PAForrest
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Posts posted by PAForrest
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10 hours ago, WatcherUatl10 said:
Lois and Clark seem not to understand that both their kids share the same DNA. Just because the one shows "super" abilities does not mean that they are not BOTH half alien, and that if they attempt to give them grandkids, those will likely inherit.
About normies, it seems to mirror what happened in Smallville, where many Earthers were affected in different ways by "meteor rock", which means that the writers never have to adhere to any rules, happily for them. My only gripe about Kent is that the introduction of this storyline gives the writers a way to address being half-Kryptonian that would be different from the way they are doing now : one shows super-powers, the other does not. Why NOT allow them each to show his/her Kryptonian side in a different way, and make the story that much more interesting?
Yeah, I was hoping for more of an acknowledgement of the fact that just because Jon isn't the Mary SUEperboy Jordan is, he's still supposed to be Clark's son, half-Kryptonian, and the X-K should be affecting him very differently from the - as you say - Smallville normies. But it's clear I was hoping for too much, and given the previews for next week, it seems they're just turning the whole X-K thing into a trite afterschool special so they can dump on Jon again. Very disappointing. He and Kyle are undeniably the writers' two favorite punching bags. One continues to wonder why they even included them in the narrative in the first place.
It was nice for an episode and a half that Jordan actually paid a little attention to Jon for a change, as it's always been the other way around. Before this every single time there was an opportunity for Jordan to care what's happening with Jon, his gf would call or something shiny would go by and his interest in his brother would be over in seconds. That's when he's not ragging on Jon to his friends. But of course now Jordan is all righteous indignation, and Jon is even more isolated than ever. I guess that's never really going to change. If this was any other show, the way things are going for Jon, it would send him down a suicidal path.
In fact, the parallel anvils dropped in this episode between the way Lucy feels in comparison to Lois and how Jon feels in comparison to Jordan were really on the nose. This kind of a parallel could/should lead Jon to his aunt and Ally, wanting to discover his own inverse self. If it doesn't, again, what was the point?
I assumed Lucy knew Lois was married to Superman, but in this episode that doesn't appear to be the case. How much more pissed off is Lucy going to be when she finds out she's the only one in the family cut off from that secret too?
I don't give a damn about the whole boring soap opera with the Cushing-Cortezes marriage. This is literally all the writers know to do with them. They're unhappy, they're happy, they're unhappy, they're happy, they're unhappy, blah, blah, blah, And like Jon Kent, Kyle is always the bad guy in the scenario. Why? It doesn't appear that they're going to rekindle the teen flame in the Clark-Lana relationship - thank god. And if they wanted Lana to be a strong single mom, they could have just started the show that way - made her a widow or divorcee and not even bothered introducing a husband. Having discovered that this showrunner has every bit the hard-on for Lana as the Smallville showrunners did, I'm now completely turned off and uninterested in anything to do with Lana and her family. Turning Smallville into Lanaville was what made me walk away from that show after the first few years. I hope the same doesn't happen here.
Anderson's motivations are whack. I fully expected this character to be more of a traditional hard-ass military general, one who doesn't know Superman is Clark Kent and married to his daughter. So I expected the two to butt heads, but I don't understand why Anderson is so extreme in his blind hatred for Superman, and why he considers him to be the country's biggest threat? Is Anderson under Ally's influence too, or is he just insane? Since the whole X-K thing started, I even wondered if Anderson was the supplier. Candace may be a dealer, unlikely the only one, but there has to be a supplier and we haven't seen who that is yet. After all, Anderson is the one interested in forming his own super squad.
The most interesting part of the episode was Bizzaro, seeing his world, his cat!, and that weird family picture where the faces of Lois and Jon are scratched out. I don't think that means they're dead, that's something done in anger. At this point I have to guess that Lois and Jon turned against Superman in the Bizarro world for some reason, the most likely being that they fell in with Ally in that world. Is Bizarro a bad guy or isn't he? The mirror hallway fight scene in the Bizarro world and at the end of the episode in this world were awesome, very well done.
I expect Clark and his bro to be staging a prison break within minutes next week. And then what happens with Anderson and the government? How can Superman possibly work with them again?
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22 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:
So, Bizarro might actually not be the big baddie, but is actually going after Ally as well? Sounds like she might actually be from the mirror dimension itself and is now trying to do the same thing to this Earth. It would be interesting if Clark/Superman and Bizarro actually end up becoming allies in this battle, although Bizarro will definitely have to lay off on the killing in order to make it work (then again, I also found it noticeable that we didn't actually see him kill Dr. Faulkner. Maybe someone or something else is at play here?)
