WhiteStumbler

So Greyscale Barbie was an attack, but where was it launched from? Dorne, yes, but was it authorized by the ruling House in Dorne (Tyrell), or did the attack come from further away and sort of pass thru on the way to Shireen? If Viserys and Dany had been surrounded by a Targaryen court / power base in Pentos (instead of just couch-surfing with Illyrio), then I might have suspected one of them striking at the family of the Ursurper. What other odd assassination weapons besides Greyscale Barbie (ETA and NECKLACE) have we seen? Knifey, smokey, zomboni, warg-eagle, dragon fire (it was going to happen), moon-door (ditto), creepy green scorpion bug in a toy, what else?

janjan: STOP! *WhiteStumbler plugs ears, whimpers*

Who I miss the most: We have lost like 60 characters over 4+ seasons -- so many to choose from! Renly would have been a great King in a time of peace, but given the current shitstorm in the 7K and the developing shitstorm North of the Wall, I don't think he would have been able to hack it. He would have been another Orys I... Tywin: Orys I was just. Everyone applauded his reforms, nobles and commoners alike, but he wasn't just for long. He was murdered in his sleep after less than a year by his own brother. Was that truly just of him? To abandon his subjects to an evil that he was too gullible to recognize? As Jaime said, Renly "Wasn't fit to rule over anything more important than a 12-course meal." Top 10 Characters I Miss (no order): Syrio Forel (sorry, I think he is dead), Maester Luwin, Khal Drogo, Eddard Stark, Renly B. (ETA - I miss him, just don't think he was the right King for these times), Catelyn Stark, Ld Cmdr Mormont, Robb Stark, The Hound (sorry, I think he is dead also), Tywin Lannister.

Moving Characters I Miss to the Completely Unspoiled Speculation thread...

gingerella: Opening up a can of worms there, aren't you ;-) Look up "Primogeniture" on wikipedia and prepare to be confused. I don't recall if anyone has stated what exactly the line of succession is since Renly laid it out back in S1 when he stated "I'm fourth in line" (behind Joffrey, Tommen, and Stannis). Stannis is still alive, so I will guess Stannis?!? Hahahahaha! Cersei undermining her son to deliver the Iron Throne to Stannis seems insane.

Another thing (along with JS's parents) that is suddenly everywhere this season? Greyscale and the "Stone Men". I don't recall that it was even mentioned what had scarred Shireen's face in prior seasons, let alone that there are colonies of Stone Men near Valaria. ETA: And I was interested to hear that the doll that infected Shireen with greyscale came from Dorne. I can understand the bad blood between the Lannisters and the Martells, but why would the Martells try to kill / maim a Baratheon princess?

Is there an A&OL / Theon parallel? Ramsay: Tonight, we are taking care of Theon. And just for him we'll have something special. I plan on using the Dreadfort method. Dr. Einstein: No, Ramsay! Not the Dreadfort method, please! Two hours...

Thanks, sugarbaker design, but do you know why the inconsistency? Why were Catherine and Mary allowed to be together once (when meeting Crumb), but not later when Catherine was dying?

Fascinating conversation guys -- thanks! Another person who might know something about He Who Knows Nuthin'? Maester Aemon. RE: Mel's magic -- so I think she needs 'King's blood" to make a Smokey or to do the leach trick. For context , here is more of their dialogue at the beach as Mel was leaving to buy Gendry from BwoB... Stannis: My enemies think they've destroyed me. They're laughing at me the way Renly laughed at me. I want Joffrey dead. I want Robb Stark dead. Make me another “son”. Melisandre: I cannot. Stannis: Why? Mel: You don't have the strength. It would kill you. Stannis: I'm not so easily killed. Men have been trying for years. (S grabs M, whispers in her ear) I want you. Mel: (Pushes Stannis back to arms length) Your fires burn low, my king. There is another way. A better way. Stannis: You told me your magic requires a king's blood. Mel: Yes. Stannis: I'm the one true king. Mel: You are. But there are others with your blood in their veins. You will sit on the Iron Throne, but first there must be sacrifices. The Lord of Light demands it. She may be able to do other things w/o "King" brand blood, but Smokey and the Leaches seems to require it.

proserpina65: Bawlmer, Merlin hon! Several posters mentioned the 'white roses' scene and I had forgotten how much that affected my more favorable opinion of Catherine at the end of this episode. Yes, the King loved Catherine once, but the story also shows that she used a physical symbol of that love to give to others as a token of her affection and thanks. I am also a bit confused about something regarding the Catherine / Mary relationship. It was Mary who was next to Catherine when Mary was unable to stand in a previous episode, correct? So if mother and daughter had been allowed to be together once before, why were Henry and Anne determined to keep them apart at the end of Catherine's life?

