AmandaUnbidden

https://youtu.be/R45eiu8SXko Hopefully I’m posting this in the right thread, and that it hasn’t already been posted. I just saw this posted on reddit and felt that it really explains all the symbolism and parallels in The Handmaid’s Tale really well. It also really shows all of the points The Handmaid’s Tale is trying to make about our society, sexism, the importance of reproductive freedom to everyone etc. Worth a watch, I think.

I’ve seen this research before too. Very interesting stuff! Also proved we are inherently bias to those “like” us. Makes me think of teen mom 2 and Jenelle and Jace’s reactions to Jenelle and Barb. I think Jace definitely looks toward and prefers Barb although I have seen him crying at the door for Jenelle too when he was a baby. He may not have been able to differentiate between who was in the right or wrong between the two because of all the anger and yelling from both sides. Just terrible to think about what these kind of environments do to babies as they grow up. Definitely some long term damage to the baby if they constantly see it. Now to get back to the topic of this show. Danae is definitely way out of line and is being abusive towards Brianna even if he never actually touched her. She needs to get and stay far away from him. She need some counseling to help her see the red flags and to completely remove herself from him. Also, the temper tantrums and emotional abuse he displays has nothing to do with him being a trans boy. Yes transgender people are going through unimaginable mental pain trying to deal with their dysphoria but that does not make all of them act like him. His being a transgender person and his abusive tactics are completely separate things. I feel Danae still would’ve been an abusive asshole even if he never experienced gender dysphoria. It does make it even more scary that he is acting like this before even starting testosterone. He is definitely in no state to start that kind of treatment. Anyway, pleasantly surprised Brianna quietly and calmly left that shit show and appears to not be looking back. I hope she’s able to continue to completely stay away. As for Stephan, don’t even get me started! I think everything has already been said but I still have to rant. Kayla’s mother should have called the cops immediately and got him out of her house and a restraining order against him. I don’t care if this is where his child is. He’ll have to see him at a neutral location. He should’ve thought about that before he stole money from her and then preceded to unleash a violent outburst on her and her daughter in front of said child! I’m also wondering what happened to the aunt that set him straight at the baby shower. Of course, it’s not her fault he turned out this way. It just seems like he has some really good family members that have tried to teach him right from wrong. His behavior is not just inexcusable but scary and abusive. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s already hit Kayla either. If he hasn’t yet, he will. It’s only a matter of time. Abuse always escalates. One reason I hate these teen mom shows is that they film all of these abusive situations but do nothing to try to help the girls being abused. They even placate them and allow them to rationalize it all like how Kayla made all those excuses for him on the After show and the stupid hosts (looking at you specifically Nessa) just go along with it and act like this is all normal behavior. Like this happens in all homes. No! This is an abusive situation, and Kayla needs to be met with appalled looks at how she just glosses over it all. This is not funny! It’s not some situation you joke about later. Someone is going to get hurt and badly. Not to mention the long term problems abuse will have on the victim as well as the child that has to witness it. This show and its producers need a special place in hell reserved for them for not only serving up domestic violence and child abuse/neglect as entertainment but profiting off it as well. Makes me sick. I think it’s time I stopped contributing to their ratings and stop watching the shows.

Exactly. Same.

Yeah I don’t think I explained myself well. I was trying not to make a blanket statement that all Christians, or really any religious people for that matter, are dangerous or have dangerous ideas just because they adhere to a religion. I think the problem really comes in when people are taught not to question God or their preacher or their bible etc but to just blindly believe. That’s where the danger comes in. Turning a blind eye, ignoring your own gut instincts that something is amiss, stamping down any questions or doubts you may have about something because you believe you’ll go to hell, be damned, etc. That’s one reason Evangelical Christians like Mike Pence and people like the Duggars are so scary. I could definitely see people like them creating a world like Gilead, no question. They’d love it! And the fact that these people have worked so hard to find places in government makes them all the more scary. One thing that makes this show and the book so much scarier and prevalent to the times we are living in now. So alll that to say, I think we’re on the same page, I just worded some things poorly before. I definitely see what you guys are saying and agree with you 100%.