My knee-jerk takeaway is that Bizarro came upon Dr. Faulkner already dead, much as Lois did. Obviously it's supposed to look like Bizarro killed her, the overused trope of someone being caught over a body already dead before he/she got there. The set up is a little too on the nose; but my feeling is that Ally's people killed her to keep her quiet because she was going to spill the truth - or, as you say, something or someone else is involved.
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Seriously, the Cushing-Cortezes could invite literally the entire town of Smallville, including their mortal enemy the mayor, and Chrissy's allowed to tag along with Lois, but Jonathan isn't allowed to bring a plus one to his own damn barn? Look, I get the actress playing Candace is probably only signed for x-amount of episodes, but come on writers, do better. That lame excuse just made Sarah and her family - and frankly Jon's family too - look and sound like stuck up assholes.
Anyway, Bizarro Supes isn't the bad guy, which really isn't a surprise. Ally Alston is the Big Bad - at least, as of this episode - so Lois was both right and also very wrong about everything that went down with Lucy and the cult story. Chrissy scored points to get back in my good graces after this episode. She wanted the truth, and she got it, because she was entirely correct when she pointed out that Lois lies to her by omission all the time. Lois needs to do a lot better if she and Chrissy are supposed to be partners.
But it's interesting that Bizarro and Ally are tied into one big ball of storyline. Should have expected that, I guess, so I'm intrigued. However, it also seems way too early in the season for the big reveal to come about. I'm guessing something else is on the horizon.
Sam, Sam, Sam - I'm very disappointed in you, especially after I've been touting you as a good father and thinking Lois was wrong to be so hard on you. Then you go and do this - secretly pit the brothers against each other, and worse, make Jonathan feel small? What the hell kind of grandfather are you?!? I mean, on the one hand Sam seemed to understand that Jon was feeling left out. But OTOH, he took way too much pleasure in pushing Jordan as being the "special" one. Shouldn't one freaking human in the family take some interest in helping Jon become the "extraordinary" human Lois claimed Jon could be? You can't just say it once, Lois, then do nothing about helping Jon become that person. No one has stepped up for Jon, and that sucks.
I get that Jon's trajectory is an uncomfortable one, but dammit, it continues to be completely believable given the circumstances. And at least Sarah gets it - she recognizes all the signs of severe teen depression. Of course, we know the drugs are a factor, but they wouldn't be without the depression. I just hope the show's writers have every intention of making this a lesson for EVERY Kent member of the family, not just Jon - because he wouldn't be doing what he's doing if he hadn't been shoved to the side or out of the picture entirely for over a year now.
The X-K should be allowing Jon to tap into dormant powers he may have exhibited eventually. That's what they SHOULD do. However, I still don't believe the showrunner is going to allow two Superboys in this universe, even though by deciding the Kents were to have twins, the logical thing would be for the powers to be split between them.
I like how they explained why the Cushings are Hispanic even though the name was off. Changing the family name to fit in is a very real thing.
But I despise the cheating trope used to screw up a happy family just because they're too happy.
Sounds like JHI is healing, so that's good news.
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9 hours ago, ukgirl71 said:
Given the tattered cape, I’m going for Bizarro and (somehow he got through/it’s a flashback?) his world’s version of Superboy.
I overlooked the cape at first, so yeah, it definitely looks like Bizarro world Superman and his son Jon or possibly Conner Kent as punk Superboy. Either this is a flashback we see via Bizarro Supes' memories, or somehow our Superman or someone else gets a glimpse into the Bizarro universe.
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56 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:
My knee-jerk is that this is another Superman and his canonical only son, Jon, in another universe where Jon would be the Superboy he's supposed to be, and there's no Jordan.
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On 2/11/2022 at 7:54 AM, Aithne said:
If anyone hasn't yet tried Peacemaker, I highly recommend it in general. But also, Christopher Heyerdahl shows up in a bit part halfway through and is still an incredibly entertaining sociopath even when he's not a demonic torture master. I was so excited to see him, but couldn't share with my husband because he hasn't watched SPN. So I'm here to share with you. Peacemaker. It's great, and CH is hilarious.
IKR, I always love seeing Heyerdahl show up in anything. Yeah, he often plays the same kind of character, but he really gets to show off his comedic chops in Peacemaker. Terrific show.
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21 hours ago, Myrelle said:
I honestly feel as if Dabb pretty much rendered any kind of canon a complete joke with his Chuck the Bad Writer nonsense/storyline(?)
To complain about "canon" after the Drabb years is a bad joke since Drabb rendered almost everything that came before his reign of incompetence as utterly meaningless - down to the guys not even being heroes in their own right, but instead bumbling fools who apparently were never trained to throw a punch or shoot a gun like normal humans actually are. No, it was all Chuckles, like every little thing that ever happened for 15 years, and without him they couldn't even walk through an open door on their own.
