PAForrest
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Posts posted by PAForrest
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Yeah, it's pretty low-rent of the CW to say nothing about their one and only win of the night. Then again, it's the CW - low-rent is its wheelhouse.
Did they really think because they were the ones airing the program that the committee would just hand over the wins to the J the CW is promoting and the show he used to be on? Sorry, but I honestly believe one or both of those names to the respective categories may have been a courtesy for the network to begin with. But that doesn't mean they intended to hand out either of those awards to the CW just 'cuz.
Jensen, of course, was so much more classy than the network et. al. deserved, including all of them for thanks in his acceptance speech. Then again, Jensen has been way too good for the network for many years.
Still, given the other actors in the category, I was pleasantly surprised Jensen won. Not that I don't think he deserved it - and I do agree it was more likely for his body of work on the show beyond this last season. But almost any of those other actors would totally have deserved the award too. If I recall, I did watch all the series every other actor in the category was a part of. I didn't like Lovecraft Country as much as I thought I would, even though I'm glad it beat out SPN, but the performances were excellent. Michael K. Williams is someone I have loved watching since I first saw him on The Wire.
I don't like Jim Michaels, but at least he had the common courtesy to congratulate Jensen. Of course, Michaels is already gone from the CW and moving onto The Boys himself as well, so I'm sure that has something to do with it.
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7 hours ago, catrox14 said:
Hot fucking damn! Jensen wins Critics Choice Award for Best Actor in a Horror or Fantasy show. Gotdam , I am so proud of our guy!
OMG me too! And so totally deserved after having to "take it or leave it" in the final season. Now this is called living one's best life. Congratulations Jensen! And the show he's moving onto cleaned up in their categories, which I was also happy to see.
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I'm tickled pink that Jensen won against some other really good actors - and that this was an actual real award! Not like the Kiddie's or People's Choice thing. I didn't watch the show because the CW is deader than a dead thing to me and I haven't check into the network since the finale fail. But I was so happy to see all the squee'ing on twitter last night. And he looks soooooooo delicious!!!!! Clearly still in the mountains - but WHERE in the mountains? If he isn't in Ontario by now, he should be any day as the actors are slowly making their way into Toronto for quarantining.
I was also thrilled that The Boys won so big - five awards, I believe. Jensen made the right move!
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37 minutes ago, ahrtee said:
It's not the final destination that matters (it's the same for everyone). It's the journey that makes life (or a show) interesting.
Well, some of us have said that this finale made it so you didn't have to bother watching 15 years of the show. And you're right, the final destination is the boring stuff since it's cast in stone. It's the everything else that actually matters to a life, and to a show about people with lives. It will always be unfortunate that the stuff that mattered was all rendered moot in the end.
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19 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:
I wish we’d got more episodes along the lines of Baby. The Night Moves montage is them sharing brotherly affection and intimacy. A good place in their relationship during a streak of bleak episodes and seasons.
A million times better than that lame montage we got at the end of 19 - and that was better than anything we got in 20. SAD!
Yes, we needed a lot more episodes like this one - we needed an entire last season like this episode. But that required bringing back the good writers from the past, which is what Jensen wanted.
WRT Martin, clearly he was portrayed as a man suffering severe PTSD in Sam, Interrupted. And it was also clear he had been released WAY too soon when Sam snagged him to kill Dean's friend - because that's what Sam intended, bottom line. If Supernatural was a teen stalker movie in season 8, Sam would definitely be the crazy jealous roommate who seems harmless at first, but spends the movie working to eliminate all Dean's friends as they are rivals for Sam's obsession.
The whole jealousy angle that season was hella weird.
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On 12/19/2020 at 1:14 PM, Pondlass1 said:
I read somewhere that SoldierBoy won’t be on our screens until 2022. 😱😱
Im gonna need a lot of shovelling snow or baling hay videos from Jensen if I’ve got to wait that long! 😍😍😍
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of streaming shows that were supposed to premiere in fall 2021 are pushed to 2022. Shooting for The Boys may be delayed a little anyway due to the Ontario shut down starting Christmas Eve.
