stillsearching74

16

16

5 too

Yes!!!

I feel like I need to channel my inner Rory and do a pro/con list for each episode to help me determine what to vote against! These are all such great hours of television.

Am I the only one who fast forwards through that whole section of ADFKT?! I usually like Lorelai and can understand her perspective, but those scenes are just embarrassing! My vote: 16. It's weird, but I just had higher expectations of LL. And I'm kind of an anti-Logan person, so that contributes to why I love that one a little less than the other episodes in that list. I didn't think most people loved either of these episodes as much as I do, so I'm very excited to see them here! These are both on my "desert island" list.

@Katy M, that settles it, my new goal is to write a Kirk/Lulu ficlet in your honor!

Hi to all of you who still love talking about GG as much as I do! I'm not sure this is the right place to ask, but I wanted to know what people's favorite and not favorite seasons are? My order is 2, 4, 1, 3, 7, 5, 6, AYITL. 2 is almost perfect, 4 is a little slower in places but the kind of season that gets better and better with rewatches and I love the buildup to Lorelai and Sookie finally opening their own inn, 1 is so sweet and charming but I hate Max and Lorelai is too cutesy and childlike this season, 3 had some of the best episodes and scenes but is dragged down by the school politics stuff, Luke and Nicole's relationship, the love triangle, Dean and Jess continuing to have testosterone-fueled showdowns even when that love triangle was supposedly resolved, Lorelai returning to Max for about 12 minutes, and more. Season 7 is like a different show but a more likable, less irritating one than what GG was through a lot of season 5 and 6 to me,. Obviously the Marty thing and a lot of how the Christopher storyline was executed was just terrible. I'll stop now because this might not even be the place where I'm supposed to ask this question!

I think it's from That'll Do Pig? I have so many GG pics on my computer, so this game is perfect for me! I'll post one in case anyone is still around and might want to play. Provided I can figure out how to post pictures here.

16, but it seems like a random write in vote that will make no difference in the outcome of this election! :-) Sending hugs of gratitude to whoever invented and helps to run this game. I wish I had found it years ago!

That's one major reason why I didn't like Rogan. Rory just didn't seem like herself. Her real self, which I agree she had trouble identifying and embracing throughout the series, as evidenced by how she seemed to change depending on who she was dating and which stronger personalities she happened to be around. People can argue that Rogan did bring out her real self and it was just not the self I personally wanted to see. And I'm not holding Logan responsible for Rory's choices (stealing a yacht and dropping out of Yale because you're criticized, Rory? Seriously?!?!) or the fact that she's such a chameleon, but the bottom line was that Rory seemed like a different person to me while she was with him, and it's not a person I related to or found likable. Even before doubling down on the 'Logan is Rory's Christopher' thing, which unlike a lot of people here I do see some merit to, ASP said something about how Rogan is more of a charming, fun adventure and that they don't exactly have deep conversations. Not exactly what you need from a lifelong partner. That's part of why I mentioned that their relationship felt like a way through which Rory was escaping her real self rather than discovering it. I wanted to reiterate that I respect that so many people disagree. It's great if you ship Rogan, or if you're with me on shipping literati, or you don't like any of the partners for Rory. It's even great if you happen to ship Rory/Dean! In the end, all the many different perceptions and opinions are what makes being a fan such an interesting and often eye opening experience for me. There are more substantive reasons to love or dislike Logan, but a very shallow one mentioned awhile back has really stuck with me: that nearly indelible smirk. Is it supposed to be charming? Because to me it comes across as so smug, arrogant and smarmy, and like someone else said makes it harder for me to believe he's ever being fully sincere regardless of what he happens to be saying at the time. I can't even find Logan as handsome as most do because of that smirk. I also wanted to mention that Kirk is incredibly annoying and there was way too much of him, but that Lulu was awesome. Maybe it's just that I think she must be some sort of saint for putting up with Kirk's Kirk-ness!