Of all Drabb's LOL!canon sins, that was the worst, the one that destroyed anything left standing about the series anyway. So at this point whatever Jensen and RT want to do will pale by comparison. But at least those two actually like the series, where Drabb and Berens didn't, and made it known.
Honestly, even without Chuckles writing/rewriting everything - the easiest out hand-delivered to the fandom by Drabb himself - the angels and their penchant for manipulating reality was already a thing, all the way back to In the Beginning, when Castiel wasn't Dean's bestie and was instead trying to get Dean to do what the angels wanted him to do. Nothing that happened in that episode, orSong Remains the Same is set in stone, IMO, due again to angel interference (aka Michael and Anna).
Drabb sold the long-standing Supernatural audience that 15 years of the show was all due to Chuckles, and not to believe our own eyes anyway. So, sorry, but it's open season on anything remotely resembling "canon", or whatever you want to pick and choose as the canon you like - mostly because according to Drabb and Chuckles, there is no canon, never was.
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16 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:
There was the other component too -- Lois said that she would do anything to protect Lucy and to take Ally down. That's not exactly suggestive of fair and balanced journalism.
I think someone pointed out that Ally resembles one of the leaders in Allison Mack's actual cult, Nancy Salzman. And some combination of being broken and drugs and so forth probably makes her message more attractive than it has any right to be.
Yeah, that was me - and she does a little if you look at the photos of Nancy, or saw clips of her in either of the two documentaries about Nxivm that aired a couple years ago. Obviously the writers are morphing Nancy and Keith Raniere into the one character of Ally. Are they afraid it would be too on-the-nose if they had a Keith stand-in for the cult leader instead, because that ship has sailed, folks. Clearly Chrissy with the blond wig was very much an Allison Mack stand-in at that point. Again I ask, why is the CW so comfortable with this blatant takeoff on Mack's involvement with Nxivm given her tie to their network and Smallville. It's making me a little uncomfortable.
No, Lois is definitely not coming across as unbiased. OTOH, the way Lucy is talking is exactly the way a person neck-deep in the throes of a cult would talk, and if Lois had included the part about the drug-induced hallucination in her piece, that's exactly how general audiences would have read it anyway. Sounds completely cray-cray to me, so I certainly can't blame Lois as a sister and person for believing Lucy is just a tad bit unbalanced. Given that this is a genre show, obviously more is going on here. But just the fact that Lucy blames Lois's 8-year-old self for driving mom away is not even a little rational.
And if Chrissy isn't pissed off that Lois was set up to be recorded and have that recording blasted to the audience and possibly the internet, she's not thinking rationally either. In fact, she appears to have been way too easily compromised by Ally after just a few minutes that Chrissy herself cannot be trusted as a journalist either. I think it may be time for Lois and Chrissy to dissolve their partnership.
16 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:The theme of the episode, and I hope the season, is how dangerous it can be to keep your emotions/trauma/secrets bottled up. Lois chose to deal with Mama Lane's abandonment by ignoring it and refusing to talk about her but Lucy wanted to express her feelings and have a sympathetic ear. Ally was probably the first person willing to listen to Lucy as a way to suck her into the cult. The Cushings have secrets (Kyle) and trauma (Sarah) that Mayor Shithead wants to expose for his own benefit and doesn't care about the collateral damage. Lane's telling Jordan to keep quiet about them training together which we all know will backfire when Lois and Clark find out. I expect when Jon's KryptoSteroid use is discovered he'll talk about feeling less than for not having powers/abilities despite being half-Kryptonian and felt he couldn't/shouldn't tell anyone. I'm certain Nat is bottling up emotions about Superman being good on this Earth, Lois being her mom's doppelgänger, and everything she's experienced in the past few months and it may come out poorly now that she's adding anger about her dad's injuries to the list. Whatever ends up happening with Chrissy she's for sure upset that Lois didn't give all the details about Lucy's experience with Ally's LSD. That theme hit pretty much every character this episode and it's a good one to explore so I hope they keep doing it.
This does sound like the best explanation for what happened in this episode for sure, and possibly is the theme for the season. I guess we'll see.
However, I despise the trope where a couple is getting on really good after a rocky patch (aka the Cushings), so the writers decide, hey, that's boring, let's throw in a past drunken affair to screw things up for a while - or permanently. Gag me, this isn't a daytime soap opera, people. Really hated that twist, and I'm already over it.
