normasm
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Posts posted by normasm
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Even my poor husband has seen some of these episodes 5 times, enough to know sorta which ones they are...
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Ditto, Old Dog!
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Nice review, JenJen, it's one of my all-time faves too!
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Actually, yes, I think there was a bit of snark in that line...
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Happy holidays!
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Yeah, Maeve talked to her parents. They bought the apartment in their name and set her up there. And yes, she was definitely terrified more than Lila, went farther into hiding than Cary, and there is no comparison to Cindee for this reaction, as Cindee had no choice from the point Malcolm got hold of her. (And yes, I'm not sure her "husband" was her original stalker, but i think he was).
Lila, once Michael was killed, pretty much folded into the BAU, into Reid, didn't realize Mags was a threat, and was clueless until it came up in her face.
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3 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:
However, I was comparing their responses as victims: Lila refused to stop living her life, Maeve went into hiding (although stayed in the area), Cindee decided to go into hiding away from home (hoping he wouldn't follow her), and Cary moved elsewhere, but didn't go into hiding, instead continued her life.
That's something that is interesting to me. The different responses by the victims, since the stalkers are relatively the same all of them were in love with the victim (aside from Maeve's). It's interesting how easy it is to fall into this situation, and yet not know what the right answer is in terms of response. Would it be better to run, to hide, or to continue living regardless.
It's interesting that regardless of it being a male or female stalker, the situation really shows a lot about the victim.
Yeah, I was saying that open, pretty, independent Lila was not as likely to be cowed into giving up her freedom for safety, while shy, intellectual, lonely Maeve would plausibly be terrified, as she was. Cary was scared enough to turn her entire life upside down, leave her job and her home, and skedaddle. I think that qualifies totally for hiding. Cindee was "captured" by another stalker, who threatened her family, and made sure she stayed threatened. She didn't succeed in hiding out.
In my view, only Lila, because she was young and had never really felt much threat but the relentless push for publicity using her image - only she didn't flee, because she didn't realize she was under threat until the BAU told her that people had been killed who might be "in her way."
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Interesting conversation. I think of Lila being a young, open, pretty girl who learned her looks could take her places (not in a vacuous or mindless quest for fame, but more like she wanted to get out and conquer the world and she knew she possessed certain equipment for the job). Maeve was older, had always been studious, quiet and shy, and thought her main value was her mind. She wasn't nearly as trusting of people as Lila, and Lila didn't trust very willingly. Lila was physically, then emotionally drawn to Reid. Maeve was psychologically, then emotionally drawn to Reid.
Their stalkers were different, as some have said here. Mags was an erotomanic stalker, fancied herself in love with Lila, and Lila in love with her. Diane stalked Maeve out of a thwarted sense of pride, envy. She herself said "I want what she has." She stole one boyfriend, and when she found Maeve had another, had to have him, too.
Cindee, by contrast, was stalked by a male, and was pulled into a relationship with a horribly dangerous person while on the run, if I remember that correctly. Her captor imprisoned her mind and her body, and never thought that she loved him, and certainly didn't love her. Cary (The Crossing) was also stalked by a male who was obsessed in the same way Mags was, he was convinced she loved him.
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HG, that actress is not your ex best friend. She's actually Robin Williams' daughter. Don't hang that stuff on her, OK?
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1 hour ago, JMO said:
Giving credit where credit is due. This was the first Reidless episode that held my interest. Not that I didn't miss him, because the subject matter virtually cried out for him, and they probably would have solved things at least a day earlier if he'd been there. But it turned out to be a good opportunity to focus on Tara, and Aisha did a great job with it.
Loved the guy in the cabin, but wondered why Emily didn't post at least one deputy outside, to avoid Alvez and Simmons accidentally shooting someone when they burst in.
Zelda Williams handled her role well, as the unsympathetic character you could love to hate, even if she hadn't turned out to be the unsub. I could feel my BP rising as I listened to her dismissal of reality as conspiracy. Sort of like reading Facebook.
Speaking of which....I applaud Breen's courage in tackling the idea of conspiracy theories, and especially his inclusion of such a wide array of examples. He risked some fans identifying with the conspiracists, so I wondered what would happen. Take a look at the Facebook comments to find out.
JM directed this one. It was the first time I've appreciated his work. I also liked the use of flashback scenes, and the inversion of the timeline of investigation.
Can't leave this post without commenting that the sheriff's hair was a character unto itself.
