All Episodes Talk: S00 Gods Of The Arena

[Meushell]

A younger Batiatus finds himself newly in control of his father’s gladiator school. He uses his most skilled fighter to win favor with a cunning nobleman behind the building of the new arena.

 

 

 

This was the prequel season. It was made after season 1. However, since the next season is the official Season 2, this one is often dubbed season 0.

Edited September 12, 2014 by maraleia
added quotes

[Meushell]

Batiatus conjures up a devious plan and enlists Lucretia, Gaia and a clutch of gladiator recruits to see it through. Oenomaus longs to reclaim the top gladiator rank, but new challenges cross his path.

 

 

Please put the descriptions in quotes. Thanks for keeping this thing going.

Edited September 12, 2014 by maraleia
added quotes

[green]

Gan-ni-cus!  Gan-ni-cus!  Gan-ni-cus!

 

Great intro of this character.  Gladiators were the rock stars of their day -- well until they got killed anyway -- and we finally have one that lives the life at full bore.  And such a welcome relief from the far more serious and dour trio of Spartacus, Crixus and Oenomaus.  Yeah they are great but I love that Gannicus is a rocker and is having a blast.  Props to the actor playing the role to sell it too.  (Though nothing is really known about him as to his past, still Gannicus was a real historical person just like the other three and just like them the writers' created an interesting back story for him).

 

And our favorite conniving couple are back at it.  And with Solonius as Batiatus' bestest friend ever.  When I saw this on the download a month ago I was like what?  Kind of cool to see them together as friends.

 

Enter Crixus and Ashur.  I like the long hair look for Crixus.  Gives his moody personality the look to go with it.  And, just like Batiatus and Solonius, these two start out friendly.  Wonder how long that will last.

 

We get to meet pre-Doctore Oenomaus' wife, Melitta  (I got a cast list on another screen so I can finally get these names right barring typos).  And Naevia before Crixus knows she exists.  And Barca is happily alive again.  Old home week.

 

Gaia is the new Illithiya it seems.  Or is Illitiya the new Gaia.  Prequels in the middle of a series are a bit confusing.  Anyway, she is Lucretia's confident.

 

And there is a clever edit where Lucretia is telling Gaia that she would never ever consider messing around with a gladiator.  Immediate quick cut to Crixus being thrown into his cell upon arrival at the ludus.  Perfect.

 

What a dump the old Capua "arena" was.  Civic pride dictates a new stadium pronto.

 

I thought this first episode of Gods of the Arena was one of the better one's of the whole series.  It just flowed so well and the characters really popped off the screen.  Especially Batiatus and Gan-ni-cus!

Edited September 12, 2014 by green

[green]

"I love it when a plan comes together."  That is what I imagine Batiatus saying anyway after his bratty overgrown kid rival goes down for the count.

 

But poor redshirt newbie wannabe gladiator guy.  First he gets sentenced to the mines all because Batiatus is having a bad hair day.  Or kicked-in face day anyway.  Then as he dies the last thing he hears is Ashur explaining that Batiatus had ordered it and the mines would have been nicer after all.  Actor playing Ashur was good in that scene showing that he isn't a sadist and didn't enjoy the killing at all keeping the character from the two dimensional cardboard realm as a result.

 

Far more serious stuff with the forced sex between Gannicus and Melitta.  Brings home how horrible slavery is almost more than any other thing we have seen so far.  And inter-cutting that scene with Oenomaus and old school Doctore's fight was right on the button.  Another hour that just flew by which is the mark of a good episode.

 

You know when I first heard about this prequel I kind of assumed it would be at a level less than the Spartacus legend stuff.  But it isn't.  The actors are all just so darn good and hold your focus and you just get into the story right away.   Too bad this is only a semi-season with what, eight episodes was it.  I could have used more episodes.

Edited September 12, 2014 by green

[Ohwell]

I'm pretty new to this show, so I'm still having trouble with some of the names, and remembering who's who.  So thanks, green, for putting names to the characters.

 

I do like Gannicus the rock star gladiator though.  I'm not looking forward to his demise.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Ohwell

[Ohwell]

It sickened and saddened me to see how the slaves were made to sexually "perform" in front of those vile perverts.  It's bad enough that the gladiators have to fight in front of them.  I thought I noticed certain glances between Melitta and Gannicus prior to their forced performance; however, even if they might have had feelings for one another, I don't think they would have had an affair and hurt Oenomaus.