Are they trying to tell me Sam Lane trained Superman, because that sounds unlikely - and so him training Jordan in secret isn't really logical and doesn't sit well with me. If Lane was teaching his fully human grandson how to fight to defend himself since he doesn't have super-duper powers, that would be a logical step, especially since Clark isn't stepping up to the plate where Jon's concerned. But of course, once again Jon doesn't factor into any of his supposed family member's lives.
If the drug Jon is taking doesn't trigger some latent half-Kryptonian power in him - and I don't think the showrunner will allow it since Jordan is his special Sue - then I'm going to continue on the assumption that Jon isn't really Clark and Lois's natural son.
It is simply nonsensical that Tag develops almost full blown Kryptonian powers after the incident at the lake, where he was completely human, and Jon gets at best heightened senses like any LSD-like drug would do for most people. We'll see how this story progresses, if it does at all after another episode, but I'm not expecting anything more for Jon.
Unlike everyone else, I think Jon taking the drug, and not turning into a 15-year-old junior reporter right off the bat, is the first truly human teen behavior I've seen from this kid. I know most folks want Jon to stay in the background nice and quiet, and come out only to support Jordan Sue and his parents occasionally, etc., but that's not believable behavior. I'd like to think Jon taking the drug would wake up his family to the fact that they don't pay enough attention to this kid, and that he's got some serious anxiety issues in not being special in Smallville, especially in a family of superheroes where he's certainly not anyone's favorite kid. Sadly I'm sure all this is going to lead to is Clark and Lois screaming at him again and sending him to his room, which is pretty much their go-to in dealing with Jon on a weekly basis. I really enjoy Clark and Lois in most situations on this show, but not where it comes to how they deal - or in most instances don't at all - with Jon, supposedly one of their kids.
It also won't be believable teen behavior if Nat immediately forgives Clark/Superman and Lois for JHI getting hurt after this. She should be angry for quite a while, and should no longer want to cozy up to Lois as her faux-mom. I'd expect her to move out of Jon's room and back into the trailer after this. We'll see if that happens.
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My favorite thing about this episode was the backwards S&L logo/credit at the end. Very cool. And a pretty stellar job with the Doomsday red herring up to this point. I think what the writers and Tyler are doing with Superman here is possibly my favorite version of the supe, movie and tv.
OTOH, Clark's (and Lois's) blatant favoritism toward his powered-up son still bites the big hairy big one. I mean, seriously, giving Jordan his mother's most special locket to give to his 15-year-old girlfriend, when neither Clark or Lois can be bothered to care who the hell Jon dates or hangs around, or frankly what Jon is up to at any given time, is just pathetic. Since Jon is named for Clark's human father who gave his human mother the locket, shouldn't that have gone to Jon? Shouldn't something? And Jon playing it always so cool with being perpetually at bottom of the barrel not just at school and football, but at home as well, makes him not only eligible for sainthood, but more than that simply not at all believable as a teen in this situation. Jon Kent is a freaking robot! He should be wearing JHI's metal suit.
The honest and most believable variation of the "sell to me" 'roid storyline would be for Jon to start using. He only has about a million reasons to be pushed into doing so. But I'm sure it's more likely he's just going to investigate it or try and bring it to the attention of some authority, blah, blah, blah, did I mention he's eligible for sainthood? Not as interesting to me, nor remotely believable.
I also get tired of Lois always ragging on Sam - the parent who stuck around and did his best. I hope this episode finally puts an end to that bitchy behavior.
They're really going full on Nxivm with not just the nod to Allison Mack, but a Nancy Salzman lookalike too. Again, yikes, and I'm a more than a little surprised the CW is okay with this storyline given the obvious tie to Smallville.
So is JHI going to turn the barn into a bunker?
The SFX in this show are incredible. I'm surprised the CW can afford them.
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Finally starting to catch up on the last two episodes after being out of town for a couple of weeks. Read the spoilers though, so I'm actually up to date on the latest haps.
I thought this one was meh overall. Obviously what's going on with Clark is the most interesting storyline this season, without it the episode was kinda dull. And frankly the whole scene at bro's fortress was kinda really badly done, I thought. OTOH, it was actually good to see Tal-Rho again as he was the only intriguing part of the trip to fortress-land. And I love me his cell - a comfy chair surrounded by books? Sign me up, please.
So Tag is part of the Super Kid Squad - or whatever we're calling them - and that makes sense. For right now, it's probably a good thing the DOD has them as Superman is useless at this stage dealing with the interdimensional being that's screwing him up. I still feel like most of those kids are going to go rogue and become a bigger problem for the DOD at some point, but for right now, yeah, without them the things that need doing by Superman wouldn't get done.
