S03.E01: Anne

[Mya Stone]

 

Buffy -- living on her own in a big city -- assists a girl whose boyfriend has mysteriously vanished. Back in Sunnydale, Buffy's friends do their best to battle the forces of evil.

 

As a teenager, I hated this season premiere for so many reasons. 

Well, one: a distinct lack of Angel. 

It has grown on me a lot, over time though. The return of Chanterelle/Lily/Anne! (Who's less-than-tertiary character arc of growth between Buffy and Angel matches Wesley's in awesomeness, IMO.) The idea that time in hell moves faster than on Earth (To Be Ominously Continued). The pieces that the Scoobs have scraped together to survive. 

Once the show finds it's snark again (and Buffy declares her name), it feels like home. (I could do without the whole Xander/Willow subtext that turns into text later on. I say this as a girl who's best friend all throughout middle and high school was a guy. A guy who was gorgeous, and sweet, and funny, and amazing...and just not for me. We dated for 3 days in 6th grade and realized we were destined to be friends. The line was never crossed again. Heck, we were each other's prom dates, but we never got in the way of each other's relationships, I don't buy that storyline for a million reasons, but my own experience first and foremost makes me doubt it. Plus. Sad Oz = Sad Mya. Whoops. I digress.) 

So yay for the start of S3! 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎11‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 2:31 AM, Mya Stone said:

 

As a teenager, I hated this season premiere for so many reasons. 

Well, one: a distinct lack of Angel. 

It has grown on me a lot, over time though. The return of Chanterelle/Lily/Anne! (Who's less-than-tertiary character arc of growth between Buffy and Angel matches Wesley's in awesomeness, IMO.) The idea that time in hell moves faster than on Earth (To Be Ominously Continued). The pieces that the Scoobs have scraped together to survive. 

Once the show finds it's snark again (and Buffy declares her name), it feels like home. (I could do without the whole Xander/Willow subtext that turns into text later on. I say this as a girl who's best friend all throughout middle and high school was a guy. A guy who was gorgeous, and sweet, and funny, and amazing...and just not for me. We dated for 3 days in 6th grade and realized we were destined to be friends. The line was never crossed again. Heck, we were each other's prom dates, but we never got in the way of each other's relationships, I don't buy that storyline for a million reasons, but my own experience first and foremost makes me doubt it. Plus. Sad Oz = Sad Mya. Whoops. I digress.) 

So yay for the start of S3! 

They do manage to slip Angel in there, quite cleverly. Personally I love Nighthawk and the Scoobs fighting the good fight whilst Buffy is away, I was always interested in eps which upset the formula

Spoiler

like Gunn tackling a case by himself whilst Wes, CC and Angel are at Joyce's funeral or Gunn, Fred and Connor running the business whilst Lorne's in Vegas, Angel is snorkelling and Wes running his rival business. 

Is there Xander/Willow subtext in this ep? I must have missed it if there was? Can't believe you didn't mention the long tracking shot through the school or Joyce alone?

The Good; Lovely to see Chantelle/Lily/Anne again. Great to see the slave rebellion. Love the long tracking shot around Sunnydale high, lovely cameo from Larry. Nice to see that Buffy can make it on her own but did anyone really doubt that she could? The gang's vamp hunting is hilarious. Terrific scenes between Giles and Joyce. The final scene when Buffy and Joyce hug is just too lovely.

The Bad; Truly horrible what happens to the human slaves. Ricky's suicide is just awful

Whedon Clichés;

Character death; None although Buffy still dreams of killing Angel

Knocked out; Buffy by Ken

Kinky dinky; Buffy as a slave but not of the sexual variety. Anne Summers is the name of a lingerie/sex toy chain in the UK. Xander rather crudely wants to know if Buffy met 'any nice pimps on her travels' (Pretty Woman/Belle du Jour)?

Reccurring actor in another role; Carlos Jacott as Ken who'll later turn up as someone different in Angel, Firefly and TSSC

Best line; Giles; "You musn't blame yourself"

Joyce; "I don't, I blame YOU. You've been this huge influence on her all these years"

Questions and observations; As Xander wonders surely a girl as attractive as Buffy could get a better job than waitress in LA? As about the only funny part in 'The Last Action Hero' pointed out;

Kid; (pointing to a gorgeous girl working behind the counter of the video store) "She is way too beautiful to work here"

Schwarzeneger; (flirting with the girl)"You're right"

Kid; "No you don't get it, there are no unattractive women here, all the women are beautiful, we have to be in a movie"

Schwarzeneger; "No kid, this is LA"

Weren't Hooters/Spearmint Rhino/Playboy/Penthouse/Madam Alex/Hedi Fleiss hiring or couldn't she find herself a sugardaddy? (ok I'm entirely non-serious but it is SUCH a Hollywood cliché, like casting a blatant supermodel as a scientist by just giving her glasses and a lab coat) Or is Buffy just trying to lie low? Cordy refers to Xanders exes who are almost all demons, Preying Mantis, Mummy Girl, Dru in BBB. Xander nails his third vamp with some help from Cordy. Joyce is a sad figure in her summer alone without Buffy but at least in everyone's revised memories

Spoiler

she has Dawn to keep her company (to judge from the comics and Dawn's chopstick story she always knew Buffy's secret).