[green]

I found the names in an unexpected way.  I thought to find a site for the TV series but when I entered Spartacus TV on Goggle and one of the options was Spartacus TV Series Cast I just clicked on it and low and behold right on the Google search page itself across the top were all the actors and their character's names.  No chance of any spoiling like from a site if you are interested. 

 

Except they had Oenomaus listed by his title of Doctore instead so I had to look him up and his name is the hardest to remember how to spell, grrrr.  Or even pronounce.  But I guess a Latin Oe = "a" as in "apple" sound as in An-o-may-us.  With second "a" being a long "a" instead.  That right?

 

Well at least from now on in this season he is Doctore.  But when we go back to the Spartacus revolt timeline next season, well he recently lost that job at the end of last season so it will be back to Oenomaus and I'll need another refresher course so I'm gonna try to keep calling him Oenomaus from now on so I don't have to go through a whole re-education process again..

Edited September 12, 2014 by green

[green]

Yeah I saw that too.  An awkward situation grew even worse.  Far far worse.

 

Meanwhile Crixus gets a thumbs up cause another Roman lady finds him hot.  Not because he went toe to toe with the champion of the ludus for a brief moment there.

 

Meanwhile Ashur gets a tramp stamp version of the brand of the brotherhood.  Not his fault he and his buddy got it that way but he is already starting to slip into the role of a slinky, can do guy for Batiatus.

Edited September 12, 2014 by green

[ElleryAnne]

I thought this first episode of Gods of the Arena was one of the better one's of the whole series.  It just flowed so well and the characters really popped off the screen.

 

 

Agreed. I've only seen the Blood and Sand episodes and now this, but I thought this episode flowed well and the characters seemed better-developed.

 

Darn John Hannah for making Batiatus such a fun character to watch.  I keep reminding myself I should hate him for stuff he did in Blood and Sand (well, I guess that'll be for stuff he's going to do in his future), but JH is a great actor and makes me really enjoy the character.

 

I love the idea that Batiatus is trying to make a name for himself and the family ludus apart from his father.  It's one of those things that's both natural and classic.

[ElleryAnne]

That forced sex between Gannicus and Melitta was disturbing and sad and creepy.  And Batiatus talking afterward, like it was a great thing that his slaves are able to put aside their feelings for the greater good of the ludus.  I don't even.  

 

I didn't record this so can't check but the bruised eye that Batiatus got from the beating - did it shift once or twice during the episode?  I could've sworn it alternated between being the right and left eye during the scene when he first arrived home and Lucretia and Gaia were entertaining Varis.

 

That bratty punk Vettius was so annoying.  Not that I'm glad for what happened to him, but well, I guess I didn't mind it as much as I would have otherwise.

 

Ashur is... well, Ashur.  He's such a villain.  Sometimes I get a Iago vibe from him, and sometimes more of a Fagin vibe.  He's not really like either of them other than in the general sense that he's a sneaky, conniving kind of villain, so I can't explain it.  But it's there, and I get a kick out of the character.

 

I love the social-climbing efforts, even if these people are all reprehensible.  

[Meushell]

Just as his fortunes are on the rise, his future clear before him, Batiatus is stunned by the return of his father which puts his attempts to gain rank by exploiting those above his class at risk.

[Meushell]

The House of Batiatus is caught in the power struggle between the younger and elder Batiatus. Lucretia reluctantly agrees to her husband’s risky plan. Gannicus finds himself on unstable ground.

[Meushell]

The return of Solonius, Barca, and many others.

We finally get to meet Oenomaus's wife. Sad to know that years later, he still loves her. We just don't know what happened to her.

Nice early introduction of Crixus. No wonder being a gladiator mean so much to him later.

This is, if I recall correctly, supposed to be about five years before Blood and Sand.

[ElleryAnne]

This is, if I recall correctly, supposed to be about five years before Blood and Sand.

 

 

Good to know.  I was wondering about that.  I half-expected the season finale to introduce Spartacus.