As for everything else happening in kid-land - so Sarah kissed a girl at camp. Yeah, I guess that was more predictable and very CW. And given Jordan's reaction, sure, I can see why she was afraid to tell him. Ultimately I don't care about whether those two get back together - obviously they will - but I guess I have to suffer through it.
If I'm supposed to believe Nat is a mechanical wiz, I really need to see her do more than remove a car's air filter and put it back on. But it was girl-bonding time, and that was the whole point. And I was right, Nat has already supplanted Jon in Lois's heart - the whole Donna Reed breakfast scenario, and of course, Jon giving up his room was just too much. I mean, seriously, is there anything left for Jon to give up? The kid has nothing.
I wanted to smack Clark when he told annoying Lara - and she was annoying, I didn't blame Tal-Rho for being pissed - that Jor-El was proud of "both boys". Obviously that line was thrown in as a response to fans being pissed that Jon has been entirely cut out of the Kryptonian storyline (and still is!). But it's a BS line because Jor-El never met Jon, can't recall if he knew Jon even existed. And of course only Jordan gets to meet grandma too. At this point I'd totally believe a storyline where Clark and Lois finally admit Jon isn't their son and was instead some foundling they came across on the road after she gave birth to Clark's favorite son Jordan and decided to raise them together. Jon really doesn't feel like he's part of the Kent package.
Like with the whole stupid football/steroid story. Give Jon no-last-name something else to do!
I really had to side-eye the obvious nod to Allison Mack's cult problems in naming the cult leader "Ally" - that was more than a little shady, and frankly probably something the CW should stay away from considering Allison Mack will always be tied to one of their signature series.
Chrissy is getting uber annoying. I figured Geologist lady was going to turn out to be a bad guy, but she seems interesting.
And we all knew Lana was going to run for mayor. Why didn't they just do that from the jump?
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A decent start to the new season with the introduction of the new big bad (Doomsday?) - and the lesser bad in the form of MAGA Anderson and his superkid squad. Oh yeah, that won't end too badly. Ack.
I'm glad we already got to the source of Lois's bitchy behavior, but I certainly hope we're not going to spend the season seeing her devoting all her time to Natalie over her own actual children. I don't blame her for feeling nothing - she shouldn't. She isn't Natalie's mother, just like JHI isn't her squeeze on the side. I'd have been super annoyed if Lois had jumped immediately into mom mode with Natalie - and I'll be just as annoyed if it goes in that direction later. We'll see. I'll be more content with Natalie simply forging a friendship with the twins.
Oh Jordan, it seems Sarah found her a new man at camp. I said last season the relationship between she and Jordan progressed WAY TOO FAST. And now the writers have to back off. Of course, I'm cool with that because I still don't think those two have anything remotely resembling chemistry. In fact, Sarah just seems older and too mature for Jordan.
I'm not convinced yet that Lana isn't going to end up running for mayor after all. This dude she's working for seems weak and not really up for the job. I liked the talk between Clark and Lana, and I'm glad Lana and Kyle are still on relatively strong footing. And I like the relationship between Kyle and Sarah. Do they still have another daughter somewhere?
So what happened to Teagan - did the show fail to secure the actress for another season, or did they decide to go a different way? The "sex talk" scene with Clark was adorable. The one good thing for Jon in not being super-powered is no fear of killing someone he has sex with. So, go Jon go - sow those oats. And apparently Lois is all "do as I say, not as I did at 15 myself!" Yes, it seems Jon takes after you, Lois.
However, once again I'm REALLY not happy that they've reduced Jonathan to the football crap again, with the same old stupid storyline where he can't cut it anyway so what the hell is the point? I hope this opening episode isn't evidence that the showrunner and writers are still putting so little thought into Jonathan that this is all they can come up with or all they're willing to do with him. Pathetic lack of effort. Do better.
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19 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CX1X95cLG7s/
Jensen's Christmas post. If this isn't worth signing up for Instagram to see, then I don't know what is.
😍
(hint: this, in motion)
I don't know what's happening in that first clip, but I agree it does look like he lost a bet. And yet, the rest of us won BIG TIME! LOL!
With all the bad happening right now, this IG post makes me bigly happy. Thank you, Ackles family, for putting a smile on my face.
Happy Holidays!
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4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:
Let's hope that bit at the beginning is a misdirect - one of the good things about the show is Lois and Clark talking to each other like mature adults rather than keeping everything a secret for no good reason.
On the plus side, it looks like Jon is still going strong with his new girlfriend, although he probably wishes his door had a lock.
Jon and Tegan need to have their hook ups at the water tower. Risky to do it in the house.
