Cristofle

Yep. So since he would not have gotten the ability to ride a dragon from his father's blood (so far as he knows, believing Ned to be his father), it then must be his mother's blood in his mind (yes, it's actually the reverse, lol, but he doesn't that yet). Jon has spent his whole life wondering who his mother is and this would have been a stunning, significant clue in Jon's mind. And yet....nothing. I'd say I'll get over it eventually, but I won't.

Jon didn't seem to associate it with anything that I saw. I love Jon. Totally #TeamStark. But I just didn't see any awareness on his part that this was an extraordinary moment that highlighted something about his mother. I think Rhaegal did nudge him like "Are you ever going to notice me dad???!!" but it should have been a much bigger moment, not comedic relief. It's AS a Jon fan that I'm mad, lol. He was robbed of so much in the final season, but that was particularly egregious.

Daemon should have encouraged Rhaena to take Vhagar before they ever came back to Westeros, to be sure. Which I think he knows now from the expression on his face when he saw her flying. That was definitely his bad, lol. I'd say he was more concerned about his grieving children, except I haven't seen that side of him onscreen, so eh.

I'm sure this will change, but to some extent, the child of Alicent's I kind of feel sorriest for in this episode is Aegon. No one likes this kid, lol. Otto was smacking him around, Alicent slapped him in front of everyone and called him a fool (what happened to Aegon was most certainly not his fault - he's probably less to blame than anyone), Aemond blamed him for the whole "bastard" talk, and Viserys was practically spitting venom at him. Also, I can't blame him for not wanting to marry his 'can't seem to hold a conversation with anyone but a creepy crawly' sister. Sure, Aegon is rude and careless, but in a way that sort of makes sense.

True re: Nettles. But yeah, it's the RANDOMNESS of Jon and Rhaegal in the show that kills me. There is NO reason he'd ever think he has a spec of Valyrian blood (in the books, he is seemingly Ned's mini-me - of course, actually Lyanna's, but no one knows yet - which bothers Catelyn), and he would be aware that those with Valyrian blood are the dragon riders. And I would think Dany would also be aware of that - Viserys raised her to believe in how exceptional Targaryens are and always have been in every way. She's certainly never seen either of her other dragons being ridden by anyone else, let alone a non-Targaryen. I just think that moment, at least in the books, would be shocking to many, if and when Jon claims Rhaegal. It should be a huge thing, not "Hey, what might be fun to do today?" Realistically, Dany would be more likely to offer Jon ride with her and Drogon if she wanted to take him on a dragon ride. So I think Sea Smoke will be a very interesting chance for the writers of HOTD to show how seriously they intend to take this bond. Will they have Laenor die offscreen? Will Laenor return disguised as someone else? Will they collapse characters and give Addam, or whoever is in his place, another dragon while Sea Smoke disappears, possibly to rejoin Laenor in a far-away land? Or will someone randomly be able to claim Sea Smoke with no explanation? I could come to regret this, lol, but so far I'm glad they've opened this chance to show their hand to some extent.

I thought they did, especially with Daemon killing the man who was to be put in Laenor's place and Rhaenyra talking about how the sea is an escape, and she does love Laenor, and Daemon responding with "set him free". Once they showed Laenor alive, I thought it was very clear it was a planned ruse between all four of them. Also, Daemon and Rhaenyra talk about what the realm will "think" her capable of - because she has no intention of actually having Laenor killed, but she knows the advantage of the realm possibly believing it.

Also a failing in the show from very early on - I'm not sure why they did so poorly with the animals tbh, other than they didn't want to portray it onscreen. The Starks are all seemingly capable of warging into their wolves, not just Bran. Robb and Grey Wolf are so bonded, Robb says his name right as he dies. Jon too - he says "Ghost" as he fades out/maybe dies in his last current chapter in he books. I do think it's written as somewhat similar and a potential thing that sets Jon apart - he is likely to be bonded to both a direwolf and a dragon. And yet I still can't quite believe they were as sloppy as they were with how Jon rode Rhaegal, lol. Just a fun date! Never over it. Especially since we'll all die of old age before the books ever show what was actually supposed to happen. So far this show has been better at highlighting the importance of the bond between dragon and human - Sea Smoke will be an interesting way to see if they'll keep it up.