Once again, JMO, you saved me a lot of writing time! I really loved Aisha in this, and it's official for me, Tara is the best new character since Rossi. The directing was OK, although the dust moats floating around in the interrogation room was a bit annoying and distracting. Breen didn't disappoint with his script, and I really appreciate the rearrangement of the unfolding of the story: BAM! Right in the middle of things, and then backtrack, and then loop back again. The smartest person on the team - which, when Reid is gone, is Tara - was sure, then uncertain, then horribly frustrated, then regrouping with the help of the team (good use of Prentiss's team use, changing things up so that Tara can see clearly again), then going after the unsub again. All the team had real contributions, especially the women, and the shot at the end where each member smiles genuinely at Tara, was really nice, showing that sometimes it's a near thing, especially with a foe like this, and one person can't do it alone (not even Reid).
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Me too, smoker. More often and wisely.
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Good luck!
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I have not watched This Is Us yet. I'll try to put it on the agenda. It will be me only, tho. Mr. has low tolerance for family shows.
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21 minutes ago, JenJenBosco said:
I would really love to know what is the thought process in each of the team's minds whenever they've had to kill an unsub or whenever they've had to choose talking them down over killing the unsub.
I would also like to know how they decide the direness of needing to kill the unsub to save lives versus talking them down. That would be interesting. Also, agree that a discussion on what separates a justified killer from a serial one would be interesting.
Reid is the one who, several times, talked an unsub down rather than shoot it out. I also think he has perhaps killed more unsubs than anyone, although I may be off on that.
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14 minutes ago, JMO said:
It is an interesting discussion, in part because the circumstances for each team member have been so varied.
I think that, as people grow older and more experienced, there is a certain amount of practicality that creeps in, and idealism that seeps out. And I think we see that in the various circumstances where the team members have taken lives. Reid, for whatever reason, seems to have been given an unusually large dose of idealism, and has lost it only slowly, in increments. Is that because he has nothing to lose? No family waiting at home, no specific dreams for the future? Is that what has made him less likely to end a case by killing the unsub? Is Rossi more likely, because he's simply seen too much?
There are obvious reasons to kill an unsub, such as when a victim is in immediate danger. Reid's done that at least three times that I can think of----the LDSK, once to save Alex Blake, and in season 12, to save Morgan. So have the others, to save victims and colleagues. But that raises the question of how immediate is the danger? Would a moment of negotiation work? Does the agent care, or would it be just as easy to get everything over with right now? Are they actually trying to negotiate, or just to distract, to get the better shot?
Do they kill for revenge? For example, did Rossi draw out Gideon's killer for the purpose of shooting him as a way of avenging the death of his old friend? Or was he being practical, knowing that the guy had already been killing for decades? Was it because Rossi had seen the judicial and penal systems fail too often?
Does it happen in the height of emotion, a la Hotch vs. Foyet? Was that a practical killing, taking out Foyet because he'd already shown an ability to escape? Was it to eradicate the threat to Jack? Or was Hotch just insanely, and understandably, angry? Does that make it murder? Was Hotch impaired, in the moment? Was JJ, in her moment? Elle?
I liked that we saw some fallout for Elle, after her shooting of the rapist. I wish we'd see more. Some uncertainty about the appropriateness of the shooting, some discussion of how else it could have been handled. Maybe even some uncertainty, after the fact, of whether they'd gotten the right person. Even some discussion about what separates a 'justified' killer from a serial one. For me, it would inject new life into the series.
Lots of good stuff in your post, as usual, JMO. I think Reid always saw himself as a knight, who serves a moral ideal, and tries not to give in to irrational emotion, but rather, serve the Greater Good. His self-image was wrecked last season, and therefore, it makes sense that he would experience a breakdown of that certainty he formerly felt. Hotch always approached from the POV of law enforcement, of restoring order, until all order was lost and he killed a begging Foyet. I think Morgan approached from a protector stance, trying to protect those who were victimized, and stop the monster from continuing, but (usually) not acting out of revenge (I say usually, because he gave a beat-down to several people who preyed on kids, etc.) Gideon, of course, felt a righteous mission to seek why someone is a monster, and try to restore the natural balance of good and evil.
So, yeah, Elle killed because she knew the guy would get away with the rapes otherwise. Vigilantism. Rossi killed Gideon's murderer to punish, and possibly out of a certainty that he would not see true justice. Revenge. Hotch was terrified in his moment, he didn't know if Jack had survived, and if he had and Foyet had gotten up again, he would have tried to kill him. They tried to make the excuse that JJ was in the throes of PTSD, but i guess I didn't buy that she would kill someone so coldly.
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35 minutes ago, ReidFan said:
Tabula Rasa?
Riff that was the "other" that JMO had just spoken about.
