thesparkinside

While they were talking about the prophecy, I was like, "Wait, wait, who do they mean?" I don't know why it didn't come to me immediately that it was Brianna, but I decided to just let it go and keep watching so that I didn't miss anything. It came to me a minute or two after finishing. It was a decent episode. Loved Young Ian's shocked reactions and Geilis being both evil and not stupid (I really liked, "Of all the gin joints . . . "). And Lord John not knowing wtf was going on but trying to be okay with it all. I'm glad they went there (a bit) with the slavery issue. I expected Jamie and Claire to say, "Are you sure you want to live off in the woods with a colony of runaways? We might be able to get you somewhere where you can live openly and freely . . . " But I guess they're done with that character, so they let him ride off into the sunset (kind of). I really liked the repurposing of clothing, as they discussed in the behind the scenes snippet. It is quite realistic, actually. Clothing was very valuable, especially the finer stuff like Claire's dress and Jamie's suit of clothes. Very cool. Oh, and I LURVED Geilis's sack dress when she was talking to Archibald and Margaret! The wigs were bad, but I think that was purposeful. :) The blood bath was insane. It could have come off dumb of silly, but I think it worked. Is she crazy or awesome or scary or what? Young Ian, like Lord John, has a great WTF face. I think we got subtle clues that Claire understands what's going on with Lord John, but I'm glad it wasn't more overt and that it wasn't actually discussed (I would have had to roll my eyes HARD if Claire openly discussed the fact that LJ has the hots for her husband in a public place where anyone could overhear it).

Oh, I liked that clip. John Bell is killing it as Young Ian. :)

I'm actually a fan of the secondary characters, perhaps more so than Claire and Jamie. I love Roger and Fergus and Marsali and Young Ian. I've never liked Briana much, but I don't dislike her. Then there are the one-off characters like Father Fogden, who kind of steal the show. Once C and J are established, the other characters take on a lot of the story. We're seeing quite a bit of that here--Fergus and Marsali got a lot of screen-time, and in this episode and others secondary figures have really been handled effectively (Mary McNabb, for instance). I'm sure next season we'll have lots of Briana and Roger (yes, please).

Oooh! That was flint she stumbled over? I couldn't tell. I thought she'd brought flint and steel with her when she jumped because, yes, you do need flint AND steel to make a fire, as far as I know. A decent episode. Nothing really blew me away. We didn't need as much of the wandering through the jungle. I thought this version of Father Fogden was interesting and gave us just enough tension--he fluctuated between bat-shit and maybe-okay. The info-dumpy bit was info-dumpy. And I also didn't love Marsali's line about wanting to bed Fergus. The line before it (something about "Hurry up and I'll be able to see for myself whether he has a cock") was sufficient to get across the meaning. The rest of the wedding was nicely done, and kudos to the actors playing Fergus and Marsali. They did a lovely job. I also enjoyed the turtle-soup scene and Yi Tien Cho's smile as he walked away from the door, hearing Jamie and Claire's, er, moans.

"Mess" would be where they ate. I believe the term on a ship for "toilets" (of a sort) was "the head".

Fergus and Marsali convinced the captain that if Jamie gave his word not to rebel, he would keep it. I'm not a hundred percent sure why the captain believes them, but I think we can infer perhaps from previous episodes that he was really looking for an excuse to let Jamie out. He seems to be the sort to put on a display to mollify his men while knowing at the same time that it isn't necessary the best option. And thank God *Fergus* kept his head, because bloody Jamie telling him to try to incite a mutiny . . . Jesus. That would be a sure death sentence because it almost certainly wouldn't work. And for what? So they could catch up with Claire, when they're going to meet up with her in Jamaica anyway? Jesus, Jamie, way to bring down everyone with you for no really good reason. And yes, he's worried about Claire being alone on a ship with 300 men, but I think getting yourself, Fergus, and probably some other men killed isn't the best way to try to help her. She wasn't in imminent danger, really--just in a place where there *might* be some danger. Anyway, I was really glad to see the photographs come out again, and I loved poor Elias Pound. That kid was great--heartbreaking, too. He was trying so hard. I didn't like the way Claire yelled at him about licking the grog off his fingers. Lay off, Claire. He has no idea what germs are or why you're doing what you're doing. Take it easy. She did treat him much better in other scenes. I was really pleased to see them develop the relationship between Fergus and Marsali. They're cute and a good team. And the goat-lady (sorry, can't recall how to spell her name) was really cool, too. I like how secondary characters are competent and are helpful, whereas in many shows it's all The Hero doing Hero Things and the rest of the world is just kind of there. I really did love all the seafaring details. Overall, a great episode.

