Luckylyn July 30, 2014 Share July 30, 2014 Other than the episode Immortal Sins, I am not a fan at all of MD. I will say that I really liked Esther's desk jockey to field agent story so of course she gets killed. 1 Link to comment
Chip July 30, 2014 Share July 30, 2014 If this had been 5 episodes instead of 10, it could have been good. American TV just doesn't really get the idea of short series like the UK does. 1 Link to comment
Luckylyn July 30, 2014 Author Share July 30, 2014 I do think there was a lot of filler that ended up ultimately not mattering (Oswald). They didn't use their extra time wisely. 1 Link to comment
Captanne July 30, 2014 Share July 30, 2014 (edited) I think Oswald was heavy-handed by RTD in many ways. In just two, it was stunt casting (which -- does it matter I've never heard of this guy? He's a pretty low level character actor, no?) and "the Evil that Men Do" -- IOW, just another example of man's inhumanity to man. Also? It's not a Gala RTD Blockbuster without child raping. ETA: I agree with you, Chip. Actually, I vastly prefer MD to CoE. Edited July 30, 2014 by Captanne Link to comment
Luckylyn July 30, 2014 Author Share July 30, 2014 The idea foe MD was brilliant the execution was terrible. 2 Link to comment
Captanne July 30, 2014 Share July 30, 2014 I absolutely agree. It was diabolically clever. Give mankind the answers to all of its prayers -- literally. And watch them fuck it up. 1 Link to comment
Dizzy76 July 30, 2014 Share July 30, 2014 I agree that the basic idea behind MD was good and something I would have enjoyed if executed properly. Surprisingly enough though, my biggest issue with MD is the way that it totally disregarded/messed up it's own mythology and established past. I know the show has never been great with continuity but for some reason, I just can't let go the whole idea that all of a sudden, Jack's blood is the reason he can't stay dead. It just...it not only messed with Torchwood history but parts of Doctor Who lore. I mean seriously, the Doctor and Tardis wouldn't have figured out that Jack's blood was the answer? Alice Guppy and Emily Holroyd wouldn't have seen that something was up with Jack's blood when they were "testing" him over and over again? Owen wouldn't have thought to "check Jack's blood" once he found out that Jack couldn't stay dead? I mean, he was suppose to be a good doctor after all. MD just seemed to take all the Vortex Energy and Jack's "fix-pointedness" out of the equation. It makes me wonder if they were trying to get away with not explaining Doctor Who lore for all of us Americans who were going to be watching Torchwood for the first time but had no clue about anything dealing with Doctor Who and may not even be inclined to go watch later. I know that Jack talks about the Doctor when he's asking Angelo to be his companion of sorts but that's done in such a way that you don't really need to know much about Doctor Who to get what Jack is saying. I won't get into how the execution of MD further breaks Torchwood from Doctor Who in terms of how they exist within the same universe. I've read comments from people who loved MD (and think the amount of criticism it gets is unfair) that want The Family to show up on Doctor Who at some point. If that ever happened I will be totally surprised because at this point, I don't think Torchwood and Doctor Who can exists together again without once again changing what been set up now in both shows. Maybe if The Families do end up on Doctor Who we'll find out that MD happened in an alternate reality. That would explain a lot for me. Speaking of Jack's blood, if the answer really was about his blood, wouldn't that mean that his DNA would have been changed in some way and therefore Alice and Stephen would have been affected somehow? Just something I'm thinking about writing all this. Link to comment
Luckylyn July 30, 2014 Author Share July 30, 2014 I've read comments from people who loved MD (and think the amount of criticism it gets is unfair) that want The Family to show up on Doctor Who at some point. If that ever happened I will be totally surprised because at this point, I don't think Torchwood and Doctor Who can exists together again without once again changing what been set up now in both shows. I completely agree. I think Torchwood and Doctor who are pretty disconnected at this point. Link to comment
itsmeyousee July 31, 2014 Share July 31, 2014 (edited) Who or what was the "foe" in MD ? That you guys enjoyed or liked Edited July 31, 2014 by itsmeyousee Link to comment