I'm always intrigued by the times the Scoobies got by without Buffy, I would love to see more on it in the comics.

One thing that does occur to me is that the weapon used by Buffy during the slave revolt (the wonderfully named hung-munga) actually resembles a hammer and sickle at some angles. I'm sure it's just coincidence but if this were the 50s I'm sure Joss would be hauled before the un-American activities board.

8/10 I think although that may be a little generous

[Halting Hex]

On 6/28/2018 at 1:04 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Is there Xander/Willow subtext in this ep? I must have missed it if there was?

Let me know if you find it.  You'd never know he spent the summer hanging around the girl he'd secretly confessed his love for while his (nominal) girlfriend was away.  The fanficcers did a much better job of picking up on that than this episode does.  

Instead, we get ham-handed resets on Willow/Oz and Xander/Cordelia during that obnoxiously long tracking shot.  (Hey, Joss, showy directing is only impressive if you're showing something worthwhile!)  Why exactly did Oz not graduate?  It's not as if you hadn't already established that there are at least two colleges in town (the community college that Buffy says Angel goes to in Angel, and Crestwood from Reptile Boy), why not have Oz enrolled at one of them and have him show up to Scooby after school?  Or if there's an emergency, he can blow off class.  (That happens in college, you know.  Usually without the "there's an emergency" excuse.)  The only thing you'd be sacrificing is showing Oz in classroom scenes at Sunnydale High.  And we haven't seen that even once to date.

Meanwhile, Xander and Cordelia are back to mean sniping and cheesy music during the makeout sessions.  It's as if Joss forgot that Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered (Cordelia decides that following her heart is more important than being popular), Killed by Death (Cordelia demands respect in the relationship; Xander gives it to her) and Go Fish (Cordy's willing to stand by Xander, no matter what) ever happened.  You'd think that someone who just got done writing Becoming, Part 1, where Xander punches vampires despite a broken wrist to allow Cordelia to escape, might be above the (admittedly-funny) line about "the vampire kills you. We watch; we rejoice", but apparently not.  Forced regression for false "progress", come on down!  Sigh.

Spoiler

As made even more explicit in Amends with the "she certainly has reverted to type" line.  So "nice" of them to undo all of Cordelia's character growth just so they can re-do it on Angel, isn't it?

Overall, an empty and worthless directing reel, further damaged by poor pacing (that's a loooooong Act IV), character assassination (why is Giles letting the Scoobs patrol without him?  He certainly saw patrolling in Buffy's absence as his duty in Ted and BB&B) and a shitty musical act.  (I don't care if the singer for Bellylove has nice tits, "Depressing Night at the Bronze" was never so apt.  Get them off the stage!)

Oh, and out of thousands of slaves in the other dimension, Buffy rescues what, six people?  (And one of those is Stupid Lily, who really wasn't worth it.)  Gee, thanks, Buff.

And the less said about that "Lonely people on the streets of LA" montage, the better.  Buffy may suck at undercover, but this episode just plain sucks.  Pass.

[Joe Hellandback]

7 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Let me know if you find it.  You'd never know he spent the summer hanging around the girl he'd secretly confessed his love for while his (nominal) girlfriend was away.  The fanficcers did a much better job of picking up on that than this episode does.  

Instead, we get ham-handed resets on Willow/Oz and Xander/Cordelia during that obnoxiously long tracking shot.  (Hey, Joss, showy directing is only impressive if you're showing something worthwhile!)  Why exactly did Oz not graduate?  It's not as if you hadn't already established that there are at least two colleges in town (the community college that Buffy says Angel goes to in Angel, and Crestwood from Reptile Boy), why not have Oz enrolled at one of them and have him show up to Scooby after school?  Or if there's an emergency, he can blow off class.  (That happens in college, you know.  Usually without the "there's an emergency" excuse.)  The only thing you'd be sacrificing is showing Oz in classroom scenes at Sunnydale High.  And we haven't seen that even once to date.

Meanwhile, Xander and Cordelia are back to mean sniping and cheesy music during the makeout sessions.  It's as if Joss forgot that Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered (Cordelia decides that following her heart is more important than being popular), Killed by Death (Cordelia demands respect in the relationship; Xander gives it to her) and Go Fish (Cordy's willing to stand by Xander, no matter what) ever happened.  You'd think that someone who just got done writing Becoming, Part 1, where Xander punches vampires despite a broken wrist to allow Cordelia to escape, might be above the (admittedly-funny) line about "the vampire kills you. We watch; we rejoice", but apparently not.  Forced regression for false "progress", come on down!  Sigh.

  Hide contents

As made even more explicit in Amends with the "she certainly has reverted to type" line.  So "nice" of them to undo all of Cordelia's character growth just so they can re-do it on Angel, isn't it?

Overall, an empty and worthless directing reel, further damaged by poor pacing (that's a loooooong Act IV), character assassination (why is Giles letting the Scoobs patrol without him?  He certainly saw patrolling in Buffy's absence as his duty in Ted and BB&B) and a shitty musical act.  (I don't care if the singer for Bellylove has nice tits, "Depressing Night at the Bronze" was never so apt.  Get them off the stage!)

Oh, and out of thousands of slaves in the other dimension, Buffy rescues what, six people?  (And one of those is Stupid Lily, who really wasn't worth it.)  Gee, thanks, Buff.

