Chinspinner

And the laughter track that makes the entire series unbearable. This might be popular, but this is pure McDonalds. It is moron TV.

Yes, the angst is tedious. They are all like the teenage version of myself, fucking tedious.

Yes, and this was purposefully left ambiguous, which was good writing. What was BAD writing was omitting everything that followed so as to deceive the audience.

Actually let me add a post about this; namely the debate over the Baelish/ Arya/ Sansa sub-plot. Personally, I think the issue is this: GoT was always unpredictable, it subverted trope after trope, it led the audience into a false sense of security. In this series/ season, in particular, rather than subverting tropes, it has used them several times, and it has also relied upon deus ex machina repeatedly. As a small example, would Benjen ever have reappeared in the books in such a casual and flippant manner? While the show remains great, it has come to rely on those tropes US TV writers tend to use, rather than the subversion of tropes Martin tended to use.

As per my previous posts, I agree entirely, the whole thing felt awkward and a little cheap to me (see previous posts). Edit: I would add that in previous series of GoT I would not expect the trope to be followed, rather I would expect it to be subverted... but in this series, less so.

I hate to be THE twat, but when I saw her enter with the knife, I was somewhat clued into how this would play out; but only because it was a trope-ish (new word) bait and switch.

I agree. While this would have ruined the reveal, it would have also felt less confused and less manipulative of the audience. Then again, the writers have really created a rod for their own back with (as someone aptly named him) Google Bran (Deus Ex Machina Bran might be an even more apt title, although not as pithy).

Would they even have met? Wasn't one in Ireland and the other in Morocco or something?

Yeah, I wrote it, and all I meant is the following: Sansa has history and baggage with Baelish, and how ever much her logical mind knows not to trust him, her emotional mind may stand in her way. Therefore, it struck me that it was likely to be with the help of Arya and Bran that she was able accept him for what he is. Furthermore, the scene in the previous episode where Arya hands her the knife (later submitted as evidence against Baelish) is strongly indicative that this is how events unfolded.

I think you nailed it here. This was supposed to be an adult-orientated take on the MCU; and an adult perspective is less likely to revolve around punching playground bullies in the face, and more likely to revolve around dismantling the corrupt systems, the rigged playing field and the ingrained wealth divide that sees them in eternal debt slavery. The Netflix series lost this focus. DD1 worked on both levels, mainly because they had superb stuntmen and fight choreographers, which made their fight scenes visceral and balletic. JJ could not rely on the fight scenes so went with the psychological, which also worked well (but as you say it should have been cut by three episodes). Unfortunately now we just have the overlong, quick-cut, shaky-cam dismantling of hoards of red-shirts, using inconsistent powers, which is boring.

The best description I have seen of Inhumans is that it looks like a porn parody. With regard to Netflix MCU shows, I broadly rate them in the following order, from good to bad: - 1) DD1 2) JJ 3) DD2 4) LC 5) Defenders 6) IF The first 3 were good and the last 3 were disappointing. My concern is that the disappointing series are also the most recent releases, which suggests a general slide in quality or a deficit of ideas. Perhaps there just is not that much you can do in this universe and they are already creatively bereft.

Plus, why would Sansa and Aria have kept up the pretence in all those scenes behind closed doors? If they had been manipulating Baelish from the start, then the show-runners were also manipulating the audience. The only way this sub-plot works is if Sansa believed Baelish, Arya led her by the nose to the truth of it and Sansa woke up to Baelish' plot (confirmed by Bran off-screen) at some point between her first scene with Baelish of this episode and the scene in which she had him killed. To be honest, I felt this entire sub-plot was poorly written, rushed and slightly confused. It had the feel of a standard bait-and-switch and series of tropes used in lesser dramas than GOT, and it relied entirely on deceiving the audience in a rather cheap manner.