*cracks knuckles and dons kevlar vest* I still love this this show. It's deeply imperfect but the first four seasons are still on balance my favorite seasons of any show. Speaking of things that are deeply imperfect but still perennial favorites: I still love Rory, Jess and Rory/Jess. They are among the two or three fictional couples who I actually believe are soulmates despite usually claiming I don't even believe in soulmates. There are approximately two million very legitimate reasons why people may dislike him, her or them or just feel like that ship has long since sailed ("it's in Fiji by now!"), and I'll acknowledge the validity of those arguments while still loving them with all of my crazy heart. I enjoy Luke and I appreciate Lorelai a lot as a character even though she drives me crazy, but I only ship them romantically in the show's first season. That's when I saw them as most compatible and with the most romantic chemistry. I sometimes think I'd still ship them if they'd gotten together then, though another part of me suspects Amy Sherman-Palladino might have ruined them even more as a couple if she'd had her full six seasons to do it rather than just S5 and S6. As it is, I am mostly indifferent to them. The arguments about why Logan is a great character and decent guy are compelling, and some of them convinced me to reevaluate my own biases against him. But here's the thing: I still just don't like him. I probably should, but I don't. He always comes off like a condescending, smug, slick, slightly slimy guy to me. He and Rory sometimes had what I guess is a decent (decent by Gilmore Girls' low standards) relationship, but I just never bought into it. I feel like with Logan and his world she was escaping who she really is rather than discovering it. She didn't often seem fully happy and comfortable to me, though whether that's a result of the writing or AB's limitations as an actress remains a mystery. (I'll admit that one of the reasons Rory/Jess seem so believably, naturally connected to me probably has to do with Milo and Alexis being in love in real life, so AB didn't have to stretch as much as she did around Jared or Matt). I hope to be a part of this community so want to stress that I do understand why many love Logan/Rogan. I just can't help disliking him and most of their scenes together - it's a visceral reaction, and not actually one that has anything to do with Logan's wealth and status. It's like real life people - some characters and relationships just elicit a positive response, investment and/or affection in us and others provoke just the opposite even if we know rationally that they're not all that bad. Logan/Rogan are in the latter category for me. And I despise the Life and Death Brigade. I don't think they're lighthearted, surreal and quirky fun like we're supposed to. Their antics don't entertain me. Their classroom prank in Pushkin wasn't even a little bit clever or funny, and the fact that they're still like this as adults in the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad revival is seriously embarrassing rather than charming to me. They're just entitled, annoying, obnoxious and gross. I truly do not feel that way because they happen to be wealthy. I grew up around some people who were very wealthy and others who were very much not and, unlike Amy Sherman Palldino apparently does, I don't believe that socioeconomic status is the chief or even extremely significant factor in determining someone's behavior and personality, so I don't usually make those kind of sweeping generalizations. But regardless of money and ASP's often strange ideas about class in contemporary America, I just hate the Life and Death Brigade characters and am with the people who don't think it's in character for Rory to enjoy being around them for even one night, let alone three years and apparently on and off in her adult life too. That doesn't mean I think we should have watched Rory sit alone in her room with a book for the final three seasons of the show, but there are lots of interesting, entertaining ways to show her becoming more adventurous, daring and experimental without making her suddenly and inexplicably enchanted by exactly the sort of obnoxious, shallow jerks she always hated. The only time I even sort of liked Rogan was in Season 7, which is not coincidentally when ASP wasn't even writing them. Speaking of season 7, I think it's nowhere near up to par with the show's first four seasons but better than most of season 5 and 6 and light years ahead of that revival, which I'm still trying to erase from my memory. Season 1 would have been a lot better to me if Max hadn't been in it. I even prefer Rory/Dean to Lorelai/Max, which I know makes little sense. If unwritten but strictly enforced TV rules didn't mandate that Luke/Lorelai had to get together and if Jason had been written as a truly viable option rather than clear cannon fodder from the get go, I think Jason was definitely the best match for Lorelai. Lane is awesome, but her band is the worst. The only one I like as a character is Brian, and their music is an argument for why some wise and compassionate person invented the mute button. Someone above mentioned that they're the only person left who still cares about and relates to Rory Gilmore despite the revival (and last three seasons of the original series?), so I wanted to assure him/her that there are two of us!

So I'm starting another rewatch from the very beginning, which is the closest I will get to having a productive summer project! Most pilots feel too exposition-laden or just otherwise off to me, but I was surprised to remember how much I love Frasier's pilot. It's such a great introduction to these characters, themes and the show's witty dialogue. And when Martin calls into the radio station at the end and he and Frasier have their moment of connection and understanding, I always seem to mysteriously get something in my eye. By the way, I love how this first episode featured Frasier saying how he wished his father had thanked him, and in the series finale all those years later, Martin's final (close to final?!) line is "Thank you, Frasier" as he hugs him. And now something seems to be in my eye again.

Those are literally the only episodes I always skip when I rewatch! Other than Lilith's appearances, most of which I love, the episodes where we get visits from the Cheers people just feel so forced and awkward, and none of them really seem to belong on Frasier.

