[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

Is being able to keep a baby while in prison really a thing that can happen?  Or just in GH-land. 

If Spencer was trying to get custody, then it was odd that he was not present at the legal proceedings to testify or just be there as a party to the action.  GH legal procedure again. 

It might be more interesting if the baby was Spencer's.  The natural drama might be better than the contrivance - why did show have Esme have sex with Nikolas rather then just get pregnant by Spencer.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

Certainly show has gotten more diverse than when it started, when I'm pretty sure all the characters were white.  I remember seeing it on casually after school in the 70s when the nurses still wore white caps and Steve Hardy and Jessie Brewer were there.  I was in school and missed most of the Luke and Laura years, but watched a bit around the time Jackie Templeton was in it.  Their idea of diversity then was an Aussie.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

14 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Count me amongst those mystified at Spencer being allowed to take the baby. (More bad editing, Show, or you're just that lazy to not bother with the legal proceedings that would be involved in that scenario?) And for Spencer to have naming rights? (Seriously, Show, he hasn't adopted this kid yet, has he?) Regardless of how he or anyone feels about Esme, it's beyond petty to not let her name her own kid.

Also, Diane? Didn't Spencer already hire you to help him get the kid? Did you jump ship to take on someone else as your client in this situation? Sure. Nothing unethical about that.

Oy.

I guess I missed the lesson on friendship where it's required to tell your friends everything going on in your life. Good to know Alexis and Joss didn't miss it.

Yes, wasn't Diane representing Spencer?  Then that is not the way you'd tell the client they didn't prevail in the court.  

Almost like they are trolling us to come up with another pregnancy.  Oh well, I guess the two babies have been born now, and so we have to start up another.  Can they think of nothing else?  

Esme going to jail might not even be enough in the real world to terminate parental rights, and so the name is her choice, though GH law may differ.  It is better that Spencer is going to live with Laura and Charlotte.  Laura's the one who the real DCS would be considering as caretaker. 

9 hours ago, Auntie Velvet said:

In retrospect, it would have been funny if Uncle Victor historically refused to call Spencer by his first name, given that it honors a mortal enemy of the Cassadines. He should always address him by one of his seven other names, or give him an alternative, like Stefan always calling Laura "Lasha" or "Masha" or whatever it was.

Luke did a lot of that - "Caroline" and "Natasha."  Because he knew who they really were when everyone else didn't!

On 3/2/2023 at 5:33 PM, YaddaYadda said:

 

I get that FV is fine with his actors doing outside projects, but this story has zero momentum because of it. This thing has already been stretched for too long. Anna shows up on screen every week and half to two weeks, makes out with Valentin, repeats the same line before they both vanish for another week and half to two weeks.  

Maybe a Temp Valentin is in order.  It's gotten routine to do it and it might help.

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

I recall Helena as villain getting very repetitive.  There was that time Stefan kept her prisoner in a bed (paralyzed her somehow) so she did pay sometimes.  

Jerry returned a lot and still could.  

I think the classic example was Todd.  He went onto OLTL as a rapist, everyone liked RH and so they kept him.  But they made efforts to redeem him and did a good job of it, to all accounts.  They never meant him to be a romantic lead, though.  Many regimes later they tried to put him in a romance with his rape victim and I recall the protest at that.  

They did this with Zander, too.  And put the character in a romance with his kidnap victim to boot, having kept him because of their chemistry.  At least it was not a rape.  

Then of course, they have always gotten away with the Luke/Laura rape.  But it was back in the 70s.  They couldn't get away with that today.  

Guza really sucked when it came to women - now it's women's history month, we can raise a glass to the idea he should never come back.  That's why everyone is liking Sonny now as he is not written as the total misogynist he was when Guza wrote GH.  Guze even tried to make it a soap from a man's POV.  I recall reading something where one of his minions actually said that!  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

6 minutes ago, slayer2 said:

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here but I'm not overly fond of it. My point is White Supremacy exists in every facet of society because it's institutional and that is more than the case for tv shows and soap operas like GH in particular. This is by no means a "diverse" show but wrt Trina the show will walk a tough line in how they treat her, which certainly wouldn't been as tough if they had more Black characters, Indigenous characters and Characters  of Colour integrated in the thread of the show sooner. 

