Schweedie

But she only decided to not use them because Keeley was determined to find out who took them and who hired that person, and Rebecca realised they could be traced back to her if she didn't just stop it from running. Early season 1 Rebecca really wasn't a good person - or she was, deep down, but she certainly didn't behave like one.

Well, I mean, can't actually say I feel particularly *bad* for Nate as such, because season 2 Nate is for the most part just a dick, heh. But I don't think he's beyond redemption, because I still don't think any of the things he's done are that much worse than what Rebecca did. Most people seem to agree that Rebecca earned her redemption because she realised she was wrong, regretted it, and sincerely apologised (to Ted and Higgins, at least - I'm still a bit salty about Jamie and the team). Her arc was a straight, one season arc, because it was a simple one - the villain who slowly warmed up and realised the error of her ways. If Nate's journey in season 3 is him realising he was in the wrong, showing remorse and trying to make it right, then I'm all for that. The show made Jamie my favourite character even after how awful he was in the beginning, I have faith that they can make me like Nate again if that's what they want to do.

It's interesting, because for me this is exactly what makes what she did - not worse, because what Nate has been doing is really shitty, but at least equally bad. She hurt people who had done absolutely nothing and she knew that they were innocent, she just didn't care. Like you say, they were just collateral damage. But to me that doesn't make it better in the least. She was lucky to have friends who helped her find her way back to herself, but I'm not sure Nate has that. He had Ted, yes, but his whole season 2 journey was about feeling abandoned by Ted. Which is unfair, because Ted has had a lot going on, but Nate was so in his head that he had no idea about that and once he found out he was too far gone to realise what it meant. Just as season one Rebecca wasn't 'real' Rebecca, I'm hoping season 2 Nate isn't the 'real' Nate. I want the sweet Nate who hugged Roy for telling the team to back off of him, who was so happy when the team won that he literally leaped into Ted's arms, who showed up for the gala in a way too big suit and wasn't embarrassed about fixing it, to be the real Nate. I remember when Ted asked him if he was the kind of person who would want someone to tell him if he had a piece of food in his teeth and he was like, "God yes, absolutely" and he meant it. Telling current Nate that would be a no-win situation - he'd hate you for embarrassing him by telling him, but he'd hate you just as much if you hadn't pointed it out because that would obviously mean you wanted to let him embarrass himself in front of everyone else. Somehow he got *more* insecure when he moved upwards. Agreed! ...I did not realise I had this many thoughts and feelings about Nate, heh.

Interesting and fair answers, thanks, guys! @MicheleinPhilly, I gotta reference the bolded part, though - to be fair, taking things out on people who'd done nothing to deserve is literally exactly what Rebecca did, heh. ETA - (I think the reason why I still hold a tiny grudge from last season is that she never actually apologised to the *team*. She apologised to Ted for hiring him to fail and he forgave her, but her actions had consequences for other people, too.) I hear you on their progression being different, though, and I think that's probably a key point in why people's reactions to Nate are so strong. Rebecca started at the bottom and the only way was up, and where she ended up was being brilliant, but with Nate we actually get to see the downward trajectory which makes it worse.

I mean, yes, she's shown growth, which is why we forgave her - why is it impossible that Nate shows growth and regret next season? Some of the things Rebecca did to tank the team were quite terrible, to be honest. Trying to get Keeley and Ted in trouble with the tabloids, getting Jamie sent away making him think he was unwanted, probably causing the team to go down. Even after the vulnerable moments she had with her friends and Ted in the episode where they beat Everton she was still happy to release unsold tickets for the last match of the season to Man City, even though that would hurt their chances of staying up just because "that would kill Rupert". I guess I don't understand why the things Nate has said/done are unforgivable while the things Rebecca did aren't. She was practically the villain for part of last season, even while being awesome - we gave Rebecca space to grow and come to terms with her being wrong, why not Nate?

For those of you who feel Nate can't/shouldn't be redeemed/forgiven, I'm curious - how do you guys feel about Rebecca, in comparison? Do you feel her redemption after what she did throughout the first season was earned? I mean, she tried to ruin the lives of *other people* in order to in turn hurt Rupert. (I've realised I still hold a little bit of a grudge even though I love her, heh.)

I was watching Dune and a character spoke, and I was like, "Hold up, I recognise that voice. Is that...?" Did an IMDB check afterwards and sure enough, it was the guy who played Darren, the very large man chasing Beard in 'Beard After Hours'. Way to make an impression, guy! :D

That reminds me, I don't think we ever found out what the spokesperson gig was or if Nate actually ended up doing it - I was curious about that!