Yes, we absolutely are going to need more mountain man content - or literally anything Jensen wants to share with us! And considering he trends whenever he does, it's good PR too. LOL!
A month later and the finale still rots in my head. My expectations were sewer level low going into it, but I still can't believe how much worse it was than even I could have expected.
Dean's death is literally like a death in the family. Cruel and unfair. I'm never going to warm up to that crap finale or the piss poor way they did my favorite character. 😭
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2 hours ago, tessathereaper said:
Part of me really hopes, after he actually saw it, Kripke apologized to Jensen for telling him that ending was good. LOL
More than one person owes an apology to Jensen. But I honestly don't believe Kripe thought it was good or not good. I don't think he really cared. Hell, I'm not convinced he even watched it.
I still believe his advice to Jensen was to hang in there, live with it, and get ready to move on because the last part was the most important and it was past time.
And I also now sincerely believe this finale was mostly rewritten by the suits at the CW, given the changes they probably wanted made. At Misha's Vegas m&g in March - before they had any idea they'd be shut down for months, thinking then it was only going to be a couple of weeks - he apparently told fans that the finale was already undergoing rewrites, likely at the behest of Pedowitz. At the time those had nothing to do with COVID changes. He also told them he had four more days to shoot - whether those four were split between 19 and 20, or were all in one or the other will never be known until such a time that Misha spills. But one way or the other, we were supposed to see Castiel again.
And then of course there's Alex who did come back to film a scene that was cut - and no way in hell would Dabb have cut out his own celestial insert.
The only thing I'm certain of with this finale is that Dabb intended to kill off Dean, and that was the source of Jensen's dissatisfaction with the finale. But Dabb was not a Wincester, and he did not care that much about the brothers' relationship overall. He was about his OCs and characters other than the Winchesters. This finale does not feel like Dabb at all. In a way it plays out much like Swan Song did - an episode Kripke was not exactly thrilled with either, so much so that he used a pseudonym. The changes to his original plans were requested by Gamble and likely Dawn Ostroff who supported Gamble.
If the series finale was the result of the network meddling, I'd be very curious what Dabb's original intention was. I probably wouldn't like it any better, because Dean would still be dead. But I wouldn't be at all surprised anymore if it wasn't exactly what we got.
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Worst TV Character Deaths of 2020.
Both Castiel and Dean Winchester make the list, with the dates of their deaths - only two weeks apart. SOB!!!!
And if anyone still believes the average viewer honestly thought Dean's death didn't come almost immediately after defeating Chuckles McChuckleson, here is what TV Line has to say:
QuoteWatching Dean have his life tragically cut short after finally besting God was painful...
Which is exactly as it was depicted. Too short, too fast. 😭
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6 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:
Chest, shoulders, back... 😵
THUD!!!!! 🤩
I would suspect they've rented a cabin for the holidays somewhere there are snowy mountains. But the line about moving the family, and the hashtags #mountainLife #newadventures is definitely eye-raising. Maybe they bought a mountain cabin as a vacation place? I can't imagine they've left Austin all of a sudden, they have too much of a life there. I'm guessing possible second home. Where? That's the mystery.
Still, the man should not look that delectable shoveling snow!
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On 12/11/2020 at 7:00 PM, BabySpinach said:
Looks like it's good stuff, mostly about that newly-revealed script line "Still beautiful, still Dean Winchester," which I FULLY SUPPORT!
This fucking show, lmao. It's been over for three weeks and there's STILL stuff coming out about it and people freaking out on social media.
Weeks - or was it months ago now, I can't even anymore - I was speculating that a script page from another episode couldn't possibly be correct because of all the stage direction. Surely 15 years in we wouldn't see that much stage direction. Right?
But as it turns out, if KatyM is correct about what Sera G said years ago, apparently SPN writers have been doing this all along. It's a thing with them. So sure, I buy it - seems likely enough. And considering the effusive praise Berens had Cas heap on Dean, which was the most shocking thing to come out of this episode from this particular writer - more than the love confession - it's not unreasonable to think that Berens also included the "Still beautiful" stage directions either. Because why not - Dean is, and always was.
I also think it's highly likely Cas was supposed to pull Dean closer - the movement does come off like that's exactly what he was going to do before he pushes him to the ground. That change could easily have been a director's choice, or even a editing choice.