Finally got to watch the episode this morning, and I really enjoyed it. I don't have a lot to add to what's already been said. I think Sam's doing a really good job. If there are weak moments, it seems to be because the script is a bit weak. He's done some fine work this season. I haven't watched Black Sails and so haven't noticed any cross-over. I wouldn't say there are "Easter eggs". They're using the same sets (for practical reasons, not in order to pay homage [or whatever] to Black Sails) and apparently there's one actor who's in both. Not exactly a huge overlap. I did love the little tiff between Marsali and Jamie. And I agree that Claire's comment about letting it "fizzle" was her telling Jamie to give F and M time to get over that initial rush--but to [try to] keep them from consumating their relationship in the meantime, since that would be irrevocable.. I really liked Marsali's feistiness. She has every reason to dislike Claire and is not the sort to keep quiet about it. To be fair, I'm probably okay with her attitude only because I know it will change. If I didn't know that, I would not like her at all. Though it's been mentioned here in this thread, it's important to remember that Fergus is handicapped. He's limited in the work he can do with one hand. It was more stigmatized in the 18th century to be handicapped/disabled. Add to that the fact that he's a bastard, orphaned Frenchman raised in a brothel as a petty criminal . . . . Well, on it's face, it's a bad match, and while Jamie loves Fergus, I think he's aware that it's a "bad match". And, as is indicated by the list of women's names, Jamie has reason to distrust Fergus's ability/desire to remain faithful to Marsali. I really think Jamie is thinking of Marsali here. He's (rightly) wary of the match. I'm bummed they cut that bit with Briana's photos, especially since they underplayed the scene when he first sees the photos. What a missed opportunity. I'm sure they edited these episodes ages ago and are kicking themselves for cutting this, given the backlash they got over the earlier scene.

Okay, another question I had, and maybe it's addressed somewhere, but . . . why do they not take a bloody boat out to the island? Why do they swim?

Also, at some point I think Jamie says something to the effect that he took good care of Young Ian and will continue to do so . . . I was like BWAAHAHAHA on both counts.

Yes, that was much better. I enjoyed the whole episode, with the interplay of humor and drama, and people not acting like fools. The more elaborated stories that Claire and Jamie told Jenny were plausible. The actress playing Jenny (Laura Donnelly, right?) brought her A game. Lots of layers there--you could see the thoughts going on under the surface. I continue to love Young Ian; young Joanie was delightful, and yey for Marsali! [Side note: in my head, it's Mar-sally. I guess it's Mars-a-lee?] I had two very small quibbles: Jamie says essentially that Jenny wouldn't understand The Truth because she's lived all her life on the farm. I was a little insulted on Jenny's behalf. Just because she lives at Lallybroch doesn't mean she's dumb. Second, Claire mentions Richmond being lovely "this time of year", which was funny. However, Richmond was an upstart town at that time, and Williamsburg or Alexandria would have been more familiar to Scots in the mid-18th century. To them "Richmond" would probably mean the place in England first. Also, when Claire mentioned "Boston" in previous episodes, it occurred to me that her listeners might have thought first of the Boston in England (though Boston, Mass. *was* a thriving city at that point, obviously). Those are SUPER minor, though, and unimportant since the meaning was perfectly clear.