Luckylyn July 31, 2014 Author Share July 31, 2014 I am still unclear about what the Families were after. They already controlled banking, politics, and the media. They could accomplish their goals by other means than making the whole world immortal. I know there was a dropped subplot of the Families profiting from people needing pain mediation since they will have to suffer endlessly from conditions that normally would have killed them. I don't get what the human incinerators had to do with their ultimate plan. Link to comment
itsmeyousee August 1, 2014 Share August 1, 2014 That's sorta part of why i'm completely confused by what ""Foe" you guys are referring to. To me the families are the Foe. They find the Big V, they work out how to use to accomplish what ? Don't know. We have a truly bad name for them " the Families" please it's like a z grade mafia show. The they have really bad lines like "That was Plan A, now for Plan B" Nobody understood Plan bloody A LOL. I'm sorry but they are just sooooooooooo bad and cheesy but not in a good way. Give me druggy muppets anyday LOL Link to comment
Swansong August 1, 2014 Share August 1, 2014 They aren't a well done foe. They basically have to spend the last episode explaining what the hell is supposed to be going on, but I'm pretty sure by that point too many in the audience just didn't care. I know I didn't. It's like Luckylyn said. They apparently controlled everything already so what was the point of going to such an extreme just so they could control everything. Surely after the ninety odd years they'd been working on this they could have come up with a more efficient plan. The thing that struck me about Miracle Day is just how little real sense you get of how immortality has changed the world because as the audience you rarely get to see it you mostly just hear about it. It really removed me from the story. You were supposed to be getting a sense of societies breaking under the strain, but it's mostly tell than show. Like they show the camps, but not all that much of the day to day world. And killing off Vera really affects that even more. Link to comment
itsmeyousee August 1, 2014 Share August 1, 2014 (edited) Most of Miracle Day made as much sense as the Families LOL. No idea about the everyday, no idea what the goal was, no idea why Jack didn't noticed he was being stalked for 80 years LOL. No idea about the hoarding of drugs meant, no idea why Oswald was in the show, let alone at the big ending, no idea what time period Jack was back in time to meet Whack job Angelo LOL No idea what the deal is with Jack and his blood, no idea how a mortal Jack survived being shot, no idea how Gwen could be a fugitive and still fly back and forth between the USA and the UK LOL No idea why Gwen had to kidnap Jack or why they took her Family, since all the Grand daughter did was rabbit on LOL. Surely she could used the phone for that LOL And why is Gwen still talking to a camera are we watching her home movies LOL yep that pretty much sums up MD, no bloody idea LOL Edited August 1, 2014 by itsmeyousee Link to comment
Luckylyn August 1, 2014 Author Share August 1, 2014 The thing that struck me about Miracle Day is just how little real sense you get of how immortality has changed the world because as the audience you rarely get to see it you mostly just hear about it. It really removed me from the story. You were supposed to be getting a sense of societies breaking under the strain, but it's mostly tell than show. Like they show the camps, but not all that much of the day to day world. And killing off Vera really affects that even more. That's my big issue with MD. We don't get to see the strain immortality is putting on society. We needed to see the effect of epidemics caused by people continuing to live from contagious diseases that should have killed them. Vera gave us a glimpse of that but that's dropped so she can senselessly be killed. That scene where Vera realizes the way triage is run will have to change because people won't die is a good moment, and we should have gotten more moments like that where the way people do things have to change to adjust to immortality. We should see food shortages and space issues. MD took place over a period of months and so time could have been taken to show society beginning to fall apart. They waste so much screen time with Oswald but don't bother with the essential world building needed to help the story make sense. I am so annoyed that Vera and Esther who I think had long term potential were killed off while obnoxious Rex gets immortality. Link to comment