On 12/8/2020 at 1:58 PM, Airmid said:- The script is clunky and weirdly, this scene actually should have been longer. Rewatching it, Cas just seems to have this epiphany out of nowhere and wants to use his deal [more on that in a second] to bust Dean out of this. But you can’t just command yourself to be happy and it’s hard to understand how after the past few years [more on this also in a minute] Cas can actually just be “It’s in the being not the having” and truly happy while Dean gets to stand there like a mute fish. The whole thing feels very inorganic, just that the writers were visiting their most current corner, dredged this plot point up, and then shoved it on in so the series could keep going.
- Dean should have known about the deal way before this point and have Castiel just trying to comfort him here, reaching an understanding within himself what’s happening. The fact Dean has no idea what’s going on doesn’t help, it hurts the storyline for me. A good time to bring it up would have been after closing the hell rift. It also would have allowed Dean to understand Cas’ reasoning better. It doesn’t make up for Mary’s death at all, but it’s a deal that Dean himself would of made for someone he loved and also the heartbreak that Jack, knowing about the deal, still just dithered away his soul on useless things before eating alt-Michael, hence rendering Cas’ sacrifice meaningless up to this point. But that would have painted Jack in a bad light and we can’t do that, even if keeping him the way he’s been makes the character completely unlikable to me.
- Not once does Cas apologize to Dean for anything, even for any pain in general he may have caused him over the years of their relationship. I’m not going to say Dean was a saint here, he’s not, and he hasn’t always been great with Cas, but Cas, whoa boy, Cas has done some stuff, really bad stuff. And Cas has had a habit of choosing a lot of stuff over Dean. It’s been a bad rut he was stuck in for years that wasn’t good for his character, but it was a thing that had happened, with the most current thing being Jack. I’ll just straight up say that I do not like them together in any way under Dabb, their relationship did not make me feel good and I highly dislike this rather dysfunctional relationship declared good, especially with the hand waving of all the previous hurt/betrayals/pain as though a declaration of love undoes that.
I don't disagree with anything in your review, honestly. Drabb really changed Cas under his tenure, his loyalties became highly suspect. Not that they weren't at times before, but as soon as Jack was conceived and splatted out of his mommy, it's like Cas became a cult devotee and Jack was his Jim Jones.
But before the demon spawn, Cas was committed to the Winchesters most of the time. And he did have a special bond with Dean that wasn't denied by anyone on the show. So I guess for me, if one removed the Drabb years and the demon spawn, then the love confession doesn't come out of nowhere - it would have felt a lot more organic, because many on screen characters already assumed those feelings existed. In the end, that's why it works for me, ignoring the Drabb era as one wants to do anyway. And it's so freaking rare that anyone on this show says anything good or complimentary or loving to Dean, that I can't help but admit it sucked me in. It was about damn time - too little too late, sure, but someone said something nice to Dean Winchester! I'll take it.
As for apologizing to Dean, please, no one on this show rarely if ever apologized to Dean for anything awful they've ever done. Dean Winchester was the go-to character for apologies. Seriously, for 15 years I've simply assumed it was a white board mandate that stipulated only Dean Winchester would be made to grovel and apologize so that none of the other characters had to. Why? Who knows. My own feeling is it's because Dean was too popular for many of the producers, and the idiots thought it would knock him down a peg or two. It never did, but they never stopped trying.
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2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:
It’s the subconscious things people pick up on. Human nature being what it is. Nothing to do with script or storyline. Jared shared chemistry with Jensen but not with Misha. So Sastiel could never thrive.
Of the three Jensen has the most talent and thirst for challenge. Jared has landed his perfect gig in Texas, Misha has found his niche in philanthropy and Jensen likely will go on to enjoy a very successful career in film and TV.
Misha may also go into politics. But I also wouldn't be surprised if Jensen throws a little work Misha's way in the future dependent upon what projects his company is working on and if there's a role he would be suited for.