And the less said about that "Lonely people on the streets of LA" montage, the better.  Buffy may suck at undercover, but this episode just plain sucks.  Pass.

Really? I still don't see any Will/Xander subtext, that comes later, we see CC and X both insecure reconnecting. As for Oz, I always took it as just an excuse to spend more time with Willow. We only ever see a dozen slaves in the demon dimension and Lily was absolutely worth it. I always figured Giles was too busy looking for Buffy so he lets the Scoobs patrol alone.  

[Halting Hex]

No, I was agreeing with you that the Willow/Xander subtext was lacking; my argument is that it should be there, given the immediate past (Becoming, Part 2) as well as 

Spoiler

upcoming episodes

 

3 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

As for Oz, I always took it as just an excuse to spend more time with Willow.

He repeats an entire school year to hang out with his girlfriend?  Forget Angel, I think we've found the creepy stalker in the group!

3 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

We only ever see a dozen slaves in the demon dimension

Well, that's Joss's budgetary considerations there.  But the logistics of the operation (which don't make much sense anyhow, with the "Ricky aged decades in a day" bit) don't really make any sense on such a small scale.  Why bother setting up inter-dimensional portals to lure a dozen slaves?  Hell, it's not even worth the printing costs of the flyers, never mind paying off the nurse, unless you've got at least an entire factory's worth of workers, IMO.

[Joe Hellandback]

6 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

No, I was agreeing with you that the Willow/Xander subtext was lacking; my argument is that it should be there, given the immediate past (Becoming, Part 2) as well as 

  Hide contents

upcoming episodes

 

He repeats an entire school year to hang out with his girlfriend?  Forget Angel, I think we've found the creepy stalker in the group!

Well, that's Joss's budgetary considerations there.  But the logistics of the operation (which don't make much sense anyhow, with the "Ricky aged decades in a day" bit) don't really make any sense on such a small scale.  Why bother setting up inter-dimensional portals to lure a dozen slaves?  Hell, it's not even worth the printing costs of the flyers, never mind paying off the nurse, unless you've got at least an entire factory's worth of workers, IMO.

1. I kind of like it that they take it slow, gives it all the more impact when it does occur.

2. To hang out with his younger, junior girlfriend no less! Like I said the whole series is an ephebophile's dream. But remember Oz is the man who will;

Spoiler

turn down the chance to get kissy with Willow in Innocence because he knows she's trying to get revenge on Xander and turn down her offering him her virginity. 

3. Demons, not really the type for economics, that's why humanity rules.  

[Sharna Pax]

I love this episode. It's cheesy as all hell, but I love seeing Buffy do good on such a small, human scale. Most of the time, Buffy shows up and kicks ass and saves someone's life and you never see them again or have any idea how this affected them. But in this episode, Buffy has to actively engage with Lily as a human being and help her again and again over the course of the episode. And yes, Buffy eventually takes up her hammer and sickle and liberates the oppressed workers, but that alone doesn't save Lily. What saves her is Buffy getting her a job and giving her a place to live with the rent paid up for the first month. And not only that - when Lily takes the name Anne, you see how much Buffy has been a role model to her, just by existing. Even at her lowest point, Buffy is able to live her life and do her job and be independent, and just seeing that has made Lily realize that she can do the same thing. So it's an episode about how we can help each other out, and specifically about how women can help each other out, and though Buffy's superpowers come into it, they're not really the main story at all. And I love, love, love, that Angel follows up on this story and gives you periodic glimpses of Anne's life as a community organizer/ social worker, doing for others what Buffy did for her. She even comes into the last episode of Angel - as Angel & Co. are running around in the foreground being heroic and gearing up for the big fight, there's Anne in the background, just doggedly going about her work, running the homeless shelter, taking care of the people she's responsible for. She becomes this wonderful representation of practical, everyday heroism, and it's a lovely reminder - like Prom, but more subtle - of how much good Buffy has done without even knowing it.

[Joe Hellandback]

15 hours ago, Sharna Pax said:

I love this episode. It's cheesy as all hell, but I love seeing Buffy do good on such a small, human scale. Most of the time, Buffy shows up and kicks ass and saves someone's life and you never see them again or have any idea how this affected them. But in this episode, Buffy has to actively engage with Lily as a human being and help her again and again over the course of the episode. And yes, Buffy eventually takes up her hammer and sickle and liberates the oppressed workers, but that alone doesn't save Lily. What saves her is Buffy getting her a job and giving her a place to live with the rent paid up for the first month. And not only that - when Lily takes the name Anne, you see how much Buffy has been a role model to her, just by existing. Even at her lowest point, Buffy is able to live her life and do her job and be independent, and just seeing that has made Lily realize that she can do the same thing. So it's an episode about how we can help each other out, and specifically about how women can help each other out, and though Buffy's superpowers come into it, they're not really the main story at all. And I love, love, love, that Angel follows up on this story and gives you periodic glimpses of Anne's life as a community organizer/ social worker, doing for others what Buffy did for her. She even comes into the last episode of Angel - as Angel & Co. are running around in the foreground being heroic and gearing up for the big fight, there's Anne in the background, just doggedly going about her work, running the homeless shelter, taking care of the people she's responsible for. She becomes this wonderful representation of practical, everyday heroism, and it's a lovely reminder - like Prom, but more subtle - of how much good Buffy has done without even knowing it.