Ah, but it didn't have to be FRANK, which is what I alluded to up-thread. There were, in my mind--and this is just where I might take it if I were the writer; who knows how well it might actually play out--two options. One, handle it much as they did, with Claire and Jamie moving in tandem through time. However, instead of focusing on Claire and Frank, they could have focused on her career (and given Joe more screen time), or her relationship with Briana like they did with Jamie and Willie. Two--and this is what I propose above--just stay in 1968, which is where we were at the very end of season 2. The drama would be the constant uncovering of new bits of information and what it all means for Claire and Briana. That's how I would have played it if I were a writer (also, that's basically how DG handled it). Too bad they didn't ask me, lol.

Yeah, they could have cut a lot of the Frank stuff, his resemblance or otherwise to the book character notwithstanding. It was somewhat pointless. We basically learned all we needed to know about Frank, Claire, and Bree at the end of season 2--he's dead, he raised Bree, he and Claire had a fraught relationship. Anything more could've been worked in as dialogue. He could have been present without being there, ya know? My strategy, much like the book, would have been to continue on with 1968 as a frame to the 18th-century story: as they came across new info, we saw Jamie living it. That would have done wonders in developing Claire, Briana, and Roger together and in making the story more about Claire's goals instead of about Frank. Ahem, anyway, that's just my own take on that. But I can't imagine they'd SKIP Fergus and Marsali's wedding. Kind of an important life event, no? They might downplay it a bit more than me/you/others might like, but it seems like they have to hit that particular milestone.

Also, I think it's fair to point out that even if 16 was considered "full-grown", it was still young. And, heck, I'm 30, and my parents would be worried if I went missing! What Papa Ian was worried about specifically was Young Ian being impressed/pressed--that is, being kidnapped and taken into the navy or onto a merchant vessel. If you could knock someone out and carry them onto a ship, by the time they wake up, the ship is off to sea and will be gone for months or years with no one back home being any the wiser. That was a common practice at the time, and actually was one of the major gripes the new United States had with Great Britain in the early 1800s: the British kept kidnapping Americans and forcing them to work on their ships. That's what Ian was talking about--a blink-and-you-miss-it moment, but a reference to a real historical practice.

Quick historical note: trephination [drilling a hole in the skull] has been done for millennia. It was usually unsuccessful, as you can imagine . . .

Also, it's entirely possible Yi Tien Cho will be accused of murder simply because he's an outsider. That would be *at least* as realistic as having him be accused because he has a sexual fetish. People do start blaming outsiders when they lack answers (see: like every witch trial ever).

I got the impression that Fergus was relaying what he'd heard other people say about Claire. The wording is something like, "They say she took a few lives, too." He doesn't say he saw her take any lives, or that he believes she took any lives. I'm sure that if there was gossip she was a white lady (or a witch or a fairy, or whatever), then the gossip would naturally progress to, "And she killed people, too!" Fergus doubtless heard that talk. I'm not clear why the writers threw that bit of conversation in there, actually. Ian already knows Auntie Claire has a reputation, and what Fergus tells him doesn't add much... I actually really enjoyed this episode overall. I think I liked it better than last episode. Upon second viewing, my opinion may switch. You all make some very valid points about weird continuity things (like Ian ending up on the floor) and plot things (like when Claire just runs down to the apothecary for some stuff so she could perform bloody brain surgery) and character things (like Jamie lying to Ian about Young Ian's whereabouts). Also, the excise men are like, "We'll search everywhere for the goods!" Then they search ONLY the basement. Because, obviously, they couldn't have hidden the contraband ANYWHERE ELSE. Like in the attic . . . They suck at their jobs. I enjoyed the episode, though. The fact that Jamie and Claire butted heads over their differences actually did ring true, even if some of the specifics seem a bit OOC. If we're being honest, someone raised in the 20th century would have a really hard time relating to someone raised in the early 18th century. Last episode, it was all subdued lovey-dovey--which didn't particularly work me; there needed to be underlying conflict, or just so much emotion from them that any other considerations (aside from "OMG we're together") was subsumed. The slow undressing and long, weepy speeches didn't do it for me (sorry). A bit of conflict seemed more realistic in that they started working through things. And hoo boy do they have things to work through. (I'm not wild about how Jamie spoke about Brianna and about Ian and Jenny, though. In fact, it was pretty outrageous.) What really made the episode, though, was Young Ian. His bromance with Fergus was delightful, and I liked that Fergus gave him advice instead of picking out a whore for him, lol. I liked his singing with the barmaid and that it was just two young people having fun. Kind of a bummer how the night ended for him, though! I also bought the fact that Fergus allowed him to negotiate with Whoever It Was. Fergus was right there and could step in if it looked like things weren't going well, but they were, so he let the kid get some experience. And it showed Ian to be bright and capable, which is also important for everyone to know/keep in mind. Oh, and if Jamie did just send Fergus to kill that guy (if necessary, I think; Fergus isn't like a hitman for hire), then that wouldn't be super out of character for Jamie OR Fergus. Jamie's pretty ruthless, and Fergus is not squeamish (he is also very loyal to Jamie).

