Anothermi

I'd deleted what I first posted because it was a repeat, but I now have something useful to contribute (that's my story anyway). What was most interesting to me was Claire's reaction to that disclosure. BJR was presenting all of his flogging experience as something that he discovered about himself and it made him uncomfortable. She bought it— hook, line and sinker—and her eyes were full of tears on his behalf. She believed he was struggling against that feeling while in fact, he was leaning into it. That's why she let down her guard so much that it was easy for him to sucker punch her in the gut.

I've only read it once, but I agree with the bolded part (I haven't read any other synopses, but I trust Gingerella.) And now I won't (may not) have to go back and watch it again. :-D And it harkens back to Episode One when he (painfully I might add) wraps the cloak around both of them while they ride through the rain. He initiates the first one, she the second—with reciprocal feeling.

I had to search for it, but he said it at the end of describing HIS experience of flogging Jamie—and how beautiful he found the "masterpiece" the two of them were creating. It was an epiphany for him. I think that was why I believed that being posted to Scotland was the "making" of Black Jack Randall. He became that horrible, mythic creature and he felt he was home. However, I didn't remember those exact words until Pallas supplied them. Thanks again!

If the definition of "good" is needing a smoke after? No. But I was pleased with half the sexy stuff. But like you (if I understood you correctly) it wore me... down. A whole episode? I felt for the actors. That must have been a long day. ETA. I went out after posting 1st time, but have read your post now and it has given me food for thought. I think I need time to ruminate on what I have seen and I haven't been getting it. Good thing I have your perspective—as well as Pallas'. Thanks.

I guess they answered my concerns about whether the marriage would go ahead. Yikes! They didn't have to beat me over the head with it. Besides the "the education of Master Jamie Fraser" (xx rated—they left something to the imagination, thankfully) I think we might have had 10 minutes of footage to further the story. There was the mangy cat, though. That's one for the plus side. The episode was fine. At least we didn't have to see folks beating each other up (see: Dothraki wedding entertainment) We now know Jamie's full name (and Claire's—she's got a royal name too—so there). And that his mates don't know crap about sex but they want the best for him anyway. And that marvellous Murtagh is a Fraser. And that actually Jamie has some things from his mother—whom he reveres. Also that Jamie insisted on a real wedding, but Dougal doesn't think it is. Made me harken back to Claire thinking Dougal was Hamish's father. Is that how he ensures his blood line will permeate the Mackenzie Clan? Or is he just a letch? That was the only twist/ new perspective I caught.

Yes. At this point in the show, Jamie just seems to be a bit more savvy than Claire, but just as impulsive when his sense of fairness/unfairness is triggered. I think you put your finger on it when you highlighted Jamie telling Claire "a man has to choose what’s worth fighting for". She doesn't choose - yet.

Well put @SassAndSnacks. I appreciate your point of view. I WAS easily annoyed when I wrote that, but I was aware that time could easily bring a new perspective for me. I do believe the show runners show us what we need to know. That's why I'm trying to keep track of the stuff I can't explain (to myself). Just not the day I viewed this episode.