[ElleryAnne]

The dynamic between Batiatus and his father is almost like that of a teenager with his dad.  Up to and including getting caught in an embarrassing situation - although a threesome is probably beyond what most teens get caught at.  ;)  

 

I feel so bad for Oenomaus.  Nearly all of the people he shares relationships with (wife, friend, brotherhood) are in situations where they're being distanced from him - with Melitta and Gannicus, because of the forced sex, and with the gladiators because he's taken on the position of Doctore and they'll all see him differently now.  And yes, I realize he chose that last one, but the timing is awful.  

 

So many of these people - Ashur, Tullius, Vettius, and especially Varis - have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.  I have to keep reminding myself that Batiatus has done some loathsome things too.  

 

I like Gaia.  She's like Illythia, but without the malice.  For a woman who loves someone like Batiatus, Lucretia has good taste in girlfriends. 

[ElleryAnne]

..... Aaaaand of course that happened.

 

I realized about two minutes before it happened that Gaia was in trouble.  I hate Tullius.  I really hope he and Varis don't get out of this season unscathed.

 

I'm not crazy about the direction the Melitta-Gannicus-Oenomaus stuff is going.  Yes, I saw the little look between Melitta and Gannicus before the incident with Varis, but I don't want a rape to be turned into a quasi-romantic thing.  

 

Lucretia impresses me.  She always seems to get into circumstances that end up way beyond her control, yet she manages to deal with it.  Even when she's heartbroken.  

[green]

The paterfamilias under Roman law, not just tradition alone, was the absolute ruler of the extended family.  Period.  So hey, Batiatus.  Who'd your daddy now?

 

 

ElleryAnne, great point about Batiatus looking like a teenager before his father (Titus I think his name is maybe).  Batiatus is so grounded.  Except we all know he just can't stay grounded for long.

[green]

I wouldn't call it rape since that implies Gannicus had a choice in the manner which he didn't.  Both were victims.  And both seemingly had some feelings for each other before this but have tried their best to do right by Oenomaus.  It was hard before and now the kinky Varis (guess you could call him the "remote rapist") makes things much much worse for them all.

 

This whole episode was hard to watch.  At least SyFy cut out about 9/10 of the disgusting stuff that happened to the poor young girl friend of Naevdia  (sp?, too tired to look it up right now).  That was heart-breaking.

 

I didn't foresee Tullius going crazed killer because his former flame from this youth was trying to help House Batiatus out.  Gaia wasn't the mostly saintly person ever but she certainly was a big step above Ilythia and certainly didn't deserve that fate.  And, Tullius, you just don't have to deal with Baitiatus.  Lucretia is now very very deeply all in on Batiiatus' desire to see you brought low too.

[Ohwell]

I wouldn't call it rape either, at least not by Gannicus.  The rape was perpetrated by the perverts.  If Gannicus or Melitta had balked, they both probably would have been killed.  They had no choice. 

[ElleryAnne]

Believe me, I absolutely consider it a rape of both Melitta and Gannicus.  I don't like the idea of the show taking it in the direction of it leading to romantic feelings on either part.

[Meushell]

Batiatus’ father announces a tournament to determine the worth of the men that make up his stable of gladiators. Crixus, dedicated to proving himself, is drawn into the power play within the house.

[Meushell]

Batiatus seeks vengeance for all that has befallen him and retains his gladiators and Solonius in the cause. The opening of the new arena arrives, promising a spectacle of combat and blood.

[ElleryAnne]

I'm sure they meant to fake me out, and they did.  I totally thought Batiatus was going to kill his father.  Love the twist that Lucretia had been poisoning him in the past and now was doing it again.

 

One thing about Batiatus, for all his faults he really does love Lucretia. And she loves him right back.  But I think it's probably for the best that these two didn't have children.  

 

Yikes, Lucretia and Crixus.   "I hear your people are very fertile.  Do me, even though you disgust me."   That was really disturbing.  

 

I was disappointed in the turn Melitta and Gannicus' story took.  I know they had feelings for each other before, but I still hate seeing that story play out as some kind of tragic romance.  

 

I did like Melitta's relationship with Lucretia, though.  If not for the class difference, they might have been friends.  So of course it ends up with Melitta dead as an indirect result of Lucretia's act.  Lucretia doesn't have luck holding onto confidantes of the female persuasion.