See, I didn't have a major problem with the photos scene, or with Jamie telling Claire about Willie. In fact I was glad he told her about Willie--that whittles it down to one thing he hasn't told her. I have some issues with the timing and the emphasis, but not a MAJOR problem. I might have done it differently; I think it could have maybe been better. But I don't think the writers, director, and actors made *bad* choices. It just could have been better (or not--maybe my version of it would be terrible). That's my take. There were two things that I thought *were* bad choices: the threat of rape (again) at the very end and the non sequitar with Claire saying (in voice-over mode) that they discussed the last 20 years over dinner, then Jamie going on to explain something major from the last 20 years ("Uh, I thought she just said that they did a recap of their lives for one another."). And yes, lots of discussion isn't a bad thing!

Haha, that was my reaction, too. That would mean it happened somewhere around the time he lost his hand, too, wouldn't it? (The timeline is a bit fuzzy.) I wonder exactly how many girls/women were hanging about Lallybroch looking for a menage-a-trois with a 15-year-old French boy. But other than that, this clip was hilarious. I loved Young Ian gulping nervously.

The tune, I believe, is older, but there is a version about BPC sailing off to the Isle of Skye. The words used for the theme song for Outlander are from a Robert Louis Stevenson poem (which is not about BPC but does mention the Isle of Skye): https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45949/sing-me-a-song-of-a-lad-that-is-gone Yes, I really liked this scene, too! A "slice of life" which shows us what Jamie was up to--and in the process gives us a nice historical demonstration of a printing press!

Oh, I think overall, the writers have done a really good job. They've condensed a LOT of material and done so, for the most part, very gracefully. They've sidestepped some of the issues with the books, like the scene with Genenva and (seemingly) the more racially insensitive stuff with Mr Willoughby/Yi Tien Cho. Naturally, that can create some undesirable knock-on effects, but I think they're clever enough to make it work. My main concerns aren't so much with what that choose to leave out/put in, but sometimes with the execution and what they DO show. It is going to be hard to pull off Mohawk-warrior Ian; in the books, I believe several years pass, so he grows up, but in the reality for the show, I don't think as much time will pass and the actor won't have the chance to grow into that. [They're already filming next season, where he ends up with the Mohawks . . . ] We'll have to see how they tackle that!