I mean, I do think Rhaenyra and certainly Daemon are more...morally ambiguous, to say the least, than most of the Starks especially early on. If the Starks were ever ruthless (Arya is obviously a major example) they were pretty seriously goaded into it by horrific crimes committed against them by the Lannisters. Ned just wanted to be left alone in the North - nothing that happened was of his choosing or of any particular desire on his part for power. Jon actively rejects the ultimate power right until the end, and his darkest act was still in large part a desire to protect his sisters after Tyrion reminded him Dany may well kill them. Also, he'd just watched Dany commit mass genocide and show no remorse even when challenged by him. Rhaenyra clearly IS driven at least in part by a desire for power, as is Daemon, and Daemon has shown to be utterly ruthless in getting what he wants. That said, obviously this is predominantly Rhaenyra's show so I think her POV will be prized above others.

Well, sure. I think that's the point of the show - these two clashing groups will fight and fight and fight, and each will win battles and each will suffer losses. I think Aemond was more responsible for this particular loss than others will be in the future, but undoubtedly one or more of the four cousins will end up on the losing side sooner or later, and maybe it'll be their own arrogance and maybe it won't. Probably both. Vhagar is a powerful ally (hence Daemon's resigned 'Guess I should have seen that coming' expression as he saw her flying) but undoubtedly the blacks have their own. Almost certainly, a bunch of them will regret ending up on Daemon's bad side too.

I'm not really talking about the egg in the cradle. It's obvious with Laena and Vhagar that it's not necessary to bond a human and a dragon. But Valyrian blood is crucial. No one who doesn't have the blood of old Valyria has ever been the primary/solo dragon rider. Starks did not ride dragons. People without Valyrian blood would attempt to claim dragons, but it usually ended very badly. Jon would have been highly aware of this, as he was known to be fond of Targaryen lore, and I would think Dany would be too after all the years with Viserys (I can't remember if either voiced this awareness, to be fair - it's been too long since I've done a reread of the series in full). It was widely known that a Stark could not simply hop on a dragon for a fun ride. Either Dany would never have suggested Jon ride Rhaegal on such a lark, or Jon would never have agreed, but probably both. I do believe GRRM intends for Jon to claim Rhaegal, but on the .0000000000005% chance he finishes the book, I'd put down $$$ that it doesn't happen like it did in the show, lol.

They went for a kill shot after he made it clear he was going to kill them. "Come at me again and I'll feed you to my dragon." "You will die screaming in flames like your father did." He took it from a fist fight to a deadly fight first. Aemond fucked around and found out. His ego, so high after riding Vhagar, would not allow him to see he did not have the upper hand and couldn't afford to act like he did. And actually, I think he knows that now, hence the "fair exchange".

They didn't knowingly search him out either - they wanted to find out who'd taken Vhagar. Aemond could have responded more calmly to Rhaena, a grieving child who obviously would be deeply upset that this stranger took her mother's dragon, instead of responding by insulting her and saying she should ride a pig (Rhaena obviously had zero role in the original prank, so it's not like he needed to bring her into it). Aemond was arrogant in that confrontation from start to finish (finish being when he lost the eye). He wasn't acting like someone who was aware of the danger in fighting four on one - he was tossing out insults left and right and threatening to feed them to his dragon. He also had no awareness that just because he doesn't love his siblings and cousins doesn't mean no one does - I think he genuinely did not expect Jace to step in and defend Baela. He made a dangerous error in judgment in not RECOGNIZING he was one against four, four children who would absolutely be loyal to each other and fight against him as one, and that he did not have the upper hand in that moment tjust because he'd ridden Vhagar, and he paid for it.