Agree, Nate's ire definitely escalated when Roy came along. If Ted's the father whose approval he wants, Roy is the cool, gifted older sibling who outshines him and steals the attention - as soon as Roy walks onto the pitch with them at the end of ep 5 you can see how displeased he is. (I enjoyed the contrast between Roy looking super sharp in his black suit next to Nate looking awkward with his big puffy jacket over his own suit that he was so proud of.) We know he must have a sibling since he has a niece, so maybe that's a similar situation with his family, too. Did we ever see Ted comment on Nate being the one who won them the match against Tottenham (as unlikely as I still find that whole thing)? Because even though Roy compliments him on it, I'm guessing that's not as valuable to him as Ted's praise would've been. If there's a show I would trust to pull off a good redemption arc, it's this one. But yeah, I'd also like to see Ted be able to express anger. Besides the time where he yelled at Nate last season for breaking curfew at the hotel, which he immediately apologised for the next day since it didn't actually have anything to do with Nate, I find it interesting that the only time we've seen him actually upset with someone because of something they did was when Rebecca had let Man City recall Jamie. ETA - oh, and of course that time when Jamie claimed he was hurt and couldn't train with them.

I gotta say, "F*ck you, Piers Morgan" is right up there with the very best lines so far.

I really wish we knew how old Nate is supposed to be, but I definitely don't think he's supposed to be the same age as Nick Mohammed - Nate's parents celebrated their 35th wedding anniversary this season, and they don't strike me as an out-of-wedlock kind of couple, heh. He read as early-to-mid 20s to me in the first season, and they kept calling him stuff like 'good kid' and 'young man', so until we're outright told differently I'm sticking to that, grey hair or not. I think it's easy to be harder on Nate than on, say, Jamie or Rebecca, because those two started at the bottom and grew. Like, let's remember that Rebecca spent most of last season literally trying to screw Ted and the whole team over, and we love her. She had Jamie sent away right when he was going to start working for the team, which is likely a large part of why they ended up in the relegation zone. And Jamie, I mean, he was an absolute dick. They both came from a place of hurt, but they grew. And Nate's had a different trajectory, but I think he's in same place of hurt that they were, and he's so in his head feeling abandoned (given that this week was the first time all season that we saw Ted and Nate interact on their own, I can see where that's coming from) that he doesn't realise he's seeing slights where they're not intended. He probably could've used a few sessions with Sharon more than anyone (except maybe Ted). ...Huh. I've genuinely hated Nate all season, but apparently this episode somehow made the whole storyline work for me. I fully intend to badger the AppleTV twitter account for a gag reel, all year long! I want (need) to see a bunch of wasted footage of Brett and Phil just losing it at each other. I want to see how long it took to shoot "ugleh, ugleh boy". Same. I was so relieved when he said "Next season should be fun, right?"

It was while Ted was getting ready for the funeral - the picture was right next to Henry's, which is saying something. Looking back we really haven't seen much genuine interaction between the two of them this season. Ted has had other stuff on his mind and his own issues to work on and figured Nate was ready to fly by himself, but I think he really underestimated what an insecure mess Nate really is underneath it all. Obviously that's no justification for what Nate has done, but I'm actually really liking the shades of grey here (pun on Nate's hair not intended, heh) and I'm looking forward to seeing next season play out. Also, on a different note - Rupert, for all his declarations of how important Richmond is to him, goes and buys a different club. And not just any club but a local, rival London club. A genuine supporter who actually loved *his* club would never, which is just one more reason to despise him.

That was actually a much happier ending to the season than I was expecting! I really through everything BUT the promotion would end in a mess, but for the most part people are okay except for Nate. Possible insecurities for Roy and Keeley and I feel like we're probably gonna see them breaking up at some point, but I *think* they'll be okay in the end. I hope so, at least. Loved Sam realising that his place is with Richmond for now, and that he can do good things there. Loved Rebecca supporting Keeley. Loved Jamie and Roy celebrating after the headbutt. Loved Ted using the situation to start a conversation about mental health in sports. And I loved the scene with Nate and Ted, Nick Mohammed did a great job there. Nate really is a child - grey hair or not, I still think he's an emotionally immature 20-something who's dealing with a whole lot of pent-up feelings. I hope the picture of their celebration that Ted keeps at home comes up again next season and plays a part in getting through to Nate. Weirdly I have more faith that they'll pull off a redemption arc after seeing this episode, showing how his anger comes from hurt, than I did before. But ripping up the BELIEVE sign was bloody harsh. Also, they're definitely setting up Richmond to win something big next season, what with the "They're still a club who's never won a major trophy" - I'm not sure I can see them actually winning the Premier League, but I think maybe they'll get revenge in the FA cup.

So, this has been announced, and I feel like it's sort of a spoiler for what happens to Richmond in the finale, but I don't know, maybe they're just tricking us into thinking so. Either way, football next season will in all likelihood look more like the real deal and I'm very very excited about this!

I love Jane's line about her friend Finn - "He's like a Rembrandt. Beautiful to look at, but so dim." Wish I could sneak that into a conversation, heh! Also, rewatching season one I noticed something that made me laugh out loud. In episode ten, how when they're watching that interview with Jamie for motivation and he ends with saying how instant karma is gonna get you? He doesn't actually say 'karma', he says 'caramel'. "Instant caramel, it's gonna get ya." (Maybe everyone else already knew that, but I think his accent made me miss it - even the subtitles say karma.) Oh, Jamie. You're like a Rembrandt.