I'd almost forgotten how much I loved this show! A few weeks ago, I was telling someone how I think something is wrong with me for not finding most acclaimed recent sitcoms (Parks and Rec, B99 and most others) remotely funny, and he made some remark about how I'll just never let myself open my heart to another comedy like I did Frasier. :) This inspired a rewatch, and I've been in TV heaven ever since. The first five or six seasons of this show are some of my favorite TV ever made, and unlike some other shows I used to love, there's a timeless quality that makes most of it just as funny and relevant to me now as it was then. Like others here, for me it's really the brothers' relationship with each other and Martin that gives the show most of its humor and heart. I don't care much about their love lives, though I really liked Niles/Daphne until they got together. I agree that Daphne seemed like a more angry, depressive person the second half of the show, though I really love her for the first few seasons. Niles' disastrous marriage to Maris and the stories that came from it was darkly hilarious and sometimes touching. But the sad truth is that I could just watch Frasier, Niles and Martin interacting with almost no one other than each other and love every minute of it! I love Niles even more than I love Frasier, but I do love Frasier - which is funny considering I didn't much care for him on Cheers. (Or really anyone on Cheers, which is why I stopped watching it!) As for favorite seasons in order: 2, 3, 1, 5, 4, 6, 7, 11, 9, 10, 8, but it's very hard to pick, especially since the first 5-6 are all more or less tied for me. Favorite epsiodes? It's impossible for me to narrow down, but you all are right that the holiday ones tend to be true classics! I love that I'm not the only person who still loves and treasures this show.

The humor on this show is too silly, goofy and just not funny for me, but everyone's taste in comedy is different. I spend almost every Wednesday with someone who loves it, so I end up watching a lot of the episodes. And with nearly every other character I feel like, okay, they don't click for me but I can see why others enjoy them, but I wanted to ask you all: what is the appeal of Gina? I'm asking with total respect, just genuine curiosity. She's just unbearable to me, conceited with so little reason to be, rude and obnoxious in ways that aren't even the slightest bit funny. She constantly "wins" without trying, caring or even acting like a halfway decent person. She talks like she just swallowed a whole bottle of quaaludes. And now she's reproducing? And of course the guy is sweet, handsome, affectionate and madly in love with her despite the fact that she's gross both inside and out. Even people I know who love this show think Gina is the worst and wish she had died or at least magically acquired a whole new personality when hit by that bus, so I told my boyfriend I'd come to this site full of the smartest, most insightful TV fans on the internet to find out what people love about her. Thank you to anyone who replies!

Best: This show in general, which is still one of my very favorite things in the world, one of the only sitcoms I've ever loved, and a show I will always be more obsessed with than any people who don't care enough to post on sites like this one could ever understand! Seasons in order of how much I love them right now even though it frequently changes! 4, 1/2 (I count them as one because S1 is so short!), 5, 3, 7, 9, 6, 8. Favorite characters in no logical order: Pam, Michael, Stanley, Toby, Holly. Favorite relationships, romantic and platonic: Jim/Pam (Despite what I say about Jim below), Michael/Holly, Michael/Pam, Michael/Dwight, Michael/Ryan. Making my own category here :): Understandably popular character I used to love but now don't: Jim. I made the mistake of reading a couple of articles on how Jim is actually a terrible human being, and while I didn't agree with every point, enough of it resonated with me to the point where I now can't NOT see it when I watch the show. (And it's not like he's supposed to be awful like Michael, Dwight, Angela, etc---he's supposed to be the likable 'everyman', which makes it worse because the show rarely acknowledges how problematic he is). The way he mocks and seems to sincerely feel so superior to everyone in the office, has no remote interest in anything outside of Pam until the random sports thing at the end of the series, and is just smug and mean sometimes just make it hard for me to root for him. I still love Jim and Pam as a couple, but Jim, who was my ultimate fictional crush when the show first aired, is no longer someone I'm too invested in. Things I'd change about the show: Aspects of Jim's characterization (see above), giving Pam a close female friendship maybe with Holly or more likely a character who exists only in my head rather than on the show, a lot of what was done after Michael left the show. Unpopular opinions - I really love Holly and Michael/Holly more than anyone else I know! I love season 4 even more than S1-S3 and love S5 a lot. I don't love Jim for reasons I mentioned. Angela could be funny but I disliked her so much at times and wanted Dwight to move on. I love Pam despite her weaknesses. And speaking of loving people despite their weaknesses, Michael Scott is to me one of the greatet TV characters ever created! The Michael/Jan relationship gave me some of the funniest and most memorable moments of the show, so even though I understand why many dislike it, I'll always be grateful for it. One more: I really like the pilot - it hooked me on the show, and it was only later that I learned most dislike it. 10 desert island episodes: Diversity Day, The Injury, Dwight's Speech, The Job, Fun Run, The Deposition, Dinner Party, Stress Relief, Cafe Disco, Goodbye Michael Love this show and love everyone who still cares enough to post about it!