Hm, I'm still undecided on how I feel about the episode overall. It's was spot-on for me, that's for sure. I'm just not sure whether the positive outweighs the negative. The cold opening was wonderful, especially Jamie frowning at the sign and cleaning something off it. That's a simple scene that conveys a lot about Jamie's life and about Jamie as a character. It was great to see the moments leading up to Claire's appearance, since it gives us a little more context on why he was so surprised--he'd just been going about his usual business, ya know? Printing sedition and whatnot, as you do, and all of a sudden, he hears Claire's voice. I wish they'd done a better job conveying character so quickly and easily in other scenes. It felt a bit disjointed and some things did not quite connect, things that have been pointed out: Madame Jeanne being hostile, Jamie seemingly thinking of his marriage to Loaghaire but later saying he hadn't thought of it before, the fact that he told Claire about Willie but not about said marriage to L, that moment when they'd been "telling each other all about their past" [paraphrasing]over dinner but then he tells her about Ardsmuir as if he'd skipped that part of his life maybe . . . small things, yes, but one does notice them. I can almost give the writers a pass for having Jamie tell Claire about Willie but not Laoghaire because he did kind of start to tell her twice, and she said, basically, "It can wait." It kind of looked like an "Oh, thank God" look on his face. Okay. Fine, I guess. And I don't mind him telling her right off. I was kind of glad, even if I didn't buy it entirely on a character level. I know that the dropping in of information happened across in several times and places, and it was a bit madcap, but in the show it seemed even less connected, maybe because there wasn't that madcap-ness as a background to make it all seem like one long, silly scene. In this episode, it just felt like random bit of info followed by random bit of info. The intro of Young Ian, for instance, just seemed like a strange, disposable interlude. He just kind of pops in, says, "Oh, are you a whore?" She says, "No, I'm your long-lost aunt." He's like, "Oh, cool. Well, bye." And I honestly DID think that Geordie was Ian for a minute when he first walked in. I admit to being somewhat prudish, but I did feel the sex scenes were a bit too Sex Scene, ya know? They're like LOOK IT'S A SEX SCENE. SO MUCH SEX. Or maybe it was just me. I did like the infusion of humor. I was especially put off by that conversation that seemed to go on forever with Claire's boobies just hanging out there, and the camera just kind of focusing on her naked torso. Geez. Did they have to frame the conversation that way? I was a bit disappointed by Fergus's reunion with Milady. They're just walking down the street, and there he is. Now, how it was handled worked fine, but I wish they'd kept the part with him meeting her in the brothel and her mistaking him for a customer! A big part of Fergus's character is his roguishness. The way they did it worked, though--the comment about him growing up to be handsome was lovely, and the actor works for me. I'm wondering if we'll get him recommending a girl for Young Ian in another episode, lol. Those are all the negative things. Like I said, I liked the infusions of humor. I REALLY liked the cover story of her going to America. It still has massive flaws as a lie, but it's better than France, because one didn't just "drop by" Scotland if one had relocated to, say, Boston, so it's plausible that she'd gone there and never written or come back. I liked the awkwardness melting into familiarity for Jamie and Claire. Glad the Yi Tien Cho/Mr. Willoughby stuff was handled better. I'm still a bit ambivalent, but I'd say maybe 6.5 out of 10 overall, and 9 out of 10 for certain parts of it. I don't know that any parts of it NAILED it for me.

Yes, North Carolina certainly was a Confederate state, and slavery was very much a part of life and culture there. To be fair, though, the upland regions of NC (and other states) were more likely to be pro-Union or have pro-Union pockets. A place like Fraser's Ridge might have been such a pocket. But the Civil War is a bit of a white elephant in the room whenever slavery is mentioned. It's not clear if anyone ever explains to Jamie--or, say, Ian--how/when slavery came to an end.

To jump is a little late on this, I note that upthread someone said the actor for Young Fergus was too young to play 16/17, but actually the actor, Romann Berrux, turned 16 this year (according to IMBD)!

To go off on a bit of a tangent, I remembered something from the episode that I really liked: Roger's story about his father. And am I remembering correctly that he was looking at a small toy airplane as well, or was that a different episode? In any case, it made me think of the novella with his father and what happens in book 8. We don't even learn how his parents died until much later, when he tells Bree, so it's cool to see a tiny hint of it early on.

Oh, yeah, the Sandy stuff was awful. *Why* did Claire stand there and take it? Why didn't she say that Frank had wanted to stay int he marriage? He did! Maybe it was for Bree's sake, but does it matter? Claire should have said something. And, yeah, not everyone will learn about Paul Revere's ride being mostly a myth. It depends on where you live and who taught you. Also keep in mind, lots of people are taught things but then forget them. Even at Harvard, I'm sure lots of students aren't as well-versed in history as they could/should be.