It's not that it's surprising that Jon was able to ride Rhaegal. I think all book readers assume that Jon will eventually claim Rhaegal, the dragon named for his birth father. Jon is a Targaryen. But he doesn't know that and Dany doesn't know that when he rides him, so it would have been shocking that Rhaegal would allow it given that no one knows Jon has Targaryen blood in that moment. It would not have been something Dany suggested for funsies, and the show skipped straight over that. Also, Jon has no known reaction to Rhaegal dying, despite the fierce bond between dragon and rider. I'm not at all surprised that Jon claimed Rhaegal, just irritated at the sloppy writing about it, lol. Hopefully this show will not be nearly so sloppy about the connection between dragons and their riders.

It's still different for Laenor to openly abandon them. Viserys just ordered that anyone who repeat this claim should have their tongues cut out. Laenor has said he loves these children - why would he openly make their lives worse by making it clear he'd up and abandoned them, instead of making it look like he'd died some tragic and random death? Also, this completely frees him. He can truly be whoever or whatever he wants to be. There's simply no indication he's attached enough to his title to want to keep it at all costs, even as he leaves his entire world behind.

This x100. This is one Westerosi custom I absolutely refuse to go along with, lol. Children are not responsible for the failings of their parents. I wonder if there's a little echo of Catelyn (well, foreshadowing in a way) with Rhaenys. Ned correctly never trusted Catelyn enough to tell her the truth about Jon (arguably the smartest thing Ned ever did, lol). Catelyn was too rigid in her beliefs, too focused on blood. Apparently Rhaenys is too, so Laenor would not have trusted her enough to loop her in on this secret.

Also possible. Addam wouldn't have been cast yet, I wouldn't think, so we can't say for sure they intend to bring him on. Although that would be very messy if Laenor ever openly returned, lol. Daemon and Rhaenyra's trueborn children are crucial to the continuing of the Targaryen line.

I think it's been put that the dragon will not "allow" anyone else to mount it solo while the dragon rider still lives, because the dragons are always the dominant force, but yes, I don't think there's been a case of a dragon allowing someone else to ride it while their rider is alive. So either they're going to claim Sea Smoke somehow cut ties with Laenor because he faked his death (I find it hard to believe Sea Smoke will be fooled, given the otherworldly connection between dragons and riders) or Laenor will die offscreen. Of course, the OG series had Jon ride Rhaegal like it was no big deal, so who knows.

I don't think he would have considered this a real option (to just go East) - he would have had no life to return to anyway if he'd openly abandoned his wife and the children he claimed so he could run off with another man. Also, doing that would have made the boys even more vulnerable, because he'd essentially openly be saying they weren't his. Frankly, there's no indication he's attached enough to Rhaenys to do all of that just so she'd know he was alive. Sea Smoke IS currently a plothole I hope they address. Dragons and humans have a kind of otherworldly connection - I imagine it is hard to simply leave one behind, but to be fair, I don't know if anyone has tried.

Honestly? Yes. Rhaenyra is perhaps the one person EVER in his life to look straight at him and say she accepts him and respects him as he is. His mother won't even look at the children he openly loves, and she's trying to disinherit Luce in the name of Laena's children. Laenor has been shown consistently to be uncomfortable, unhappy, and distressed with the role he is expected to play, and he avoids it at every turn. I think he would have jumped at the chance to flee from it. I don't think he went off poor, Daemon probably provided more gold than what he initially handed to Qarl. But would he go somewhere where none of this matters, where he can change his name and never be the person with this burden again? 100%. Rhaenys knows what he is - that doesn't mean she accepts it. Hence her treatment of the boys. Laenor wanted to be set free. Rhaenyra helped him completely free himself from the world he didn't fit into, which included his mother.