 

Ashur doesn't have even a passing acquaintance with honor.  And btw - what's the deal with the mines?  Would gladiators be left there to die, or was it just a temporary punishment with no food?

[ElleryAnne]

Very good finale for the season.

 

Good on Solonius for realizing Batiatus is not a good friend.  I don't normally hold with double-crosses, but Batiatus deserved that.  

 

I don't feel bad for Tullius dying for a couple of deaths he wasn't responsible for.  He still had Gaia's blood on his hands.

 

At the opening games, Batiatus pretending to believe Vettius' story about Tullius going to Antioch was priceless.

 

I felt bad for Oenomaus.  He's pretty much the most honorable guy in Capua, and the two people he loved the most betrayed him.  And probably the only reason he doesn't know it, is that he wouldn't do either of them the disservice of being suspicious of them.  And then he's so happy for Gannicus becoming a free man.  He's a better man than you are, Gannicus.

[green]

^  Being sent to the mines meant to work in the mines the rest of your life as a slave hauling rock and dirt in the dark and the dust.  Backbreaking work in a hellish place with no chance of ever earning your freedom.

 

Yeah I liked that Batiatus and Lucretia were given that one touching moment where they were real human beings who loved one another and he was willing to give up everything he struggled and connived for for his wife.  Always great when villains aren't two dimensional.   Batiatus telling his father no took some courage from the little bugger.  His finest moment of the show.

 

And it was a thing that kept the audience off balance as did the fact that he didn't play whack-a-head with the timber he picked up.  And Lucretia's hots for Crixus didn't exactly start out as lust at first sight which was another minor surprise.

 

I have no problem with the Gannaicus/Melitta storyline other than obviously the tragic nature of it.  It just shows how hard things were if you were slaves on top of the other complications of life.  And it always struck me that both of them kept trying to fight against their desires for Doctore's sake.  Very human situation in a very inhuman time.

 

Oh Ashur did you know your best buddy Dagon is sort of pissed at you after you offered him up as fresh meat to the kinky Roman?  Won't let you win fair and square at the ludus in house challenge.  Well. just win fair and unsquare.  I'm sure Dagon doesn't mind losing his eye to help you out ... not.

 

Farewell, Titus.  You overstayed your welcome in House Batiatus: The Next Generation.

[green]

Gan-ni-cus!  Gan-ni-cus!  Gan-ni-cus!  Love the dude.  My favorite character of the series.  Loved how he both saved Crixus' life from the last Team Solonius gladiator and pushed him outside the ring of fire to save Crixus from him in the end.  Double live-saver for Crixus cause no way was Gannicus gonna lose that day of days.

 

And he wanted so bad to confess to Oenomaus several times including the very end especially but realized by lifting a burden from himself he would give a greater burden to his best friend.  Also the self-sacrifice he made losing to Crixus earlier in the last episode so he could be sent far away for Doctore's sake.  Dude is totally on a guilt trip now yet he showed himself a truly honorable man.  In the end it was Melitta who made the ultimate move on him.  And she had tried hard to resist too.  All three people were decent folk caught up in an impossible situation.

 

On to fun stuff.  Enjoyed seeing Tullius getting his comeuppance with more stab wounds at the end then Julius Caesar would ever get a few decades down the road.  And especially how he became part of his precious arena.  Edgar Allen Poe would be proud of Batiatus.

 

Batiatus' rah-rah speech to his gladiators before the final event complete with rising music in the background was both awesome and hilarious at once.  "Win one for the Gipper ... err ... House Batiatus!"

 

Loved all the Batiatus and Lucretia stuff in the VIP box in the arena scenes.  John Hannah and Lucy Lawless worked so well together through these two seasons and this was the icing on the cake. 

 

Enjoyed that they kept Solonius as an ally while taking out Tullius but Mr B pushed Mr S just a tad too far finally thus explaining how the two BFF had become enemies in Season 1.

 

I still prefer Crixus with the long hair and beard.  It just suits his personality better than some weird close-to-modern-day look.  And speaking of him we finally see why he cut Ashur's leg up pretty good in the arena.  Though it was pretty funny when Ashur decided to backstab Dagon literally.  (Well not funny for Dagon).  And Solonius is laughing about Baitiatus' men killing each other followed by Crixus crippling Ashur and Batiatus' reation shots to all that.