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19 minutes ago, smoker said:
episode 200
And I can't remember the forever people, I remember the chase against orders, but not the end of the episode.Sorry, seasons 8, 9 and some of 11 are a bit blurry.
smoker, I think you mean the Forever People, and, yes, I think you're right that JJ just up and shot the guy without assessing the danger of the gas exploding and possibly killing her and the victim. Just up and shot him.
I'm not remembering Morgan doing anything. But I do recall just this current season, a PTSD-wracked Reid saying he was going to kill Mr. Scratch, no hesitation. Emily asked him to hang back with her, so, we'll never know if he would have.
I know we're off topic here, but this is a fascinating conversation.
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Yeah the only other "trial" episode i can think of is The Edge of Winter, where Morgan was trying to see if the victim/unsub was stable enough to testify, and she wasn't. That was well-written and fascinating. He was left knowing at least the poor girl was where she needed to be, but her life was completely screwed.
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4 minutes ago, JenJenBosco said:
This was the first time the subject was brought up, but I do wonder if any of the characters consider it. We know that poor Elle did, we know that Hotch gave in once because of killing the Reaper. Has anyone else? I do wonder about the other characters, especially Spencer, because around his 30th birthday he does question why he's on the team, I wonder if this question came up, too.
I think you're right about Hotch, this is the first time he mentioned it (wondering about it) to Gideon, who's prompt reply about not letting the unsubs get into his head, which I think would be different than if the conversation had been with Rossi, who, as you stated, believes that Evil needs to be stopped at all costs...
Overall, I really liked this episode, glad you do, too.
Rossi, we are lead to think, took the law into his hands with Gideon's killer.
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8 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:
A Real Rain
I like this episode. It brings up an issue that some people struggle with. They want to believe in the system, but it isn’t infallible. There are failures. Some people get away with it, while some people get punished unfairly. I found it interesting that some people believed that he shouldn’t be caught since he was going after bad people, and it made sense that Hotch felt he had to kill the unsub.
I feel like Hotch was questioning that it might be necessary, also one of the guys mentioned to Reid that he’d give him six years before he questions whether or not the guy was doing the right thing. Both of these things are interesting to me.
Do you think any member of the team ever think that?
I loved the team scenes, the roundtable, the plane scene, the dinner scene. It was all really great. Interesting that Gideon, like Rossi later on, shrugs and says, “What’s vacation time?” I liked that JJ was so nice to Reid, offering to show him around, and helping during the dinner. I liked their friendship here.
I like that Reid mentions something from before he’s born, and Gideon says, “You weren’t even born.”
Reid shrugs, “I read a lot.”
I thought Elle bringing up how many rapists walked during her sex crime days, and then she ends up killing a rapist…is very interesting. As if the idea of vigilantism was already a thought in her mind…well possibly.
It was kind of a sad ending. The song at the end, made it sadder.
Overall, it was a very thought provoking episode.
Up Next: Somebody’s Watching…which I love because of Spencer.
A Real Rain is one of my favorites too. I always loved that comment about when Spencer was 30, he would change his mind. I think he always thought, at least up until Haley was killed, that every unsub deserved to have a fair trial be treated with human compassion. The flip side of that is Rossi, who believed Evil needed to be stopped.
I, too, loved the team interaction, the way the profile is given and the crime reconstructed. And, yes, the foreshadowing of Elle's eventual meltdown was very sad.
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I fell asleep during the last act/epilogue. The only positive thing I can think of to say is, they actually had stuff for everyone to say and do without 8 people finishing each other's sentences, etc. It took furloughing 2 agents to get to that, but, well...
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The show is about making sense as best we can of criminals. (Her) crimes do make sense, and yes, they have explored the same family dynamic/reasoning before. Because it happens fairly often. Killers who just kill for jollies are usually mentally aberrant, not particularly intelligent, and/or, possibly mentally damaged. They do not last very long, and aren't terribly hard to profile, even for someone like me.
David Berkowitz is the closest I can come to this dumbass person who seemingly has no real reason to kill except to create chaos. All the other serial and thrill and mass killers I can think of had a twisted something in their heads that they felt gave them a purpose, a reason to kill. So while it might be creepy to have a killer who is just killing for the funsies, those people devolve extremely quickly, and aren't hard to find, as a rule. That is, if we're sort of sticking to reality, and not trying to make this show a teen horror flick of the 80s.
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I also liked the giving of the profile being more organic, less of a stage play where each profiler intones their interchangeable lines. Felt more real. Good job, Director.
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Another thing I noticed after watching the ep again, is that I liked the direction, especially of the scene where the first victim is going through her cognitive interview and describing what happened to her as it is shown happening to the latest victim. This was nicely intercut and very effective.
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Season 13 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation
in Criminal Minds
Need moar fanfic, JMO....