Gotta admit, not liking this trailer mostly due to the changes in Lois. I despise the trope where someone - in this case Lois - is mad at the world, treats everyone like crap because she's mad at the world, but won't tell anyone why she's mad at the world. Please, just don't.
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I know there will be more cons than I'd like to see in 2022, but that's because they were all rescheduled from 2020 and 2021. After that, I'd honestly hope to see maybe one big one a year - like Creation does for Trek. One big thing in Vegas, for instance, and leave it at that. I know the cons are lucrative, and the second/third tier actors really count on them. But personally I want to see the Js, and Jensen especially, become simply too busy for the circuit.
Of course, I'd love to see Jensen engaging in fan events for projects like The Boys now anyway.
The "gotcha" questions and obvious set ups are pathetic. Those people need to start expending that amount of energy into their real lives for a change.
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9 hours ago, ahrtee said:
Dean on the ground cradled by Sam makes it about Sam. He's the one in charge of the scene and the main focus. Dean on his feet (and comforting Sam) makes it about him and how he's holding himself together, showing his strength. Sam is just reacting, not leading. Bravo, Jensen! I'm surprised they allowed it.
Yahtzee.
Nothing about Dabb's finale was supposed to be about Dean, and Jensen knew it. Even the original heaven scene wasn't about Dean at all either - it was about Dean bringing the princess into the Roadhouse to be fawned over by friends and family. Yuck. So good on him saying it's this way or no way WRT the barn scene. He had and deserved to take something for himself and his character out of that garbage dump of a send-off.
I have to admit I loved it when Jensen first mentioned the finale in his panel and got lots of groans and boos. He laughed it off and made a joke out of it, but I think it was a lot of validation for himself as well since he was the one "lone wolf", as 7kstar says, who didn't like it from the start. And both Misha and Jim Beaver have said before they all know it wasn't exactly a well-received finale.
Jensen continued to make it clear in his panel too that he doesn't see the finale as the end, and still hints of an eventual "fix-it" in the future. He's been very consistent about wanting to revisit the series a few years down the line.
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17 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:
Those panels were like a welcome breath of fresh air after months of being stuck inside. Jensen was so happy to be there and excited to talk about his new projects, as well as SPN and the finale.
Funny, it never really occured to me that *he* might have needed to talk about it as much as we did. I remain convinced he was never okay with it. I love that he insisted upon and fought for Dean dying on his feet. Too bad Singer didn't listen to him about anything else.
It makes me crazy that Jensen didn't stand up for himself more, though, because it's clear of the few times he did, he could affect change. There was no Supernatural without Dean Winchester.
Listening to how excited Jensen is talking about all his other projects - The Boys, Rust, and the animated DC/Batman 'verse - was everything I wanted to hear from him. And my god he was stunning on top of it all!
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2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:
He's also working with Travis Fimmel from Vikings. As a fan of that show its a pairing I never knew I needed.
Also the BTS people (not sure if the its writers or producers or both) are the ones that did The Trial of the Chicago 7. Which got both critical acclaim and won both golden globes and SAG awards.
I can't believe all this glory comes out when I'm out of town taking care of a friend in the hospital. Such good news! And I LOVE Travis Fimmel and Frances Fisher, so this is very exciting for me. The boy has had little downtime between the end of shooting The Boys and now this movie. But this is exactly the way I hoped his post-SPN career would go.
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Misha m&g from a recent Sunday con regarding the finale - pre & post COVID.
So the gist is that, pre-COVID, Misha had said in Las Vegas that he was supposed to shoot 4 more days after 15-18. That made it sound like he'd be in both 19 & 20, and COVID changed everything. But once again he reiterates here that Cas was never in Heaven, and he played Jimmy in the big party/concert scene, which we've heard before. That very well could take about 4 days to shoot because of all the cameos and the band being there, etc. Definitely a time-consuming set-up.
Whether or not you shipped Dean and Cas or just liked the friendship, or whatever, the fact is that it sounds like Dabb inserted one more F-U to his least favorite character by yanking away the hope that Dean would ever see Cas again. Canonically Cas was his best friend. Whether he shared the same feelings Cas had for him doesn't matter. 15-19 made it clear that Dean wanted Cas to still be alive when Luci tricked him with the phone call, and he'd certainly want to see him again in Heaven along with the rest of his family and friends. Putting Jimmy there was just one more cruel rebar to the back from Dabb, because Jimmy meant shit to Dean and Sam. He shouldn't have been there at all. That was cruelty for cruelty's sake at that point. Hardly the Heaven Dean deserved. I don't know if Jensen knew that part of it back in the summer when he was told to "take it or leave it" with the finale, but I can't imagine he'd have been thrilled with that stupid part either.