Well.... First: I am in a much better mood today and will not be ranting (much) for this episode. It seems a bad day and an annoying episode wreak havoc on a persons mood. I also want to say the viewing and commenting on one episode a day is tiring! So we start back with Claire prevaricating about how to answer the lovely British Captain. (or what ever rank he was) At least I was correct that she wouldn't throw Dougal under the bus. But she did seem to be weighing her options before she spoke and that turned out to be the case. The uncomfortable scenes with the British Officers (who each would have had to be wealthy enough to purchase their commission) first put Claire at her ease because she was being treated respectfully. But their inability to act civilly to anyone not "of their class" must have been a shock for her. That stuff is rarely found in History books. Of course she would, then, go and forget what century she was in and speak her mind. (eyeroll) We learned what an adept manipulator Black Jack Randall is. He knows all the tricks, but finally reveals to both Claire and us that he is a sadist and revels in power. It seems clear to me that Claire's reaction to him was coloured by what she feels for his distant descendant. I hope we are not expected to believe that Sadism is a hereditary trait. I hope Frank just gets to have his own faults. I am referring, now, to the tea leaf reading that indicated that one of the strangers Claire lives with is her own husband. Frank is still in the running for this position, but Jamie entered the contest by the end of this episode. (assuming the marriage goes ahead). Given her experience of the British Army I can understand why she might go along with the marriage. It WILL make her the same as Jamie—an outlaw— but it will give her some protection by the Scots. Just from an obvious "at the time" point of view, I think Jamie was the only likely choice. No reasonable Scottish man would want to carry the shame of having a Sassenach wife foisted on him - not to mention one wanted by the British; and Jamie—as long as he has a price on his head—is no catch for a decent woman. To protect her from having to be handed over to BRG at Fort William she had to become a Scot. Jamie was probably the only candidate. So I'm good with this set up/explanation. I'm not sure why we had the scene with her assisting in the amputation of the arm of that soldier, but I do think it will come up again in the future. I sure didn't see the point of it in this episode. Same with the scene of the magical truth spring. Seems to me we already knew about the old beliefs, so why show us again? Unless it was just to explain Dougal's change of mind about Claire? It's going on my wait-and-see list. Claire's comment "It was a sad day for Private McGreavey when he got stationed to Scotland." made me think about the Viet Nam war from our century. Britain was engaged in a lot of wars in the 18th century. Most of them used known terms of engagement. The Scots, however, engaged in more of a guerrilla style form of combat. It would have been un-nerving for men with Standard British Army training. It could also create someone like BJR who started with the belief that he was superior and learned that he was both wily and enjoyed killing, but more so, he enjoyed debasing people and inflicting pain as his means of proving his superiority. I tried to fast forward through the flogging of Jamie, but I was too curious to see how Tobias Menzies portrayed Jack in this. I was impressed. As for the gore, I focused on how the props/makeup department would have created the actor's back. That worked for me—somewhat to my surprise. I think that if BJR is afraid of anything it would be being stripped of his commission and command. He's in his sweet spot currently. But if the British Army were plunged into a war they were not prepared for, heads (of lower rank) would take all the blame and Captain is not a very high rank. BJR is no fool. IF the marriage actually goes through (and yes I've see the title of the next episode, but titles can mislead) I am hoping that Jamie will continue teasing Claire; and that she will develop a sense of humour. 😄

Thanks for that, Pallas. The fact that Tanistry had been outlawed at that time had escaped my speed-reading capabilities. Probably Claire's too, as she got the Murtagh's Notes version of what was happening. I do remember reading that the Tanist tradition tended to devolve into Clan Warz, so I can see why King James wanted to get rid of it. Good for Clans (perhaps) but not for countries. Your Britannia link adds the bit I remembered above and is presented in easier-to-understand language. The Wikipedia Link I supplied was harder reading. (although— thanks to Dictionary.com—I did know what "agnate" meant.)