Oh yeah I definitely think they bonded over being the most disliked. I just think Jenelle and Brianna are both ratchet enough to throw down on TV. Or actually it would probably be Jenelle and either Brittany or Roxanne throwing down. I forgot. Briana doesn’t fight any of her own battles. Lol Actually no fighting will probably occur just a lot of lunging at each other as security holds them back. Maybe Roxanne will get in a well placed blow to Jenelle’s head with her flip flop. We can always hope anyway.?

You bring up some really good points. It did take her forever to move on from Adam, and if she hadn’t met Cole, I bet she’d still be in the same boat. I think Chelsea better thank her parents for providing her with a stable upbringing and her dad especially for all the support he gives because I could totally see her being in situation similar to Leah’s if she grew up in a more turbulent home. Some people just have more sensitive personalities and aren’t as resilient as most. I think that’s definitely Chelsea. There’s also those rare people, who will survive and be fine no matter what. They might have dealt with abuse in their childhoods or other unstable upbringings, and while that did affect them, of course, they still are able to move on and live a stable happy life as an adult despite what happened to them. I had a Psychology professor once who called them dandelions. You know since dandelions will and can grow anywhere even through cracks in cement. They’ll survive no matter what. I don’t think they’re are any dandelions in this group though except maybe Kail. Yeah others might feel the pain of her upbringing because of the way she treats them but she will always be ok. Right now she doesn’t have to work hard because of the show but I think she would if she suddenly became broke. Also, I do like that she at least tries to do other things to capatalize on her fleeting fame like the children’s books and the podcast. Kail’s ego is what gets in the way of her having any real success. She thinks she’s a lot more talented and famous than she really is. But yeah Chelsea is one of those really sensitive people. It’s not all bad to be like her. People like her are usually really easy going, are really good to other people, can have really big hearts. Their nature can just be a little on the delicate side so you have to tread carefully with them, and they really, most of all need a stable, good upbringing to be okay in life. Dang, here I go again writing another novel. lol Sorry about that. Lots of stuff making me think. Maybe I should just go try my hand at writing raps/poetry and post it on twitter like Tyler. Get all my thoughts out. Lmao

I don’t think Chelsea’s segments are boring because of her normal, happy life. I’m one of those people that don’t mind and would even welcome seeing someone’s real life that is basically normal and happy. It’s just that we don’t really get to see anything from Chelsea’s real life unless her life only consists of picking up Aubree from school then sitting on the couch discussing Adam until Cole gets home from work where they say hello to each other and then nothing else. Show her working with her animals, going out with friends or Cole to do something fun, show her working on any hobbies she might have like doing makeup, hair etc. The only thing we get to see from Chelsea is her sitting on the couch discussing Adam. I want something more. I know that isn’t all her life consists of. They don’t have to show drama or fighting to make it interesting but they do need to show us something real not staged or scripted. And by scripted, I mean being directed in what to talk about through leading questions by the producers and staged set-ups like having her friend Chelsea Grace come over only for the purpose of having someone to discuss Adam’s latest drama with. Btw, I didn’t mean to sound like I’m attacking you or your opinion by quoting you. I completely understand what you’re saying. I even agree somewhat. I just wanted to explain why some people like myself find Chelsea’s segments boring and would like to see more. Just didn’t want you to take what I was saying wrong. I’m never trying to attack any posters on these boards or their opinions. I know sometimes the intention behind the words can get lost when we can’t see each other face to face. So just know, I never mean to come across as harsh in my replies. I enjoy that there are lots of different points of views expressed here. I just like to throw in my take on things if I find myself with a different opinion. Just wanted to clear that up since I just saw the mod note about not attacking other posters. I love all of you guys! ?