So obviously Cas was supposed to sacrifice himself for Dean in 18 as his exit stage right from the series. I don't mind that in theory because Dean is the one person in the universe Cas should sacrifice himself for - not Jack or Sam or anyone else. Just Dean. And I understand Misha's feelings that if Cas returned, it would not be a real sacrifice. But the sacrifice ends up being sad and worthless because all Cas did was buy Dean a couple of weeks. Dean was going to die anyway. Given the finale we got, I frankly think they should have died together in 18. It would have been better than Dean being literally stabbed in the back at the end.
So what the hell was 19 supposed to be about? My guess now is that it wasn't much different than we saw, except for the fact that Dabb and/or Singer had indicated way back when filming started that we'd see a lot of villains again. Maybe all he was referring to were the stupid Party City ghosts at the beginning of the season - except Showalter who directed that episode said there was originally supposed to be a big battle in 19 pre-COVID.
I don't know if the Empty ever comes into play or if it's just one more dropped ball/red herring that meant nothing at all. The Empty should be where all the villains we knew over the years would be - but would the Empty care? If the Empty sent charges from that realm, then frankly Cas should have been among them. But he wasn't supposed to be, obviously.
Perhaps it's just as likely Rowena was going to come through one more time by sending a lot of demons from Hell to help fight Chuckles, and that's where a bunch of random villains came into play. Then the flip side of that in 20 would be all the "heroes" in Dean's heaven - family and friends.
But when you think about it, the bottom line is that the Winchesters were never going to end up being the heroes of their own story. The set up was always going to be for Dabb's Mary Sue insert to become god and save the day all by his little annoying lonesome. The brothers would have been better off sticking around the bunker getting drunk. They weren't needed at all, especially if others were originally supposed to be there battling Chuckles.
Pre- or post-COVID, the finale was a limp noodle.
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15 hours ago, bethy said:
That's interesting. I didn't really perceive Mary as cold in WIAWSNB, but as more confused and maybe a little wary given what Dean's character was supposed to be in this fantasy (which is both a "grrrr" and an "oh, Dean" to me) combined with his behavior in that moment. At least, though, she was also concerned and somewhat tender toward him. I loved her hand to his cheek before she went up to bed. She made him a sandwich (and let him mow the yard!). In light of what came later, this version of Mary IS warm and loving. :) I agree, though, that she was never likely the mother Dean fantasized her to be.
In comparison to what comes after, sure, this is as warm as we'll ever see. But it's still a weirdly distant kind of warm, which annoyed me at the time. It's clearly what Dean wants, and yet even in his fantasy there is reticence on Mary's part. And fantasy Mary obviously prefers Sam. Of course, in Dean's estimation, both his parents would prefer Sam to himself - and that's incredibly sad. Of course, we were shown that preference in Home with ghost Mary who goes up to Sam and focuses solely on him and doesn't even acknowledge Dean's presence in the room until he says something.
Besides the writing, I honestly think the bigger problem with Mary is Sam Smith's performance of the character. She just doesn't exude warmth and motherly love, and maybe that's always been a choice on her part WRT the character. I got the impression from interviews and con performances at the time that she really liked playing Mary 2.0 and in her discussions with Drabb, indicated she didn't want to be "mom".
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1 hour ago, bethy said:
I'm rewatching What Is and What Should Never Be for the first time in a LONG time, and, man. What an incredible disappointment Mary turned out to be. Seeing her again in this episode just reminded me how much I hated who she actually was. Evidently.
You know, I remember not liking Mary in that episode - and that was Dean's own hallucination, which is why it was even weirder that hallucination Mary would be so cold to Dean. It's as if he always assumed had she lived Mary would not have liked him as an adult, for some reason, and that she'd always prefer Sam.
And as we discovered when she is resurrected, it turns out to be true. She has no affection, not really for both of her sons, but especially none at all for her eldest. I mean, she's awful from the moment she returns; but in season 14, which for this Dean fan is really bad (and makes it very clear why Jensen was ready to call it quits), we see a woman who not only says not one word about her son being taken over by Michael, nor acts like she cares at all, but who spends the rest of the season behaving even colder than she had before toward Dean. It's almost as if Dean is a stranger and not her son. I remember suspecting since Mary returned that we would finally find out that Dean really wasn't her son. It was the only thing that made sense.
And of course, the worst part is the one person who mourns her death the most - Dean - is the one and ONLY person we get no fake fond BS flashback memory for (using Dean as a pillow in the car doesn't count in comparison to every other character's flashback scene). Mary clearly prefers to think of Jack as her son instead of Dean, and she leaves the series without some statement as to why she apparently doesn't love or even like Dean. I mean, I know Dabb didn't like Dean, and Mary 2.0 was his OC; but I wanted a canon on screen explanation for her (at best) complete disinterest in Dean.