 

Not only did the Ashur as half-crippled creature get resolved but the sad prequeal shoutout foreshadowing when in the last scene Barca says someday he will gain his freedom too and Gannicus says he is sure of it.

 

Next week back to the main storyline and the new actor, Liam, taking on the daunting task of replacing Andy. 

 

Also yes the point of the series was to re-tell the story of Spartacus and the slave revolt.  But honestly the series cannot be but a bit of a letdown without John Hannah's Batiatus in the middle of things.  He was totally awesome on this show.

[Badger]

I thought Batiatus was the best character on the show.  When I first started watching it, I kept thinking I'd seen him before.  Then I realized he was the guy from the Mummy movies.

[Ohwell]

So next week picks up where the slave revolt left off with Andy Whitfleid?  And Batiatus and all the other Roman hot shots are dead, so now we've got the new Spartacus and the rest of the slaves going on new adventures.  I've got to keep this straight in my head.

 

I feared that Gannicus wouldn't make it out alive so I was delighted when he got his freedom.  I always had the feeling that Oenomaus knew all along that Gannicus loved Melitta as more than a sister, but Oenomaus loved him for not acting on those desires and valuing their friendship.  I'm just glad he never found out what happened.

[green]

^  Yep.  That's where next week starts. 

 

Reminder re-cap thingie of last Blood and Sand episode in case this helps some getting ready this season.  I'll maybe move it from this thread and put in into the first episode of Vengeance (this season's sub-title) when that opens.  So where we left them:

 

1. Spartacus, Crixus, Agron and Oenomaus are all safely alive and well after the ludus revolt.  But Agron's kid brother, Duro, was killed in the fight early on. 

 

2. Not so safe and alive is Batiatus who was shown dead, killed by Spartacus.  And Lucretia is severely wounded (she was barely moving her fingers across her husband's dead hand when last we saw her) and lying in a pool of blood. 

 

3.  Ilithyia has made her happy departure from the ludus escaping the massacre by seconds and helping the massacre along as well as she locks the door behind her trapping the others inside.  This was done cause she was rather pissed off that Lucretia and Batiatus were blackmailing her over killing the rich and powerful senator Crassus' niece.  Her husband, Glaber, was away from Capua at the time and so is very much alive as well.

 

4. Earlier in the episode, Crixus' love, Naevia was first given to Ashur then taken away to be re-sold or something which was what finally got Crixus off his endless "I wanna be champion again " mantra and onto the "Hey I'm pissed at what they did to Naevia" one pushing him over to Spartacus' pov regards the revolt itself.  Naevia's fate is unknown.

 

5. Oenomaus was personally conflicted but in the end too loyal to his gladiator brothers to try and stop the revolt especially when he finally found a clue or two that the house wasn't as "honorable" as he thought it was.  (Barca's real fate at the hands of Batiatus and Ashur's crap). 

 

6.  Speaking of which, Ashur is still alive and skulking around in hiding after he escaped the Doctore's wrath by trickery then hiding under a dead body.

 

But despite the prequel in the middle of all this it is still better to see it before this season as the producers intended then when I downloaded all these episodes this summer and watched Gods of the Arena last cause I got the mistaken impression it was just going to be about how the gladiators got to the ludus years before and not set in the ludus or having any real tie in with moving forward with the revolt or even having  Batiatus and all in it.  I was totally wrong. 

 

So I saw Vengeance right after Blood and Sand.  It will be so much better for first time viewers to see it this way instead.  The way it was meant to be viewed.  Looking forward to seeing it in it's proper sequence now so I get the full effect better.

Edited September 27, 2014 by green

[Ohwell]

Thanks for the re-cap!

[Meushell]

They put so much in one episode. It's surprising to see how quickly things move.

 

Dagon eating the tainted food is amusing.

 

Ah, poor Indus. Screwed over by the whim of Batiatus, then he thinks he'll be given another chance, except...not really. Not a violent death too.

 

This episode actually made me feel sorry for Ashur. First, his having to kill Indus. Then his victory of receiving the mark was tainted.

 

Poor Melitta and Gannicus. Interesting to see Lucreita wanted to stop it, but was basically overruled by her husband. She certainly didn't show any of that care for her slaves in Blood and Sand.