I read the novel as a kid, but literally remember nothing about it (it has merged into any number of other King novels I read at that time). I always thought the movie was a bit of an underrated gem. It did everything the show did not; it put some compelling characters into a claustrophobic, unknown and dangerous environment and allowed the drama to organically unfold from their fear and distrust (the series felt far less character driven and far more reliant upon external plot devices for drama). The film also had a superb ending, which I won't spoil here; and in reference to earlier posts, I do understand why people may find it manipulative, but personally I felt it was sufficiently earned through the set up and increasing hopelessness and helplessness that was the major story arc. It certainly was not "gunshot, fade to black" or "it was a all a dream" levels of cheap. The mist actually felt dangerous in the movie, rather than the show where the level of danger varied to suit the plot at any given time. The film had an internal logic and set of rules with regard to the mist, whereas the show had incoherence and fluid rules. I could continue to point out ways in which the film was better than the show, but what's the point; the show was just bad.

Well, that happened. It will remain in my mind for a day or so, and if there is ever a Season 2, I will have forgotten the first ever happened.

It has been cancelled? I'm not surprised; a swift autopsy: - 1) Juliette Lewis' character was not a strong enough connective thread to hold the series together. 2) The first season was full of underwritten characters (not helped by the fact Philippe is such a bland and emotionless actor), silly twists and absurd plot off-shoots ( particularly all that nonsense with the neighbour stalking and kidnapping the MC). The extension of the series in webisodes is just irritating; if you have a story to tell, tell all of it in one format. Your audience should not have to work to experience the entire intended story, it alienates them. 3) The second season actually had a number of compelling characters, but they won't be appearing again if it follows the format of the previous season. As with the first season, the twists and secrets piled one upon another until all suspension of disbelief was lost, mine snapped early but it was utterly shattered by the bigamy twist, which turned the show into an unintentional comedy. The murderer was telegraphed far too early (by virtue of being the only apparently innocent member in the core cast, which followed exactly the format of the first season). They tried to develop Juliette Lewis' character, but there was very little they could actually do to make such a cold fish personable. The final cliff hanger felt cheap and exploitative of the audience. 4) Another season would probably compare poorly to the second season (in terms of the characters). I would be wishing the MC, his brother, his friend and the NY cop were in it for the entire run. However, I did enjoy it and would have liked to watch a third season.

I know I am late to this show, but wow, just wow. This is so ridiculously entertaining. There were two moments that stood out to me: - 1) Roughly halfway through the series, every member of the friends and family had a bunch of dirty little criminal secrets, except one, and from that moment onwards the killer may as well have been wearing a neon sign stating "murderer". This somewhat detracted from the reveal. 2) The secrets and lies piled one upon another to the point of ridiculousness. There were silly and contrived twists everywhere, but the straw that broke the camels back was the bigamy twist in the previous episode. From that moment on, this show became gold, comedy gold. I hope there is a third series.

I am not sure if I am just suffering super-hero fatigue (I stopped watching Marvell/ DC Universe superhero films some years ago, but still found the Netflix take on the genre interesting), but I was just underwhelmed by the whole thing. JJ was the most engaging character and the scenes between Luke and Danny were fun, as were Foggy's sparse appearances; but overall I felt the series started strongly, but petered out towards the end. The only fight scenes I have ever enjoyed are those with DareDevil's stuntman or Colleen Wing; and when entire tracts of the show are given over to the other cast members "fighting" (with their horribly inconsistent powers), it bores me. Unfortunately this was the lion share of the latter episodes- quick cut, shaky cam fight scene after fight scene that just became tedious. One plus is that after strongly disliking Ironfist, I felt they fixed the character of Danny Rand in this series (although he is still useless at his role).

I’ve got around to watching the rest: - 1) Finally, the Arya/ Sansa storyline was resolved. They were far too easily duped by Baelish, it had to be a set up. His downfall was an entertaining scene. 2) Cersei was lying, a scene that everyone and their cat knew was coming. How do the Lannister’s have the iron bank still? Surely, they lost the gold when attacked by Daenerys. What the hell is this 10,000-strong army nonsense (Golden something)? Why are they just waiting around for a war to fight? This smacks of deus ex machina. 3) Bran is very selective in the visions he has; he seems to see things that suit the plot, and nothing that doesn’t, it is very convenient. 4) Incest! 5) The destruction of the wall by the zombie dragon was a strong ending. A good episode overall.

