiz for faithful viewers to identify the sources of scenes from old movies.

It's funny but not split a gut funny.  The enjoyable part is seeing the interaction with the classic stars. 

[Charlie Baker]

I also appreciate it from a technical point of view--it's impressive how well- blended the old and new footage was, and pre-CGI.

I first heard of the movie waiting on line for the Universal Studios Tour, where they appeased customers with a long wait with movie trailers. Among them was this:

 

[mariah23]

Happy Easter everyone!

 I watched The Silver Chalice this morning.

Never forget this image 

[Rinaldo]

Every lover of old movies should see The Silver Chalice at least once. There are plenty of film adaptations of the Bible-adjacent novels that were once so popular (Ben Hur, The Robe, all that), but none so bonkers as this one. Although the Costain book is quite a sober example of the genre, the movie goes rogue with designs that are deliberately not only ahistorical (check out that long-sleeved onesie in the photo), but unrealistic -- stage designer Rolf Gerard creates stage sets with clean right angles and shiny surfaces, scorning the dust and dirt of your typical Bible epic. It's totally its own thing, to an extent that has been known to embarrass the participants (Paul Newman went public about that), but from this distant date makes it a singular artifact.

[Fool to cry]

19 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Every lover of old movies should see The Silver Chalice at least once. There are plenty of film adaptations of the Bible-adjacent novels that were once so popular (Ben Hur, The Robe, all that), but none so bonkers as this one. Although the Costain book is quite a sober example of the genre, the movie goes rogue with designs that are deliberately not only ahistorical (check out that long-sleeved onesie in the photo), but unrealistic -- stage designer Rolf Gerard creates stage sets with clean right angles and shiny surfaces, scorning the dust and dirt of your typical Bible epic. It's totally its own thing, to an extent that has been known to embarrass the participants (Paul Newman went public about that), but from this distant date makes it a singular artifact.

Yeah it was actually a very daring experiment. That very clean aesthetic is off putting for some reason. I think we viewers want anything set in the distant past to have some grime and earthiness. Like an period movie from the 50s can have unnaturally brightly lit sets as long as they don't look too polished!

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:35 PM by Fool to cry

[Milburn Stone]

21 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

Yeah it was actually a very daring experiment. That very clean aesthetic is off putting for some reason. I think we viewers want anything set in the distant past to have some grime and earthiness.

I've never seen this movie because Paul Newman warned me off it sixty years ago. But now because of the posts, I'm interested. Maybe it's on Watch TCM. 

The posts makes me wonder, non-rhetorically, if Biblical epics are more accurate with a bit of bright shininess to them. I mean, when the events of Jesus's life happened, they weren't 2000 years old, they were brand spanking new. Granted that Jesus did not live most of his years in a hospital-grade cleanliness, do biblical movies sometimes err in making their mise-en-scène too grimy and earthy?

[Fool to cry]

31 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I've never seen this movie because Paul Newman warned me off it sixty years ago. But now because of the posts, I'm interested. Maybe it's on Watch TCM. 

The posts makes me wonder, non-rhetorically, if Biblical epics are more accurate with a bit of bright shininess to them. I mean, when the events of Jesus's life happened, they weren't 2000 years old, they were brand spanking new. Granted that Jesus did not live most of his years in a hospital-grade cleanliness, do biblical movies sometimes err in making their mise-en-scène too grimy and earthy?

I get what you're saying but there's a difference between what other Hollywood epics like The Robe which is make a plausible depiction of what the times looked like:

And what The Silver Chalice was doing which was be deliberately expressionist:

[Milburn Stone]

Useful visual comparison, @Fool to cry. Clearly the movie was not made by blundering idiots (as I had imagined) but by brave folks who wanted to see if a different artistic choice could work in a mainstream attraction.

[Fool to cry]

4 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Useful visual comparison, @Fool to cry. Clearly the movie was not made by blundering idiots (as I had imagined) but by brave folks who wanted to see if a different artistic choice could work in a mainstream attraction.

Yeah, it's not just that everything looks clean it's that it's so simplified and lacking detail. 

[Rinaldo]

That's what I was getting at, perhaps too obliquely, with calling them "stage sets." Rolf Gérard worked primarily in theater, ballet, and opera, with barely half a dozen movies to his credit (Gene Kelly's Invitation to the Dance is probably the best known of the others, and of course that frankly evokes the stage). So they clearly wanted what he had to offer for The Silver Chalice: a level of nonreality that's totally its own thing. One may decide that it doesn't work, but it's what they meant.

[Tom Holmberg]

They always show Roman statues smooth "white" marble, but in reality they were often painted with bright colors, decorated with jewelry, actual clothes and even perfumed.

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

That's what I was getting at, perhaps too obliquely, with calling them "stage sets." Rolf Gérard worked primarily in theater, ballet, and opera, with barely half a dozen movies to his credit (Gene Kelly's Invitation to the Dance is probably the best known of the others, and of course that frankly evokes the stage). So they clearly wanted what he had to offer for The Silver Chalice: a level of nonreality that's totally its own thing. One may decide that it doesn't work, but it's what they meant.

I wonder if what they were trying to get at was a deeper level of meaning in the Christianity story than mere verisimilitude could allow. A more emotional experience, a more ineffable one, for the audience. "Realism" leaves you thinking "so these were just guys, who like, believed stuff." Stylization forces you to connect with what this stuff is about.

Except, maybe it didn't work.

Am I on the right track in my theorizing as to the filmmakers' reason for the stylization?