Claire is not my favourite character in this episode. And what's with the manipulation of us viewers at the end—among other things? Normal!Claire can't keep her gob shut but confront her with a baby faced English soldier and she has no words. No support for Dougal's claims about her being there of her own free will is tantamount to claiming that she is a captive! Is she actually torn between the brutes who rescued her and the 'Assenachs? Does she think the British will let her do what she wants? Jesus H Roosevelt Christ! I'm sure her silence is just in service of the cliff-hanger ending, but I. Don't. Like. It. The other manipulation that annoyed me was the whole "I don't speak Gaelic and they're speaking it to annoy me" thing. The problem is that quite a number of them would have little knowledge of English. And yet, there are the women of this small village all speaking fluent English! Women, as a group, would be the last to learn a foreign language. It took me completely out of the episode. So, now I've got to calm my breathing and start again. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~calmness demarkation (kinda)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I started the episode being lulled by the voice of Ned Gowan (Bill Paterson, who's mellifluous tones narrated the feel-good BBC show The Repair Shop). His voice makes me believe all is right with the world. And he seemed like a lovely man and Claire treated his asthma with natural remedies. What could be better? We got to see how rents are collected and these clans people seem more willing to pay their share than depictions I've seen of rent collection from Englishmen during a similar time period. Especially given what we learned next. We moved quickly to Claire's exchange with the women, ALL of whom knew a foreign tongue—English. I waved my hands about pushing that unlikely scenario out of my mind and I enjoyed learning about the dying of the wool. The piss involved in setting the dye was not a surprise nor was the singing really. I expect the point of that scene was that she got 'intel' on where her circle-of-stones is located in respect to where she was at that point. Oh, and that the baby was going hungry so the Laird could be paid. Then Claire was fetched back and, having stoked her internal fires of outrage did what she does best. Interfere in a belligerent way. (Sigh. She is a slow learner) During the altercation she started, the new minister of Granchester an Englishman arrives to save her. She loses her ability to speak. (Hope this will be explained because I was spitting tacks at the message she was sending him—"ooh, I can't speak out or these devils will hurt me". Yup. Still can't believe she lost her tongue. It was interesting that Ben Gowan didn't disabuse her of the conclusions she had drawn. But, why would he? She might just run off and inform the English. She certainly acts like a (very inept) spy. Her belief in her own superiority is breathtaking. I wished she would just remember that she was "no longer in Kansas" /wizard of Oz. At least I was happy that Jamie told her not to judge things she doesn't understand—which is most everything in THIS world. Then finally she was able to put a few words of Gaelic together and with the assistance of a remembered conversation with Frank she realizes that the fund raising is not a charlatans scheme, but for a cause. Frank has his uses. All of a sudden she's sympathetic and they end up fighting to defend her honour, but because she has put no effort into even learning the basics of Gaelic she misunderstands even that and berates them for just being juvenile. And then she thinks she has to dissuade them (or some one who might be able to) from participating in the coming attempt to put Bonny Prince Charley on the throne of Scotland even though she can't back up her knowledge without sounding crazy and comes across sounding like and Sassenach apologist instead. At least the Frank memory tapes were once again brought in to explain the devastating consequences of losing that fight. The breaking up of the clans; the loss of all their property; the banning of Gaelic. Me thinks knowing where Jamie is in the pecking order will not mean anything at that point. And so to the ending I was ranting about at the beginning. I know this episode was probably needed. But I didn't enjoy it. On to a better one.

