CluelessDrifter

As a follow up on the Mark post from December.

Yeah, Swan Song used to annoy me, mostly, because I think the green army man being there after Dean had to rebuild the Impala after the crash in season 1 was a little too . . . I wouldn't say it's a retcon the way I used to think, more like Dean made sure to get every detail right, which is why it worked to break through to Sam? I think that with time, though, I can appreciate the complexities of that original story arc more. For instance, the criss-crossing of Sam and Dean's storylines. The brother who started the series as a hunter, never got a chance to explore anything beyond that, believes that hunting is all there is for him, and in season 2 sold his soul so that his brother could live, is the brother who slowly allows himself to want more than hunting, is eventually the one who gets to have it, although, at a terrible price, and has to learn to let his brother go, which he does. This is in contrast with Sam's story, as Sam goes from being the one who wants to live a normal life, estranges himself from his family, and achieves his slice of normal for a while to sacrificing himself to save his brother and the world. That is a poetic story. Saving the world by locking Lucifer away is a satisfying ending for our heroes - tragic, but satisfying, because it held real meaning.

So, how are people feeling about this episode now with time from both it and the series finale?

No, that isn't canon. It's behind the scenes and doesn't change what's shown, particularly when there's nothing shown to support that as the undisputed answer to the question.

I don't go based off of what's outside of canon as an explanation for things on any show I watch. Sure, I read them, but it doesn't change what we're shown, and from what we're shown, it appears to be intentionally ambiguous, the same way that the oranges are, so we'll question if it's there because of real world reasons or supernatural, and there are no real wrong answers.

Yes, that was my interpretation too, and Danvers, who has never really been shown to see a spirit, doesn't act as if she sees her there.

Navarro's Mom loved oranges. It was there to raise the question 'are Navarro's family all really mentally ill, or is there something to the veil being the thinnest in Ennis?' The crystallised mark on the floor was left behind by the tongue. Who left her tongue is not clear. All we know for sure is who it wasn't. It wasn't the scientists. The cleaning ladies were pretty honest throughout their storytelling, but denied doing anything with the tongue. Realistically, they're the only ones who had access to Tsalal and could have put it there before the delivery driver found it at the start, and if they got the cremation tech to keep a piece of Annie that may have been cut out but that was never mentioned as having been missing, they could have frozen it for use at a later date, and then left it as a clue to connect the two crimes and lead police in the direction it did to solve Annie's murder. They had means and opportunity for the tongue, but the motive is a bit shaky as their primary objective seemed to be justice for Annie, they'd already found the perpetrators of Annie's murder, and got their own justice, so why draw the police on them? That brings in the option of either the man who most likely cut her tongue out - Hank - holding onto it and putting it there, which doesn't make sense from a motive, or opportunity stand point, considering he wouldn't have wanted the two cases connected as a clean up operator to the event, and he had no opportunity to put the tongue there before the delivery driver saw the place was abandoned, or it could be the supernatural. Did Annie leave it there so that the truth of her death would be found? That did ultimately lead to the shutting down of the company that was killing the people in the town, which was her primary goal. Holden and his father were in a car accident most likely due to a drunk driver. There's the way Danvers reacts to the drunk driver in episode 1, and then there's the one time Danvers is shown driving drunk herself and sees the polar bear, which brings me to my next point. I think that the living polar bear (through the stuffed polar bear) was a pretty strong metaphor for her son along with other references to people losing their left eye, so if we put those together, then we can kind of get a picture of what happened.

Except even in Shadow, the episode you mean, she straddles Dean first when they're tied up

Or at least a show bible

What he said was that she was a smart girl, because if she hadn't left, he was going to kill her. Then he added that he wouldn't have done it before letting Cas have an hour with her first. It was to poke fun at Cas for what happened earlier in the episode more than it was meant to be at her expense, particularly with the compliment for Meg at the start. What I find to be a more compelling discussion is that this was another episode in a running theme throughout the show where sexual violence is used against Dean. We see it time and time and time again. In this particular episode, it's with Meg when she straddles him while he's bound to a chair, threatens to cut his throat, calls it foreplay, and tells him to satisfy her or she'll please herself. While it's an interrogation, the undertones are obvious, and how is it treated in-show? Sam laughs. Does Sam have instances where he's in a similar situation? Occasionally, but it is far more prevalent with Dean and is quite often either never addressed or becomes a joke.

A Big Foot is the closest to a Yeti (Abominable Snowman). Wendigos are essentially insatiable cannibals with supernatural abilities, and the one on the show came across much more like Predator with the way it could blend in to its surroundings, but if we're going for real world reasons, it's because of the show's budget that they didn't keep doing it, and based on the effects that they had in later season even with a a bigger budget, that's probably a good thing. In the earlier seasons, they didn't need the crutch of VFX, because the storytelling was there, the show was darker, had less of a budget, and was still much better at eliciting the horror of the things they came across without really needing to show monsters in all their monster-y goodness. As their budget grew, I think it actually hindered the overall storytelling.

As a refresher the below, and I wouldn't call a Wendigo a third-tier monster. It just isn't European in its origin so it's less well known, but in actuality, they're pretty top tier as far as monsters go.

I love Rick Worthy's performance as the Alpha Vamp. I also really like his backstory on how he was really struggling with getting roles at the time that this came up, and he credits it with reinvigorating his career. I wouldn't change him being there. I think we got sort of what you're describing with the wendigo in season 1.

I agree. I actually think that the MoC arc was as much about 'teaching' Sam that what he said in The Purge was wrong, because he would do whatever it took to save Dean, even if Dean didn't want it, as it was about Dean being in Sam's shoes on the flip side.