[S01.E14: Josh Is Going To Hawaii!]

I think the writing is so good on this show. I watched this episode last night and was chuckling to myself all day about White Josh telling Darryl that meeting someone's coworkers wasn't a step in anyone's relationship.

I also loved Darryl's Huey Lewis-inspired bi song and how it dismissed all the dumb stereotypes about bi people. And also that none of his coworkers gave a rat's ass. Poor Darryl. He's a little like Jerry (or whatever his name finally wound up being) on Parks & Rec.

[S20.E10: The Women Tell All]

I don't care how much Jubilee has been through, it's impossible to come off well when repeatedly referring to yourself as "complex", "deep", and the other compliments Jubilee has given herself. Like many adjectives, those are only meaningful when others say them about you.

 

This, precisely.

 

Regarding Olivia, even though I loathed her, I felt horrible for her when she was in the hot seat. The WTA episode once again reminded me why I'm equal parts fascinated and horrified by this show. No matter how much people say "Oh I have no pity, they know what they're getting into," I think the contestants absolutely DO NOT know. They think they do, but all they see is the heavily edited episodes from the comfort of their living rooms. Most of them have no idea how they will be manipulated, derided, humiliated, and/or edited to look good or bad depending on the season’s narrative. I also think they generally have no idea how much abuse they’ll take on social media if they get a bad edit. Of course, the fact still remains that if you act like a jerk, that’s on you. But I also think that being in this situation (albeit willingly) does a number on your psyche and contestants often act out in really weird, out-of-character ways. I’m sure Olivia is being flamed and trolled in every possible way on social media, and no one deserves that. Well, maybe Hitler or Trump.

 

Also wanted to weigh in on the whole concept of crocodile tears, specifically regarding Olivia and Caila. This happens every season. Some contestant cries, then a bunch of folks say how “fake” it was. That's totally their right and to be expected given the phony nature of the show. I’m just not a grassy knoller. I tend to believe that when people cry or say they’re upset, that they really are upset. Do people on reality TV shows sometimes fake emotions? Of course. But I think faking emotion is actually a lot harder than people think. Your average reality contestant isn’t Meryl Streep. If Olivia says the last few months have been rough and that she’s struggled, who am I to question that? Knowing what I know about the way women of any kind of notoriety are treated on social media, I’m sure it’s been brutal. If Caila says she had her heartbroken and is still reeling from it, I believe her. YMMV, of course.

[S01.E13: Josh And I Go To Los Angeles!]

I was kind of shocked by my experiences, since they did seem to align with stereotypes, and since the people involved otherwise seemed so independent, liberal and progressive, but still, they were my experiences. That all my experiences with Rebecca types (male and female) matching her education and background conformed to that particular stereotype was extremely surprising, especially given that non-Jews of the same age and educational backgrounds didn't have those same anxieties (other than those from other ethnic and religious minorities favouring early marriage within those cultures or religions), but those were my experiences, and, frankly, your selective single anecdote about your sister doesn't invalidate my experiences as I have described them. They are what they are.

 

Okay, this is the last I'm going to say on this topic (promise, mods), because clearly I'm not yet persuasive enough to write that book, "Dismantling Dangerous Stereotypes Through Logic." I never said your experiences weren't valid. I said that you have to be careful about stereotyping an entire culture (one that you admitted to being largely ignorant of) based on a few experiences you had with some folks from that culture, and how you interpreted those experiences. The anecdote about my sister is just an example - but one of thousands. I can't change your mind but I can at least offer the perspective of someone raised within the culture. 

 

All of which is to say, bringing things back on topic, that there may be many things about this show that are narratively specious, but Rebecca not being obsessed about marrying within the tribe at a young age is not one of them. 

[S01.E13: Josh And I Go To Los Angeles!]