An adult threatening - well, and actively trying - to cut out a child's eye is always horrifically cruel, no matter what happened to Aemond. Hence literally everyone around her was horrified, even those who might otherwise be sympathetic to her. The adults in the room are ultimately responsible for what happened with the children, Alicent as much as anyone else. She has clearly actively pushed her resentment and rage onto Aemond, which led to him feeling superior enough to taunt four other children, and he learned the hard way he wasn't THAT superior. She is not nearly the only adult responsible, most adults there had a role to play, but she is no more blameless than anyone else and she's more responsible than some. Responding the way she did was utterly depraved.

Honestly, I didn't feel as sorry for Rhaenys in the end as I might have if she hadn't seemingly so completely shunned Jace and Luce. She wouldn't even look at them as far as I could tell. I know the Westerosi lore about bastards, but it's a viewpoint I so thoroughly cannot sympathize with that I always hold it against the characters who go along with it (Catelyn, Alicent, now Rhaenys). She had to have at least suspected that Laenor was the primary issue in why Rhaenyra and Laenor had no natural children. She knows what he is. Laenor by all accounts loved the boys and accepted them as his own. That she is so obsessed with bloodlines that she can't even give a kind LOOK to them is part of the exact toxicity that Laenor so desperately wanted to escape. SHE was very much part of what he was fleeing from, even if it wasn't obvious to me until this episode. She is correct that Corlys is ambitious, but he seems to also be genuinely fond of the boys. He was visibly impacted by Luce not wanting his chair since "everyone would be dead" and HE immediately moved to protect him while Rhaenys only cared about the girls, who frankly were in no physical danger that I could see. By all means, check on them, they're scared and traumatized and Baela was struck by Aemond (Daemon also could have cared a little more about that, as I said above, heh), but I never saw any indication she was concerned about the boys at all even when Alicent was demanding one of their eyes. Rhaenys has a worldview Laenor deserved to escape from as much as anyone else around him.

To be fair, Dany, Rhaegar, and Viserys had parents who were also siblings. LOL. The Targaryens will keep marrying each other for another 150+ years.

Agreed. That's been weird to me, that none of her children take after her when you'd think her line would be much stronger. At least one of her children should look like her, lol. The Stark line is much stronger than the Targaryen line, but still, the Tully line won out with several of Ned and Cat's children.

The Targaryen line is weak, because of centuries of incest. Which leads to a cycle of them CONTINUING their incestuous ways to "keep the bloodline pure". That's why Jon looks every inch a Stark even though his father was Rhaegar, because the Stark line is so much stronger. I guess the Velaryan line is stronger too. That said, it was kind of interesting that Daemon seemed somewhat disinterested that his daughters had been insulted and attacked by Aemond. He was just chilling in the doorway enjoying himself until near the end, and what caused him to finally react was RHAENYRA in danger. And even when he finally gets to Rhaenyra, in the wide above shot, we can see him put his arm around Luke. He doesn't go to his daughters.

Very true. I think for a long time, Alicent believed herself more capable of manipulating Viserys than she actually is. She did successfully get him to marry her even though she was a nonsensical match on its face, but that was pretty much where it ended. I said a couple episodes ago, Alicent severely overestimated the influence she had over Viserys when Otto got fired - she thought he was listening to her, but he wasn't. He knew full well Rhaenyra was no longer a virgin. He chose for her to remain his heir anyway. Viserys is weak. He is more than capable of being manipulated. But he is not fully blind to what's going on around him - he realized years ago that Alicent had manipualted him at Otto's bidding and I think she lost any trust he had in her from that moment on. Of course, we can see he can still be pushed over - it most certainly wasn't his idea to reinstall Otto - but Alicent will never win where Rhaenyra is concerned. Viserys will choose Rhaenyra over Alicent and their children every single time. And when he looked dead at her when he warned everyone never to speak of Jace and Luke being bastards again, I think she realized once and for all she has no power in this most important of situations. Viserys will never, ever choose Aegon as heir. He will never trust her more than Rhaenyra. He will never love her OR love his children with her as much as he loves Rhaenyra.