 

I like Ulpius, the old Doctore. Poor guy was screwed over, but he managed to go out in the way he wanted. That was probably better than what Batiatus intended for him.

[Meushell]

Titus catching his son in a threesome is a bit father/teenage son-ish. That he just walked without even announcing himself does show the lack of respect he has for his son. I know I'm judging him by these days rather than those days, but I still thinks the guy needs to learn to knock or something. Then Titus goes and undoes everything that the others sacrificed for.

 

I like Gaia took. They did a good job of her taking Illythia's place, but also being her own character.

 

Poor Diona. So innocent and happy before this episode. Gaia telling her, earlier, not to fear enjoying life, is just sad to watch when you know what happens. One things about the scene of her rape though, was it seemed to get the attention of many viewers. Back when this show was new, this seemed to be the first rape scene (or pre-rape scene) that many people took seriously.

 

Aw, Auctus. Well, given that this is a prequel, we knew he was doomed. It was just a matter of when and how. He fought well though. He was unfortunate enough to be fighting against a history figure. Lol. It's neat to see how Crixus got the position he did. He's a quick learner, more-so than Spartacus was/will be.

[Meushell]

The act of rape being forced by an order rather than someone involved doesn't stop it from being rape. Melitta and Gannicus were both victims.

 

I'm not crazy about the direction the Melitta-Gannicus-Oenomaus stuff is going.  Yes, I saw the little look between Melitta and Gannicus before the incident with Varis, but I don't want a rape to be turned into a quasi-romantic thing.  

 

Yes, I really don't like this. It gives off a creepy "rape is love" vibe. I just try to see it as them trying to recover from what they were forced to do. Gannicus does start coming off as a bit creepy in this episode though.

 

Damn Tullius. His "fight" with Gannicus was annoying. I wish there had been a guest or two, quietly rolling their eyes as he brags about beating a guy who fight won't back. Then he has to go and kill Gaia.

 

Poor Dagan. Ashur is usually smart, but this was all about jealousy. Ashur, you idiot, no wonder everyone is season 1 hated you. Look how you treat your friends.

 

Aw, Gaia. The more I watch, the more I enjoy the relationship between her and Lucretia. There was always a bit of a wonder on what she would do, and as someone else elsewhere put it (I think it was on TWOP), it was a nice twist that it turns out, she really was loyal to Lucretia.

 

Titus. Titus. Go watch "Blood and Sand." Your son and daughter-in-law are not people to mess with.

[Meushell]

Diona, run, far far away.

 

I'm sure they meant to fake me out, and they did.  I totally thought Batiatus was going to kill his father.  Love the twist that Lucretia had been poisoning him in the past and now was doing it again.

 

One thing about Batiatus, for all his faults he really does love Lucretia. And she loves him right back.  But I think it's probably for the best that these two didn't have children.  

 

Yikes, Lucretia and Crixus.   "I hear your people are very fertile.  Do me, even though you disgust me."   That was really disturbing.  

 

I was disappointed in the turn Melitta and Gannicus' story took.  I know they had feelings for each other before, but I still hate seeing that story play out as some kind of tragic romance.  

 

I did like Melitta's relationship with Lucretia, though.  If not for the class difference, they might have been friends.  So of course it ends up with Melitta dead as an indirect result of Lucretia's act.  Lucretia doesn't have luck holding onto confidantes of the female persuasion.

 

Ashur doesn't have even a passing acquaintance with honor.  And btw - what's the deal with the mines?  Would gladiators be left there to die, or was it just a temporary punishment with no food?

 

I pretty much like your entire post. You pretty much said everything I'd say. Lol. I see Green already answered the mine question. :)

 

Anyway...

 

Titus. Yeah, I thought he'd be killed by his son. I thought she had been poisoning the wine, especially back when she say no to her husband having any. I hadn't realized she was the reason he was driven away in the first place though, and I thought she was trying to kill him the entire time. "No... I'm far worse" is a great moment. I love his reaction too. A bit happy. Relaxing. Thinking, maybe she's not so bad...then, he registers what she said.