That's a great way of putting it, this is bargain basement Buffy, without the Scoobs or Giles or even any weapons making it on her own but still coming out on top, very First Blood. I remember a great Batman fanfic I read where instead of being a billionaire Bruce Wayne is just an ordinary working stiff, his mum and dad are a paramedic and nurse, The Manor is just the tenement block they live in, Alfred is the caretaker and Gordon the local beat cop. So after his parent's murder Bruce bides his time, learns every conceivable martial at the YMCA whilst learning about crime in the Gotham library, joins the ROTC and police cadets then signs up for the army and returns to Gotham a captain in the Delta Force. He sets up his own Batcave in the abandoned parking garage under the block of flats and makes up his own Batmobile from a modified Ford Mustang (just as Bruce has now on Gotham), funding his operation by ripping off drug dealers.  

[lembergwatcher]

While Buffy was out of Sunnydale (and wanted for murder) it seems odd that detective Stein didn't get a search warrant for Summers house where he could find some very interesting things. Like stolen rocket launcher. Also I find it highly unlikely even for Sunnydale PD not to share some information regarding Buffy with other police departments across the state/country. Though LA is a big city it's still kinda strange the cops failed to track her down given that Buffy wasn't really hiding. I mean she admitted it herself: "I just suck at undercover". And I don't think LAPD was as inept as their collegues from Sunnydale. 

[illdoc]

1 hour ago, lembergwatcher said:

it seems odd that detective Stein didn't get a search warrant for Summers house where he could find some very interesting things. Like stolen rocket launcher

I think it would be hard to hide that at Casa Summers---after all, Joyce didn't know Buffy was the Slayer and she probably goes into more parts of the house than Buffy does on a regular basis. The launcher is probably at Giles'. However, Buffy does have stakes, knives, mini-axes, etc in her weapons trunk in her room, which the Sunnydale PD could find.

[Halting Hex]

I think Xander had to have returned the rocket launcher to the Army base before the next inventory, otherwise the guard would have ID'd him and Cordelia when the shit hit the fan, and I doubt that the authorities could have taken five years to find him.  There aren't that many students in this one-Starbucks town, after all.

Buffy knows where it is; she can steal it all on her own. (Again.)

[Joe Hellandback]

12 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

While Buffy was out of Sunnydale (and wanted for murder) it seems odd that detective Stein didn't get a search warrant for Summers house where he could find some very interesting things. Like stolen rocket launcher. Also I find it highly unlikely even for Sunnydale PD not to share some information regarding Buffy with other police departments across the state/country. Though LA is a big city it's still kinda strange the cops failed to track her down given that Buffy wasn't really hiding. I mean she admitted it herself: "I just suck at undercover". And I don't think LAPD was as inept as their collegues from Sunnydale. 

I doubt she kept the LAW at home, not least because she obtained it before Joyce knew her secret, even Joycey wouldn't be in that much denial if she found it. Police departments tend not to share info and LA is some way away (why the FBI has Vicap). Besides, with everyone now able to back up Buffy's story she is now no longer wanted. 

[lembergwatcher]

Just now, Joe Hellandback said:

I doubt she kept the LAW at home, not least because she obtained it before Joyce knew her secret

Even ordinary weapon Buffy kept in her room would have been enough for the police to conduct further investigation.

 

5 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Police departments tend not to share info and LA is some way away

1) You mean they don't have nationwide manhunts? Then how do they track down dangerous criminals on the run if they move across different cities/states? 2) Well, AFAIK LA is surely not on the other planet.

[Joe Hellandback]

12 minutes ago, lembergwatcher said:

Even ordinary weapon Buffy kept in her room would have been enough for the police to conduct further investigation.

 

1) You mean they don't have nationwide manhunts? Then how do they track down dangerous criminals on the run if they move across different cities/states? 2) Well, AFAIK LA is surely not on the other planet.

Knives and swords and stakes? No, if it was an Uzi it would be different.

Yes they do but not for one crime and it's normally the Federal Marshall's service or FBI using Vicap that lead them. I would also imagine the Mayor wouldn't want the Federal authorities digging around too much

Spoiler

(although as we see they are aware). 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[lembergwatcher]

Since Giles is (apparently) no slouch in magic, shouldn't it be easier to try some spell to locate his runaway Slayer instead of flying to Oakland? Dragon's Cove is not that far in case he needs supplies...

Honestly, why can't G-Man, the oldest and most experienced demon hunter in the gang, use some good old magic to find Buffy rather than constantly travel here and there allowing three teens to risk their lives while trying to take out the things that go bump in the night?  Yes, Buffy is his responsibility first and foremost, but so are Willow, Xander and Oz. I think Giles has to be more involved in the Slayerettes' activity, not just "appreciate their efforts" or promise to "take it somewhat amiss" if they die.

Sometimes it seems like he knows all along where Buffy is but doesn't want her back mostly due to Jenny and the Slayer's dereliction of duty.

And what kind of heartless self-absorbed bitch one has to be as not to call/write to her own mother, her surrogate father who suffered hours of torture or her supposed best friend who nearly died trying to save Buffy's boyfriend in three darn months? Does she still have a soul? Feels like Buffy's lost some part of that precious soul and most of her humanity in general after the memorable one night stand in Surprise too... 