But for the most part, this is what happens, people move on from each other and go their separate ways when a project is done. I know Jared said something to the effect that he and Jensen would work together again sooner than later, but I really doubt that's true. Even a fixit revist of the series would be further down the line. I think at best, and again sometime in the future, Jensen might agree to direct an episode of Walker, if it fits into his schedule. But that's as close to working together again in the near future that I can envision.
Once The Boys starts filming, Jensen's unlikely to be able to come back into the states anyway until numbers come down and the vaccine is spread wider into the population. Otherwise, he'll have to fly into Toronto two weeks before he starts filming to quarantine, and then that's where he'll stay for a few to several months.
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4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:
I think it was one of his old man sweaters. 😁
Between the trimmed/shaved beard and the covered hair, and Kripke mentioning the suit, my spec is that he did a photo shoot in costume, and he has plenty of time to grow the beard back by February.
Oh yeah, could have been a sweater. It'd really be OOC for Jensen to be wearing a robe on a zoom call. That's why I thought it was odd. LOL!
I've seen speculation that he may have just done a photo shoot - that may be how Kripke saw the suit. If they plan on dying his hair for the role, and they had to do it for the photo shoot, that could also explain the beanie.
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10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:
I've seen some spec that maybe Jensen has his hair dyed dark under the beanie. Soldier Boy perhaps?
I think it may have been wet, maybe he'd showered? He was wearing a robe, which is unusual for him. LOL! If they were going to dye his hair - and hey, they might! - I'd think it would be closer to filming.
Plus, he had said in his panel a few weeks ago that they asked him to grow out his beard - but the beard is suddenly shaved off. Hmmm. Of course, it takes him no time to grow one out, so maybe he thought he'd wait until after the first of the year rather than going full on mountain man in the meantime. Curiouser and curiouser.
Kripke did mention seeing the super suit, and sounded impressed. 😋
ETA: I did love seeing some of the actors last night who we haven't seen in a long time. I particularly enjoyed seeing Curtis Armstrong participate. He looks like he's lost some weight. Sebastian had a lot to say. And Jim Beaver had to run because he said he was going to work, so he must have been in a trailer and is shooting something somewhere.
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6 hours ago, ahrtee said:
TBH, I have no problem with people who use their celebrity status to raise money (or just awareness) for some good purpose (whether I agree with the politics or not). It's better than trying to get a fandom to buy some overpriced or unnecessary item just because a "star" endorsed it. JMO.
ITA, and for this American, this particular issue is a good cause - a vital cause. Plus Stacey Abrams is a rock star, IMO - I love listening to her talk because she knows her shit.
Obviously it's not for everyone, but I don't have a problem with it because no one is forced to participate or join in. I did, I believe in the issue, and I'm missing me my favorite actor(s)! So it was all good.
12 minutes ago, SueB said:‘Turning your Social Media over for a cause’ is a very common thing these days. In these forums Misha has generally stuck to ‘get out the vote’ activities — which has apparently become a partisan issue. But Misha, who has mobilized the fandom for years with GISH is very adept.
Personally I think Misha is all about the cause he’s fighting for versus self-promoting. But his causes are definitely a ‘brand’. Ultimately we weren’t entitled to those gifts auctioned or bonus gag reel. Misha got others to invest in his cause. He raised $250K for a get out the vote campaign. I think it’s pretty tame.
I agree with this too. Misha is passionate about voting and the injustices happening in the country and across the world. I fully expect at some point he will go back into politics, starting at the local level. He really should, I think he'd be good at it. Running up to the election, all kinds of actors and series casts were performing zoom sessions just like this one to raise money for voting and certain candidates.
Like Ahrtee said, it's better than hocking tee shirts.
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9 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:
Is Dean Winchester exciting, reckless, unpredictable and righteous? Or is Dean Winchester exciting, reckless, unpredictable and righteous because Chuck wrote him that way?
... that is the question. 😱😱😱😱
I'm going with the first, the author be damned - especially this author who burned down another guy's house just 'cuz he had no good ideas of his own, and he could.
But Chuckles did keep complaining that the guys wouldn't do what he wanted them to do, wouldn't take a knee, and that's why he got increasingly frustrated and went ballistic - again, both on screen and off.