Looking back, of course, to when the series was so much better, even then we were given hints that Mary was probably never a good mother to Dean - at least, not the mother Dean fantasized her being. A very strange choice of characterization.
No, Mary wasn't a good or likable character for the most part. She was worse under Dabb, but there was always something lacking in the writing and execution for Mary Winchester.
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15 hours ago, tessathereaper said:
Thanks, that's really interesting. I'm glad the issues with TPTB of SPN didn't sour Mark on the whole experience. He was one of the better parts of the show and deserved better from the production and writers.
Dabb & Co. really f'd over Mark, as blatantly and boldly as they could do, and no one would fault him if he harbored nothing but ill will from his entire time on the show. So yeah, I'm glad he could look past the last two or three years of terrible writing/showrunning to still appreciate his time with the cast and crew (thanks for that insight, S Cook). Besides, where it concerns crap write-offs, he's in stellar company with Jensen Ackles.
I was so glad Creation canceled/was forced to cancel Orlando, because I live here too, and Florida is a shitshow right now. But honestly, my guess is the real reason they canceled is because Jensen isn't done filming in Toronto, and they really didn't want to go ahead without him.
I'm sure everyone was looking forward to the "party" aspect of the heaven scenes with Kansas playing a gig and a bunch of guest stars from the past showing up. I'm thinking that's what Beaver was referring to, and sure, that would have been cool. But this Dean fan would have still hated Dean's "take it or leave it" less than illustrious ending. So a concert wasn't going to be the salve that made it all better.
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I knew Natalie would show up eventually, but honestly I began to forget about her over the last 2 or 3 episodes. And now that she's here and the actress has already been made a regular, I suspect what this really means is that Lois's maternal attention will be split between her boys and Natalie - even though she's not this Nat's mom. Given that Jordan comes first in the Kent family, I fear this means Jon will be pushed aside just a little bit more than he already was in the first season. I hope not, but I do think they're going to play up the miscarriage angle, making Lois want to be a mother to this Nat. Can't say I'd like that very much.
The Edge storyline was weak and all over the place, IMO. Edge was only moderately interesting to me when there was mystery attached to him at the beginning of the season. But as soon as we knew who he was, which happened surprisingly fast, he instantly turned into a 2-dimensional cartoon villain caricature. If he's still around next season, we'll have to see if that changes to some extent.
The paper had to be saved to give Lois a platform, so Lois becoming co-owner with Chrissy was a fine result.
Is Sam Lane still going to be around post-retirement? Yes, I predict Supes will have problems with whoever is in charge of the DOD next season.
Kyle keeps his job as fire chief in Smallville, and Lana runs for mayor? Obviously she needs a job too.
The best thing about this show for me is the casting of Tyler and Elizabeth as Clark and Lois. They really make it work, they have a lot of chemistry between them. The storytelling needs tweaking, though. And if the kids are supposed to be important players in the Kents' lives, then we need writers who have enough interest to write for both brothers. They each need strong individual roles and stories, and that just didn't happen in season one WRT Jon. I'm not convinced it's going to happen next year either.
Having read the post-finale interview with the showrunner in TV Line, I came away with the impression he never intended to give Jon powers, nor does he have a lot of interest in him as a character in his own right. I'm annoyed that I care so much about what does or does not happen with this kid, but Jordan E. has done what he could with what little he was given to make him a very charming character. I just hope someone on the writing staff steps up and does better by him next year, especially if Jon is already going to be competing with Natalie for storyline attention as one of the non-powered kids.
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I would agree the show needs more of a tie, if even only passing references, to the other series in the 'verse.
It's probably past time Lana learn Clark's secret, and so too her family.
Give Jonathan Kent a real role, something of his own. We've had an entire season of taking away from Jon, but giving absolutely nothing in return. He's supposed to be one of the four leads, and thus far his only claim to fame is being the other one standing around with no powers and offering up stock platitudes of support to everyone else in his family.
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18 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:
Calling Jensen by his last name is something he does regularly
Though I think this started a few years ago. Before that he'd refer to him by his first name, or a shortened version of "Jen". Obviously the latter could get mixed up with his wife, "Gen", so I can understand dropping that nick. But referring to Jensen only by last name wasn't the way he used to address Jensen, and I find that change eye-opening. I'll leave it at that.
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The Winchesters Anticipation
in The Winchesters
Literally goes without saying. Jensen is pretty much the only person I would trust with any kind of sequel/prequel/SPN-adjacent project.
Congrats to Jensen, Danneel, Robbie, and the cast on the pick up!