 

I don't like how the Melitta/Gannicus plot either. Part of it, I admit, is because of Oenomaus. Years later, he still loves her. He still mourns her, and there's no indication that he's even ready to move on. He also stopped drinking wine. Now, we find out that her last act was to go off and have sex with his best friend. That just tainted the relationship. Then, as I mentioned before, there is that creepy "rape is love" idea.

 

I like really like the whole scene after Titus' death. Lucretia walks away. Kind of... "Well, that was a little more violent than I expected. Ah, well, he's dead now." Then she sees Gannicus, Naevia, and the soldier's approaching with Melitta's body. The music and acting is very well done.

 

Interesting that even Batiatus seemed a bit upset with Melitta's death. Before, I thought it was the case of seeing her and realizing something happened to his father. This time though, I realize he comes in, reacts to her death, then looks to his father's room and reacts again, this time to his father's death.

 

 

Yeah I liked that Batiatus and Lucretia were given that one touching moment where they were real human beings who loved one another and he was willing to give up everything he struggled and connived for for his wife.  Always great when villains aren't two dimensional.   Batiatus telling his father no took some courage from the little bugger.  His finest moment of the show.

 

Batiatus and Lucretia do make a great couple. The relationship with Titus does make me wonder how Batiatus might have been if father was a better father. The guy gave up what he wanted to do what his father wanted, and he spent years being told he wasn't even good enough at that. Rather telling that a simple "I love you" prevented his scull from being bashed in.

 

Of course, while Titus does treat his slaves better than Batiatus and Lucretia in the end, that's only towards slaves he feels are deserving of it.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Meushell

[Meushell]

Very good finale for the season.

 

Good on Solonius for realizing Batiatus is not a good friend.  I don't normally hold with double-crosses, but Batiatus deserved that.  

 

I don't feel bad for Tullius dying for a couple of deaths he wasn't responsible for.  He still had Gaia's blood on his hands.

 

At the opening games, Batiatus pretending to believe Vettius' story about Tullius going to Antioch was priceless.

 

I felt bad for Oenomaus.  He's pretty much the most honorable guy in Capua, and the two people he loved the most betrayed him.  And probably the only reason he doesn't know it, is that he wouldn't do either of them the disservice of being suspicious of them.  And then he's so happy for Gannicus becoming a free man.  He's a better man than you are, Gannicus.

 

As far as season finales go, "Kill Them All" was a hard act to follow. They did a good job.

 

Aw, Solonius. The prequel does make me feel bad about his death in Blood and Sand. Just imagine how powerful he and Batiatus could have been if they had continued working together.

 

Kind of funny that Tullius basically realizes he is being killed for something he didn't do. Then as he tries to point how how little sense that would make, he gets Titus' ashes stuffed in his mouth. Yuck! The scene of Oenomaus and Gannicus stabbing him was intense. You do not want two gladiators pissed at you. The creepy part is...either one could kill him with one stab wound, no problem. They are probably missing vital areas on purpose, to make for a lingering death.

 

Poor Oenomaus. I recall reading that there was a originally going to be a scene where Titus, before dying, asks Batiatus to free Oenomaus. Batiatus, of course, does not. If they had kept that in, it would mean that between that and Blood and Sand, Oenomaus lost out of freedom twice.

 

Looking at Gannicus' freedom, it's interesting to look at, though I may be reading too much into it. When Oenomaus knows that Crixus wants freedom, he assures Naevia he will help him get it. Then she tells him the truth about Barca. Looking at this episode again, I realize that Oenomaus may have thought that Batiatus completely agreed with freeing Gannicus. He might have even thought it was his idea. Naevia, however, saw that Batiatus  was basically backed into a corner with the idea, and was clearly not happy with going along with it. Between this and Barca, it's no wonder she feared for Crixus trying to seek freedom.

 

I still prefer Crixus with the long hair and beard.  It just suits his personality better than some weird close-to-modern-day look.  And speaking of him we finally see why he cut Ashur's leg up pretty good in the arena.  Though it was pretty funny when Ashur decided to backstab Dagon literally.  (Well not funny for Dagon).  And Solonius is laughing about Baitiatus' men killing each other followed by Crixus crippling Ashur and Batiatus' reation shots to all that.

 

Not only did the Ashur as half-crippled creature get resolved but the sad prequeal shoutout foreshadowing when in the last scene Barca says someday he will gain his freedom too and Gannicus says he is sure of it.