Makes sense. I tend to have a similar dynamic with my child. My child even told me once, “Mom I never needed a dad or even a brother or sister cause I got all of those with you. You act like an older brother sometimes when you annoy the crap out of me, and an older sister because I can come and talk to you about anything and you’re up to date on the latest pop culture, and you’re even like a dad in the way you are always telling those lame dad jokes.” ?I think I was both insulted and felt complimented at the same time. I don’t know if having the friendship dynamic as a parent is the best thing or not. I tend to think that it is. I tend to believe you can be both a parent and a child’s friend but I know many disagree with that. I think that’s why I noticed how Chelsea was with Aubree. I think you have to be careful when you have a child young that you don’t get too into the big sister role and forget to be the parent. It can happen. I noticed it more with my own situation as my child became a teen. Anyway, hindsight is always 20/20. I think Chelsea has a good relationship with Aubree and is a parent to her not just a friend.

I think they are all highly focused on creating a family. I think once you become a mother you often start living for your children. If you are a single parent (I was and am so I have personal insight), then you think you need to find a father for your child and create what society has deemed as the perfect family for them. This can have disastrous consequences when said mother is mentally unstable or just emotionally immature due to being young or just stunted. Our teen moms would most definitely benefit from some long time spent single, no dating at all, and in intense counseling to build their self esteem and learn how to set and achieve goals and provide a life for themselves, one where they can be happy and their kid or kids can be happy even if they never find someone to marry. But our teen moms are a very impulsive group as whole with some high mental instability going on. They want to find their “happy ending”. Which for them means marrying the love of their lives, having more children, and having the family they never had. A lot of them look for unconditional love through having children and trying to find their “soul mate”. They are very unhappy and have a myriad of issues going on but they think if they can just find the perfect man and have a picture perfect family, they will finally be happy and all their issues will disappear. I think this is exactly what is going on with Jenelle, Leah, and even Maci and Chelsea to an extent. I don’t think Chelsea has any real issues though and Maci probably doesn’t have many either imo. Probably why both Chelsea and Maci were able to find mentally healthy, relatively good guys to marry and their lives seem to be more stable. Kail kind of fits this theme too but she’s kind of different as well because she has a temper problem and seems to lack empathy for others as well as her putting her hands on her men. I sometimes think the show made her worse with the instant fame and easy money but she might have ended up the way she is regardless. And Amber is a lot like Kail only worse because she doesn’t even try to take care of her children and she’s way lazier than Kail in regards to keeping her house clean, actually leaving the sofa or the bed etc. Those two are the most alike though, personality wise. I find it interesting too that they both had crazy, alcoholic mothers who cared more about their dick of the month than their child’s needs. Funny how Amber and even Kail have followed in their exact footsteps even though they probably desperately wanted to be nothing like them. Anyway, TLDR: All these people need intense, intense therapy, and not of the Catelynn variety, to break these cycles or we’re gonna see the same patterns playing out with their children in a few years time.