[Halting Hex]

2 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Since Giles is (apparently) no slouch in magic, shouldn't it be easier to try some spell to locate his runaway Slayer instead of flying to Oakland?

Nothing says he didn't try; we just didn't see the failures.  There's been nothing to suggest that spells can find "One Girl in All the World", when they've literally all the world to search.  Unless you wonder how Merrick found her in the first place, but perhaps the transfer of Slayer Essence (from Buffy's predecessor to Buffy) leaves a mystical trace that doesn't persist wherever Buffy travels for the rest of her life.

2 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Honestly, why can't G-Man, the oldest and most experienced demon hunter in the gang, use some good old magic to find Buffy rather than constantly travel here and there allowing three teens to risk their lives while trying to take out the things that go bump in the night? 

Well, apparently Giles doesn't need to be darting up to Oakland to check out a Raiders game to let Xilloz go out on patrol, unescorted.  We see in this very episode his choosing to stay in the Library, with nothing more than a few words of caution sent Willow's way, rather than actual help.  And no, I don't know why he's decided to forsake patrolling in Buffy's absence (in contrast to Ted or BB&B), but clearly his flaking off this way is not dependent on his travel plans, or lack of same.

2 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

what kind of heartless self-absorbed bitch one has to be as not to call/write to her own mother, her surrogate father who suffered hours of torture or her supposed best friend who nearly died trying to save Buffy's boyfriend in three darn months?

Joyce threw her out.  And she blames herself for W/X/G's injuries, probably thinking "they'll be better off without me".  It appears to be guilt (as seen in that last scene in Becoming, Part 2 of her watching from across the street) that keeps her away, not selfishness.

Of course, that's dubious logic, at best.  (Hello, Hellmouth?)  But she took last summer off as well, and it seemed to go okay, so…

Spoiler

And of course that whole "she feels guilty about her friends' suffering" riff takes a hit next episode, when Buffy nearly snits off because the gang didn't burst out the champagne and streamers immediately, and gets very neatly buried when Angel returns and Buffy spends several episodes lying to everyone because she's so SCARED that Giles and Willow (the HELL??) might hurt Dear Sweet Innocent Forehead (he's better, now!  Until next time, which is less than two years away…), so I have a lot of difficulty in clinging to that theory as consolation.

But that's for the future.  As of 3.01, it's still possible to believe that Buffy has a conscience.  Let's enjoy it while it lasts.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

I've been waiting for six straight episodes to see Xander repaying Oz for his punch in the face in BB&B. No such luck, of course (Xander's not allowed to beat the "cool" guys

Spoiler

including Willow's soon to be first,

after all). But at least Vamp!Andrew did the job due to his gymnastic skills...

[Halting Hex]

"That's right.  I heard about her. [Ampata]."

But how did you hear about Mummy Girl, Cordy?   You weren't really in the loop back then; you didn't even know that Angel was a vampire.  Who spilled the beans?

Clearly not Xander, as he's surprised to learn that Cordelia knows.

Angel wasn't around for the whole Ampata business, and I'd like to think that even Buffy would be sensitive enough not to gossip about Xander's hard-luck dating with someone who obviously isn't in Xander's fan club (or vice versa).  Besides, by the time C/X come out of the utility closet about their relationship, Angel has lost his soul and is spending considerably less time around the gang.    Although it is amusing to imagine Angel giving Spike and Dru some alone time so that he can hang out on Cordelia's porch (one assumes she wasn't inviting him in, given that she was already terrified about his turning up in her car), taunting CC about Xander's past liaisons.  (Angel does eventually find out that Cordy and Xander are an item; he sees them leaving the Bronze together at the start of Passion.)  But it still seems unlikely.

Perhaps Jonathan burst into a nervous account of his near-tryst with Ampata while he was on that date with Cordelia that we see at the end of Reptile Boy?  That would explain why there was no second date, but it still requires CC to put a lot of pieces together.  And she does do better with hints, IMO.

I suppose that Buffy might have been "casually" trying to scare Cordelia off, if she was in one of her Xillow-'shipping moods.  "You know, I'm really glad Xander has somebody he can count on.  That teacher who turned out to be a praying mantis was bad enough, but then the Inca Mummy Girl?  Ugh.  Although he did say she was a heck of a kisser…"  Not that Cordy couldn't have seen through tactics like that, of course.

Once Willow and Cordelia make up, halfway through Phases, they do start "spending a scary amount of time together", according to Xander.  Still, I don't know that Willow would have opened the "every girl Xander ever dated that broke my heart" file up to Xander's current girlfriend (whom she was calling "a skanky ho" at the start of the episode), even given the girls' "Xander's so obsessed with Buffy it's as if I don't even exist!" bonding the two of them are now doing.

Oz didn't know about Ampata, treats Cordelia with barely-disguised contempt, and isn't a chatty type.  Very unlikely, IMO.

Jenny Calendar saw the younger Slayerettes as "kids".  (Always ironic to note that Robia is all of 17 days older than Charisma, but Jenny definitely seems to see a generation gap in play, IMO.) Hard to imagine she'd be swapping tales of their romantic adventures with others in the gang, I'd say.

Giles has kept Xander's confidences in the past (see The Pack); hard to think that he'd break with that precedent now.