[Rinaldo]

17 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I wonder if what they were trying to get at was a deeper level of meaning in the Christianity story than mere verisimilitude could allow. A more emotional experience, a more ineffable one, for the audience. "Realism" leaves you thinking "so these were just guys, who like, believed stuff." Stylization forces you to connect with what this stuff is about.

Except, maybe it didn't work.

Am I on the right track in my theorizing as to the filmmakers' reason for the stylization?

I don't know... I think you may be a deeper thinker than the film warrants (I mean that as a compliment!), and may be giving its makers too much credit. As I remember it, it really isn't aiming at a spiritual experience, despite the chalice connection. (The book was partially inspired by the discovery of an elaborately decorated silver cup from the period, which someone speculated might have been made as a container for the cup from the Last Supper.) A great deal of the story has to do with adoption, inheritance, magicians, concubines, silversmithery, and suchlike, as it jumps from one time or place to another. I've not found a specific explanation of the design choices (I would love to discover that there is one somewhere), but my feeling is that it was somewhat arbitrary and maybe market-inspired, as in "everybody's making these sorts of epics now, and we can't compete in the on-location-spectacle department, so let's make ours look deliberately different." It would probably be best to see it for yourself!

I do like Newman's quip after turning down the chance to star in Ben-Hur: "I'm not making another movie where my costume is a cocktail dress."

Edited Thursday at 02:14 PM by Rinaldo

[mariah23]

Newman was right; he really didn’t have the legs to wear Roman clothes.

[Milburn Stone]

Currently devouring a book titled Hollywood and the Movies of the Fifties: The Collapse of the Studio System, The Thrill of Cinerama, and the Invasion of the Ultimate Body Snatcher, Television, by film historian Foster Hirsch. I wish it didn't have that gimmicky subtitle, because while it's not inaccurate, it doesn't do the book justice.

Hirsch's thesis is that, contrary to received wisdom that the fifties were a decade of stultifying conformity, tremendous social ferment happened which created a culture that gave us some of the best movies Hollywood ever made. Each chapter deals with a different studio, the fortunes that befell it in that decade, and the movies (the bad and the beautiful) that came out of it.

When I say thesis, I would describe Hirsch's content as serious, thoroughly informed by research and a consistent aesthetic, but his writing is eminently readable. I literally cannot imagine any TCM viewer failing to enjoy the book. I mean literally--I am unable to force my mind to envision that.

(I skipped ahead to see if he mentions The Silver Chalice. It looks like it comes up a few times but I glanced at this quote, in the Warner Bros. chapter: "Triumphs of art direction, The Silver Chalice (1954), Land of the Pharaohs (1955), and Helen of Troy (1956) are all sumptuous ancient-world pageants that merit reconsideration." Make of that what you will. 😊)

Edited Thursday at 10:29 PM by Milburn Stone

[Fool to cry]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

Currently devouring a book titled Hollywood and the Movies of the Fifties: The Collapse of the Studio System, The Thrill of Cinerama, and the Invasion of the Ultimate Body Snatcher, Television, by film historian Foster Hirsch. I wish it didn't have that gimmicky subtitle, because while it's not inaccurate, it doesn't do the book justice.

Hirsch's thesis is that, contrary to received wisdom that the fifties were a decade of stultifying conformity, tremendous social ferment happened which created a culture that gave us some of the best movies Hollywood ever made. Each chapter deals with a different studio, the fortunes that befell it in that decade, and the movies (the bad and the beautiful) that came out of it.

I beleve that. You had great movies like Ace in the Hole, A Face in the Crowd, 12 Angry Men, etc.

A book I really love is Hollywood: The Oral History by Jeanine Basinger and Sam Wasson. Taken from the interviews in AFI archives. A lot of the interviews were done in the 1970s and have first hand accounts about the very early days of Hollywood. 

Edited Thursday at 04:37 PM by Fool to cry

[Tom Holmberg]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Currently devouring a book titled Hollywood and the Movies of the Fifties: The Collapse of the Studio System, The Thrill of Cinerama, and the Invasion of the Ultimate Body Snatcher, Television, by film historian Foster Hirsch.

Very good book.  Read it when it first came out.

[Rinaldo]

On 4/24/2025 at 11:45 AM, Fool to cry said:

A book I really love is Hollywood: The Oral History by Jeanine Basinger and Sam Wasson. Taken from the interviews in AFI archives. A lot of the interviews were done in the 1970s and have first hand accounts about the very early days of Hollywood. 

I can heartily endorse this recommendation. It's full of good archival statements from people both famous and not, from the multitude of professions that contribute to moviemaking.

Jeanine Basinger's name on the book is a virtual guarantee of quality. She is, to my mind, one of the best writers on film, bringing good information, passion, and humor to the subject. She teaches at Wesleyan U and has built its film-studies curriculum and archive into something formidable. She has done DVD commentaries and written books about individual movie people, but I think her most distinctive writing is about more general topics:

• The World War II Combat Film: Anatomy of a Genre
• A Woman's View: How Hollywood Spoke to Women 1930-1960
• The Star Machine
• I Do and I Don't: A History of Marriage in the Movies
• The Movie Musical

She's always refreshingly open-minded and non-doctrinaire (pointing out, for instance, that movie audiences in the past weren't as dumb as is often assumed, and knew how to dismiss the last-minute punishments in order to enjoy the 90 minutes of yummy luxury and wickedness that came before). On the subject of contract players making the move to star unexpectedly, Porky Pig is one of her examples. And her proposal for the best marriage in movies is Tarzan and Jane. I love the way she writes.

Edited Friday at 10:33 PM by Rinaldo