 

Having seen both, I like him with the longer hair as well.

 

Nice to see exactly how Ashur gets his injuries and his burns. Poor Dagan though. He just...wasn't very bright. He basically fell for Ashur's "dirty fighting" twice.

 

Poor Barca never got that freedom.

 

I wish we could have seen Pietros this season. I believe they wanted to include him, with Barca showing interest, but the actor was busy.

 

I thought Batiatus was the best character on the show.  When I first started watching it, I kept thinking I'd seen him before.  Then I realized he was the guy from the Mummy movies.

 

Yeah, I'll never be able to see his Mummy character the same away again.

[Badger]

I thought the scene where Barca congratulated Crixus on making it to the brotherhood was one of the saddest in the entire run of the series.

[ElleryAnne]

I wish we could have seen Pietros this season. I believe they wanted to include him, with Barca showing interest, but the actor was busy.

 

 

I wondered about that.  I'd have liked to see him in this season, too.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

The thing is, Titus seems like he was a great father with the benefit of all the information. He clearly loved Quintus, even if he wasn't the best at showing it.

 

He thought Lucretia was beneath Quintus, and she in fact was not just because she was from a lesser family, but also because she was instrumental in debauching the house, in giving Quintus the wrong advice, in cheating on him with a slave and of course, in poisoning and then ultimately murdering Titus.

 

And if Quintus was not so headstrong about striving for politics, he would still be alive and a rich, rich man. 

[ElleryAnne]

And if Quintus was not so headstrong about striving for politics, he would still be alive and a rich, rich man.

 

 

But very, very old! ;P

[Meushell]

The thing is, Titus seems like he was a great father with the benefit of all the information. He clearly loved Quintus, even if he wasn't the best at showing it.

 

He thought Lucretia was beneath Quintus, and she in fact was not just because she was from a lesser family, but also because she was instrumental in debauching the house, in giving Quintus the wrong advice, in cheating on him with a slave and of course, in poisoning and then ultimately murdering Titus.

 

And if Quintus was not so headstrong about striving for politics, he would still be alive and a rich, rich man. 

 

With the constant belittling of his son, i can't agree that he's a great father, or even a good father. I would say he's great at pretty much everything else, and we see where Quintus got the ability to make great speeches. :) A good father though, I just don't see it,

 

Quintus was just as bad in his choices. Titus found it easier to believe Lucretia lead him astray. He held the belief that if she went away, Quintus could start being the good little son he wanted. That wasn't going to happen even if she did leave. That was sort of like Doctore blaming Ashur for the house becoming corrupt. While, he was certainly part of it, it was going to happen without his help.

[green]

^ I concur.  Quintus was pretty much forced into following in his father's footsteps which constantly left him feeling unsatisfied.  He mentioned specifically both a chance to serve in the military and wanting to get into politics.  Since he couldn't do the latter directly he felt forced into using the family business as a stepping stone into politics.  Which steams Titus because it soils the honor of his business in his mind and they should know their place in society and climbing that high is bad form.  Then there is the belittling Meushell mentions.  I wouldn't want Titus as a father.

 

In the meantime the "business" is all about slaves forced to kill each other for the pleasure of others so honor is a relative thing here and not something any of us would call honorable.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Obviously, if you take a step back and look at Titus from our modern-day perspective, he's a slave-owner who profits by turning meat and bold into gold, as an ep put it.

 

But from the context of his time, Titus only wanted what was best for Quintus. The berating, the ultimatums and everything else were all in the interest of Quintus, not because Titus is a bad person or dad. 

 

I don't think that TItus was dreamcrushing Quintus's desires for the hell of it. He just had a realistic notion of how Roman society was structured and knew that the patricians would never embrace Quintus with open arms. If you think about the prostitution, rape and murder it took to get Quintus in the position where he is in Blood and Sand, and that combined with having the undisputed No. 1 stud gladiator of Capua still didn't get him really accepted, it seems like Titus was right to try to dreamcrush.

 

Quintus, sadly, was blind to that for the most part by his very own ambition.

 

As to Quintus becoming a better son absent Lucretia, who knows? 

Edited October 10, 2014 by Chicago Redshirt

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the the prequel season S00. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.