So Dean Winchester is exciting, reckless, unpredictable, and righteous all on his own, and that's why he objected so hard to the idea that Chuckles pulled their strings or tried to. Drabb will never take that away from me.
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11 hours ago, tessathereaper said:
Do we know that Miracle had an owner? I mean he could have been a runaway or someone dumped him right before the snap and it just so happens Chuck didn't snap him so he could screw with Dean one last time.
Yeah, we don't know for sure. But he certainly did not look like a feral dog, he was clearly very well cared for. But sure, he just could have been a manifestation of Chuck's to screw with Dean's head. Yet if that was the case, Miracle shouldn't have been brought back when Gack un-Chucked everyone - half-assed a job as he clearly did.
Obviously we're supposed to assume Dean took the dog with them back to the bunker, for whatever reason - no owner, or he just dog-nabbed him, which isn't Dean's style. 😉
Miracle made me sadder than anything, because animals can grieve so deeply upon the loss of their owners. It's heartbreaking because they don't understand why their owner is gone. 😭
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10 hours ago, ahrtee said:
Hell, yes. That wasn't a montage of multiple days to show time passing: it was a single day in chronological order, starting with Dean's alarm, waking up, playing with the dog, breakfast, washing dishes, washing clothes, researching hunts and finding the pie contest. It may have been one day after any number of other ones, but that wasn't shown. They didn't appear to be doing things by rote or looking bored, so it couldn't have been too long.
And I imagine Dabb would be wetting himself with joy at the "irony" of Dean being killed almost immediately after "winning," without getting the chance to enjoy it.
Other interpretations IMO are based on hearsay, head canon and wishful thinking; which is not to say they might not be true, just that, no, there wasn't any proof shown on screen...
..........
But I'm all for other interpretations, especially if it makes someone feel better about the ending. I just don't believe it was Dabb's intention.
No, I don't believe so either - whatever else may have happened with this script, I have no doubt the one thing that Dabb wanted to convey is Dean being killed stupidly on what looked like a first hunt after 19, with no time to enjoy the supposed freedom they just earned.
It's pretty obvious that Dean's death, especially coming so quickly on the heels of a victory, is what Jensen - Dean's #1 fan - really struggled with. And he's not alone by any stretch of the imagination, obviously. That may be why there are conflicting reports about what Jared said WRT the timeline, or why Jared even tried to spin it at all seeing as the panel happened a few days after the finale aired and they were all fully aware of the backlash by then.
I didn't watch Jared's panel and am certainly not privy to any of the private m&g aspects - but I've heard he said it was two weeks, two years, five years? Which was it - or was it really all of them? Like I said, sounds more like after the fact damage control, which is a thankless position for these guys to be in, and he was just guessing.
Trust me, I desperately want to believe it wasn't exactly the way we saw it on screen. Dean being cut down so ingloriously in the prime of his life just ruins everything that comes before for me. I don't know if it would go down even slightly better if we were definitively told it was at least a year or more and many hunts later, or not. But it couldn't be worse than this. I'm at the point, despite the brilliant performance in the barn, that I have to mentally work to ignore the finale completely and head fanon the series ending at 19 - which is a weak as shit episode too, but one with at least a more hopeful ending.
I also struggle with the whole Dean driving around aimlessly/Sam popping up 40 years or a half hour later timeline. Bobby says time happens differently in whatever that heaven was - which I agree doesn't really look like any different from memorex heaven. So if you're going to try and convince me that Dean didn't drive around miserably for 40 years until Sam shows up, and it was a much shorter time, then that brings up a whole other hornet's nest of problems. Because if Sam shows up for Dean after about an hour, then frankly an hour after that, so should Sam's kid, and an hour after that, the kid's kids, and so on and so on, ad nauseam. That's just weird and frankly makes the whole place super crowded.
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40 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:
Ya think?
So sweeeeeeeet!!!!!
Yeah, I honestly thought there was a lot of Jensen bleed-through in that scene with Dean hugging Miracle. Totes adorbs, but definitely a lot of Jensen happening there.
The whole Miracle thing is a little off, though. When they found Miracle, his owners had been Chucked - for want of a better term. Then so was Miracle. So when we saw Miracle un-Chucked at the end of 19, running across the street toward something or someone, I thought it was clear his owner(s) had returned too. So why does Dean have the dog in 20?