I can't believe I missed this show during its original run. It's so clever, sharp, insightful and one of the very few sitcoms that I find genuinely funny! It takes me awhile to watch every episode because I keep rewinding to hear all the rapid fire jokes I'm worried I'm missing.

I just thought of another one (this thread is addictive and should come with a warning label): On Smallville, I liked Clark with Chloe so much more than with either Lana or Lois. I even think that Chloe's presence on Smallville rendered Lois unnecessary, as the characters were so similar other than Lois being more arrogant and obnoxious. She also sincerely seemed to think Clark was beneath her, especially before she found out he also happened to be a superhero. I know it's ridiculous to watch any version of Superman and hold out hope that Superman will end up with anyone other than Lois Lane, but I loved SV's Chloe and hated their version of Lois so much that I couldn't help wishing this would be the one version of the tale that went in another direction. (Spoiler alert: they didn't!) I also liked Lana a lot more with Lex than I did with Clark.

Very unpopular opinion about Angel (the series), but I love Fred/Gunn as a couple, both what they were and could have been, and far preferred them to Fred/Wesley.

The more I rewatch, the more I'm reversing my original anti-Fred stance. She's really starting to grow on me. And my UO is that for me Fred/Gunn > Fred/Wesley---by a lot! I'm not sure how unpopular this is, but S3 is my favorite season of the series. I have a lot of ambivalence towards Wesley. Sometimes I find his development among the more interesting aspects of the series. Other times I can't stand him and think I'd enjoy the show more without him on it, especially post-S2 :) I'm so happy that people still care enough about BtVS and AtS to post about them!

And the 15 episodes I would bring with me to a desert island, especially if no one else was on the island to make fun of my strange taste in episodes: 1. Dead Man Dating 2. The Truth is Out There 3. The Wendigo 4. That 70s Episode 5. Morality Bites 6. Pardon My Past 7. Ex Libris 8. Chick Flick 9. Sin Fransisco 10. Brain Drain 11. Long Live the Queen 12. Sympathy for the Demon 13. Centennial Charmed 14. The Day the Magic Died 15 Forever Charmed I'm sure I left out about 40 of my favorites, but I tried to limit myself!

Which episodes make you all smile and laugh the most? Some of mine are The Truth is Out There, Chick Flck, Once Upon a Time, Sin Fransisco, Lost and Bound (the Phoebe-as-Stepford-wife parts), and Witchstock.

@Esmeralda, I definitely agree that Piper was really likable in S5, probably more so for me than any season other than the first. I wonder why that is? She was more of the more emotional, sweetly soft Piper I love but also tough and protective. She was a little further past her grieving by then, so she wasn't as bitter and angry as she was during a lot of S4, but she was also more focused on important issues - getting rid of the then dark and insane Cole and helping Phoebe get past it, her pregnancy and protecting her magical infant - than the comparatively petty stuff they had her fretting about in S2 and S3 like which guy she should finally choose, why her wedding can't be more perfect, and how she and Leo can't honeymoon like "normal" couples. As others have noted, Piper is actually a very deep, complex character, an unusual mixture of extreme sensitivity and traditionally "feminine" interests and traits balanced by a protective, jaded cynicism and action-oriented, take -no -prisoners toughness. S5 allowed us to see all those facets of her character. I didn't really enjoy the last five or six episodes of S5, but before that there's a lot I love about it - even though this is when Phoebe starts to feel unrecognizable to me, an entirely different character who I don't especially connect with or even like. Our lists have some other similarities, @Esmeralda, including that Paige never earned the dubious distinction of being our least favorite in any season and that we, along with a lot of the fanbase, loved Phoebe far more during the first two seasons than at any time afterwards! I wonder why it feels more natural and instinctive for me to write from the perspective of either Piper or Phoebe than Paige. At their worst, Piper and Phoebe both bother me far more than Paige did, but in my deliberately deluded mind, Piper and Phoebe are still the characters I initially loved, and those characters are clearer and more distinct in my mind than Paige ever was. As much as I like and often love Paige, she didn't capture my heart or my interest quite as much as Piper and Phobe at their peak---or at least Piper and Phoebe as I inisist on seeing them. :) Like others observed, I think some of it has to do with how much more clearly and deeply defined the sisters' roles and dynamics were during the Prue years than when Paige came on the scene. My interest was piqued not just by them individually but how they all functioned as a unit, bringing out each sister's very different skills and strengths and better balancing out one another's flaws.

Thanks so much for the encouragement! I'm already doubting myself and in dire need of it :) I have this oddly vivid idea of exactly what Mark is like, and it's kind of a relief that he wasn't around long enough in canon for the writers to contradict my (mostly unfounded) perceptions of him. In some ways, the less we know about the characters in canon, the easier it is for me to write for them---as counterintuitive as that sounds!