I have just caught up with the last episode: - 1) Over the last two episodes, the walking and talking scenes have been some of the best of the series. 2) Euron Greyjoy is irritating as a character, it is too much, too try hard. He does not have the quiet, sadistic, psychopathic threat of Ramsay Bolton, he is a clown. I am glad he returned to the Iron Island. 3) That overlong, pregnant pause before the white walker came out the box was superb. That one moment made the whole silly plan and the loss of the dragon worthwhile. 4) Jon Snow is an idiot (like father, like son), and no one made the return of prisoners a stipulation of the agreement- disloyal bunch. 5) The Tyrion/ Cersei scene was great. The Jon/ Daenerys scene that followed, less so. This is the difference between strong, compelling characters, and slightly muddled, cardboard characters. I paused the episode here, it seemed a natural break.

Unfortunately the BBC also co-produced Top of the Lake, the first season of which was so reductive in its gender stereotyping that it was offensive to everyone (all the male characters were abusers, and all the female characters were the ineffectual victims of men).

Wow, they have churned this out. I notice the advertising is for Kiefer rather than the show, seems apt.

Apologies if this should have appeared in another thread, please feel free to move it; or feel free to change the title to something witty. This thread is intended for discussion of any of the characters, character arcs and their motivations. I am late to this show, and have just caught up with it online. I find one character unfathomable, and it has been bugging me over the two seasons, namely: Wendy Rhoades. 1) I do not understand what she does professionally. Other characters spout self-help book levels of nonsense about her, like: "She broke me down and reassembled me", but I just watched the entire scene where this was supposed to have happened, and it didn't. To the contrary, they had a chat with some weekend-course psycho-babble thrown in on occasion. She gets paid a fortune and her role and purpose literally has the same value as a $9.99 self-help book. This just irritated me endlessly, I was constantly told how she was invaluable to the firm, but there was nothing in the show that showed me that. 2) Given the above I started to wonder if it was Axe's relationship with her that kept her in the job, and to a degree that explains it, but there is no doubt the show wants you to think she is a prodigy that excels at her role. Which is another issue, the relationship between Wendy and Axe felt antagonistic from the start, and his loyalty to her felt out-of-character. The show never sold me that he would hold such blind loyalty for her character (before his motivations turned to revenge on Chuck, and even taking into account his control-freakery). 3) I never understood what she got out of her relationship with Chuck, I was never shown a reason why she was with him, or why she would have fallen for him. The show-boating S&M scenes in the first season did not help, as they reduced their relationship to a gimmick. If I were to be harsh, I would describe her as a McGuffin around which the other characters can revolve and their motivations can be shaped.

My thoughts as I watched: - 1) The dismissal of Gendry’s complaints about being sold to the witch was amusing. The entire stripped-down nature of the scenes beyond the wall were entertaining. It had that horror movie sensibility where the characters are picked off one by one. Although, admittedly this was the most stupid plan ever conceived. 2) Arya was tricked too easily by Baelish in the previous episode given all that she has been through. She should be more cunning and worldly. I am glad she brought the note to her sister’s attention immediately, rather than skulking behind her back, and the later scene between the two of them played out well. Hopefully this storyline will be resolved quickly. 3) Tyrion’s misgivings about Daenerys grow further. I know people disagree, but once again she is painted as the antagonist in the scene, admittedly, rather clumsily. Then once again she flies off to the rescue, which seems to conflict wither her earlier character development. She seems inconsistent as a character, lately. 4) One dragon down; and they did it, the return of Benjen, which was all a little too fan fiction for my liking. As is the burgeoning relationship between Jon Snow and Daenerys. The show would be better with them as allies and without any suggestion of romance; however, this route does suggest one of them will die. 5) A zombie dragon should be fun.

A GOT writer is not going to give away character arcs: that is a spoiler. He answered a simple question with a simple answer, and even then he sat on the fence.

The intention of the writer's is clear.