Just a note - we don't really have "trades" in European football the way I've gathered you do in American sports. At least as far as I know you can't just sell a player's contract without their consent. What you can do is keep a player out of the team and say "unless you agree to sign a contract and move to a different club you won't be playing for the foreseeable future", but forcing someone to go somewhere isn't really a thing. Again, Rebecca is completely entitled not to let Sam leave, romance aside. There doesn't need to be any revenge involved at all. As nice as it would be to let the player decide, that's not how it works. Clubs can't force a player to go somewhere else, but neither can a player expect his club to just let him go where he wants when he wants. ETA - it seems like there's the general sentiment that if Sam wants to leave he should automatically get to do so and Rebecca would be a villain not to let him, so I just wanted to make it clear that it's really not as clear cut as that, heh. /someone who's been through a lot of stressful transfer windows

Yeah, I feel like this is worth pointing out again - Rebecca, as the club's owner, is under no obligation whatsoever to let what Sam wants decide. Sure, players can express a wish to leave - sometimes that's what ends up happening and sometimes it isn't, I've seen both - but those in charge have to do what they feel is the right move for *the club*, not for the player. Sam is clearly a very important player to Richmond at this point, and although you could argue that the money they'd get for him could enable them to invest in other players, they're already on the verge of promotion back to the Premier League which would also generate more money for them. No club wants to sell one of their best, especially not when they're such a positive locker room influence, too. Rebecca, Higgins, Ted, etc - they shouldn't be letting Sam make this decision. That's their job.

This. I thought the way she reacted and the version of it that she told Roy, incorrect as it was since Nate actually DID kiss her, was very realistic. Keeley is fierce and awesome and fearless, but she's still a woman who's long been judged on her looks and been conditioned to react a certain way to advances like that. And clapping his hands to encourage the rest when they lined up. He sure has come a long way from the brat who wouldn't put his hand in with the rest of the team before the match last season.

This is what I'm leaning towards. I don't really see them ending on a depressing note football-wise a second time; that's just repetitive and I don't think the show wants to be that. (At least I very much hope that's the case, because seriously, supporting my real life club is stressful enough - I don't need the added stress worrying about a bloody *fictional* club, too!) Making it back to the Premier League but everything else being in shambles would set the third season up nicely. Please, please, just let them be promoted.

I think she mentioned the Nate thing to sort of test the waters and see how he'd react. Obviously there's a big difference between that and Jamie's declaration, but it was like a starting point for being honest.

Well. Didn't love that and don't really have all that much to say about it, which makes me sad. I did love the callback of the "Congratulations, you both just met a cool person" line from the billionaire guy - that's exactly what Ted said when he introduced Trent and Ollie to one another in the restaurant way back in 1x03. And I loved the dance routine. They were really giving it their all! I kept rewinding and focussing on a different person throughout, heh - Jan Maas was killing it in the background. I really wish we could spend more time with the team, because I live for those himbos.

I mean, technically he ended up coming back to Richmond *because* he left City to get away from his dad, and maybe Keeley's influence on him had something to do with that, too. I'm willing to cut the writers slack on that one, because I can see how he means it. ETA - And consciously or subconsciously, for me I think Richmond was always at the back of his mind when he left City to begin with. It was probably the first place where he felt things could be different, that *he* could be different. (And I'm not sure he just meant coming back to Richmond the football club when he says that to Keeley, I think he meant in general. He didn't come back and go straight to Ted to ask to come back and play - he came back and went to her, saying "I don't know what I'm doing and I wanted to talk to someone about it, and when I think of talking I think of you".)

I think it's a case of not realising what you had until it goes away. For the most part season 1 Jamie was an immature little jerk, but already in episode six, after they're broken up, he still seeks her out to talk and she's the one who gets him to go to the 'sacrifice ceremony'. Considering their other interactions later that season (him coming to thank her for teaching him not to get in his own way, etc), after the growing up he's done this season I'm not at all surprised that he's looking back at their relationship through a different lens. What I don't see is the reason why Keeley would still have feelings for him. Unless she also has a thing for wounded birds, which, well... Understandable.

This. While I really enjoyed this episode, it feels to me like there was an episode missing between episode 8 and this - which makes me more annoyed that they actually had the opportunity to *make* that bridge episode when Apple asked for extra, but instead went with the Beard standalone. From what Keeley said it seems like it's been about two weeks since then, and I really feel like we should've seen the aftermath. It's a weird moment to leave without any follow-up, given how heavy that ending was, and it doesn't make sense with Ted and Sharon for me, either - have they really waited two weeks to have that important session after he called her and told her about his dad? If we don't get get some form of moment with Roy and Jamie acknowledging what happened I'm going to be really disappointed. Or Ted and Jamie.

I mean, it is entirely possible that he has paparazzi friends who spotted Sam and Rebecca on their date, followed up and caught some stuff, and came to Rupert about it rather than break the story.