I should have clarified that for a show that wears its American Jewish identity on its sleeve, Rebecca's attitudes and experiences don't seem to align with other people I knew that fit her profile (late 20s, highly-educated at the best schools, liberal, and Jewish). She's not concerned about dating (or marrying) a Jewish guy. She's unconcerned with still being unmarried in her late 20s. She's planning Josh as her life partner and cooing about mixed race babies but not at all worried about the fact that he's not Jewish. It seems strange that a show that touches on Jewish experiences so clearly doesn't seem to reflect the relationship attitudes of the Jewish students I knew, so similar to Rebecca in terms of background, who considered dating/marrying within the faith as soon as possible something that was completely non-negotiable, and the alternative (marrying later, not marrying, or marrying a non-Jew) completely unthinkable, no matter how liberal and progressive they were. That was the point I was trying to make.

It seems more than strange that someone so self-loathing and so prone to anxiety about her life and her choices, while simultaneously taking pride in her Jewish identity, is so anxiety-free about being unmarried at her age, being unpartnered with a Jew, and unconflicted about planning marital bliss with a non-Jew. Frankly, given my recollections of Rebecca-like students from grad school--proud, liberal, progressive Jews in their late 20s--it seems ludicrous. Rebecca's a depressive, self-hating basket case in every other respect but completely unconflicted about her relationship situation and romantic plans?

 

Here's the thing though: these are stereotypes that are based on a few people you knew. Are there Jewish women who are status and marriage obsessed? Sure, There are also many, many who aren't. Just like there are Christian and Muslim women who are and are not like Rebecca. Some human beings care about status, money, and "marrying well" (whatever that means). Some don't. Just as an example, my sister is basically Rebecca. She was the valedictorian at her high school, total type A achiever, now a successful lawyer, and at 30-years-old is completely unconcerned about marriage and is dating a non-Jewish French guy. What I'm saying is we have to be careful about stereotyping groups of people we're relatively unfamiliar with based on a few folks we know and existing cliches. I know zero harm was meant and I ain't mad about anything. :) Just felt I needed to say this. 

[S01.E13: Josh And I Go To Los Angeles!]

That being said, I genuinely don't understand what they're doing with Greg at all -- not even a little bit. 

 

 

I think the whole point of Greg is that he's a much better match for her, but she's so blinded by her Josh-colored love goggles that she can't see it. Will she ever? Who knows, but my fear is that the show won't be around long enough for us to find out. 

 

Oh my god, YES! Thank you so much! This is exactly what I felt! I mean, I really like OMWF, but I hate this kiss so much because of how wrong it feels. Not just because I hate Spuffy (well, I do, but I like to think I'm still able to feel objectively about it). Because it's clearly a bad decision and it is framed by the narrative as such. Of course, on Buffy, the narrative suddenly changed later (something I could never forgive the show for), so it left a horrible taste in my mouth. Hope nothing like that happens here, because as it is, Josh/Rebecca just shouldn't work. On different levels. Because she's a stalker, because she's mentally unhealthy, because he has very different interests and, yes, is nowhere as smart as her.

 

Hey, Spuffyite here! :) But I hear ya. I've practically gotten into arguments with my Bangel-oriented friends. I loved Spuffy because it was exciting and dangerous and oh so wrong (FYI, my Spuffy love does not include that one thing that happened - of which we will not speak. Still pissed about it). I agree that Josh and Rebecca shouldn't work. The difference for me is that Spike and Buffy, on some sick level, WERE equals. They both had super powers and were sort of like light and dark versions of each other. But Josh will never, ever be smart enough for Rebecca. His emotional intelligence is probably higher than hers but is that enough to sustain them in a healthy relationship? I think it's doubtful. I don't want to see it work out with them. 

[S01.E13: Josh And I Go To Los Angeles!]

I didn't grow up with that many Jewish kids, nor am I Jewish myself, but I remember a few eye-opening experiences at grad school (where there were many Jewish students in my program):

1. A beautiful non-Jewish female acquaintance crying her eyes out because her Jewish boyfriend had dumped her when she tried to get serious, on the basis that, well, she wasn't Jewish.