The Miracle angle makes the whole thing look more like Dean's fever/coma dream right from the jump - which is frankly an infinitely better way to look at the entire episode than taking it at face value, which sucks the big one for poor Dean.
I'm not sure I will ever get as attached to another character like I have Dean Winchester. I mean, I've been attached before - pretty hard. But Dean is different, and he'll remain special to me forever. That's why his crappy death is so hard to take and will never feel fair or right.
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4 hours ago, ahrtee said:
So....out of a combination of being truly pissed off at the flatness of the ep, and waaaay too much time on my hands, I actually *counted* the number of words written in this episode. It came out to approximately 1770. That's *words,* folks, not sentences or lines...
So what does this actually mean to me? Two things (neither unexpected, but still really, *really* annoying):
1. Dabb had no interest in writing anything emotional, thought-provoking, or even vaguely interesting, just standard paint-by-numbers, with the briefest possible scenes to get to his conclusion, and
2. I have no idea how much he's paid per episode, but, just on a per-word basis, he's being paid *waaaaaay* too much.
That is interesting. And yes, when I think back on it, there are few scenes with lines in them. The whole thing is padded with at least, what, three long-ass musical montages? And that's just what I can remember. I mean, come on, if you were in college and taking a screenwriting class, and turned in a project like this, I think you'd be lucky to get a C-, at best. If you have to pad your script that much, you're not doing it right.
I still have to wonder how much of this is Dabb, though, and how much is CW interference? We know of at least one scene that was cut - Alex said he shot a scene, and it wasn't used. Chances are high that Misha filmed a scene too - possibly with Jack, possibly not. Or worst case scenario, he quarantined for two weeks, and at the end of it Singer and Dabb said, 'thanks, we'll pay you, but we're not using you.'
I mean, if the script really didn't change that much - except for seeing all the cameos in heaven - then yeah, it's hard to imagine Dabb put more than 30 minutes of effort into it. The script is thin.
OTOH, if he had a script that wasn't padded with one musical montage after another, and the CW came in and said, 'cut this and this and this and this', then that actually would explain all the montage padding. Wouldn't make it better, but it would explain such a paper thin script.
I'm feeling there is blame on both sides for this flat one-dimensional finale - or possibly multiple sides if Singer and Dabb disagreed on points too.
Whatever the explanation is, it will remain a sad one-dimensional end to a 15 year journey.
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3 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:
That's funny because I thought the reunion of Sam and Dean was flat as well. Heaven kind of looks like the Stepford version that Dean was fighting so hard to prevent in S4.
I don't disagree at all, especially from Sam's side. At least we get a little smile from Dean and we are aware that he knows Sam has arrived without even turning around.
I know Jared says he thought it turned out great that they just say each other's names at the end, but I wish he put as much energy into his delivery of Dean's name as he did in choosing the wardrobe. Again the word flat comes to mind - there was no emotion there.
Heaven was a huge disappointment. Very Stepford indeed.
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On 11/28/2020 at 10:39 AM, gonzosgirrl said:
Oh, the devil is in the details.
- vampires are supernaturally strong and they were outnumbered. so one of them getting the jump on Dean isn't horrible or OOC, but...
- they had vampire disabling bullets one scene before, why on earth didn't they use them immediately in the barn?
- Jack is omniscient now and even had the power to fix Heaven, and they specifically said he was going to be hands-off, so he couldn't save Dean, but...
- he saved Castiel. We're supposed to believe that he saw Cas, Dean and Sam as his family, his fathers, and he saved Castiel from a fate Cas agreed to, but he can't let Dean recover from a stab in the back a couple weeks into their new lives?
- even Sam, they spent so much time building this relationship with Eileen over the season. Cue the flash forward, to Sam with a young son and omg, yes! Saileen live on! but...
- there is no indication who the mother of his kid is, all the photos around him are old ones, or with the kid. In fact, it seems that Sam dies old and with only his son left to care.
ETA:
- Dean dies and goes to Heaven, looking just like he did when he died, and meets Bobby, who looks just like he did when he died, and tells Dean that Heaven is fixed, no more Memorex, etc. But...