Curse your analytic mind! (not really). Yes, the time travel does transport the corporeal body, but that doesn't allow for passing right through another body. Something to be understood in the future, then.

That was what I was getting back to later, but forgot to do when I hit the submit button. I've added it as an ETA now. Great minds think alike. But I believe the lovely Murtagh mentioned Hamish's age as a problem as well. Claire knows, and I think all the clan expects, that Colum won't be Laird much longer—due to his condition.

I wondered about Colum as well, but I expect his disease did not manifest until well after he became Liard. And the office is for life. I hadn't thought about Jamie's body blemishes, but it does explain why Jaime doesn't want anyone to see them. (Except Claire and he sure assumes she's on his side no matter what! At least as much as he's on her side. Although I don't think she's fully bought into this... pact?)

You are right. I think it is the themes that I have conflated. They are quite similar in my mind, but one fully describes Claire's experience and the other her state of mind from time to time?

While I want to like Geillis—as a co-outsider—she really does seem more of an antagonist than supporter. And I have to add Laoghaire (AKA Leery) as another potential enemy for Claire—if only due to jealousy. Still, Geillis offered this advice to Claire when she was trying to suss out what Claire was planning: The Highlands are no place for a woman to be alone. You'd do well to remember that. Yes to this. Jamie seems to have quite a "crew" for such an apparent loner. Claire, on the other hand, really can't trust anyone—except for Jamie—so far. Claire's well organized—but not so well thought out—escape plan was done and dusted early in this episode. And we got another instance of Jamie taking "command" of her actions to protect her—the first being when he threatened to hoist her over his shoulder to take her with them after they routed the ambushers. Frank may love that Claire is stubborn and can't be deterred once her mind is made up, but Jamie only loves it to a point! 😉 He's even reminded her that the Scots do not take kindly to Sassenachs—don't find them so pretty was how he put it. Claire actually translated that for us. Jamie said "je suis prêt" = "I am ready" in response to Claire bemoaning that she'd gotten him into trouble (again I might add). He smiled confidently at her when he said that, so he seemed to be looking forward to what we thought might be a dangerous situation for him. I was surprised to realize that he knew French but on first viewing I didn't take it to mean anything but that it was his personal motto—like 'be prepared'. Only by going back to that scene did I note that he had prefaced that phrase by asking her if she knew what his/ his clan's motto was. So good catch Ging. When Claire had described his use of Mactavish as a "nom de guerre" and he replied "something like that", I took it to mean he assumed she understood the reason, not that HE understood the French. Duh. There would certainly be Scots who spoke French in that time. There was trade—and once Henry VIII created the Church of England—there was politics. The Scots relied on French Catholic support to maintain sovereignty over their lands and religion. But, it would likely have been higher status folks who would have learned it. Given that Jamie said he learned Latin and Greek and "the like", it's not difficult to accept that he learned French as well. So, to echo @gingerella—Would that make his father—and him— higher status than the Laird of Leoch? It was definitely stirring—which I'm sure it was meant to be. Especially in dangerous times when you needed to know who was on your side. It's the predicament that Jamie was put in regarding the oath that intrigues me. If HE swears fealty he somehow becomes "in line" to succeed as Laird!? We'd only recently heard young Hamish Mackenzie call himself son and heir of the current Liard. (and THAT scene I'll get back to later). Murtagh (the wonderful) explains to Claire that the Scottish clans "are tanist". (I had to look that up in Wikipedia. It's a form of modified election.) On top of that bombshell, Murtagh explains that Dougal wants to be Laird after his brother and would have to kill Jamie to get rid of the competition—so Jamie has his supporters. However, if Jamie doesn't swear fealty, he's effectively declaring himself an enemy and death also the outcome of that. Rock and a hard place much? But our silver tongued Jamie is ready! He finds that middle path that satisfies everyone. That's some complex politicking for one so young. Just sayin' . I loved the scene of Claire and Dougal caring for the dying man. Good to see that part of Claire's war experience coming through because all we'd seen so far is her surgical skills, not the compassionate part of her. And of course it humanized Dougal as well. Put them both on a level field together. He cared as much for his "men" as she did for a human being. ETA Back to the scene in previous episode when Claire assumes Hamish is the son of Dougal and can't seem to get out of her drunken faux pas. There was quite an uncomfortable moment as the head table cast looks about but said nothing. I'm now wondering—especially after the boar gored man got Dougal to confess that he slept with the man's sister and seemed to forgive Dougal because he could "always charm the lasses". Did he also charm Letitia? Colum's wife?

Yes. I relate it to the sensation she described during the car accident. I've noticed—with myself, but also in others—that a trauma that big our first reaction is to want it to be over. To deny that anything that might be life changing has happened. To insist on getting—to the doctor, the store, the friend, the responsibility—on with life as it was before. It makes a lot of sense emotionally. It seems he was all in when he first met her in story—and possibly before. Pretty sure that was him that Frank encountered in the street in the 1940s. He seems to know where to find her. I can't help but wonder if he's been bouncing around time even before we became aware of the phenomenon? Too right. I know the actor from many other shows. But not portraying the malevolence he's flaunting here. The hairs on my neck were standing on end. Good Job! THIS! Inquiring minds want to know! They clearly know each other well, and Murtagh does seem to act like a father figure/ protector. Probably the only man Jamie can trust completely. I need some backstory here. Sooner rather than later... please show. I just realized that it is the opening credits tune—but with the verses added. Seems to me that it is about Claire. Sorry Ging. Definitely excellent questions from where I stand. Don't think it will be possible to separate the "story" from the time travel. On a different point—the waking-dream of confiding in Mrs Fitz and being accused of being a witch—THAT freaked me out. Let's hope she remembers the need to keep her cards close to her chest. She can't go round assuming nice folks will be accepting of her experience. I did, however, like the forensic search at the site of the demonic possession (the Black Kirk). Another instance of Jamie completely accepting Claire.

During a mini review of episode one I ran across this little exchange from when Claire had her tea leaves and lifeline read by the Reverend's housekeeper(?). Everything in it's contradictory. There's a curved leaf, which indicates a journey, but it's crossed by a broken one, which means staying put. Hmm. And there are strangers there, to be sure. Several of them. And one of them's your husband, if I read the leaves aright. And on to reading her palm: The lifeline's interrupted, all bits and pieces. The marriage line's divided. Means two marriages. But... Most divided lines are broken. Yours is... Forked. Certainly speculation bait if I ever heard it. My first assumption was—as @gingerella has been noting—was that Frank was a stranger to her. Makes sense in the 1st episode, but what with the forked marriage line and all the falderal with Claire and Jamie, and with umpteen more seasons ahead of us... hmmm. Thought we might need to harken back to this... just in case.