2. Jewish acquaintances warning me off dating Jewish boys, since they would never marry me.

3. A Jewish female friend watching Center Stage, with the gorgeous Eion Bailey playing a premed student, and casually stating that she was going to marry a Jewish doctor (she wound up dating a Jewish medical student a few months after that statement, and they're still together, as far as I know).

4. A Jewish female acquaintance being vocally and extremely anxious about being unmarried at 30. She wound up marrying shortly after (divorced the guy a few years later).

 

 

I know I'm the one who brought up certain cultural aspects of being raised a progressive American Jew, but I'm not sure what the suggestion is here or how it relates to Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? These are just a few random things that a few Jewish people did, as far as I can tell. 

[S20.E09: Week 9]

I really hope not. I find that practice so utterly gross and regressive that I told my now-husband that if he asked my father, I would say no. Do people in real life still do that as often as they do in TV and movies?

 

 

Oh I dunno, my husband and I are both liberal,  progressive feminists and he asked my dad. I thought it was kind of old fashioned but I wasn't clutching my pearls over it. He did it in front of me and the whole thing was kind of tongue in cheek. My dad replied in a faux formal tone, "I give you my blessing, son." It was sweet and funny. My big issue would have been if my then-fiancee expected me to take his last name. I get why people still do it, but that would have been a deal breaker for me. 

 

That's why the whole thing with the baseball jersey saying "Mrs. Higgins" rubbed me the wrong way. What an assumption!

[S01.E13: Josh And I Go To Los Angeles!]

Damn I love this show! So happy to find an active forum for it here. So many thoughts. 

 

First off, that JAP Battle was ridiculously awesome! I adored every second of it and watched it repeatedly. I'm not the type of Jew Rebecca or Audra are in that I'm not a total type A, didn't go to an Ivy league school, and didn't become a lawyer. But I did grow up with many women like that and regardless, a lot of the experiences and in jokes they mentioned are pretty universal for progressive American Jews raised with at least some degree of religion. I'm also surprised some of the cheeky lyrics weren't considered controversial! This in particular:

 

Cause we're liberals 
Duh, Progressive as hell
Though, of course, I support Israel

 

Would piss a lot of the old guard (and new guard, come to think of it) right off. 

 

I am a little bit annoyed by Paula's obsession with Rebecca and Josh. I hope she will eventually be the one to turn on the relationship and realize that Rebecca is better off with someone else.

 

 

My big question is when are both Paula AND Rebecca going to figure this out. Perhaps if there's a second season they'll get into this. Josh is obviously a sweetheart but he's wrong for Rebecca in every way. They have zero in common, other than a (brief) shared history. And she is WAY smarter, obviously. Sure, some marriages wherein the two people aren't intellectual equals survive, but I think it's fairly uncommon. 

 

Great episode. Hated the kiss though, can't stand cheating and don't care about Josh\Rebecca.

 

 

And I have knee-jerk disgust at someone cheating, which Josh was. So I'm sort of annoyed.

 

Ha, I must be a terrible person because I LOVE cheating on TV. It makes for great drama!

 

I thought it was left a little ambiguous. I do know a few big law ladies who love their lives and jobs. But I also know many that would be miserable. So I kind of like that you weren't sure about Audra but you know for sure that Rebecca knew she made the right decision.

 

 

I agree. I think Rebecca was definitely projecting, but I also think it was ambiguous as to whether or not Audra is unhappy. Maybe Audra doesn't even really know. I also don't think the show was in any way implying that Rebecca is suddenly blissfully happy because she left a high powered job and is now chasing the "man of her dreams." I think Rebecca is slowly growing to know herself better, but the central conceit of the show is that chasing Josh is a really bad idea, and deep down Rebecca knows it. The conflict within Rebecca is that she identifies as and IS a feminist, but she has a lot of inner conflict that sabotages that. She's got a long way to go to get to happy. Hero(ine)'s journey. 