The first step is admitting it. Good luck!

Always remember -- double-N in the last word there. Thanks! ;-)

Stannis: You told me your magic requires a king's blood. Mel: Yes. (S3E03: Walk of Punishment) as Mel was leaving by boat to find Gendry.

I'm not sure of the "significance" per se, but in S1E01 Robert goes to the crypts to pay his respects to Lyanna, and he lays a feather in the hand of her statue before offering the job of Hand to Ned. When Sansa found it I was amazed that, after all the death and horror and the burning of Winterfell, it has still remained there. It makes me think of a line by Blackfish: "It often comforts me to think that even in war's darkest days, in most places in the world absolutely nothing is happening." The air has barely been disturbed in this spot underneath a central location. It would be like Pod discovering a sword with a Lannister Lion hilt in some river near the Kingsroad, and me remembering that Arya took a sword from Joffrey and threw it in the water all the way back in S1. Just a nice callback to the events that started this roller-coaster.

I don't know if it was in the books, it has been a while since I read them. Does anyone know if the series is going to cover all the books to the end of BUtB? Seems like a lot of ground to cover in just one more episode.

ginger: I think it is a reference to the harpy that used to be atop the pyramid, before Dany smote her ruin to the pyramid side. I rewatched last night and I was sooooooo glad I skip the "previously on" clips -- my shock and joy at seeing Sansa find the feather in the crypt would not have been the same if I had seen it foreshadowed. Before Stannis rose even higher (in my estimation), Shireen was playing around with what looked like a rock on her father's desk, and I couldn't get a good look at it but damn I hope it was dragonglass! Why isn't Sam telling anyone who will listen about the magic powers of dragonglass? 'You want, no you need to have this stuff with you at all times! Reduces kitchen drudgery, removes stains and embarrassing age spots, one size fits all, no muss, no spills, it picks up your kids after their lessons with the maester, it gets rid of your gambling debts, it's a friend, it's a companion, it's the only product you will ever need, follow these easy assembly instructions.' Come on Tarley!

Something is bugging me today re: LF's "plan" -- If he ultimately wants to ally with Stannis and have Sansa as Wadreness of the North, and he knows that Stannis & Co. are garrisoning at Castle Black, and he knows that the Boltons are universally reviled in the North, then why not cut the Dr. Evil levels of plot complexity and just go to Stannis and offer a straight exchange? In return for recognizing Sansa as Wardeness of the North and Lady of Winterfell, Stannis would get the support of the old school "Starks of Winterfell are my liege" surviving Northern lords. Another thing I was noodling on was inspired by LFs line "The last time the Lords of the Eyrie formed an alliance with the Lords of the North, they brought down the greatest dynasty this world has ever known." I was thinking that they also had the Lords of the Riverlands on their side, and that a lot of the Lords of the North were ripped to pieces at the Red Wedding. So of the kingdoms of Westeros, the only large remaining armies that haven't suffered significant losses in the War of the Five Kings are Dorne, The Eyrie, and the army that the Karstarks took home with them after Robb executed their Lord. As Stannis moves south, the only remaining large force in the North capable of offering stout resistance to the WWs is going to be the Karstarks. I wonder how the Karstarks are going to feel about Sansa Stark, sister to the man who beheaded their Lord, emerging to claim the Wardeness of the North title?