Aye, lass. That it is. We learned a great deal about Jamie: - His father was a landowner and he was related to the Mackenzies via his mother. (From Jamie's exposition about how he got the scars on his back. "They put a levy on all the land-holders in the county, sent out small parties of soldiers collecting food, horses for transport, and suchlike." And that his father was away at a funeral the day Black Jack arrived.) still to learn— Is his father still alive? - Jamie's sister was raped by Frank's ancestor. (Initially I wondered if that might mean Frank's lineage comprised a bit of Jamie's, but Black Jack would not have acknowledged a random bastard for the public record. He'd have needed his own volume!) - Murtaugh is the name of the man who rescued Claire from Black Jack Randall. I'm liking him more the more I see him. (now we just need to know why he is so protective of Jamie) - Jamie trusts Claire enough to let her know his back story and that Mactavish is a fake name, not to mention telling her that he trusts her. (This exchange may be related to Dougal & Callum's reason for putting Jamie to work in the stables and why he should not be caught in the castle.) still to learn—more about this family connection (what IS his last name since it is his mother who is from the Mackenzies.) Jamie's outlaw status and the extent of Black Jack's involvement - presumed deeply involved A bit about Claire: - She has been trained in how to withstand interrogation (although she seems to have slept through some of those lessons) - That her study of medicinal plants also taught her (and me—via professor Google) that there was a clan known for their medical smarts know as Beatons. That is what she asked Mrs. Fitz to understand what was meant by "a charmer". (oops. will have to leave it at this for now.)

I have to note that I perceived the belt as dark red when Claire awoke in 1743. But when she dreamed she'd gotten back to her own time it appeared to be brown. Was that a trick of my own mind or a cinematographers? We've had re-appearance of the Shawl in that same scene—which makes sense given that she was returning from whence she came and where it was left. As for the watch. I still haven't seen it at all. Apparently, time has no meaning for me anymore! < pandemic reference there ;-) >

So, let me introduce myself. I belong with @Gingerella and @Pallas—refugees from the Unsullied lands of GoT. I'm just getting started with Outlander, although I'd had it on my "watch" list on Netflix for quite some time now. I'd heard references to it from other Unsullied posters and that was recommendation enough for me. However, I know zilch about the show. I have few remarks to make here as this was my 1st viewing and I'm trying to get my bearings. I'd forgotten that Tobias Menzies was in this. I first knew him as Edmure Tully (GoT) and then most recently as Prince Phillip in The Crown. It's a bit of an adjustment, but it appears he's allowed a greater range of emotions in this show. ;-) The cinematography really IS outstanding. I especially liked the monochrome town punctuated by the gorgeous blue of Claire's coat and the vase in the shop window. In retrospect, it felt like 1947(?) was not really real - except for Claire and the vase. @gingerella, I chuckled at the scene when she left her shawl on the ground and you yelled at her. I kept my eyes peeled for why she would need it. I found that if she had brought it with her she might not have been so bloody visible to the British! That white dress sure annoyed me—and for an extended period of time!. On the other hand, it appears not having her own cloak gave young Jaime the excuse to snuggle close to her because his cloak wouldn't go around both of them if he didn't. (snigger) I couldn't sense what Claire might be thinking, so I didn't take to her this episode. I assume I'll understand more as the story processes. I AM appreciating the nuances both @Pallas and @gingerella are bringing to their rewatch. I think they will add a great deal to my understanding of the show in these early days. ETA I'm almost ready to launch a Milk Carton Campaign (™ @Whitestumbler) for Claire's lovely red belt— that she had on when she woke in the past but just disappeared by the time Black Jack Randal espied her.

Yep. What I thought watching that scene— "projection much?"—so I agree with you.

History tells us that it is rare for a monarch to succeed in that very endeavour. Elizabeth's father may have succeeded with her, but her grandfather George V and his father, Edward VII and his mother, Queen Victoria (who he didn't get along with) and so on, did not succeed either. It's a grand procession that stretches back into the mists of time.

What happened to children with developmental issues or what we call autism spectrum who did not come from rich families was even worse!

That is a rather unfortunate photo of Jack Kennedy! He looks like a life-size doll of Howdy Doody. OK. I've had my chuckle. Nobody looks good when caught with their eye mid-blink, or perhaps he'd had to take painkillers for his back?

Well... using this picture, so was Bertie/George! In actual fact it was clear to me that the long, (and I used to refer to the look as horsey-faced, but I've gotten kinder as I age) ahem.. aristocratic features that Charles exhibits came from him.