John Potts August 1, 2014 Share August 1, 2014 I never really got what the Families were trying to achieve and more pertinently, how. Even if you can live to 100 (or even 1000) that doesn't give you the ability to rule the world - after all, there are any number of "Secret" Societies that are older than that and (probably) aren't running the world (the Freemasons, the KKK and if you believe they still exist, the Knights Templar, for example, who at least have the timescale to have put some elaborate masterplan into practice) And if you do have that much influence, how the hell did it happen without the CIA even hearing of them? I'm not saying that the CIA/MI6/Torchwood would necessarily be able to always thwart the Family's Evil Plan, but they'd at least be aware of some organisation trying to rule everything (or so you'd hope). Link to comment
itsmeyousee August 2, 2014 Share August 2, 2014 Hi John And good point, i didn't get how Jack didn't know he was being stalked for over 80 years. But yes other organisations would know of the "Families" that their job really . I know they aren't supposed to exist but lots of people hide and the money comes from somewhere , so you could trace them. Link to comment
Luckylyn August 2, 2014 Author Share August 2, 2014 So Angelo knew about the Families plan enough to have the remnants of Torchwood searched for tech that would help him be immune to immortality but he didn't bother to warn Jack. Why exactly? Link to comment
Captanne August 3, 2014 Share August 3, 2014 Because Angelo was fundamentally insane? Even though his name is "Angel" and he's for all intents and purposes "Judas" in the Christ allegory, he is certifiable to boot. Honestly, I found MD watchable (in other words, I didn't hate it) but I can't for the life of me figure out how the Families were involved with the Miracle. My understanding is that they discovered it through the discovery of The Giant Vagina but they didn't, themselves, grant the Gift. The Giant Vagina did in a terribly misguided attempt to get mankind to bugger off -- "Please leave me alone; here, I'll give you a lollipop. Now please go away." The Families were simply cashing in on the ensuing catastrophe. But, now through our discussion, I get the impression that the Families were a part of the gifting process? I don't know how I missed that. Link to comment
Luckylyn August 3, 2014 Author Share August 3, 2014 (edited) @Captanne The Families inserted Jack's blood into the Giant Vagina which caused the worldwide immortality. Since the Giant Vagina is mimicking what happens to Jack in all humanity why doesn't the world also have Jack's healing ability? Meanwhile Rex's gets Jack's healing ability. The worldwide immortality doesn't work like Jack's at all which makes the fact that it's supposed to come from him confusing to me. Why does Rex get it while the world does not? Edited August 3, 2014 by Luckylyn 1 Link to comment
Swansong August 3, 2014 Share August 3, 2014 I get the impression that the Families were a part of the gifting process? I don't know how I missed that. Pretty much yes. As far as I can make out The Families plan was to make the world immortal so they could destabilize and destroy the world and then rebuild to their own liking and control everything and they realised they could do this by pouring Jack's blood into the great vagina. So, at least as we see on the show, they stole Jack's blood back in the late 1920s while he was being tortured (why they didn't just steal Jack and experiment on him I don't know since it's not as if they were above cruelty and murder) and because Jack's blood is so special (except not) in 2011 they were able to carry out their plan. Link to comment
indeed August 3, 2014 Share August 3, 2014 Dumb de dumb dumb... Seriously, they had 10 episodes to sell this thing and they couldn't pull it together to make sense. And we were supposed to want to hang in there for a Plan B?! I'll take retcon instead, thanks. 3 Link to comment
Swansong August 3, 2014 Share August 3, 2014 They spent over 90 years coming up with Plan A so I don't even want to imagine what Plan b was going to be like. 1 Link to comment
Captanne August 3, 2014 Share August 3, 2014 (edited) For the love of God, we're the audience members who are supposed to care whether or not we understand the damned plot line and it's unclear?! Imagine what the new viewer must have taken away from the series. At least all CoE was was a hot mess of character assassination -- new viewers may not know they are seeing Pod People of the original characters and were, if nothing else, offered a coherent if stunningly stupid storyline. Edited August 3, 2014 by Captanne Link to comment
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