One can only opine they are trying to be mindful of the depiction of the Black families on the show (in a way Y and R certainly never has been) however, they will inevitably run into tropes and biases and a lot of that is due to the lack of diversity on the canvas. It's simply odd to drag out a love story for over a year and a half with young actors such as these. On B&B (sadly) they would be married and divorced by now.

As a poster (forgive me I can't recall whom) helpfully pointed out upthread, Trina is the only BIPOC person of her age group on the show and as such she bears the burden of representing all BIPOC groups much like Bonnie on TVD. And similarly to Bonnie on TVD they are giving Trina the same semi-precious treatment. Do I think they are consciously aware of that treatment? Maybe not, but the fact remains it's  anomalous in a soap opera landscape, especially with young actors on 3 year contracts where for one, 2 years has already expired and even more so given that soap operas are, these days, a ticking time bomb anyway. They simply don't have this kind of time to waste, narratively or financially.

Your first sentence convinces that no way is it ever going to be done correctly in your eyes.  But how many black characters should there be?  50%?  If there are 15? that is better than society.  And she is being treated preciously, so that means if it were the opposite that would be OK?  I'm sure not, since the white supremacy is so institutional there is nothing they can do to make it right.  And she does not have to represent all black people - what kind of thing are you saying there?  Good grief, I hope Joss doesn't represent all white people.  TV is well integrated, but you're acting like that is worse than not, since it only gives white supremacy another chance to show itself.  All those black characters are there just to show even more white supremacy?  There's no answer then.

I'm not fond of the permanent victimization view either.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

22 hours ago, slayer2 said:

This exactly! Thank you! They are working overtime to desexualize and infantalize Trina and they were doing it with SM's Trina as well. The fact that she was on the show for 3 years and only had one kiss?

Meanwhile Joss is on to her second sexual partner (even when she was still with her first) it's very disturbing and alarming. They did the same thing with Keesha. A very chaste and boring sexual experience for her and Jason's first time and I'm pretty sure I never saw them have sex again nor did we really see her and AJ be intimate (even though I couldn't stand BW's AJ). The Black girls and women on this show get the side character treatment like no other soap opera I've seen.

fail to understand why FV is perpetuating this harmful stereotype of keeping the Black storylines separate from the White characters and why Trina being on the show for 4 years hasn't had sex and the moment she gets even remotely close she's told to slow down by both her partner and her best friend. The framing is disturbing and while I understand Spencer's reasoning, having Joss echo similar sentiments days later while she is simultaneously screwing the life out of Dex raises a LOT of alarm bells.

Joss had the new boyfriend only because Cam actor wanted fewer hours.  And there's no contest, people are different.  The Spencer and Trina romance makes her more into the romantic heroine than Joss.  As to sex scenes, there certainly would be complaints that the black girl is being made into someone promiscuous whereas the white one is not if the stories were reversed.  Unfairness would be claimed no matter what.  

I counted the black characters and they are slightly more than the proportion of the population.  They have a lot of airtime.  They aren't separated for that reason, but because show is going to the WTD well yet again, which is something they do regardless.  Joss and Trina are best friends so there is no separation there.  Molly is with TJ for years, granted they are back burners, but they are together for years and no character makes issues about it.  All black characters are professionals and they don't want white characters to be racist, so the soap planet has an ideal equality going - the real world doesn't, but the soap planet is another world.

20 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Oh they definitely do recruit law grads into law enforcement agencies … but going in the opposite direction (appointing a spy / former police commissioner with no law degree, court room experience, etc. as DA) is a big LOL.  

Granted this is no less insane than other choices they make on soaps but since I am an attorney it’s hilarious.  It’s like making him a doctor overnight and also putting him in charge of the other doctors in the hospital.

Robert Scorpio has always looked good in suits, so on a shallow level it works I guess 🤷🏻‍♀️

Soap characters are always ready to pick up whatever job the writers want.  Liz went to quick nursing school, Willow is making it through fast, Pip would have been a doctor fast.  SLS can run a huge company right out of high school.  Molly is finished with law school in her early twenties, when one who goes straight through is 25 by the time they are finished.  I guess she passed the bar exam off screen with no issues.  Same with Robert!

20 hours ago, tessaray said:

I just assumed it was revealed that Robert had graduated law school before being recruited into the WSB but he was offscreen so many times, he could have gone at any point.

It is actually a good spot for him. 

Like Heather, who had a lot of offscreen time to have more babies.  Who knows what else Robert did with his time, lol. 