[S20.E09: Week 9]

Wow, even the always diplomatic Sharleen is kinda pissed. I guess Ben really lost the audience's good will with this ep. I still maintain that he's not evil or calculating - just young, dumb, and perhaps a bit selfish. I think the whole premise of this show is just conducive to jerky behavior from the leads in the end. Very few come out smelling like a, er, rose. 

[S20.E09: Week 9]

Just when you think this show can't go any lower...sigh. That rose ceremony toast with Ben hugging both women made me cringe. I can't imagine either woman watching this now and thinking highly of him. At least Juan Pablo was honest in his douchiness.

 

 

I kept thinking maybe the three of them should just date for awhile. They all seem to get along well. I'm now imagining Ben proposing to both of them at the final rose ceremony and both of them accepting. Now *that* would be the most Dramatic. Episode. Ever. 

 

I thought Lauren's peach 'ensemble' was tacky as shit.  Looks like something that would get you auffed on Project Runway.

 

 

No one should ever wear peach. It's so grandma. 

[S20.E09: Week 9]

I'm reading this at face value and have decided that this poor dingaling really did go and fall in love with two ladies. Bless all their hearts. I think Lauren showed emotional maturity and intelligence when she shared that she thinks it's entirely possible to love two people at once. I never understood why so many people don't "believe" in that. Are our hearts really that stingy?

I like both remaining women and feel bad for whoever else gets hurt. This show is so not the way to start a healthy relationship.

I thought all the women looked really pretty. Caila and Lauren both had glowy skin, and JoJo was smokin' in that RC dress.

Most importantly: SEA TURTLES! Way to flippity flop into my heart, little guys! I actually own a turtle and they are awesome animals.

[S20.E08: Week 8]

 

Caila's dad just gave off a major creepy vibe and his worship of the Phillipino community was strange to me.

 

I don't know. I didn't think so. I know one guy (caucasian) who liked Asian women and married a Japanese woman in a very Japanese ceremony. Another guy (again, caucasian) was so attracted to black women (their skin is beautiful) that he divorced his (white) wife and married an African American. Both of those (white) men were drawn to other races. There is nothing wrong with that. People feel comfortable with what they are comfortable with. 

 

I think I might get where Canada was going with this (though I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth). Of course it's great to love and embrace other cultures and races, but sometimes people fetishize/exoticize people just because of their race (or what they perceive about their race), and that can get a little squicky. Ostensibly one falls for a person, not their melanin. It did seem to me that Caila's dad might be walking that fine line a bit, but I don't know him so I'd like to just assume he fell in love with Caila's mom as a person and then embraced all the joys of Filipino culture. 

 

Also, did Ben really say he'd never met a Filipino person before? Did they just pull him fully grown off the factory line right before Kaitlyn's season? I guess Warsaw, Indiana must just be really, really white. 

[S20.E08: Week 8]

My first post on Previously TV!  I have watched every Bachelor and Bachelorette and used to read TWOP. (Why did they shut it down? Didn't they understand how much TWOP meant to me? :-) )

 

 

I think you'll like it here, hyacinth! It's like TWoP only a lot less strict. You still have to play nice (of course), but you won't get sent to the principal's office for talking about the boards on the boards or anything silly like that. 

 

I'm very depressed about that adorable dog having passed away. RIP pup.

 

 

I know. File that under things I wish I didn't know. If I had my way no animal would ever be harmed or die. Yes I know that doesn't make sense. No I don't care. 

[S20.E08: Week 8]

I think it's that Ben is very, very slick.  He always has the right words and the right look.  He looks into each gal's eyes without blinking as if she were the only interesting focus, but for me it's like Caila's studied upbeat manner.  It's acting. and he's a very good actor. (Caila isn't.)