Loved this episode, but I expected to love it -- at this point I am hooked, and my true disappointment is that there are soon (too soon!) to be no more new episodes. The cinematography seems to be returning to slightly more somber, candlelit scenes, but at least two of them were made brighter by the presence of Chapuys and his wonderful hats. I thought that Gregory looked very cool in his armor before his first joust (fun fact: I grew up in a state where jousting is the state sport), and Cromwell's parental concern was touching and his advice seemed sound. Did everyone catch the actions of Cromwell when he is told 'the king is dead'? He has an opportunity to flee with his family, but instead pushed a dagger in his sleeve and soldiers on. I wish there was more Stephen Gardiner, but I loved the return of Wolsey, however briefly, drawing the explicit connection between Wolsey's position then and Cromwell's now. Favorite lines... Henry VIII: Why not geld me while you’re at it? That would suit you, Madame, wouldn’t it? The way he spat those lines out was amazing. Cromwell: Jane -- when the time comes to unburden your conscience, don't go to a priest; he'll give you penance, I'll give you a reward. Cromwell: Search Europe. You'll not find any talent I possess that England cannot use.

ChocButterfly: I don't know if he would have sacrificed Gendry when push came to shove -- he released Davos the first time he thought about it. In general, we must agree to disagree about Stannis. I don't know if he would win any prizes for father of the year in our world, but in Westeros he is practically Saint Dad. Amazing irony in the fact that Sansa is facing another potential assault on the castle where she is living from Stannis while in the clutches of psychopath.

Counterpoint -- Stannis could be using Mel as much as she thinks she is using him.

Favorite quote -- Jaime: Corpses raise questions, questions raise armies.

So, y'all feeling a little different about my One True King now? #bendtheknee. Amazing episode on many levels, but shocking how the Unsullied got chewed up in Mereen. They have "mastered the short sword, the shield, and the three spears", yet they somehow stuck with what looks like a long spear for patrolling tight spaces and an urban population? That doesn't make sense. 10:1 Harpy:Unsullied deaths sounds somewhat realistic, and it didn't look like there were 100 Sons of the Harpy attacking the 10 Unsullied. RIP Barristan, I can only hope that Grey Worm survived. Thank goodness they helped Littlefinger not look like a complete idiot -- he knows that Stannis is gunning for Team Bolton, but I will continue to think the LF "plan" is crap. What is to keep the Boltons from killing Sansa as soon as Stannis breaches the walls of Winterfell? Or sneaking off with her? Or (ugh) Ramsay getting her pregnant first? Too many variables, too risky. Much like Cersei's plan with the Sparrows -- that will end in tears. I would have sworn that Cersei was on the verge of some weird confession to the High Sparrow about the "sinner" in their midst, but now see that it was a set-up for Loras. And how lame that one of the Top 5 knights in Westeros gets seized by a gang or carpenters without a fight? Unless Arya kills Ser Trout (ha!) first? He is on The List, after all. And I don't know if Cersei wants a war with the Tyrells, she just needs some leverage against Margaery, so that Mags will come grovelling to Cersei... "Remember: Anything you need." Lots of small boats being rowed by various people in this episode, and still no Gendry. :'-( ETA: The feather that Sansa picked up from the floor next to Lyanna's crypt. All this madness and death over the last four years, and they call back to that scene with Robert and Ned in the very first episode of the series. Wow.

So sad at Sansa being down in the crypts beneath Winterfell, but I noticed some had wolves next to their statues; I wonder if we ever learn the fate of the mortal remains of Ned. So Mr. Tyrell is headed to Braavos -- with Meryn Trant!

Smokebaby Baratheon, black of air. Nobody wants to see Smokey again! I will try to do a half-time update after next Sunday.

I think that Cersei at High Garden was part of the plan when Tywin was going to force Cersei to marry Loras. Since Loras would be the heir to High Garden, they would live there. Cersei: (to Tywin) Joffrey is dead. Myrcella's been sold like livestock. And now you want to ship me off to High Garden and steal my boy. She was - The Maiden and the Stranger (it looks like her hair is backwards, braided over her face) are the two the High Septon wanted to "worship" (and Olyvar reminded him that it would cost more). I think you are exactly right -- the High Sparrow says 'Seven blessings' and speaks about 'the gods', so he and, I assume, the Sparrows worship The Seven, but they have zero tolerance for hypocrisy (a boil) and are in favor of equality in the eyes of the gods.