19 hours ago, slayer2 said:

Yes Curtis, because what Trina REALLY needs right now is for you to trauma dump all over her. Throw the whole "father" away.

This scene needed to be saved for when they knew he was the biological father - get the DNA test first, nitwits.  Maybe it's a sign the writers responded to #keepTrinaTaggert's so this scene can only be relevant before the reveal.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

My sister and I would be watching and  my nephew would come in and see it and ask if Sonny had gotten his comeuppance yet.  He must have seen enough to know that would be the natural story point.

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

4 hours ago, nilyank said:

Well on Port Charles the soap, we were introduced to his long lost daughter Livvie Locke who was played by Kelly Monaco.

Cue Sam's twin arriving in PC!  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

28 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Everyone related to Ryan though he only has Kevin since neither have bio kids as far as we know.  

 

It is a miracle that Kevin has been on the show this long and no kids have popped up.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

The stuff about the actor being fired makes me think that they were not going to write Nikolas off but then had to change course to write him off for a while.  Naturally he had to "die," not just disappear for a time.  These writers make it harder for themselves, or choose to make things more absurd, figuring that is more entertaining than something more realistic.  

It is a bit refreshing that there is no baby switch.  Two pregnancies at the same time nearly always signaled that.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

Sonny said the baby was in the NICU.  Why would she have been there?  She is a very healthy baby.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

3 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I agree with this.  Yes, she’s still the same person and her parents are still the ones that raised her regardless of biology.  But it’s still a huge shock, and it does change things, at least in the moment.  I’m 43 years old but if I found out my father wasn’t actually my bio dad and I had another “dad” out there, it would rock my world even at this age.

It would rock our worlds, though I 'm not sure about Soapland.  You have many who have that in common with you.  Though at that old an age, it would be worse than it was for Spencer, Maxie's oldest child, Bailey Lou and Michael, too young to be all that aware of it.  Though Michael might have been old enough to realize and be affected.  Then there is Charlotte, old enough to meet her mother for the first time and recall that.  

Then Jake, and Aiden, Wylie, Rocco, TJ (he could be the most sympathetic as wasn't he at least a teen when he found out?), Franco, and I think that was his mother, too.  Cody.  And Esme is about to find out, though I guess she at least knew her adoptive parents were adoptive.  

LOL.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

 

On 2/17/2023 at 12:02 PM, ciarra said:

Stealing a kidney = okay.  Lying, not. 

Isn't he also laundering Selina's mob money through the club?

 

 

And he's not telling them about it, which on show = lying.  While he was mad at Jordan for not telling something having to do with her job.  I don't remember what it was she kept from him, lol.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

It's been good not to have the Carlys on - sometimes it seems like whoever appears in the credits is on that day, and I saw SLS in them.  But not on!  Good. 

Marcus of course is the real father here.  I get where Portia was coming from.  In that situation, there's nothing to say there was any way for her to know that Curtis would never abandon his child.  Does Curtis even know for sure he'd have felt that way back then?  He hasn't had any other kids in the past 20 years, too, so how interested could he have been in it?  

What did I just say?  Very dumb.  LOL other children of Curtis besides Trina may well pop up in PC in the future.  He could even be withholding that information right now.  

Mac threatening Ryan that he would kill him made me wonder how many times he or others have killed Ryan before, LOL.  

2 minutes ago, Artsda said:

ITA, he has a mob gambling hall going on in his club and hasn't said a word to Portia the danger it could bring. Stella is another one, she kept Marshall alive a lie for how long, plus her divorce papers hiding she's still lying about. But her and Jordan is all about truth and what's right when it comes to Portia's business. 

Trina's going to hate her mother forever and attack her where as Michael forgive's Carly in minutes because she's Carly. Portia's dragged all over town by people who have no right attacking her.

Being an aunt, I would never get involved in a nephew or niece's life as much as Stella does.  But then is that an anvil that she knows she is Curtis' mother?  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

I think leaving the paternity thing alone should be an option, given the baby is grown up and both men must have had some awareness and Taggart especially being OK with going on as is.  Stella acting like that deprives Portia of that option. It's not really her business and it's not a lie like one of them is still married that could justify getting oneself involved.  It's a soap, so it has to come out, though.  

It is one instance where both fathers are alive and on stage, so that could be interesting.  I can't think of where it happened before - there was a time Carly had both mothers, but they killed Virginia off quickly.   TJ's other father is dead so far.  