I suppose that Joyce might have been a catalyst, if not a direct source of information.  Presumably there was a certain amount of bringing Joyce up to speed over the summer, to convince her that Buffy isn't crazy, this stuff really happens.  (Wouldn't want Buffy to actually end up that mental institution that Ted threatened her with, after all.)

And Ampata might well have been a subject for discussion, since she was staying at Joyce's house, after all.  And Joyce might have wondered why "Ampata" just "went home" ahead of schedule.

(Then again, it's Joyce.  She doesn't exactly have a sterling record for being aware of Buffy's life.  So maybe she simply blithely accepted Buffy's telling her that Ampata caught the bus back to Peru and never gave it another thought.)

So perhaps Cordelia was there when the gang filled in the details for Joyce's benefit, or maybe Joyce later repeated what Giles or Willow or Xander had told her, thinking that Cordelia already knew.  Not impossible, I'll suppose.

Spoiler

Although clearly the group didn't tell Joyce everything, since we see in Faith, Hope, and Trick that the whole "Buffy died and everything" [/Xander, Prophecy Girl] story didn't exactly make it into the synopsis.  So who knows what Joyce was told about Ampata, if anything?

So…whose lips spilled the Mummy tip, do you think?  Inquiring minds want to know…

Edited April 20, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

So…whose lips spilled the Mummy tip, do you think?

Interesting question. I think that was either Jonathan or Buffy. Our Slayer is all sensitive and protective when it comes to Willow, but not Xander. That happens when you treat one of your supposed best friends as a soulmate and another one as some hanger-on.

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

if she was in one of her Xillow-'shipping moods

Buffy and Xillow-'shipping moods?? Sorry, no such thing. Are we talking about Buffy the Godmother of Willoz?..

[Halting Hex]

Buffy wants Willow to be happy, pure and simple.  (Yes, part of this might be that she's in love with Willow herself, given that she gives up her "no slaying" vow in the pilot the moment she sees Willow in danger and that she is willing to die in Prophecy Girl once she sees Willow's trauma [no more "I quit" after that], but she puts Willow's happiness above her own.  Willow wants a boy, Buffy will get her boys.  Simple as that.) So, sure she'll throw Willow at Oz if Will seems interested and Oz seems receptive, but before our Werewolf Guitarist had even acquired his hairy back, Buffy is glaring at Hyena!Xander for hurting Willow's feelings in The Pack (and arguing to Willow and Giles that Xander's doing so must mean that evil is afoot, rather than the "Xander's just being a dick" position that Giles is too willing to default to), and urging Willow to speak up and ask Xander out (sweaty palms or not) in Angel, and trying to get "Belle of the Ball"!Xander to admit that he's jealous about "Malcolm" in I Robot, You Jane.

She's surprised by Xillow's claim that they're "dating" in Never Kill A Boy, Not Even Boring Owen, but not opposed to it.  She expresses shock to Xander that somebody could know Willow and not be obsessed with her lips tries to get Xander to admit his romantic feelings in Inca Mummy Girl, and urges Willow to get "sexy and wild" if she wants to be "noticed" in Halloween. Yes, she puts that last in general terms and it might only be about her own "wow, you're a dish" Willow-feelings, but canonically, Buffy knows who Willow wants to "notice" her, and she's encouraging it.  (It's no coincidence that Buffy's disappointment in Willow's opting to "Casper" herself kicks in when the $2 Costume King himself has arrived.)  

Even as late as Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, she's telling Xander that he should be dating "someone more…better" than Cordelia, only to have her face fall when Xander says that  Buffy is "the only other person he's interested in."  Clearly, she wanted him to wake up and smell the Willow, regardless of the fact that Woz had just had their first kiss the episode before.  Just because Buffy wasn't thrilled about Xander sitting back and bitching about Willow's choices and denying Willow her agency in his kvetching over W/O at the end of Phases ("Xander…it's not up to you"), that doesn't mean that she still isn't hoping he'll stop wasting his life (and, more importantly, Willow's) calling 1-800-I'm-Dating-A-Skanky-Ho and give Willow the attention she deserves.  And still craves; the fire axe later in the episode may be the spell talking, but the "I love you so much" is pure Willow, IMO.

(Also?  You're a liar, Harris.  You're admitting to Willow that you do find her "sexy" before the episode's hour is up.  "Only other person" is about as real as Amy's invisible homework.  Sigh.)

So I do think that Buffy's "make Willow happy" Prime Directive extends to promoting Xillow, even if it's not the only option she's willing to accept. But JMO. 

[Halting Hex]

So I was ranting explaining again about how ridiculous it was that Willow doesn't know Oz is ditching Summer School when I realized that Willow probably blames herself for Oz's failure to graduate, since she got injured and he had to care for her.  (I'd like to think that Xander and Cordy [pre-Las Palmas] also helped with Will's recovery, but Oz is the Official Boyfriend.). And, because she felt responsible, Teacher!Willow be all over making sure Oz didn't suffer for "her" mistakes.

But nooooo, she's completely in the dark.

And say, doesn't Oz love Willow really deeply?  Odd that he manages to lie to her for an entire summer, then.  Even Angel filled Buffy in about the "I lost my soul and now I want to torture and kill all of you" news within a day.  Huh.