 

Whereas to me, he looks exhausted (physically and emotionally), overwhelmed, in over his head, and completely clueless as to how to respond to all this familial grilling. I think he's flailing because he's already chosen Lauren in his head but knows he's contractually obligated to see this through. He doesn't want to lie to all these people, but he kinda has to. It's just the nature of the show. Hell, I'm 45 and this would all make me beyond uncomfortable. I can't imagine doing it at 26. And now I'm giving a Bachelor the benefit of the doubt and I don't know what's happened to me. 

[S20.E08: Week 8]

I always love Sharleen Joynt's recaps. She manages to be smart, savvy, and funny, but never mean. I especially like her take on the Ben/Amanda situation this week. 

[S20.E08: Week 8]

I'm guessing the "other love" is Caila

 

My vote is for JoJo. I feel like Caila's hometown visit was very much edited to imply that she will get her heart broken. 

 

Also, what is with these moms (specifically Caila's and JoJo's) who seem like just slightly older girlfriends of their daughters, rather than their moms? I mean, I get it. I'm friends with my mom, too. But I just don't think that "Don't worry, you're beautiful!" or "You love him? Wow! Go jump on him and tell him!" are great pieces of advice when your kid is dating a guy on TV with 3 other girlfriends. No wonder these poor girls have such unrealistic, fairy tale views of love and romance. 

 

Ok.  Field of Floozies?  Really?  Can we stop with the misogynistic terms to describe these girls?

 

If it helps, this stuff bothers me too, Caught on Tape. I don't voice it very often because I know I'll be met with "This is what this show is made for! If you don't like it don't participate in the forums!" I guess I have this naive hope that we can all enjoy this silly, totally phony show without replicating the easy sexism that is its trademark. Dumb, I know. 

[S20.E08: Week 8]

I loved it when one of JoJo's brothers said he loved her "indefinitely." Ha.

Oh my god her family was so creepy. Her brothers almost reminded me of those fathers who make their daughters pledge that they'll stay virgins until marriage. Paternalistic and skeevy at the same time.

Lauren's family is so hilariously white.

Caila's so going to get her heart crushed.

[S20.E07: Week 7]

Has to with typography and its evolution. In the early days of typing, when all characters got the same amount of space, two space were necessary for ease of reading. Now that each character gets a different amount of space according to its actual width, they're no longer necessary. I don't know exactly when this occurred, but I don't think I was ever taught to use two spaces, and I started school... oh, some time ago. And as an editor now, I can vouch for the fact that yes, those extra spaces will be removed before anything goes to publication.

 

Yes. Grammar Girl has a great post about it. And it is now the recommendation from Chicago Manual of Style and AP. 

 

I didn't understand Ben's obsession with his glory days EIGHT years after high school. I mean I know there are guys who obsess about their days as high school football QB, starting point guard, and homecoming king, but typically they are the guys who don't go to college or go to state u, move back to the hometown and pick up whatever job is available, sit around the local diner and bar reminiscing about all the things they used to do, and end up marrying a hometown girl often a high school sweetheart or someone a few yrs younger who is totally flattered that a high school QB wants her. For Ben, he went to state u, but then moved onto a sales job in Denver -- which is a fun city and sales typically includes lots of travel which is "exciting" when you're young. And yet he's obsessing about his high school and ELEMENTARY and MIDDLE schools!? Who freaking cares??

 

Normally I would agree that this is super lame, but I'm going to chalk this up to producer-driven shenanigans. When the Bachelor or Bachelorette returns to his or her hometown, part of the (totally phony) narrative is about making that person look like some sort of local hero returning to his or her roots. It's silly, but I think the idea is to further infect viewers with the notion that the star is a "Catch" with a capital "C."

[S20.E07: Week 7]

Definition of LITERALLY

1 :  in a literal sense or manner :  actually <took the remark literally> <was literally insane>


2 :  in effect :  virtually <will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice — Norman Cousins>

 

I know we've veered dangerously off topic here, but please you guys, listen to The Oatmeal on this one. For the love of god. Some things need to remain sacred.