 

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

Stella is just dumb.  She should have just gone and officiated.  Her not going raises a lot of red flags.  Spencer's point was a general one, so it had nothing to do with intruding into the family matter.  Trying not to tell Trina when it was obvious there was something to tell - just dumb.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

I’m probably in the minority in that I hope Curtis is Trina’s dad - not because I dislike Taggart but mostly because I want there to have been a point to this dragged out story and all these confrontations and conversations we’ve witnessed for months! If GH pulls another Finn/Chase/Gregory, I will wonder why we wasted so much time on what turned out to be an inconsequential secret. Gregory and Chase were mad for two seconds and then they were all breaking bread with each other. That was boring. I was greatly disappointed in the “fallout” of that story especially since it was teased for years. 

I just need there to be some point to these stories. Stupidly, I still have a small sliver of hope that this will lead to some good reactions and some drama - something GH is sorely lacking nowadays. I watch for drama. And I know we could get the drama now with just the possibility being revealed but I see it as a cop out if they don’t proceed with  what they set up! 

Plus, Trina is 20-years old. Taggart will always be her dad. I don’t see anything changing in that relationship so that doesn’t worry me. I also hate Portia and Curtis so I need to see their worlds rocked and shattered! 🤣🤣🤣

IMO, the better story is for Curtis to be the dad. That will give all these months and setup a purpose; otherwise, I will wonder why time was even wasted on this arc. Other stories could have been told. 

It does seem overdone when Trina is raised.  How is it going to make a difference?  It's one of those things that should stay secret.  It might be nice for Curtis, but for Trina it could be an extra burden, and for Marcus too.

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:43 AM, Mirabelle said:

I will forever be mad they killed off Georgie. I wasn't a fan of Natalia Livingston's Emily either but they should never had killed off that character either. This show is allergic to writing off a character with "Got a better job offer/hate this town/going to college across the country" and instead just likes to murder them. If TPTB didn't want those characters around any more, they could have just send them away. V has been on a cruise for the past years!

 

I've watched a few Down-Under Soaps - Home and Away, Neighbors, Shortland Street.  They are way way better at not killing characters.  They go off to the US or Japan to study.  They get mentioned later.  And few of them ever come back, even.  The US ones know they will want them back and then have to bring them back from the dead.  So silly.  

Loved V, one of the many characters they wasted for stupid reasons.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

On 1/17/2023 at 2:59 PM, Fellaway said:

 

Michael, I don't know what it says about Nina that Willow, that most generous and open-hearted person, thinks Nina is the absolute worst humanity has to offer yet Carly and Sonny are as naught, but I know what is says about Willow.

 

And Willow is so forgiving.  She forgave Carly right away.  And maybe Harmony.  But not Nina.  

And then she deprives Wylie of the grandmother he loves.  Not much can be worse than that in real Family Court.  The judge might have held that Nina could not have visitation because parental rights are strongly favored, but generally would have given the parents a lecture on how bad this is for a child.  It's not in the child's best interests.  

It's strange how show manages to make her unsympathetic, no matter how much they pile onto Willow.  Merely making someone a sufferer doesn't do it, strangely enough. 

On 1/17/2023 at 3:27 PM, RedElf said:

But on All My Children, Travis and Barbara literally had sex so they could have a baby to serve as a bone marrow donor for their daughter Molly.  Fans literally called the baby Bone Marrow Donor Montgomery.

I think I recall a true life case of this.  A couple having a child because the child could donate something.  The ethics of this were discussed.  

 

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

On 1/11/2023 at 5:25 PM, statsgirl said:

I thought that it was really too much, more even than Willow learning about her own cancer. And it was mostly about how Michael shouldn't have to go through what she went through, not how it will be for Wylie to lose a mother (for the second time but Nelle who?). Making it about her, Carly Jr.

If knowing that someone else has cancer brings up this much grief, she really needs to see a therapy.

Wylie may not remember but he could be affected by loss of his mother, his two dads and then the mother he remembers.  

On 1/11/2023 at 5:27 PM, ffwbe said:

I think it’s just being Joss self involved and she tends to make everything about herself. I’ve noticed she has the biggest reactions to things quite a bit when she is far from the person most affected

Show probably wanted to make her look like a nice, caring person who was sad for other people.  