- Sam dies and goes to Heaven, (which we aren't supposed to believe is Dean's Heaven, but a communal place) and he looks just like he did... when Dean died.
Devil in the details, indeed.
Thinking more about your details, and you're right, among the many problems with this finale, it was flat as a pancake. There were no details, there was no dimension at all.
As for Gack, while I'm glad he got off his stolen powers millennial ass to help Cas - from, as you said, a fate he agreed to - his not helping Dean, especially after supposedly granting him the freedom he never got to actually experience, proves Dean's feelings about him were spot on. Jack/Gack was never his family. And the CW CGI'ing Gack's name on the desk means less than nothing. It lacked dimension. It was flat.
I know there are a couple people on this board who were mad about what Dean said, were hoping Dean would take back his words at the end. But I'm glad he didn't, because Gack not saving Dean when he saved Cas proved that Dean was right all along. Jack/Gack was not his family - Jack/Gack couldn't care less if Dean lived or died. He never cared about Dean. Dean showed him more kindness and attention than the kid ever deserved seeing as he received nothing back from him except a murdered mother.
It annoyed the shit out of me too that the CW and Dabb et. al. were more worried that Jared look pretty at the end than having him show up in heaven looking like the old man he was when he died, as he should have. In fact, it frankly would have been more poignant if Dean recognized him purely for his soul and not the way he looked at the end of his life. Just another bit of proof that all the CW wanted was a flat pretty picture in the last shot, especially since they were only using this finale as a Walker promo. I'm seeing more fans on SM starting to post about that, starting to realize we didn't even get a Supernatural finale - we were screwed because of Walker.
Then again, that should make it easier to revisit it in the future since the show never got a proper finale.
On 11/28/2020 at 2:46 PM, Aeryn13 said:If characters can be summed by the Pilot of a show, there is really no need to watch their adventures. Watch the Pilot and the Series Finale and just ignore everything else. SPN might be the show where that actually works. Not a good thing.
I still can't get over this part of it - that a new viewer could literally watch only two episodes of this show, pilot and finale, and miss absolutely nothing. Everything in between was rendered meaningless - 15 years of a waste of time. Hell, you didn't even have to know who Bobby was. You could just assume he was some heavenly Walmart greeter, especially since there was oddly no affection between him and Dean. Not a hug - and both had quarantined, so that's not an excuse - and no real familiarity. Bobby was just some dude sitting there waiting to greet new shoppers to the store. He literally could have looked like anyone.
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17 minutes ago, Myrelle said:
I wasn't sure where to put this, but I think this thread will do.
So I just read somewhere else that Kripke had originally planned to kill off Dean at the end of the first season.
Does anyone here know of any source for that?
The poster said that she had a souce and would try to find it, but I'm impatient and I don't think I've heard that before...
I've never heard that before in 15 years, and it doesn't fit with everything Kripke has said over the years about the brothers' relationship making or breaking the series, and his whole On the Road, Sal & Dean premise.
Sounds like just another attempt to placate Dean fans who were unhappy with the finale.
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21 hours ago, PinkChicken said:
its 15.02 when Dean was pretty upset about the revelation chuck was controlling everything.
Thanks! I assumed it was a Dean line - one that I feel he's going to be asking for eternity. 😉
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13 hours ago, PinkChicken said:
We would do well to remember that a lot of our criticism is often so strong because we do actually really love the show and characters. Regardless of my feelings about the execution of the finale, I know that no other show has a hope in hell of ever usurping this show or Dean Winchester as my lifetime favourite.
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“You asked, 'what about this is real?' We are.” - Castiel
That first statement is everything, because it's truth.
I agree about the conventions, and it's sad that it's out of everyone's control not to be able to have them. Having that real life community does help. I often came away from attending a convention more positive and energized for the show. They're like B-12 shots in the arm. 😉
I wanted to ask you which episode the line "what about this is real?" is from?
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I'd Like To Thank the Academy... Someday: Awards, Nominations and Recognition
in Supernatural
It appears the CW finally got off its ass to tweet congrats after the WB posted this. So, that's something.