Spoiler

Okay, so this won't be the last time one of Willow's "perfect" partners will spend a long-ass time lying to her.  But at least Tara will have (sort of) an excuse.  "I'm scared that I'm really a demon and Buffy will have to kill me" is a heck of a lot more reason to hide things than "I just didn't feel like going to class and now I'm going to cancel my college enrollment and spend an extra year at a high school that's on top of an active Hellmouth because I'm too stoned to bother", I'm just saying.

 

[lembergwatcher]

5 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

But nooooo, she's completely in the dark.

I bet all of them were soooo busy either taking care of Post Coma/Wheelchair!Willow or trying to do something about the rise of vampiric activity in Sunnydale with no help from Giles, our "lovebirds" just didn't have time to, you know, talk things over. Timing is a bitch in Buffyverse, as we all know.

Or Joss was simply too stoned to focus and give a thought about the whole concept.

Seems like Angel(us) was no match for the ol' Master so the things that go bump in the night didn't notice him going bye-bye after the whole Acathla crisis. When Papa Nest met his demise the whole vampiric community kinda kept a low profile right until the return of Queen Buffy, the one and only, from LA in WSWB. But with fmr. Scourge of Europe gone the vamps just kept on doing what they do best and thus the small group of Avengers (Willow, Xander, Oz) had to do Buffy's job without day-offs.

OTOH since vampire hunting is a job you do after dark, there were still daylight hours which I guess are quite long in California in the summertime. Both Oz and Willow just had to talk about something. Did they talk solely about computer programs or Gummy bears? Or Buffy? Probably something really big, since Willow forgot to thank her boyfriend for helping waking her up from coma while Oz decided against telling Willow about ditching Summer School.
Maybe all three of them (W/O/X) were too preoccupied with Buffy and her possible whereabouts. Since the Scoobies' lives revolve around the blonde Slayer no wonder they were totally unable to find the time to discuss minor things like summer schools...

[Halting Hex]

I think difference between Angel and the Master was that the Master wanted a big group of devotees, the whole Order of Aurelius.  (I mean, look how many vamps there are in Prophecy Girl.) 

Whereas Angel apparently only really cared about Spike and Dru.  After Innocence, he doesn't even keep any minions around, until he starts "recruiting" in Go Fish.  So if you don't make yourself a leader, nobody cares if you die.  The S1 vamps were in shock that the Master (600+ years old, after all, and heir to a line of prophecies he'd reinforced by finding the Anointed) had been killed, and went into hiding.  But nobody was mourning Angel, so random vamps drifted in and made newbies.  No order without the Order, apparently.

Speaking of new vampires, never mind how irresponsible it is for Giles (who's trained all his life for this shit) to be hiding in the Library while a bunch of kids are facing deadly monsters without even the semblance of a plan. 

I mean, the teaser makes no fucking sense, tactically.  Why doesn't Xander just "help" Andy out of the grave and then Oz can stake him before he knows what's going on?  Why does Oz have to "draw" his stake instead of just having it ready?  Why doesn't Willow just have a crossbow (they're not hard to learn) cocked and aimed instead of making the tough-girl talk?  Sheesh.  Where's Mr "Plunge and Move On" when they need him?

But aside from all of that, and aside from how Giles used to see patrolling in Buffy's absence (Ted, BB&B) as his duty, the kids are "losing half the vamps".  Shouldn't Giles (who gets paid for this gig, after all) be concerned about that?  Where does he think the vampires go?  Do they scamper off to Universal Studios to ride the rollercoasters?  Probably not.

No, "vampires hunt and kill, that's what they do".  Might want to put a stop to that, Rupert.  I realize you miss your hot young girlfriend*, but how about you save some lives and let Buffy come back when she's ready?  Even if it means you just have to masturbate until she's back.  It's why God gave you a left hand, after all.

(*-Okay, so there's precious little evidence that Giles and Buffy were actually boinking.  I'm just reacting to Joyce saying he had "a whole relationship with her behind my back".  I swear, for a second, that sounded like Joyce accusing Giles of cheating on her.  So I just ran with that.  Sorry, lol.)

[Halting Hex]

So, not only is it ridiculous that Oz repeats an entire year of school just to stalk his underage girlfriend, or how stupid it is that he doesn't just take that GED and move on with his life, and how out of character it is that Willow doesn't know he's ditching summer school (and that Oz is massively lying to her, if only by omission)…

And as annoying it is that we still have almost no basic character development on Oz, from not knowing what (if anything) he's told his band about his new circumstances, to whether he's confronted his family about where this lycanthropy came from and what are they (and little Jordy) going to do about it, to how it impairs his relationship with Willow that they can barely interact physically, to why isn't anyone trying to cure him so he doesn't have to spend his life in chains…

…there's one issue that intersects both the "why doesn't Oz get out of here?" and "Oz is such a one-dimensional character" points: 

Oz is a monster.  Buffy kills monsters.  Why would Oz want to be around Buffy any more than he has to?

Oz met Angel on Tuesday.  By Thursday, it was "we have to kill Angel.  And oh, by the way, do you mind breaking into an army base and risking federal imprisonment until you're in your thirties?  Just wondering."  And, as far as Oz knows, Buffy did (eventually) kill Angel.  Wouldn't it be wiser to move on to college and see Willow when she was away from her slay-happy gal pal?  Buffy isn't in love with you, after all.  At least, not as far as we know.