YES! To all of this! I would love to see Chelsea doing something with friends or working on a hobby like her makeup or something, same with Gary & Maci for that matter (although Maci has started to become unlikeable for me so maybe less Maci lol). I don’t really care for hearing about her thoughts on Adam or what he’s up to. We can read about his recent arrests in real time. Rehashing it on the show is just boring and redundant. And to whoever said Chelsea is held to a different standard, I kind of agree. I can see why because she is very likeable and seems to be doing a great job as a mom and wife. But for me, I feel Chelsea should be held to a higher standard but just not in the way that she is. As compared to the other moms on her show, she had the best upbringing of all the teen mom 2 girls and even the teen mom OG girls with the exception of Maci. No abuse or money problems like poverty that we know of, no mental illness, and she has two highly involved parents, one of which is also highly educated. Of all the teen mom 2 girls, I feel she has the least amount of excuses for poor behavior. I’m not excusing the other girls. I’m just saying it is more understandable when we see someone like Leah not be able to finish anything she starts, struggle with addiction, and not know how to have a successful relationship. Someone like Leah’s never seen a stable relationship growing up and doesn’t have the benefit of having a parent with an education and successful career to teach her about goal setting and hard work, etc. These things are almost foreign concepts to someone like Leah. That’s why I don’t think Chelsea is some amazing, inspirational figure but I don’t think anyone else here thinks that either. I think people just like her and respect her for being a good mother and, from what we can see, a good person. I just think she should be held to a higher standard because, I personally, have higher expectations for someone like Chelsea. She does seem happy enough and seems to be doing a good job providing a home for her children, and that’s a wonderful thing. But she should be doing that! She had that kind of life growing up, as far as we know, so she owes it to her kids to at least provide them with the same thing. Now I know that her parents did divorce, and this could have caused her some harm. Maybe why she made some poor choices in hs with Adam and getting pregnant. But I still don’t think her parents’ divorce even compares to the childhoods some of these people have had. And maybe she should be commended for her relationship with Cole. Maybe, in her mind, if she can provide a stable loving relationship for her kids and stay married their entire lives than she will have surpassed even what her parents did for her. I do hope she’s able to do it. I’m just not gonna give her props for taking care of her child and trying to be the best mother she can be because that’s what she should be doing. Idk, sorry for the rambling. I think I was trying to make a point but got lost there somewhere. lol BTW, I love Chelsea. I really like her personality and love her style and even her makeup skills! I wouldn’t mind seeing more from her like in the quoted above. I think some people get annoyed at the love for her because she’s not perfect and sometimes it seems her mistakes are given more understanding like her continuing to stay with Adam over and over until she finally lucked out with Cole than people would give any of the other girls if that makes sense. Anyway, I think there are good points made on both sides. Why I really enjoy the discussions here. Off Topic Note: Happy Mother’s Day to all the PTV mothers! And to Chelsea, Barb, Vee, Kristina, and maybe even Tyler (thought I should add him because he does seem to be the only parent Nova has), some of the real mothers on Teen Mom.

6 months or less sounds good. Oh and who will be watching their various children as the fight goes down? My bet is on Brittany holding Stella but in clear view of the stage, Briana’s mom (for some reason her name has completely escaped my brain) throwing shoes, Barb will have Jace in a safe place away from everything, Ensley won’t even be there as she’ll be with Mama Eason, and poor little Kaiser, hopefully Barb will be able to get him away from it all too. EDIT: AND, they will be rewarded for their behavior as only MTV can do by giving them their own show because this is the world we live in.

So how long before Brianna does or says something to piss off Jenelle or vice versa, and it ends in a knock down drag out fight on stage at a reunion ala Jerry Springer? It’s the only place I can see this “friendship” going.

The reason they don’t mention Christ is because it’s exactly that, a fucked up version of Christianity. The Bible, or really any religious text like it, can be interpreted in so many different ways or passages can be taken out of context and highlighted to take on a whole new meaning than was originally intended. Happens all the time. People will use passages or just lines of texts to suit whatever their agenda is. Christians that truly follow the Bible would never disregard Jesus and his most important rule, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” and “Love your neighbor as yourself”. Unfortunately they’re are a lot of very flawed humans that use religion and fear to control. That’s what can make organized religion so dangerous. Especially when you teach the children never to question God or whatever holy book you are teaching them. Children especially, but also adults should always be taught and encouraged to question everything. After all, if you are someone who believes in a God that created us, then you should believe he/she/they gave us a brain and the freedom of thought with the intention that we would use it.

I think it would depend which commander it is and how much power he has over the others. A lower level commander, yeah baby reassigned maybe and commander and wife punished. A higher up commander with a lot of power? Maybe he could sway the others to believing some lie like that they never had sex. The pregnancy was a true miracle from God! And this is assuming all commanders are not equal. Actually, the more I think about it, I think all the commanders might be on a equal level. And actually scratch what I just wrote. I think any of the commanders that are respected enough by the others might be able to pull off the miracle cover story. But what would probably happen is that the commander in question would end up trying to throw his wife under the bus and say she seduced him with her “evil womanly ways”, and the other commanders would have mercy on him. Actually that’s probably exactly how it would play out. Give those guys an opportunity to stick it to the women around them, and they will.

Dying! ? That’s exactly what I was thinking! Aunt Lydia has infiltrated the forums! On a more serious note, I think I understand what you were trying to say @SWLinPHX. Ann Dowd does do such a masterful job at being the abuser. She actually makes viewers believe she is only abusing everyone for their own good. Standing ovation to her!