18 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

 

I know I'm supposed to have all the feelings about Willow, but I don't. This story has been written so stupidly. She refuses early treatment, she doesn't want to tell everyone she's sick, and now she's paying the price. I'm supposed to find sympathy for this nitwit? 

 

The Cam/Elizabeth talk was nice. I like that she pointed out there was rarely one reason a couple breaks up.

 

Overprotective of Wiley and then doing one of the worst things people can do to a kid, by telling the kid that someone he loves is a bad person.  Cutting Wiley off from Nina because of Nina's actions regarding other people is alienation that is roundly condemned now.  We're supposed to hand wave it due to Willow's cancer and nightmare.  As someone who has a family member whose every bad action is hand waved due to an unfortunate health issue (not cancer), I know the damage this can do.  

At first Cam being in denial seemed dumb - you've got to tell Mom you and your girlfriend are broken up, dummy.  Glad he finally did.  And Elizabeth's experience and relating to him was good.  I just hope as some of the posters have said, that they don't make Cam the bad guy when he finds out about Dex.

17 hours ago, statsgirl said:

 

Because if you're not her friend, she'll stab you in the back.

Imagine being her friend - why would everyone want to be friends with someone who has constant drama and the friendship is all about her?  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

13 hours ago, Sake614 said:

For a doctor, Finn is pretty stupid. He finds prenatal vitamins at wyndemere. Then he sees Liz with them. Immediately jumps to the conclusion that they’re hers and now that Esme shows up pregnant with Nick’s kid, he still thinks Liz had a miscarriage?🙄

 

I still don't understand why Liz claimed she was pregnant by Nikolas.  Maybe to explain that he has a child and Esme is gone and no one knew she was ever pregnant?  Was Liz going to use the pillow?  Why do all that for Nikolas?  Then why the miscarriage?  

There are always two pregnancies so of course there is yet another switch.  At least the Bailey Lou story involved no tock but a pillow pregnancy.  And the "mothers" cooperated on it rather than having it secret from them.  It was the fathers who got screwed over, but one of them being Peter, no one cares. 

They do go to that well too often.  It's like the writers can't think of anything new, or are told any ideas they have won't work, or it is written by a computer formula or a roomful of monkeys. 

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

On 1/5/2023 at 9:25 PM, jsbt said:

Sure, but it can be six of one, half a dozen of the other. Plenty of young stars on soaps have made that call but the show has worked with it, be they on contract or off, to continue to give them A-story as leads. I believe they did it with Kimberly McCullough for awhile. If the character and performer is a priority it can work.

I remember; it was a summer job for a few years.  She and the character were at college all year and she was back each summer to play Robin's summer in PC.  

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

14 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Oh. My. God. Did we really need a fan blowing back Blaze and Chase's hair during their monumentally cheesy song. 🤮 

The songs are always dumb, but I guess that is cheaper than buying good songs.  One sort of has to pretend along with them.

They have done too many rounds of Joss and Dex.  It feels like the story should move on, with Cam finding out.  Soap law requires that Cam find out first - that's why she is putting off the breakup.  It would be great if Cam were more relieved than angry.

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

On 12/13/2022 at 9:00 PM, ffwbe said:

They stole that from GH Twitter. I remember a ton of complaints about their earlier scenes and how he was talking down to her. That Ted Talk comment was definitely from there. It was just weird to include it now because they’re attempting to course correct scenes that happened months ago. They barely share scenes and the ones they had the past 3 months didn’t have the same vibe. 

IMO the writers should come up with their own story rather than letting online be an influence.  It's a highly self selected minority of people.  No wonder the writing sucks and the ratings have gone down.  Someone's always going to kvetch online about something and the audience that does not go online is likely to be bigger.

[Episode Discussion II: The TFGH]

12 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Spencer, you're an idiot, too. If you think Trina looked happy with Rory, you don't know her at all. Also, your mega pity party is boring.

Cassidines supposedly never give up, but Spencer assumes Trina is into Rory with no evidence at all.  They've overplayed the Spencer-likes-Trina-but-won't- tell-her for too long.  

12 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Good GOD, Elizabeth! What’s wrong with her? That Finn couldn’t see that she was obviously lying speaks volumes about his stupidity. But that’s nothing compared to what Elizabeth is doing.

I thought they were going for a baby switch, which happens when two characters are pregnant at once.  Putting Liz in there - I suppose Liz and Nik will then claim to be the parents of Esme's baby.