Sure, Buffy's out of town right now, but it seems unwise to bet on that lasting forever.  (It doesn't even last this entire episode.)  Go to college, already, Wolfboy.  Heck, go to UCLA and let Willow come down and see you on weekends.

Otherwise, if something goes wrong, you could be looking down on your hairy corpse from the afterlife and thinking "I guess I should have graduated, after all."  Plus you probably won't like eavesdropping on the gang as they make plans to ship your pelt to Sri Lanka and sell it there.

(Hey, it might be insensitive, but the gang's got expenses.  Xander's poor, remember?

Quote

CARL MARIN:  A team's gotta eat. —Go Fish

Exactly, Coach.  You tell 'em.)

[lembergwatcher]

Brilliant analysis. As usual.

OTOH don't expect too much sense when it comes to a character whose (probably) sole aim in the show was to play the role of Willow's perfect boyfriend, some antipode to that uncool insensitive jackass Xander.

Then again, I don't wanna sound boring here, but what if the reason for Oz's odd behavior is quite simple? What if he's jealous and wants to make sure no one threatens his position as Willow's "first and only one"? What if he's overheard Xander's confession to Coma!Willow and just guards "his territory"? What if Oz is a possesive jerk?

[Halting Hex]

On 11/23/2018 at 6:03 PM, lembergwatcher said:

While Buffy was out of Sunnydale (and wanted for murder) it seems odd that detective Stein didn't get a search warrant for Summers house where he could find some very interesting things. Like a stolen rocket launcher.

Not only would Buffy have already returned the rocket launcher (indeed, she might have needed to return it that very night, which I'll post about in the Innocence topic), but she actually doesn't keep her swords and crossbows and such at home; that's what Giles has the weapons, er, "books" cage for.  If the cops think to check Buffy's footlocker for a false bottom (as shown in The Harvest), they'd find some interesting things, such as the garlic and the Communion wafers, but nothing much to help them build their murder case.  Even the stakes would mean anything unless the Sunnydale P.D. as a whole knew about vampires; after all, Kendra didn't get her throat sliced by wedge of wood.

About all that an ordinary search would prove was that Buffy was hiding her interest in Catholicism (remember, Joyce is most likely Protestant-turned-agnostic [there's a cut scene in one of the Becoming episodes where Joyce confronts Buffy about all those crosses, and it's mentioned than neither she nor Hank are religious]) and that she enjoys gardening.

*******************************

It's only just occurred to me that having Buffy work at Helen's Kitchen was probably Joss giving a hat-tip to his original, embryonic concept, "Norma, the Immortal Waitress".  So basically, Buffy's just going back to her roots.

And you may recall that at the beginning of the movie, the Elizabethan-era slayer (also played by Kristy Swanson) that Lothos hunts and kills was a tavern server. Apparently, it's a "family" tradition.  Huh.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Halting Hex

[Halting Hex]

Behind-the-scenes shots of this eps Bangel scene, from Fanpop as referenced elsewhere:

Is Buffy really dreaming about her and Angel doing a dance routine?  That would be a different kind of episode.

(Okay, it's probably just SMG using David's bulk as a wind-break.  Don't mind me.)

"Look, David, we made them laugh!"

Edited August 12, 2023 by Halting Hex

[Halting Hex]

And going to this right after finishing Season 2 makes me so damn nostalgic.  And not only for the obvious "Joss-is-now-a-hack" reasons.

Quote

STUPID LILY:  Come on, come on! Everybody, go!

(A whole 5 Ken-slaves climb the stairs)

SERGIO:  Yes, girl!  (Beat)  But what about everybody else?

CODY:  I know!

*************************************

(Buffy, Lily, and the 5 lucky extras climb up through the portal)

CODY:  Okay, but what about everybody else down there?

SERGIO: I know.  Were they all just a lost cause?

(Amazingly, I've seen people make the argument that it's okay for Buffy to leave hundreds [maybe thousands] of innocents behind because only Stupid Lily and the 5 randoms were worth saving.)

No, never mind my gripes about this stuff.  I just miss my show.  I had a random flashback to Buffy and Xander coming in on Giles practicing on asking his chair for a date in Some Assembly Required, and it all felt so different.

Perhaps part of my reaction is how Buffy is completely separated from her alleged friends, the entire episode.  Buffy never called them all summer (even though she apparently has a phone in that apartment, since she tells Stupid Anne that she'll call her to check in on her), and she never references them at all.

I know that Joe excused that silly and flatulent Obnoxiously Long Tracking Shot by saying it sets up the hard cut to Buffy alone in her apartment, but couldn't we do that a better way?  Say we start the season with a happy first day at school, with Willow being all perky and thanking Buffy for helping her through physical therapy and stuff (and Xander and Cordelia being snarky and Giles and Jenny waving cheerfully) and they're all talking and saying they're excited for senior year and we'll face it together…and then we do the hard cut.  Sure, it's a bit reminiscent of Buffy's dream in Act 2 of When She Was Bad, but to quote Oz, "there's a reason it's a classic".

But no, even Buffy's dream sequence is All About Forehead.  Annoying.

(Maybe I just miss the 16mm film stock?  Could be.

Also, Cody and Sergio are going to be pissed when they realize that Go Fish was the last "In every generation, there is a Slayer" intro they're ever going to get.  Too bad, guys.)

Edited September 27 by Halting Hex