 

Back on topic, I would LOVE to see this franchise choose folks who were even a little older and truly looking for a partner or spouse and not just fun vacations and fleeting TV fame. Because y'all are right: early 20s is just WAY too early to get married for most. But who are we kidding? This has always been a false fairy tale. It's amazing any couple has lasted. It says a lot that Bachelor in Paradise now has a better track record for marriages so far than The Bachelor/Bachelorette does!

[S20.E06: Week 6]

That's an interesting take on it. I've been so assuming that Lauren B was extremely interested that it didn't occur to me that maybe she isn't just being guarded, maybe she's really not feeling it.

 

My take on it is that Lauren B. feels like she has this in the bag, and thus displays the confidence that goes along with it. 

[S02.E12: Physician, Heal Thy Selfie]

Liv saw that her meal of the week bought the new version of utopium (which Clive's snitch told them about earlier) from Scott E. at a club. Liv knows that Scott E. works for Blaine so she realized that Blaine is the new mystery guy in town who is trying to take over Mr. Boss's business.

 

Thank you! I knew I'd missed something big. 

 

Forgot to add that one of my pathetic, slashy hopes is that Liv eats a brain that makes her want to get with Blaine. I know. I'm sick. 

[S02.E12: Physician, Heal Thy Selfie]

Peyton and Blaine are not done, mark my words. After she told him off in front of Liv and then turned away, the camera very deliberately showed a look of...something pass over her face. It was subtle, but I definitely got the feeling that she was acting more disgusted and over it than she actually was. 

 

Can someone please explain the very end to me, when Liv got a flash of a memory of Scott E. doing something nefarious? Was that from the social media maven's brain? Also, I rewound a couple of times but couldn't hear what Live internally monologued directly after. Anyone?

[S20.E06: Week 6]

However, I loved the pig date and would have loved to swim with the pigs, so my opinions may not be the norm.

 

 

/Start rant  Hear, hear! I was all about the pigs! I loved them and would have loved every second of that date. Although the minute I saw them, I knew at least one hamster would make some tired-ass bacon comment. Also: pigs are not dirty and they are highly intelligent (they're even known to outperform 3-year-old humans in cognitive tests). 

 

Every season we see women freaking out about some wild creature. It annoys the ever living shit out of me. None of my female friends would act like that. Do they think men find that attractive? Ugh. /end rant

 

In other news, I hate that this show makes me such a jerk, because I enjoyed every second of Olivia's totally telegraphed downfall. I was grinning from ear to ear. You know how you don't make someone fall in love with you? By continually telling them how awesome you are. If you have to say it, it ain't true. It's such a turnoff, and paradoxically reeks of insecurity. Good riddance, Olivia.

[S20.E05: Week 5]

It's usually used in a weirdly sexual way, by people who find such a profile attractive.

 

 

Wait, what? I...don't think this is a thing. Unless I'm REALLY out of the loop. 

 

As per usual, I'm the producers' bitch, because they sure do have me hating Olivia. I'm not even enjoying the drama - I just want her gone. Although I *almost* felt bad for her when Emily said she had bad breath. How embarrassing! 

[S20.E04: Week 4]

  I posted after the first episode that I didn't think Lauren B was that attractive. I know it sounds catty and mean but I think when you sign up for these kind of shows you are putting yourself up there for critiques.

 

I've been trying this season to avoid face/body snark and only mention a contestant's looks if I have something nice to say, but I admit it's hard. I'm attempting to undo 45 years of conditioning! So many of the women who appear in this franchise are not my cup of tea lookswise, but there have been some notable exceptions. I thought Andi was stunning on Juan Pablo's season, but her beauty faded for me during her season as I started to like her less and less. I still think Sharleen is gorgeous and a total class act. Ashley I. is so naturally pretty she could probably have any guy she wanted, if she'd just grow up and get out of her own damn way. No one this season is sticking out to me just yet as a classic beauty, but maybe they will as time goes on and I see more of them. I think Jubilee is really pretty and she intrigues me, but the pouting is a turnoff.